Little Big Mining Log - Miners Tool (OCR)

[Legion]

Can you explain what is the "desktop compostion thingy" you mention maybe there is a easy way around it ... your description however is very unclear?

what kind of calculations would you like the tool to perform ?

it's the stuff that makes the desktop able to be transparent etc, and read above also.

As for the calculations, lets say a run has 10 ore claims with various sizes. The program then takes those deposit sizes and the info about them on entropedia and get the average value one such deposit have. For example lets say we have a size that is (just an example) small, the ped value of such a deposit is between 1-5 ped so the program takes the average value of that ie 2.5 and add the rest of the other claims to that so you get an average value of how the run went. Might be unecesary to do but i would find it a nice and simple and fast way to measure a run.

 

[Kubroz]

it's the stuff that makes the desktop able to be transparent etc, and read above also.

As for the calculations, lets say a run has 10 ore claims with various sizes. The program then takes those deposit sizes and the info about them on entropedia and get the average value one such deposit have. For example lets say we have a size that is (just an example) small, the ped value of such a deposit is between 1-5 ped so the program takes the average value of that ie 2.5 and add the rest of the other claims to that so you get an average value of how the run went. Might be unecesary to do but i would find it a nice and simple and fast way to measure a run.

Each coin has heads and tails - you old about the heads, so it's my job to point at the tail

Such an average return may not be accurate, especially for amped runs. Cant tell you the statistics on each amp, but from what I've noticed 90% of XIIs on oa103 are low end (around 36-38 ped tt) and 90% of XIIs on oa104 are high ends (around 46-49 ped tt), so I'm almost certain that for some amps the average value will be above the average while on other amps it'll be below average. Another thing is that the mu on various resources also make a big difference, so if tool showed the average tt return of the run, it could cause more confusion than help in the end.

 

[Legion]

Each coin has heads and tails - you old about the heads, so it's my job to point at the tail

Such an average return may not be accurate, especially for amped runs. Cant tell you the statistics on each amp, but from what I've noticed 90% of XIIs on oa103 are low end (around 36-38 ped tt) and 90% of XIIs on oa104 are high ends (around 46-49 ped tt), so I'm almost certain that for some amps the average value will be above the average while on other amps it'll be below average. Another thing is that the mu on various resources also make a big difference, so if tool showed the average tt return of the run, it could cause more confusion than help in the end.

well true i guess, however the markup i think your wrong about. Yes sure it does have an impact on the final result, but to determine if the run was good or not you should really just pay attention to the tt and not the markup. Not sure i explain good enough but i hope you understand what i'm getting at.

And as for the averages i wanted, it could just measure amount of hits of different sizes, ie this run you got 10 small, 15, medium yadda yadda... then the next run you get 5 small and 10 medium yadda yadda this way you could probably work out when an area is likely to be better.

 

[Kubroz]

well true i guess, however the markup i think your wrong about. Yes sure it does have an impact on the final result, but to determine if the run was good or not you should really just pay attention to the tt and not the markup. Not sure i explain good enough but i hope you understand what i'm getting at.

And as for the averages i wanted, it could just measure amount of hits of different sizes, ie this run you got 10 small, 15, medium yadda yadda... then the next run you get 5 small and 10 medium yadda yadda this way you could probably work out when an area is likely to be better.

Yes, for me the info like: 10 small, 15 medium, etc. would be more accurate than if tool took the average value of small, medium, etc. claim and multiplied it by number of finds to show the average return.

And about markup - usually it changes everything Especially if you mine enmatters ty to compare the mu for stuff like oil, melchi on one hand and lumis, energized on the other hand. 70% tt return on lumis is better than 100% return on oil

 

[Legion]

And about markup - usually it changes everything Especially if you mine enmatters ty to compare the mu for stuff like oil, melchi on one hand and lumis, energized on the other hand. 70% tt return on lumis is better than 100% return on oil

yes ofcourse, however i'm more interested in seeing when the area is good so i can go there when it's good, and markup could skew this

 

[Ido]

Taken from msdn.microsoft.com:


Quote:
The desktop composition feature, introduced in Windows Vista, fundamentally changes the way applications display pixels on the screen. When desktop composition is enabled, individual windows no longer draw directly to the screen or primary display device as they did in previous versions of Windows. Instead, their drawing is redirected to off-screen surfaces in video memory, which are then rendered into a desktop image and presented on the display.

Desktop composition is performed by the Desktop Window Manager (DWM). Through desktop composition, DWM enables visual effects on the desktop as well as various features such as glass window frames, 3-D window transition animations, Windows Flip and Windows Flip3D, and high resolution support.

So basically we are talking about running windows with aero...

I personaly am running win 7 with areo enabled transparency and such i have a DWM.EXE process runing in my process list... and i NEVER expirienced probelms taking a screenshot of either the full screen or single window due to this.

PrtScr button on your keyboard will make window draw the screen content to your clipboard and Alt+PrtScr will make windows draw the content of just that 1 window. Then you can use Ctrl+V to paste it into paint. If you are using some third party application for screenshot that does not work with Areo then i reccomend using simple PrtScr _ Ctrl+V method which is a basic windows feature from way back...

Ido

 

[jdegre]

So basically we are talking about running windows with aero...

I personaly am running win 7 with areo enabled transparency and such i have a DWM.EXE process runing in my process list... and i NEVER expirienced probelms taking a screenshot of either the full screen or single window due to this.

PrtScr button on your keyboard will make window draw the screen content to your clipboard and Alt+PrtScr will make windows draw the content of just that 1 window. Then you can use Ctrl+V to paste it into paint. If you are using some third party application for screenshot that does not work with Areo then i reccomend using simple PrtScr _ Ctrl+V method which is a basic windows feature from way back...

Ido

the problem is full screen mode. in win7 and vista, there are many graphic setups where PrtScrn simply does not work. it produces a black screen, instead. disabling aero seems to fix this, but not sure if it solves it in 100% of cases. i've been getting thousands of these reports for the skill scanner app.

 

[Ido]

the problem is full screen mode. in win7 and vista, there are many graphic setups where PrtScrn simply does not work. it produces a black screen, instead. disabling aero seems to fix this, but not sure if it solves it in 100% of cases. i've been getting thousands of these reports for the skill scanner app.

Thats a very valid point thx for the info Jdegre... did you have any reported cases when it dosent work with windowed mode?

I might have to code my way around PrtScr clipboard grabing when users are using Full Screen mode.

Stay tuned results are on their way

 

[jdegre]

Thats a very valid point thx for the info Jdegre... did you have any reported cases when it dosent work with windowed mode?

I might have to code my way around PrtScr clipboard grabing when users are using Full Screen mode.

Stay tuned results are on their way

in window mode, i think it always work.

my advice for the full screen mode it to disable aero; take this as a limitation to live with, and that's it. it's not your app's fault, it's windows, if you want to see it like that

there are ways to disable aero (turn-off desktop composition) only for a given application (EU), and only while this application is running, so the hassle for the user is not too big.

 

[Timbo Witters]

Hey,
I'm already testing this out and it seems that it is working fine so far

But I got a suggestion for a great future for you program.
Most of the miners like to keep track of there result for each mining run including markup. This isn't always that easy because you don't sell the ores directly after your run. To solve this I suggest the following system.
It will work like this:

Step 1:
You hit a button new run and put in all the different kind of finder/amps/#bombs ...
You total cost of the run will be calculated

Step 2:
Go get a screen to put in all your different ores. The program will look up the ore prices automatically on peacution.com. This price won't be the actual selling price but just an estimated price.

Step 3:
You hit a button to close you list of ores. The program now puts all the ores in your virtual storage in the program.
You can also see the estimate of the profit or loss during your last run.

Step 4:
We now came to a point where we did around 5 runs and have a good amount of ores to put them on auction.
For example we now will sell 100TT of Belkar on auction.
We go to our virtual storage and see we have 110TT of belkar.
Then we click a button sell.

Step 5:
Now are we in the selling menu. Here we can select the ore we want to sell.
We can select if it is a auction sale or just a regular sale.
If it is a auction sale we can put in our values:
- Kind of ore
- Auction fee
- SB/BO
Then just hit confirm and we made our virtual auction in the game.

Step 6:
Our Belkar ingot has been sold for 120% at auction. Now we go to the program go to our virtual auction and het the button 'buyout'. The program now deletes the 100 TT Belkar from our virtual storage but also goes back to our runs.
Here will it see in run 1 we had 50ped TT belkar but the estimation of the price was just 115% so it will be corrected in the calculation.
From run 2-4 we didn't find any belkar. But in run 5 we had 60 ped of TT value. Now the program will make the correction of the price of the ore for 50 of the 60 ped because the 10 ped is still in our storage (with the estimation %).

END...

This will be extremely handy for everyone. And it is possible to make this a extra future or even a new program.
Maybe not something for the first releace of the program but something to keep in mind for later updates maybe

- Timbo

 

[Ido]

in window mode, i think it always work.

my advice for the full screen mode it to disable aero; take this as a limitation to live with, and that's it. it's not your app's fault, it's windows, if you want to see it like that

there are ways to disable aero (turn-off desktop composition) only for a given application (EU), and only while this application is running, so the hassle for the user is not too big.

Indeed its possible to disable areo-when running a single application and when that application shuts down areo is restored (for the whole system) however i belive i know a solution around this so that disabling are will not be necessary

I find it annoying for all my windows to flash and loose their transparent boarders when i luch the application ... so i feel other people might also.. therefore im implementing a workaround

 

[Legion]

hmm seems my printscreening works again.. wierd

 

[Ido]

Hey,
I'm already testing this out and it seems that it is working fine so far

But I got a suggestion for a great future for you program.
Most of the miners like to keep track of there result for each mining run including markup. This isn't always that easy because you don't sell the ores directly after your run. To solve this I suggest the following system.
It will work like this:

Step 1:
You hit a button new run and put in all the different kind of finder/amps/#bombs ...
You total cost of the run will be calculated

Step 2:
Go get a screen to put in all your different ores. The program will look up the ore prices automatically on peacution.com. This price won't be the actual selling price but just an estimated price.

Step 3:
You hit a button to close you list of ores. The program now puts all the ores in your virtual storage in the program.
You can also see the estimate of the profit or loss during your last run.

Step 4:
We now came to a point where we did around 5 runs and have a good amount of ores to put them on auction.
For example we now will sell 100TT of Belkar on auction.
We go to our virtual storage and see we have 110TT of belkar.
Then we click a button sell.

Step 5:
Now are we in the selling menu. Here we can select the ore we want to sell.
We can select if it is a auction sale or just a regular sale.
If it is a auction sale we can put in our values:
- Kind of ore
- Auction fee
- SB/BO
Then just hit confirm and we made our virtual auction in the game.

Step 6:
Our Belkar ingot has been sold for 120% at auction. Now we go to the program go to our virtual auction and het the button 'buyout'. The program now deletes the 100 TT Belkar from our virtual storage but also goes back to our runs.
Here will it see in run 1 we had 50ped TT belkar but the estimation of the price was just 115% so it will be corrected in the calculation.
From run 2-4 we didn't find any belkar. But in run 5 we had 60 ped of TT value. Now the program will make the correction of the price of the ore for 50 of the 60 ped because the 10 ped is still in our storage (with the estimation %).

END...

This will be extremely handy for everyone. And it is possible to make this a extra future or even a new program.
Maybe not something for the first releace of the program but something to keep in mind for later updates maybe

- Timbo

Hi Timbo,

The program you describe up to point 3 is sort of inline with my vision for the tool however seting up auctions and managing virtual storage is not something that is in the roadmap. I did similar software tho for www.EntropiaCore.com

The biggest problem is Claim Deeds dont carry only an extimate size of your find and this can vary in a quite big range for larger finds

so that there would be need for an interface to enter the tt value's of your ores and if you start doing that I might just as well start writing a seperate application

Ido

 

[Timbo Witters]

Yeah indeed. but writing down the tt values isn't that hard.
If you realy want a way around this you can always put your ores in the TT then click ones and you see a overvieuw of your stuff in the tt.
Then you can use orc software to read that data but I don't think this is a good idea because almost TTing you stuff isn't that safe

 

[Ido]

Yeah indeed. but writing down the tt values isn't that hard.
If you realy want a way around this you can always put your ores in the TT then click ones and you see a overvieuw of your stuff in the tt.
Then you can use orc software to read that data but I don't think this is a good idea because almost TTing you stuff isn't that safe

If the community response to the LBML software is good i might increase my efforts and provide further modules supporting Entropia... and trading might be one of those

Ido

 

[Vlooe]

This tool sounds interresting.

But i do not like the payment model you are planing.

My idea for a payment model:
Something like on Entropia Tracker, for every claim you earn "Gift Credits".

Without paying anything:
Access to a simple map where to find a certain ore/enmatter

With Gift Credits:
Access to a limited number of statistic about ores/enmatters
- number of finds
- size of find
- date of last find

With $:
Access to everything

 

[Ido]

This tool sounds interresting.

But i do not like the payment model you are planing.

My idea for a payment model:
Something like on Entropia Tracker, for every claim you earn "Gift Credits".

Without paying anything:
Access to a simple map where to find a certain ore/enmatter

With Gift Credits:
Access to a limited number of statistic about ores/enmatters
- number of finds
- size of find
- date of last find

With $:
Access to everything

I like your idea of gift credits for use of the tool that might allow access to additional functionality but not full functionality like a paid version. I will take this into consideration thanks!

 

[Ido]

so after a whole day of head scratching and various coding i decided to give seamless FullScreen operation a rest in favor of the solution proposed by jdegre...

Its a simple 3 button click procedure for anyone playing in full screen mode and i think its best if i focus on map overlay user accounts and local DB storage for now

Stay tuned for more information!

 

[Dr.D.C.]

If the community response to the LBML software is good i might increase my efforts and provide further modules supporting Entropia... and trading might be one of those

Ido

i see so many nice inputs here


+rep(grrrrrrrrr it don t allow me grrrrrrr)

 

[Ido]

Progress Report:

The user account system has been implemented everyone can register for an account on the web

http://www.digital-envision.com/littlebigmininglog/

Web design is not something im focusing on atm so plain text HTML will have to do for now. These accoutns will be used in the tool to log in so that when you record claims they can be traced back to you. E-mail will be verified with a activation link. I dont plan to spam anyone's e-mail but i decided to go with e-mail instead of arbitrary user login. So i can reach users if a need arises.

I would also like to start a discussion on Claim Sizes vs User Amplifiers and how to motivate people to indicate what amp they use for their mining so we dont get biased results?

Ido

 

[Legion]

regged and for the last thing i have no idea

 

[CyberPunk]

Does this tool work on enmatters too? All I've seen discussed so far is ore claims.

 

[Ido]

of course it works with enmatters

 

[Kubroz]

I would also like to start a discussion on Claim Sizes vs User Amplifiers and how to motivate people to indicate what amp they use for their mining so we dont get biased results?

Ido

Dont motivate them at all... Force them

Otherwise especially newbies can misunderstand the data. One more thing - claim size is random so it doesnt matter at all - a spot where for example belkar was found can give II as well as XXII claim in the future (and nrf as well ). Users should remember about it while accessing the datbase to avoid disappointment that there are 5 towers marked in a small area and they cant find anything there...

 

[Ido]

How do you think i can FORCE them not to give fake data ?

 

[Kubroz]

Just make the indication uf used amp or mining unamped a necesary condition of tracking of the claims.

Of course someone will still be able to indicate that he ususe oa109 while in fact he mines unamped, but I dont think such things will happen often


OR:

Dont make the claim sizes visible to ppl who access the public database. As I said above - only mineral type and depth is important when you think of exploring new mining area.

 

[Ido]

Closed Beta Release 02

Today LBML has its second release for Closed beta.

Changes include OCR accuracy improvements applied thanks to ongoing testing process. (Thanks to all our beta testers). And also a new login system where users can register for an account. (many already did even tho they are not in Closed beta and i would like to invite them to send their applications as specified in first post).

For all those who are not participating in our beta program but are following this thread to see the development progress im going to paste a simple preview of how the tool looks like at the moment.

The future releases will include:
- Local DB support for data synchronization - performance improvement
- Map Interface for data visualization - user interface
- Gama adjustments for image filtering - OCR accuracy
- Direct X hooking for full screen operation - compatibility improvements


Best Regards
Ido Sunrider

 

[Timbo Witters]

Looking shap will test when my ores get sold for action

 

[Legion]

How do you think i can FORCE them not to give fake data ?

well you cant really force them. However make it very very easy to setup if your using amps or not. ie it should almost be possible from the frontpage of the app, not in some hidden away tab or such. And you could get the finder used with ocr i guess

 

[Ido]

well you cant really force them. However make it very very easy to setup if your using amps or not. ie it should almost be possible from the frontpage of the app, not in some hidden away tab or such. And you could get the finder used with ocr i guess

I don't think the finder influences anything but my intention was to make a simple dropdown selection of the amp used easily accessible on the front page... That or to have a selection of the amps decay ... Maybe first solution is more user friendly