MA dont help stop scammers

[MadMel]

Well this is the biggest load of rubbish ive ever heard... cant do anything Pffffffft!

Case 92056 History

Melissa Abbott:
Hi,
There is a person who has been scamming people in game. Her avatar name is Lara FIRE Croft and she is a recruit for Crimson Sword.
She is asking people to give her armor and she will go to the armour machine and make it into something else. I was approached, she scanned me first, then she asked for all my shogun armour and told me she would change it into Vigilante armor. She wanted me to give all my armor to her first.
She has done this to a few people I play with and she has taken their armor and disconnected.
This is very unfair as people work hard and put a lot of money into this game.
I have also taken a screen shot of her avatar.
I think she/he needs to be banned from the game.
Thanks,
Melissa

MindArk Support:
Hi,
Thanks for reporting. You did exactly the right thing. You protected yourself and your belongings. Human nature is not homogenous and this will also affect the Entropia Universe since it has been made to resemble the real world in as many fundamental ways as possible. You will again and again come across people who try to take advantage of your misplaced trust and want to rob you of your possessions via legal in-world means. When this occurs, there is nothing MindArk can do for you. Although low and despicable, this is something that can happen in real life too. Therefore you have to be really careful and check that everything is really OK before you close a deal.

Regards,
Entropia Support

 

[Sonya Heart]

They dont even ban them anymore? She's been reported a few times and by me too.

Sod depositing may as well start scamming.

 

[Caveman]

Hmm, so this statement from MA they say its ok to scam ppl then without any punishment...

Bad indeed

 

[MadMel]

^^^ lol

my thoughts exactly j/k

Yes it is the reply i recieved... i am VERY dissapointed

EDIT: Addy something else

 

[Caveman]

hehe, sonya!

Well its called a pvp trade so why not.

 

[boborod]

Sorry, I'm with MA on this one. Private trade, between two players, caveat emptor. Beware! You would never give RL items to a stranger, why would you do it ingame? The government (MA) cannot and will not protect you. Buy a gun. Oh, right you probably already have one.

 

[Sonya Heart]

I bet if people did stop depositing and just took up scamming then MA would definatly take a stance on it.

 

[MadMel]

Sorry, I'm with MA on this one. Private trade, between two players, caveat emptor. Beware! You would never give RL items to a stranger, why would you do it ingame? The government (MA) cannot and will not protect you. Buy a gun. Oh, right you probably already have one.

Ok... u can aprove of low life people trying to scam noobs... good luck to you

 

[Montaque]

As much as I think it sux bigtime with scammers, I have to agree with MA's response!
My disciple was scammed with similar methods of his belongins and that just makes one sad. Entropia Universe lost a very nice rising participant along that scam & I bet many newcomers that gets scammed gives up in frustration.
One cant take for granted that every person u run across in any "game" is all nice and dandy! There are loads of scum whom dont lose their nights sleep bcause they scammed someone they most likely never run into again!
It can't b said enough many times to nevcomers.... be carefull and don't trust everyone without hesitation.
Most ppl are nice but not everyone!

 

[nvcK]

no screenshot no ban

 

[boborod]

Ok... u can aprove of low life people trying to scam noobs... good luck to you

Hmm, perhaps you didn't read my response? I said I agreed with MindArk on their stance. I also agree with nvcK. What are they supposed to do, act on your say so? All I am saying is if you want to play an adult game, play it like an adult.

Oh, and good luck to you too.

 

[Sonya Heart]

If MA allow someone to gain real money by fraudulant means doesnt that mean that MA are breaking a few laws here by aiding the criminals?

After all its not a non RCE game we are talking REAL MONEY here.

(Its a real question not a statement)

 

[apathy]

Actually the people who willingly give their items to scammers are the ones who are aiding criminals so I guess they are breaking the laws.

Also, since this IS an RCE game and it is REal money, why would anyone give someone their items?

 

[Kerham]

Anybody care to enlighten me what exactly is fraudulant in behaviour of scammers? And I don't talk in what regards moral, we would all agree that scamming is despicable.

But... they don't use glitches/exploits of game mechanism, they don't use who knows what software to force you accept the trade, etc. They "just" lie. So I don't see a reason to ban them (but I would like to see them banned ).

 

[Vedder]

Ofc, MA can't ban people just because you say they did something...
They would have to spend a LOT of time making sure, who said what and who did what etc, before actually banning someone.
And there will be LOTS of cases where people will have different opinions about what it acceptable behaviour etc.

Honestly, I don't think they should spent time/money doing that. Because WE would have to pay for it in the end. (And loot are poor enough as it is)


Just don't give your money/items to other people, ok?

 

[Tangine]

This has always been MA's reply to legitimate scamming. I call legitimate scamming the scamming that is allowed by ingame trade process : to say things plainly, scamming is allowed because free trade is allowed. If there was a limit on price you can set in auctions, you would see people complain that they can't sell their uber gear at uber price. If there was a lock preventing you from giving things away to scammers, people would complain they cannot lend stuff to their friends. My view on things here is double :
1) i agree with MA that the trade should be under the responsibility of the participant, and that it is the player's duty to be careful when they trade. You have to be really innocent to give people your armor when you met them 30 seconds ago. Sorry, but that's dumb.
2) I disagree with MA on the second part. Once a scammer has been identified by screenshot or by repeated reports, they should be banned, their skills all reset to 0, their inventory should be transferred into the lootpool one way or the other, their IP should be banned permanently, their withdrawals frozen for 6 months investigation, and their IP should be sent to all major MMORPG game companies and blacklisted.
And Crimson sword is a known scammer society, so i suggest MA lock them all for six months to give them time to think... And transfer IP, etc...

Legally they cannot be banned for stealing because they don't steal. They just keep stuff you gave them for free. BUT they could be banned for "spoiling other people's game experience" or "harassing the community" or "causing disorder to other participants" and "hassling company customers". The action that Mindark would take would not be against the act of scamming itself but would be an act of Public relations. Basically, Mindark could get rid of scammers for the same reasons they get rid of people who have hateful or racist talk in chat. And there would be no legal course of action for scammers because MA owns all the items, so they would get the peds on their card and bye bye... However, you agree this would take some time and resources...

SO... is MA gonna do this ? No. Because scammers only hurt the community, they don't hurt MA. The stuff they steal, they resell, so someone else deposits. The people they scam don't all stop playing. Bottom line is we all face our responsibilities in trade. That's why the game is for adults...

 

[Sionkiewicz]

Ok... u can aprove of low life people trying to scam noobs... good luck to you

No, he is not approving the scamming. He is stating that we are all responsible for our own actions and we must be sure that what we are getting into is legit. Let's face it, the whole premise of this scam is to do something that's against the rules. When I was first approached with this scam, I did not know it was a scam but rejected it because I felt that it was somehow illegal and against my moral fiber. I rejected it because I didn't want to go down that road.

My dad had a great saying for this.. "If it sounds like too good of a deal then it probably is." In other words, if someone offers to upgrade you Shogun to Vigi for a petance of the difference of the price, then it's a scam.

 

[Max Proteon]

One thing it's sure (or at least I would like to think it is) :

scammers just CAN'T cash out the peds they got from selling/scamming items

..and this is due MA's tracking system

Every action you do it is recorderd (deals,sales,chat,items/peds drop/pick up,using tp,accesing any tt and so on...

B4 you cash out , MA have the right (EULA) to accept or REFUSE your request.

Creating 2nd,3rd avi won't help !

So....scamming is in the end !

 

[Sionkiewicz]

Anybody care to enlighten me what exactly is fraudulant in behaviour of scammers? And I don't talk in what regards moral, we would all agree that scamming is despicable.

But... they don't use glitches/exploits of game mechanism, they don't use who knows what software to force you accept the trade, etc. They "just" lie. So I don't see a reason to ban them (but I would like to see them banned ).

Wouldn't lying to receive good you normally would not be receiving considered fraud? This is a crime in my country.

We recently had a school teacher who lied and said she had Breast Cancer and couldn't afford the treatments. The community kicked in and gave her thousands of dollars towards these bogus treatments. Once the truth came out, she was sent to prison for two years for fraud.

 

[Ancient]

Well if people are allowed to scam as this resembles real life then there also needs to be some kind of law enforcement within game.

Maybe if someone steals from someone then a bounty can be put on their head which would allow people to go and kill that avatar whereever they are.

This would be a fun feature. What kind of reward you might get from this I dont know. It would just please me to kill a scammer. Maybe it would be fair if u were also able to loot their corpse!

 

[Sonya Heart]

One thing it's sure (or at least I would like to think it is) :

scammers just CAN'T cash out the peds they got from selling/scamming items

..and this is due MA's tracking system

Every action you do it is recorderd (deals,sales,chat,items/peds drop/pick up,using tp,accesing any tt and so on...

B4 you cash out , MA have the right (EULA) to accept or REFUSE your request.

Creating 2nd,3rd avi won't help !

So....scamming is in the end !

Sorry but they can and have. Happened recently to Gnasher. The scammer came on here telling us how he got the cash out too.

MA are providing a way for scammers to opperate and get thier money out that I see as them working with the scammers to break what are in some countries laws.

If MA stopped them getting the money out that would be a start but they dont.

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

I have to agree with MA on this one. It is the player's fault if they are scammed by someone else. Would you give money or some of your belongings to a total stranger you've met on the street? Well, if he has a gun or a knife, yeah, perhaps. But if he says, "hey, if you give me 10 bucks, I'll multiply it by 10 in 5 minutes, just let me go to that candybar machine and I'll be back right away!"... Would you believe him?? Come on!
Oh, and another thing. When I am looking for a new game, I usually look their website and read everything I can, including manuals if provided and forums (if available)! Mindark has stated this on its website:

"The Entropia Universe Scam Prevention Policy

Due to the diversity of human nature, not all participants in the Entropia Universe will be honest upstanding citizens. Just like in real life, the virtual universe may be home to unscrupulous people looking to scam others out of their hard-earned possessions. MindArk PE AB ("MindArk") does not support or condone this exploitative behavior inside the Entropia Universe. However, if one is 'scammed' out of goods or funds, MindArk is in no way responsible. The company cannot and will not return items lost in a scam. The loss is your own responsibility.

If an Entropia Universe participant reports another participant as a 'scammer', MindArk will investigate and determine if any action needs to be taken. Each case is unique and will be treated as such. One means of disciplinary action is the issuing of a warning and a call for the behavior to cease. If the behavior persists, the participant risks suspension of his or her account, or permanent expulsion from the Entropia Universe.

ADVICE

Always be cautious and wary of people offering deals that seem too good to be true - they usually are!

When trading, always research the market to see if the suggested price is reasonable. People will use all kind of arguments as to why a certain price is the correct one, or why a certain piece of equipment is the best.

Do not trust anyone unless you know them personally.

If someone attempts to sell you many items and you cannot see them, they probably don't exist.

If you want to make a purchase, buy items one at a time.

Always remember to right-click on the offered items to view their individual ITEM INFO data.

If you have a valuable item that someone wants to see, do not just show it willingly. Place it in the trade window instead. This allows both parties to view it. Remember! Do not hit the 'ACCEPT' button. If the other user says he or she cannot see it or get the information on it, you are probably dealing with a 'scammer' at work.

Do not listen to 'hard luck cases'. Scam artists will say or do almost anything to get your items from you.

If you kill a creature that was close to death and then loot it, do not give up the loot to someone claiming it as theirs. The user who does the most damage has the right to loot the kill.

Think a deal through, as all trades are final.

Remember that MindArk will not return items lost in a scam, so protect yourself! "

And:
"20 Jun 2006
Armor Upgrade Scams

Beware of impersonators and participants offering armor upgrades!
The Entropia Universe Support Department advises you to remain alert when dealing with other avatars. Recently, several participants have used the names of well-known avatars to scam less experienced participants. Another common scam attempt is to offer armor upgrades, where the victim is asked to give his whole set of armor to the culprit.
For information about how to protect yourself and your belongings, please click here. "

And also:
"Abuse FAQ

Please refer to Paragraph 15 of the End User Licence Agreement (EULA) for full details reagrding abusive behaviour or language within the Virtual Universe.

How can I report an abuse?
You may report an abuse to the Entropia Universe Support Department by filing a support ticket (see below). Please add all relevant information, such as the date and time of the incidence and the full name of the avatar. Unless you state the full name of the avatar, we cannot help you further. If you have a screenshot of the incidence, please send this to abuse@mindark.com. Please add the support ticket number as 'subject' and no other information.

Someone has just offered me an arnor upgrade. Is this safe?
No, definitely not. This is surrently one of the most common scams inside the virtual world. There is no such thing as an armor upgrade within the Entropia Universe. If you receive such an offer, we ask you to note the FULL name of the avatar and, if possible, take a screenshot of the conversation and send it to: abuse@mindark.com. Thereafter you can report the matter to the Entropia Universe Support Dept.

Somebody wants to sell me his/her skills, but says that I have to provide the Inserter Tool and the Empty Skill Implant. What should I do?
Be very careful with these types of offers. Usually skills are sold when they have already been downloaded to an Empty Skill Implant, so this is quite irregular. If you lose items during such a deal, there is nothing the Entropia Universe will be able to do for you. Such deals will always be at your own risk and we will not be able to reverse the trade for you if anything goes wrong.

A friend of mine wants to borrow my gun. I trust him/her as he/she is a member in my society, but what happens if he/she fails to return the item?
The Entropia Universe does not support shared ownership. If you lend an item to somebody else it is completely at your own risk. If the item is not returned, there is nothing the Entropia Universe Support Dept. can do for you. Our log files will show a regular trade/exchange and will not reveal any indications of a fraud or scam. Therefore, NEVER lend items to anyone unless you are prepared to risk losing them.

Am I allowed to use an Auto-clicker?
Auto clicking software is not endorsed by Mindark, and anyone found violating this Conditions of Use may risk a permanent lockdown of their Entropia Universe account.

I have lent an item to another participant and now he/she will not return it. Could you please return this item to my Inventory.
As stated previously, the Entropia Universe does not support shared ownership for items or property. If you should get such an offer, please think twice. If you loose any items because of such an arrangement, the Entropia Unvierse Support Dept. will not be able to help you further as our log files will show a regular trade/exchange and not reveal any indications of a fruad or scam.

How can I prevent a scam?

Never trust anyone. Be cautious with whom you are dealing. Be sure that you are truly dealing with the right person. Note the name of your trading partner. Every avatar in the Entropia Universe has a unique name; should you become the victim of a scam, you will have the ability to warn your fellow participants about this avatar.


Only use the ingame features provided by MindArk to trade with others (PvP trade, auction). Please note that drop/pick trades do not guarantee a safe transfer of items between avatars, as an item dropped on the ground can be picked up by anyone.


If you plan to buy a larger amount of items, please make sure to buy these items one at a time. Do not trust people telling you that you will receive the rest of the deal later.


Never lend items to anyone (unless you are prepared to take the risk) and never agree to a deal with someone just to get your peace. When you see an item in the trade window, always right-click and choose 'Items Info' on them to make sure it is the item you want. Also make sure the deal you have confirmed is correctly presented in the receipt window, before you accept and close the deal.


Do not buy any items or PED outside of the virtual universe as it is both unsecure and against the Conditions of Use.


Always check the current market value of an item to make sure that the suggested price is reasonable. People will use all kind of arguments why a certain price is the correct one, or why a certain piece of equipment is the best available.


If a deal sounds too good to be true, that is probably just what it is.


The Entropia Universe does not support shared ownership for items or property. If you should get such an offer, please think twice. If you loose any items because of such an arrangement, MindArk will not help you further.


Think a deal through, as all trades are final.

Can I get details about a participant that scammed me/hacked my computer.
All details about accounts and avatars are confidential and cannot be discussed with other participants.





If you have any other questions please submit a new Support Case."

I think this should be enough for noobs to stay away of scams. So, there is some prevention work done by MA. Noobs should read more, as there is now enough info available on the website to warn newcomers about the existence of ingame scams.

 

[Bonna]

scammers

Well if people are allowed to scam as this resembles real life then there also needs to be some kind of law enforcement within game.

Maybe if someone steals from someone then a bounty can be put on their head which would allow people to go and kill that avatar whereever they are.

This would be a fun feature. What kind of reward you might get from this I dont know. It would just please me to kill a scammer. Maybe it would be fair if u were also able to loot their corpse!

I like that idea... permanent PVP on suspected scammers.. watch them run...run away I tells ya..........

 

[Bonna]

scammers

I have to agree with MA on this one. It is the player's fault if they are scammed by someone else. Would you give money or some of your belongings to someone to a total stranger you've met on the street? Well, if he has a gun or a knife, yeah, perhaps. But if he says, "hey, if you give me 10 bucks, I'll multiply it by 10 in 5 minutes, just let me go to that candybar machine and I'll be back right away!"... Would you believe him?? Come on!
Oh, and another thing. When I am looking for a new game, I usually look their website and read everything I can, including manuals if provided and forums (if available)! Mindark has stated this on its website:

"The Entropia Universe Scam Prevention Policy

Due to the diversity of human nature, not all participants in the Entropia Universe will be honest upstanding citizens. Just like in real life, the virtual universe may be home to unscrupulous people looking to scam others out of their hard-earned possessions. MindArk PE AB ("MindArk") does not support or condone this exploitative behavior inside the Entropia Universe. However, if one is 'scammed' out of goods or funds, MindArk is in no way responsible. The company cannot and will not return items lost in a scam. The loss is your own responsibility.

If an Entropia Universe participant reports another participant as a 'scammer', MindArk will investigate and determine if any action needs to be taken. Each case is unique and will be treated as such. One means of disciplinary action is the issuing of a warning and a call for the behavior to cease. If the behavior persists, the participant risks suspension of his or her account, or permanent expulsion from the Entropia Universe.

ADVICE

Always be cautious and wary of people offering deals that seem too good to be true - they usually are!

When trading, always research the market to see if the suggested price is reasonable. People will use all kind of arguments as to why a certain price is the correct one, or why a certain piece of equipment is the best.

Do not trust anyone unless you know them personally.

If someone attempts to sell you many items and you cannot see them, they probably don't exist.

If you want to make a purchase, buy items one at a time.

Always remember to right-click on the offered items to view their individual ITEM INFO data.

If you have a valuable item that someone wants to see, do not just show it willingly. Place it in the trade window instead. This allows both parties to view it. Remember! Do not hit the 'ACCEPT' button. If the other user says he or she cannot see it or get the information on it, you are probably dealing with a 'scammer' at work.

Do not listen to 'hard luck cases'. Scam artists will say or do almost anything to get your items from you.

If you kill a creature that was close to death and then loot it, do not give up the loot to someone claiming it as theirs. The user who does the most damage has the right to loot the kill.

Think a deal through, as all trades are final.

Remember that MindArk will not return items lost in a scam, so protect yourself! "

And:
"20 Jun 2006
Armor Upgrade Scams

Beware of impersonators and participants offering armor upgrades!
The Entropia Universe Support Department advises you to remain alert when dealing with other avatars. Recently, several participants have used the names of well-known avatars to scam less experienced participants. Another common scam attempt is to offer armor upgrades, where the victim is asked to give his whole set of armor to the culprit.
For information about how to protect yourself and your belongings, please click here. "

And also:
"Abuse FAQ

Please refer to Paragraph 15 of the End User Licence Agreement (EULA) for full details reagrding abusive behaviour or language within the Virtual Universe.

How can I report an abuse?
You may report an abuse to the Entropia Universe Support Department by filing a support ticket (see below). Please add all relevant information, such as the date and time of the incidence and the full name of the avatar. Unless you state the full name of the avatar, we cannot help you further. If you have a screenshot of the incidence, please send this to abuse@mindark.com. Please add the support ticket number as 'subject' and no other information.

Someone has just offered me an arnor upgrade. Is this safe?
No, definitely not. This is surrently one of the most common scams inside the virtual world. There is no such thing as an armor upgrade within the Entropia Universe. If you receive such an offer, we ask you to note the FULL name of the avatar and, if possible, take a screenshot of the conversation and send it to: abuse@mindark.com. Thereafter you can report the matter to the Entropia Universe Support Dept.

Somebody wants to sell me his/her skills, but says that I have to provide the Inserter Tool and the Empty Skill Implant. What should I do?
Be very careful with these types of offers. Usually skills are sold when they have already been downloaded to an Empty Skill Implant, so this is quite irregular. If you lose items during such a deal, there is nothing the Entropia Universe will be able to do for you. Such deals will always be at your own risk and we will not be able to reverse the trade for you if anything goes wrong.

A friend of mine wants to borrow my gun. I trust him/her as he/she is a member in my society, but what happens if he/she fails to return the item?
The Entropia Universe does not support shared ownership. If you lend an item to somebody else it is completely at your own risk. If the item is not returned, there is nothing the Entropia Universe Support Dept. can do for you. Our log files will show a regular trade/exchange and will not reveal any indications of a fraud or scam. Therefore, NEVER lend items to anyone unless you are prepared to risk losing them.

Am I allowed to use an Auto-clicker?
Auto clicking software is not endorsed by Mindark, and anyone found violating this Conditions of Use may risk a permanent lockdown of their Entropia Universe account.

I have lent an item to another participant and now he/she will not return it. Could you please return this item to my Inventory.
As stated previously, the Entropia Universe does not support shared ownership for items or property. If you should get such an offer, please think twice. If you loose any items because of such an arrangement, the Entropia Unvierse Support Dept. will not be able to help you further as our log files will show a regular trade/exchange and not reveal any indications of a fruad or scam.

How can I prevent a scam?

Never trust anyone. Be cautious with whom you are dealing. Be sure that you are truly dealing with the right person. Note the name of your trading partner. Every avatar in the Entropia Universe has a unique name; should you become the victim of a scam, you will have the ability to warn your fellow participants about this avatar.


Only use the ingame features provided by MindArk to trade with others (PvP trade, auction). Please note that drop/pick trades do not guarantee a safe transfer of items between avatars, as an item dropped on the ground can be picked up by anyone.


If you plan to buy a larger amount of items, please make sure to buy these items one at a time. Do not trust people telling you that you will receive the rest of the deal later.


Never lend items to anyone (unless you are prepared to take the risk) and never agree to a deal with someone just to get your peace. When you see an item in the trade window, always right-click and choose 'Items Info' on them to make sure it is the item you want. Also make sure the deal you have confirmed is correctly presented in the receipt window, before you accept and close the deal.


Do not buy any items or PED outside of the virtual universe as it is both unsecure and against the Conditions of Use.


Always check the current market value of an item to make sure that the suggested price is reasonable. People will use all kind of arguments why a certain price is the correct one, or why a certain piece of equipment is the best available.


If a deal sounds too good to be true, that is probably just what it is.


The Entropia Universe does not support shared ownership for items or property. If you should get such an offer, please think twice. If you loose any items because of such an arrangement, MindArk will not help you further.


Think a deal through, as all trades are final.

Can I get details about a participant that scammed me/hacked my computer.
All details about accounts and avatars are confidential and cannot be discussed with other participants.





If you have any other questions please submit a new Support Case."

I think this should be enough for noobs to stay away of scams. So, there is some prevention work done by MA. Noobs should read more, as there is now enough info available on the website to warn newcomers about the existence of ingame scams.

Longest posted reply ever.... but I like it...

 

[Max Proteon]

Sorry but they can and have. Happened recently to Gnasher. The scammer came on here telling us how he got the cash out too.

MA are providing a way for scammers to opperate and get thier money out that I see as them working with the scammers to break what are in some countries laws.

If MA stopped them getting the money out that would be a start but they dont.

Ok, are you trying to say that MA "allow" scammers just to "push" more participants to buy a Gold Card ?

That is interesting theory

 

[Nutarix]

1. Never trust anyone.

People get scammed ones, then they learn that a deal is final. I'v been scammed ones, back when the taiolers stopped selling black closhes. Some a$$ bought it from me, and sold it on auction with a nice markup.

2. Never believe in magic.
3. Never lent anything out, without collateral.
4. Buy a gold Card.
5. Be paranoid

 

[Sonya Heart]

Ok, are you trying to say that MA "allow" scammers just to "push" more participants to buy a Gold Card ?

That is interesting theory

A gold card wont stop you being scammed just hacked, but they allow that too

If someone tricks you into giving ur armour they can sell it and get the money out. Same with ESI scams.

And to those that say you wouldnt do it in real life... How many times have you left your car in a garage to have its tires upgraded. If they stole your car you would have the law on your side. Why not in EU.

MA allow scammers as it saves them work. The only way it will change is when it hurts MA themselves they dint give a hoot if we get hurt.

 

[acaffrey]

the end of EU will/may come when the flow of new players is cut, anything that can cause new players to quit prematurely should be heavily frowned upon. Scammers should be out, IP's locked, whatever it takes.

 

[Kerham]

Wouldn't lying to receive good you normally would not be receiving considered fraud? This is a crime in my country.

In my country is a crime to harm animals.. or to walk naked on the streets.. or to sell guns... etc. We could go on like this forever.

We must make a separation in what regards "crimes" and "fraudulent" ingame and IRL..
There are:

1. IRL crimes which are outlawed by IRL laws and police or similar IRL organisms enforce the laws.

2. ingame "crimes" which are outlawed by EULA and EULA is enforced by MA.

Is normally that ingame activities should not be a form of IRL crimes and those cases are also enforced by EULA (say sexual harassment, money laundring through PEDs exchange, etcetcetc).

But ingame we don't have a legislative system similar to IRL. From the roleplaying point of view, we talk about a pioneering universe, with barely established human structures, with scarced elements of government and such. Is somehow similar to Wild West period.

Therefore, we must keep in mind that exists a limit between VR and IRL and from this point of view, scamming is legitimate. Same is reselling, same is market manipulation, same is resources/products monopoly, etc. IT IS part of roleplaying. And is comunity's duty to react to such, in the limits offered by the universe. From this point of view, wanda's efforts, as example, with "scammer alert" and other similar initiatives are wellcame. Maybe in future we will have the posibility of establishing ingame governing structures, which to handle such cases. But it is not MA's duty to counter scammers. MA must do their best into insuring us safe trade mechanisms (and they did), even issue warnings to tell us about scamming, but they can't enforce measures against them. Scamming is inside game mechanism, as opposed to, for example, third-party software known as "hunting bot" which is illegal for the system and must be countered on sight.

I hope I made my point clear.

 

[Witte]

Sorry but they can and have. Happened recently to Gnasher. The scammer came on here telling us how he got the cash out too.

MA are providing a way for scammers to opperate and get thier money out that I see as them working with the scammers to break what are in some countries laws.

If MA stopped them getting the money out that would be a start but they dont.

Funny how you take the word of a scammer just like that