MA dont help stop scammers

[Nutarix]

MA allow scammers as it saves them work. The only way it will change is when it hurts MA themselves they dint give a hoot if we get hurt.

Soo correct.

The only way people learn to act properly in EU is by learning the hard way. Remeber all of the players were ones KIDS irl and we all had to learn to live. Ingame people lent any-shit out with collateral, and get scammed, so the learn. And if MindArk has to use resources on each case, they'd properly start to drain the loot pool.

So the most economical solution might actually be .. to let us pay

 

[Max Proteon]

If they stole your car you would have the law on your side.

irl...my law...it is in my personal safe box, in the bank (a black and cold Sig&Sauer)

 

[andy5579]

bointies would be a great feature! once killed in pvp, the killer gets the loot! This would be amazing for assasinate the vip competitions! e.g. the vip is worth 100 peds (but is also armed to the teeth )

 

[Caveman]

In my country is a crime to harm animals.. or to walk naked on the streets.. or to sell guns... etc. We could go on like this forever.

We must make a separation in what regards "crimes" and "fraudulent" ingame and IRL..
There are:

1. IRL crimes which are outlawed by IRL laws and police or similar IRL organisms enforce the laws.

2. ingame "crimes" which are outlawed by EULA and EULA is enforced by MA.

Is normally that ingame activities should not be a form of IRL crimes and those cases are also enforced by EULA (say sexual harassment, money laundring through PEDs exchange, etcetcetc).

But ingame we don't have a legislative system similar to IRL. From the roleplaying point of view, we talk about a pioneering universe, with barely established human structures, with scarced elements of government and such. Is somehow similar to Wild West period.

Therefore, we must keep in mind that exists a limit between VR and IRL and from this point of view, scamming is legitimate. Same is reselling, same is market manipulation, same is resources/products monopoly, etc. IT IS part of roleplaying. And is comunity's duty to react to such, in the limits offered by the universe. From this point of view, wanda's efforts, as example, with "scammer alert" and other similar initiatives are wellcame. Maybe in future we will have the posibility of establishing ingame governing structures, which to handle such cases. But it is not MA's duty to counter scammers. MA must do their best into insuring us safe trade mechanisms (and they did), even issue warnings to tell us about scamming, but they can't enforce measures against them. Scamming is inside game mechanism, as opposed to, for example, third-party software known as "hunting bot" which is illegal for the system and must be countered on sight.

I hope I made my point clear.

But even in the Wild West as you speak of, there was Sheriffs that would take actions against scammers/outlaws. And they did it the PK way.


I've said it before and ill say it again. Make all scammers PKable all over Calypso! Make me the Sheriff and ill personally see to its being done

 

[Caveman]

irl...my law...it is in my personal safe box, in the bank (a black and cold Sig&Sauer)

Hehe!

i got 2, one S&W and one Beretta, but they are at home in the basement.

 

[Vedder]

...
MA allow scammers as it saves them work. The only way it will change is when it hurts MA themselves they dint give a hoot if we get hurt.

It DOES hurt MA, since scammed people often leave EU.

I'm sure MA would LOVE to get rid of scamming if it was possible, but it's not.
Having MA acting as police would be far too expensive.

Just learn the it: Don't give other people your valuables.

...
And to those that say you wouldnt do it in real life... How many times have you left your car in a garage to have its tires upgraded. If they stole your car you would have the law on your side. Why not in EU.
...

Bad analogy, since you KNOW who you trusted your car with.
More appopriate comparison would be to to read in a mail order catalogue that someone would upgrade your gold jewelry to PLATINUM if you mail it to them.
Put your RL gold in an envelope and mail it... And wait to receive your platinum.

 

[Leandro Kun]

Well if people are allowed to scam as this resembles real life then there also needs to be some kind of law enforcement within game.

Maybe if someone steals from someone then a bounty can be put on their head which would allow people to go and kill that avatar whereever they are.

This would be a fun feature. What kind of reward you might get from this I dont know. It would just please me to kill a scammer. Maybe it would be fair if u were also able to loot their corpse!

Lol great idea

Unfortunately it would be too exploitable to have as a feature. How annoying would it be getting killed constantly because someone doesn’t like you, or because you outbid them on auction. It would be bounty madness

 

[gmccumskey]

People don't seem to realise that like any government, MA cannot go around locking accounts and banning people just because you say they are a scammer. But try to imagine this in real life:

-------
Scammer: Hi there bud. Listen, I can take your car to the shop down the street and install a new kit for you to make it faster. Are you interested?

You: HELL YA. Here are the keys. Just bring it back before 9 cos I have a meeting to get to.

------

*2 Hours later walking into the police station*

You: Hi, I'd like to report a theft.

Policeman: What was stolen?

You: My Car.

Policman: And how did this happen?

You: Well a guy approached me and said he would upgrade my cars engine for me so I gave him the keys and haven't seen him since.

Policeman: [Raises eyes condescendingly from charge book and says sarcastically] And you believed him?

You: Well of course .... who could pass up an offer like that?

Policeman: Here's what I'm going to do? I won't write you a bill for wasting my time and keeping people with real issues from reporting them or getting them resolved, if you promise not to be so stupid next time ... ok?

---------

I have myself reported scammers, not because I got scammed but because I led the scammers on far enough to be able to gather enough evidence for MA to do what ever it wishes.

So just be cleverer folks. As in real life, the advice is, if it sounds too good to be true --- IT IS.

 

[Witte]

Bad analogy, since you KNOW who you trusted your car with.
More appopriate comparison would be to to read in a mail order catalogue that someone would upgrade your gold jewelry to PLATINUM if you mail it to them.
Put your RL gold in an envelope and mail it... And wait to receive your platinum.

Then you would still know the address. A better analogy would be that you walk on the street, and a complete stranger says "I can turn that silver ring of yours into gold. Just give me 100 USD and the ring and meet me here in an hour."

And with people you know, in EU its exactly like IRL. If you lend 100USD to a "friend", and the next day he sais he never got any money, you can go to the police and they will say: give us prove or find better friends byebye. You will never see your money again.

Just pointing out IRL analogies are in favor of MA's course of action.

 

[Sonya Heart]

Bad analogy, since you KNOW who you trusted your car with.
More appopriate comparison would be to to read in a mail order catalogue that someone would upgrade your gold jewelry to PLATINUM if you mail it to them.
Put your RL gold in an envelope and mail it... And wait to receive your platinum.

Not really since I know its happened, and they caught the bugger. Just because you know where the person is at that moment doesnt mean they can be trusted.

There are many instances in RL that you give something expensive to someone, its only morals of being in front of the person that make them give it back.

MA make it too easy for scammers, They used to lock them it appears they dont bother anymore. To me thats a very bad thing and just another on the list of bad things.

 

[Kerham]

it appears they dont bother anymore

Actually, we don't know if they lock or not scammers.

 

[Witte]

MA make it too easy for scammers, They used to lock them it appears they dont bother anymore. To me thats a very bad thing and just another on the list of bad things.

The only thing that makes it easy for scammers is the stupidity of some people .

 

[Sonya Heart]

Actually, we don't know if they lock or not scammers.

Lara Croft has been reported many times she's all over the scammer forum. I have reported here once too with screenshots.

She even had someone take screenshots of here scamming asking for it to be sent to MA.

Still she's here. same avi same clothes.

I think we know.

The only thing that makes it easy for scammers is the stupidity of some people .

OK OK so people need to be smarter, that doesnt help the 2 day noob that doesnt know.

Still if scammers couldnt get there money out then would they bother?

On withdraw check if reported for scamming = true then refuse withdrawl

Something wrong with that?

 

[Witte]

OK OK so people need to be smarter, that doesnt help the 2 day noob that doesnt know.

Still if scammers couldnt get there money out then would they bother?

On withdraw check if reported for scamming = true then refuse withdrawl

Something wrong with that?

I agree if there is undenyable proof. But I think most of the times it will end up with one persons word vs another persons word. And MA has better things to do then put time in investigating the actions of naive and careless people. People are warned numeous times. And if a 2 days old noob is scammed: no problem at all. Lesson learned.
You say scammers can withdraw, because a scammer told you that. I dont believe scammers.

 

[gmccumskey]

One problem with real life analogies .... in real life, you cannot "vanish" ... in Entropia a scammer can get hold of your stuff and disconnect for months ... play another avatar, etc.

That is not something so easy to do in real life. So in other words, you should be even MORE careful when dealing with people in Entropia because of this.

 

[Sonya Heart]

I agree if there is undenyable proof. But I think most of the times it will end up with one persons word vs another persons word. And MA has better things to do then put time in investigating the actions of naive and careless people. People are warned numeous times. And if a 2 days old noob is scammed: no problem at all. Lesson learned.
You say scammers can withdraw, because a scammer told you that. I dont believe scammers.

If they couldnt get it out why would they bother?

And in this case of Lara Croft undeiable proof was sent, by me. They did nothing!

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

Longest posted reply ever.... but I like it...

Thanks m8.

 

[Witte]

If they couldnt get it out why would they bother?

And in this case of Lara Croft undeiable proof was sent, by me. They did nothing!

What you send doesnt matter. MA need to be able to verify it themselves. And that is timeconsuming, and maybe even impossible as we dont know what is logged and what isnt.

And its not too hard to do some money laundry. You can just transfer the dirty money to a "honest" avatar and withdraw it there.

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

I agree if there is undenyable proof. But I think most of the times it will end up with one persons word vs another persons word. And MA has better things to do then put time in investigating the actions of naive and careless people. People are warned numeous times. And if a 2 days old noob is scammed: no problem at all. Lesson learned.You say scammers can withdraw, because a scammer told you that. I dont believe scammers.

I totally agree, it happened to me right in the beginning, and i was scammed out of 20 ped. I'm glad it was only 20 ped (10 for "borrowing" + 10 from "burelli's investment scam"). Lesson learned for sure then.

 

[Vedder]

Lara Croft has been reported many times she's all over the scammer forum. I have reported here once too with screenshots.

She even had someone take screenshots of here scamming asking for it to be sent to MA.

Still she's here. same avi same clothes.

I think we know.
...

It's very easy to accuse someone of scamming, or to fabricate 'evidence' if you want to hurt someone, so MA would HAVE to look into each case very carefully before acting, which is why it's not a viable solution.
And even when MA does act (they do that sometimes... Don't know what it takes), the scammers are probably back scamming with a new avatar in 30 minutes.

I agree with you that the it's a big problem, and it really SUCKS and scammers are the SCUM.
I just don't see an easy solution, and I don't blame MA for the situation. I blame the scammers, who are sooo low to ruin other peoples (virtual) life for a few bucks. (Shame on you scammers)

 

[AlphaGeek]

Interesting in the original post that the support droid called the items in your inventory "your belongings". According to the Marcobot and the EULA, we own nothing on planet Calypso except the PEDS on our cards.

With that stated in the EULA, it's likely there is no law enforcement jurisdiction that will help you recover your items or go after the offending parties.

Step up MA. Help protect your paying customers or risk losing them to some other company that takes customer relations seriously.

AG

 

[gmccumskey]

Interesting in the original post that the support droid called the items in your inventory "your belongings". According to the Marcobot and the EULA, we own nothing on planet Calypso except the PEDS on our cards.

With that stated in the EULA, it's likely there is no law enforcement jurisdiction that will help you recover your items or go after the offending parties.

Step up MA. Help protect your paying customers or risk losing them to some other company that takes customer relations seriously.

AG

But MA do say we own their VALUE .... which is another way of saying we do own them (right there on EULA .... honestly ..... promise)

 

[Coffee]

Quite simple really why MA doesn't do anything when someone cries scam. THEY CAN'T legally. It's about one persons word against another. This is were courts come in. Imagine what would happen if you were aproached by someone saying the guy across the street holding a ten dollar bill just stole it from him. So you cross the street, beat the punk, take the ten dollar bill and give it to the first fellow. The guy thanks you and takes off. Now the cops get there and arrest you for beating the second guy, stealing his money, and the list of charges continue I'm sure. Turns out it was really his money for one reason or another. MA, as much as a lot of people like to think, is NOT the law. MA will help with game records and logs if anyone does decide to go to court against a theif or scammer. What MA can't do is take the law into there own hands. THAT would open them up to alllllll kinds of lawsuits and possible criminal charges. Get smart people. Stop blaming MA for doing nothing when LEGALLY they can't. Possession is said to be 9/10's of the law here in the States. I'm sure it holds just as much truth in other places.

Yes this is a RCE game. Therefore RCE LAWS apply. It's not MA's place to go to court for you. In most cases they can't go to court on your behalf to reclaim your goods. You have to do that. And I for one wouldn't want to be paying your court costs to MA, SO DON"T DO STUPID THINGS.

 

[Star Rebirth]

I reported a Armor upgrade scammer named: "TheGirl From Outdoors" and she got baned. It took time but it happened.

All u have to do is take the screen shot of the conversation and hit 'C' and 'P', save it and then scan teh avatar and take another screen shot and send those screen shots to MA at abuse@mindark.com and then make a support case stating the full name of the avatar and SOC if any and as much details as u can provide about the matter.

 

[TrinketSoul]

My statement is assuming adequate proof has been given but…

Do you people truly believe MA is right, on allowing these things to happen?

…will again and again come across people who try to take advantage of your misplaced trust and want to rob you of your possessions via legal in-world means…

How is “Legal” and “rob you” in the same sentence supporting each other? It is illegal to steal money, regardless of if it was out of trust or at gunpoint. I can’t tell someone I’ll fix their car for 3000 dollars and take the money and walk away get a burger and watch a football game. Can you? Like Sonya said we are talking about real money here… and when real money is stolen you are a criminal.

 

[Coffee]

My statement is assuming adequate proof has been given but…

Do you people truly believe MA is right, on allowing these things to happen?

…will again and again come across people who try to take advantage of your misplaced trust and want to rob you of your possessions via legal in-world means…

How is “Legal” and “rob you” in the same sentence supporting each other? It is illegal to steal money, regardless of if it was out of trust or at gunpoint. I can’t tell someone I’ll fix their car for 3000 dollars and take the money and walk away get a burger and watch a football game. Can you? Like Sonya said we are talking about real money here… and when real money is stolen you are a criminal.

When a criminal exists, the police or local law inforcement is called in to aprehend. The courts, lawyers and Judges handle it from there. MA is in no way any one of those. If they chose to take things into there own hands they would be called vigilante's. That is illegal. You can not take the law into your own hands. MA has stated many times that they will gladly hand over any logs and records if you decided to go to your local authorities to file a criminal charge against someone scamming or stealing. If MA did play vigilante then they would be opening themselves to MANY lawsuits and possible CRIMINAL charges. The possible end of EU if MA decides to play vigilante. So no, MA shouldn't do anything.

Edit: Read my post above as well.

 

[Haxtor moogle]

actualy I have seen Lara FIRE Croft scamming new miners out of thier finds. she tried to do this to me once when i started playing, I descided to never deal with her again when she offered me 101% on 1k of lyst.

 

[TrinketSoul]

When a criminal exists, the police or local law inforcement is called in to aprehend. The courts, lawyers and Judges handle it from there. MA is in no way any one of those. If they chose to take things into there own hands they would be called vigilante's. That is illegal. You can not take the law into your own hands. MA has stated many times that they will gladly hand over any logs and records if you decided to go to your local authorities to file a criminal charge against someone scamming or stealing. If MA did play vigilante then they would be opening themselves to MANY lawsuits and possible CRIMINAL charges. The possible end of EU if MA decides to play vigilante. So no, MA shouldn't do anything.

Edit: Read my post above as well.

I am quite aware of your post thank you. I think you may have misread mine. MA has every right in the world to ban players, which is not taking any type of vigilante action which would hold them legally responsible for anything. As well, treating others in this manner is denying the right of the victim to enjoy the game. This is against the EULA. So you are telling me Alpha Geek can get banned for hosting a sweating party but restrictive responses do not include deceiving be fraudulent and repeatedly deny the victims right to enjoy their game play? Also in some countries Vigilantes are a legal method of maintaining law and order. In some countries they cut your hands of for stealing to prevent you from doing it again. Even more some countries stone thief’s in the town square as it is more serious than crimes you perceive as heinous.

I also want to add if theft is occurring, and it is being harbored and allowed by MA, then MA is on a very bad end of a lawsuit. It is just as illegal to harbor criminals as it is to be a criminal.

 

[Makrocow]

The broblem is not the people who are not respecting the common morale and etique. The broblem is that we have no means, in this game, to hang em on the neares pixel tree.

 

[Coffee]

I am quite aware of your post thank you. I think you may have misread mine. MA has every right in the world to ban players, which is not taking any type of vigilante action which would hold them legally responsible for anything. As well, treating others in this manner is denying the right of the victim to enjoy the game. This is against the EULA. So you are telling me Alpha Geek can get banned for hosting a sweating party but restrictive responses do not include deceiving be fraudulent and repeatedly deny the victims right to enjoy their game play? Also in some countries Vigilantes are a legal method of maintaining law and order. In some countries they cut your hands of for stealing to prevent you from doing it again. Even more some countries stone thief’s in the town square as it is more serious than crimes you perceive as heinous.

I also want to add if theft is occurring, and it is being harbored and allowed by MA, then MA is on a very bad end of a lawsuit. It is just as illegal to harbor criminals as it is to be a criminal.

I added "Read my post above" because most people don't finish reading thru a long thread before posting.

The examples you give of cutting off hands and stoneing people have no relevance in this situation. My point is MA must obide by certains laws (Swedish presumeably) and act accordingly. They do ban scammers when enough evidence and proof is given. It has been done many times in the past. Simply saying someone scammed you after handing over items to them is not near proof enough. Star Rebirth posted above great info on this along with the fact that they do ban these scammers.

Thank you Star Rebirth + Rep for you