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FYI: Mindark: Not the Enemy, not your friend either.

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How the hell MA can know who lie , who say the true ?

In fact , MA can not know what kind of deal exist between player IRL ...
Maybe X did sell his car to Y
And if MA give back the ped to X then , its UY who got scamed...
Ma have no clue what you do IRL ... its to you ...

Sad , but rules are simple and know of evry player , and specially old...

And yes , maybe one day i will get scamed from something , and that day i will cry...But we have to assume hour action...

Up to you friend to call police...
From what i know the suposed scammer is swedish , so it will be fast to get MA solve problem if there is problem...
 
Etopia said:
How the hell MA can know who lie , who say the true ?

In fact , MA can not know what kind of deal exist between player IRL ...
Maybe X did sell his car to Y
And if MA give back the ped to X then , its UY who got scamed...
Ma have no clue what you do IRL ... its to you ...

Sad , but rules are simple and know of evry player , and specially old...

And yes , maybe one day i will get scamed from something , and that day i will cry...But we have to assume hour action...

Up to you friend to call police...
From what i know the suposed scammer is swedish , so it will be fast to get MA solve problem if there is problem...
Click to expand...


Chat logs....
 
Im very sorry for your friend, and i hope he gets his peds back.
However, i fail to see where we can say that Mindark did something wrong here.

If they step in and do something here, everyone can start sending a supportcase before every deal stating "This might be fishy".

Would love to know who X is.
Heck i'll even give you 5 ped for it, and if everyone else do, the 80.000 is soon back.

Some people allready wrote that "you shouldnt trust people in game".
But actually very very very few people are assholes like X.
Therefor his name should be revealed, so the rest of the community knows who he is and treats him like that.
 
Mkdesign said:
But you ommit the fact that you're not dealing with a MA computer but with another living person.

The transaction receipt does not consider any previous agreement between the parties what-so-ever
Plus, the money could already have gone through the laundry: avatar bought 80K worth of stuff through auction; avatar dumped 80K on OA-101; I could go on for hours...

Since at the very moment the scammed money is cycled back into the system, It's practically impossible to get a fair cut for everyone.

What if the scammer lost 40k on OA-101s, then today you score a 40K OA-101 ATH using the money he's just gambled and lost; would you be happy if tomorrow MA sent you this support case:

"Hi,

We are very sorry to inform you that we are withdrawing 40K PEDs from your PED Card, since you have scored a HOF funded by fraudulous money.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support Department"

Guess not.
That's the whole point
Click to expand...

I seriously don't get you. You say everybody gets pissed if MA starts to investugate this case and not theirs.
Then i say, let MA ask a fee for doing that. Of course work is needed to track down the money, but MA has proven they have the tools for that.
I do not believe that a scammers is going to gamble away his newly acquired money. They will try to get it to 2nd (or nth) avatars, withdraw or just keep on the pedcard. In all these cases it should not be to hard for MA to track.

1. Search for scam transaction -> hmm 80k ped and nothing in return, hmm chatlog says prepayment for imp fap (and no imp fap traded)
2. Lock scammer
3. Find the money, track down transactions(and deeper ones)
4. Return the money / item
5. Withdraw the admin fee
6. Close scammer's account(s) and report to police
 
I just wonder tho which Top 10 Soc tolerates such behaviour (as it was said, "known" scammer) :scratch2:

Share your knowledge +repping me *gg*

But generally, I see it like chielsen
 
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Damn ... that's insane. :eek:

I have to echo some opinions, here though.

I wouldn't hand any money over to someone who I thought was shady enough to validate sending MindArk a pre-emptive "I might be getting scammed" e-mail. :wise:

I also wouldn't lend $8,000 to anyone online without them giving me the deed to something valuable .. say .. their testicles. :ahh:

Final thought : it just sucks all around and I hope MA stops "X" from withdrawing that $.

My best wishes go out to Hopkirk in getting his $ back. :(
 
dbelinfante said:
Because X has a somewhat checkered past, Hopkirk alerted MA support that he was about to enter a deal with this person. He specifically told them that he would call upon them if the deal went sour.
Click to expand...

and? did MA say (before the deal) "whatever will be the outcome, thanks for informing us and we guarantee you will not loose any ped" :confused:

will informing the police the day before i go to some fairry market prevent my wallet from being stolen?

sorry for h's loss but i don't see what's MA has to do with this.
 
~CHOPPER~ said:
Chat logs....
Click to expand...

How chat log can show if i sold you my car for ped or not ?

Its not because X say "loan" that Y must be a scamer...

And its seems here , most blabla took place on MSN , so how MA know ?


Come down to real...

Its not to MA to decide who own 800^$ , its police and court ...
Thats why we have them ...

And personally , i would no like that the first MA monkey support say , who own what is on my avatar ...
Or tomorow , i bet , 1 thousen asshole will report me as scammer or dunno what to get stuff from my avatar ...
 
grrrrrr

Laws and rules exist to help society - there not in place to protect people who cleverly steal from other members of Society with the sole purpose of stealing..... If they are they should be changed......

There is a common law..... Right & wrong....

Sure - we don't know the details of this case, MA do....

Bad publicity is bad publicity, pure and Simple..

MA wont do anything about it..... Maybe the police will or the press will.

grrrrr
MoonFish
 
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Well, like most people said, until we know what sort of insurance this guy had from support, we can't really judge that MA can't just apply the "all trades are final" rule.

It sucks, but if you knew he had a shady past, you should have just waited and paid in a full installment of 80k peds.
 
Moonfish said:
Laws and rules exist to help society - there not inplace to protet people who cleverly steal from other members of Society with the sole purpose of stealing..... If they are they should be changed......

There is a common law..... Right & wrong....

Sure - we dont know the details of this case, MA do....

Bad publicity is bad publicity, pure and Simple..

MA wont do anything about it..... Maybe the police will or the press will.

grrrrr
MoonFish
Click to expand...

But MA is not against do something...
If police ask log , and all info they get it...
and if police ask for an avatar lock or something it is done...
and i bet if a judge say that the item should go back to X , then MA will put back item in X inventorie...
But it is not to MA to decide who is wright or wrong...
And who are you to say it anyway ?
how you know the OPsfriend is not a scamer , or dont rty to fuckup the reputation of someone else ?

So if tomorow , random joe come , make a post about that i scamed him 100 000 ped , i should be lock , my avatar empty , and all comunauty will hate me ?
 
hmmm, maybe like when you write a check, you can note what it was for. Write a line of what it was for, "payment for imp fap, to be recieved with in 10 days" Really the bank system should just go. We all need to be able to loan/rent stuff to each other with some form of insurance.

Theres no doubt that there is a scam taking place and therefor MA's should be obligated to investagate free of charge on behalf of both parties. MA worrying about deals done in rl is out of their scope and even though it is done it should not be, just 80kped transaction and nothing said in game? That should raise some red flags of laundrying and fraud right there. I dont know either way but I really think they should do whatever they can instead of just turning the blind eye to this.

They also should shit can the phrase "all transactions are final" because we know thats a lie.
 
The guys is screwed, agreed. NEVER give out anything unless you absolutely trust someone...and even then, I wouldn't do it for $8,000 even if it was my own brother! It's hard to argue a case with MA on this, they are covering their own interest. Imagine MA decides to do something, and they approach "X", X may have his own version of the story and why he was given $8,000, now who would you believe? You can't pick sides in this, and MA is not a judge or jury, hence, "All trades are final".
All may not be lost, though. There is a way to track by phone numbers who is who and where. If you're in the same country, you have RL case against them...get the law involved....another country? Yikes, Interpol? Don't know if it's worth their time for $8000.
Or you can just give us the in game name of X and the whole EF community will know and his rep will be damaged, who knows?
 
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Maybe should of asked for a screenshot of the Bank loan deed too? That woulda scuppered them from the get go.

Jamhot
 
1. There was no chat log of this? I mean they didn't agree ingame about it? I can see why MA don't take heed to msn chat logs, but I'm interested in what was said ingame, where MA can see for themselves what was said.

2. You're going to MA with this? I don't know what country your friend lives in, but for the love of god go to the police. This is internet fraud. Swedish law for example is rather strict when it comes to the internet - you're responsible for everything you do and write (if I say "I'll f'ing kill you" to someone in a PM here, that's just as much a death-threat as if I went up to them and said it IRL - at least, that's the theory.) :rolleyes:

About Mindark? Well their answer is expected. They've held to that policy for years. Has he tried by-passing the text support? :confused:
 
Moonfish said:
There is a common law..... Right & wrong....
Click to expand...

right and wrong can be easily blurred by differing belief systems.

every action has an equal and opposite reaction would be a more appropriate "common law".
 
TheLastKnight said:
Or you can just give us the in game name of X and the whole EF community will know and his rep will be damaged, who knows?
Click to expand...

against forum rules :wise:
 
TheLastKnight said:
Or you can just give us the in game name of X and the whole EF community will know and his rep will be damaged, who knows?
Click to expand...

ER exists for a reason (to slander, guilty or not). ;)
 
if i m not wrong that genius of Marco tell us that : MA want be a safe and stable platform for the future investors.

this is classical example of how MA works.
very
compliment

(and now i will get another message from Bertha???????)
 
Etopia said:
Up to you friend to call police...
From what i know the suposed scammer is swedish , so it will be fast to get MA solve problem if there is problem...
Click to expand...

maybe i understand what u mean;)
but
just to be sure
can u better explain your sentence?
thx
 
chielsen said:
I seriously don't get you. You say everybody gets pissed if MA starts to investugate this case and not theirs.
Then i say, let MA ask a fee for doing that. Of course work is needed to track down the money, but MA has proven they have the tools for that.
Click to expand...
They can investigate as long as they see fit; and I think usually the scammer is locked and "under investigation" for an undetermined period of time
Track down the money? Put it simply, If we consider a lootpool and 4 people swimming in it, say the scammer dumps 8k USD in it; if each "swimmer" gets a chunk of the 8k USD through numerous loots, you'll have a tough way to 1/ determine how much they owe 2/take it from them

Now imagine that figure with several thousands swimmers;
this is beyond herculean scale :laugh:; and at no point MA will lock a lambda hunter and withdraw x PEDs from his account in order to refund "his part" of the robbery

I do not believe that a scammers is going to gamble away his newly acquired money. They will try to get it to 2nd (or nth) avatars, withdraw or just keep on the pedcard.
Click to expand...

I'm interested to know up to what point their "tools" work
But if scammers can't get the money back, the next thing that comes to mind is pouring it having some fun in the process.

If the money sits in the account, this is another matter...
Yet you can't establish facts :(
 
dbelinfante said:
The story in short:[...]thinks of this.
Click to expand...

this is not a scam, this is a swindle.
your friend should call the right police services in your country
then these ones will ask the thing to mindark and i think it would be fast
 
steffel said:
and? did MA say (before the deal) "whatever will be the outcome, thanks for informing us and we guarantee you will not loose any ped" :confused:

will informing the police the day before i go to some fairry market prevent my wallet from being stolen?

sorry for h's loss but i don't see what's MA has to do with this.
Click to expand...

well, u will never have any problems in EU for sure
good for u
 
Mkdesign said:
They can investigate as long as they see fit; and I think usually the scammer is locked and "under investigation" for an undetermined period of time
Track down the money? Put it simply, If we consider a lootpool and 4 people swimming in it, say the scammer dumps 8k USD in it; if each "swimmer" gets a chunk of the 8k USD through numerous loots, you'll have a tough way to 1/ determine how much they owe 2/take it from them

Now imagine that figure with several thousands swimmers;
this is beyond herculean scale :laugh:; and at no point MA will lock a lambda hunter and withdraw x PEDs from his account in order to refund "his part" of the robbery



I'm interested to know up to what point their "tools" work
But if scammers can't get the money back, the next thing that comes to mind is pouring it having some fun in the process.

If the money sits in the account, this is another matter...
Yet you can't establish facts :(
Click to expand...

If the scammer is locked he can do nothing.
If you have just stolen 8k bucks of somebody you are not going to make a nice fire with it. How can you loose 80.000 ped TT value ingame?
Autofire some big ass gun in thin air? Really that's all very hard to believe but can be possible.
Only thing i can think of is just dropping stacks of peds in PA, just because you hated the scammee.
 
chat logs mean sweet fa. nothing to stop a couple of people engineering a chat log to try and scam MA. they've chosen to default to assume zero responsibilty, and we all know that. its a shitter, but why on earth did hopkirk go through with it?
 
Wow that horrible huge money to me that would pay all my debts.

Thinking about loose that kind of money makes my tummy hurt.
 
chielsen said:
How can you loose 80.000 ped TT value ingame?
Click to expand...

Dunno, click some high level costy blueprint that you don't have SIB on, set auctions with buyouts lower than TT value...
There are hundreds of ways to lose money fast when you get to think about it :laugh:

too bad the opposite isn't true ;p
 
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