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News: Mini Mayhem - Crystal Palace

NevadaJake said:
This week:

18U6lh4.png
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I can confirm, my payout screen is also stating a payout of 32 pecs per share! (same as above). That's a bit of a wow result, don't you think? :yay:
 
CPSS - 32 pec per share is pretty brutal :)
 
jetsina said:
I can confirm, my payout screen is also stating a payout of 32 pecs per share! (same as above). That's a bit of a wow result, don't you think? :yay:
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This is kinda confusing me, from what i remember this is 3-5x the payout of NTI deeds at launch with the launch hype and people hunting dasps and all sorts. What's the difference in total share count between the two? Just seems, a tad different tham expected, even considering AG shares and moloch depths, the payout here seems disproportionately larger than id have expected.
 
the cp shares are designed with a 4.5% tax model..where ag and NTI ones arent
 
Nanashana said:
This is kinda confusing me,
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My thought process was to compare it to itself first, namely something like 30x normal payout compacted into just 4-ish days of last week of higher activity. The EL charts for aurli and krelt do indeed show that kind of average boost in activity though, so there is consistency to it.

Compared to other areas, there is not much visible activity anywhere as far as I can see. AG payouts appear to come overwhelmingly from Molochs, which can be "seen" in the form of tracker and in-game globals, although gorgon activity is also chugging along.

Thus, a sudden boost to dome activity can indeed be of such a magnitude and have such a nice effect it appears!

NB: I dunno the absolute structures of nr. of shares etc. off the top of my head. I decided the other stats were consistent enough for me.
 
Nanashana said:
This is kinda confusing me, from what i remember this is 3-5x the payout of NTI deeds at launch with the launch hype and people hunting dasps and all sorts. What's the difference in total share count between the two? Just seems, a tad different tham expected, even considering AG shares and moloch depths, the payout here seems disproportionately larger than id have expected.
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MA just trolling with Forgo, they just showed that LA TAX rate is much much more than any hidden or not hidden TAX / revenue of any planet or PP or NTI or anything else.
 
jetsina said:
My thought process was to compare it to itself first, namely something like 30x normal payout compacted into just 4-ish days of last week of higher activity. The EL charts for aurli and krelt do indeed show that kind of average boost in activity though, so there is consistency to it.

Compared to other areas, there is not much visible activity anywhere as far as I can see. AG payouts appear to come overwhelmingly from Molochs, which can be "seen" in the form of tracker and in-game globals, although gorgon activity is also chugging along.

Thus, a sudden boost to dome activity can indeed be of such a magnitude and have such a nice effect it appears!

NB: I dunno the absolute structures of nr. of shares etc. off the top of my head. I decided the other stats were consistent enough for me.
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Dug a little into the numbers, while its somewhat relative looking at globals instead of actual peds cycled:

Average Weekly Loot (globals) for CP: 34k ped
4 Day weekly loot (globals) for CP during the event: 950k ped

So a 30-something multiplier on deeds seems plausible. Another interesting way to look at this is that with 500k total shares in circulation, 4 days of hunting generated a total of 160k total ped in tax. This indicates there was a grand total of 3.2m ped cycled in 4 days for this event (the equivalent of around 40 ubers of ped per day).

Veering offtopic, but I think more interestingly (as it answers my original question in case anyone also wonders the same thing):

AG shares: 400k
CP shares: 500k

950k ped in CP over the event week.
280k ped average weekly globals for moloch.
(I know this is apples for oranges as Moloch has a much higher hp pool so these will skew to more globals over a smaller cycle, but its also discounting _all_ of the gorgon wave and every other AG mob that exists).

That's only a 3-4x difference, so why aren't we seeing ~0.04-0.08pec weekly AG payouts?

Remembering back, there was a statement that all 'non-taxed' Land Areas, i.e. Calypso, PP areas, generate revenue from Decay only. So that accounts for why both AG and NI revenues are so small in comparison to their turnovers, as they get taxed on a different model. (And a weird note is that someone hunting naked with a gun such as a mod merc will generate 0 revenue for a planet partner under this revenue share, as shrapnel conversion is counted against revenue on these locations also).
 
Nanashana said:
Dug a little into the numbers, while its somewhat relative looking at globals instead of actual peds cycled:

Average Weekly Loot (globals) for CP: 34k ped
4 Day weekly loot (globals) for CP during the event: 950k ped

So a 30-something multiplier on deeds seems plausible. Another interesting way to look at this is that with 500k total shares in circulation, 4 days of hunting generated a total of 160k total ped in tax. This indicates there was a grand total of 3.2m ped cycled in 4 days for this event (the equivalent of around 40 ubers of ped per day).

Veering offtopic, but I think more interestingly (as it answers my original question in case anyone also wonders the same thing):

AG shares: 400k
CP shares: 500k

950k ped in CP over the event week.
280k ped average weekly globals for moloch.
(I know this is apples for oranges as Moloch has a much higher hp pool so these will skew to more globals over a smaller cycle, but its also discounting _all_ of the gorgon wave and every other AG mob that exists).

That's only a 3-4x difference, so why aren't we seeing ~0.04-0.08pec weekly AG payouts?

Remembering back, there was a statement that all 'non-taxed' Land Areas, i.e. Calypso, PP areas, generate revenue from Decay only. So that accounts for why both AG and NI revenues are so small in comparison to their turnovers, as they get taxed on a different model. (And a weird note is that someone hunting naked with a gun such as a mod merc will generate 0 revenue for a planet partner under this revenue share, as shrapnel conversion is counted against revenue on these locations also).
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Well if AG had a tax of 4.5% that are going straight to shares, it would be a way different story. This just proves that @forgo and his claims that everything has hidden tax are wrong.

It would be nice if some MindArk employee steps in here and STOP rumors for good. Tell us how those shares generate revenue, it's not like it should be some business secret or something.
 
Nanashana said:
This is kinda confusing me, from what i remember this is 3-5x the payout of NTI deeds at launch with the launch hype and people hunting dasps and all sorts. What's the difference in total share count between the two? Just seems, a tad different tham expected, even considering AG shares and moloch depths, the payout here seems disproportionately larger than id have expected.
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Sources of payout is different.

AG and NTI are half of planet partner take of revenues. (Players do not notice a difference)

CP/AUD is tax... (Players notice a difference)

However you slice it, half of planet partner take is a smaller percent (revenue has to be split between MA/PP/Origin PP/deeds) than the taxes placed on the other areas...but players don't take a hit to their returns so they are more likely to not feel they need to avoid hunting on AG or NTI.
 
Yes to Jhereg (saves me typing approx. the same) ;) The story is also about chasing mus, however, or perceived value of tokens in own-use.
The last time I looted an ESI was not too long ago on about a lvl30 mob not on Caly. Was about a 30 pedder, but on something like 30k peds turnover or so assumed dry patch, that's about 1% to add as mu to my tt-return rate from that (same as shrap).
If taxed lands have much higher ESI rates, maybe it's a thing, as they say in the US. Calculations on token returns do not suggest that these alone in a mini-mayhem actually help much if the area is taxed.
So ty for the extra boost to share payouts - my guess is MA could be more generous on the "what currently has mu" side, though.
 
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Overall it was a fun event. Once boxes are in loot it will be worth it. Unfortunately I lost about 1k ped and net around 200 M tokens. I didn't get any big hofs but maybe i'll have better luck next time!
 
Nanashana said:
This is kinda confusing me, from what i remember this is 3-5x the payout of NTI deeds at launch with the launch hype and people hunting dasps and all sorts.
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It's the reason other shares are bad. "planet profit" or "non taxed profit" is just terrible compared to taxes. Goes to show that tax matter.


Sux people didnt like mini mayhem but I feel many bicker too much. If someone needed to do the mission there, already hunt there or had any interest with the place. The tokens are just extra and the tax was gonna be there anyway. Friend of mine got a hof near 5000p and got later a ul supremacy foot. Seem it went well to some and Im sure he aint the only one.
 
halftoasted said:
It's the reason other shares are bad. "planet profit" or "non taxed profit" is just terrible compared to taxes. Goes to show that tax matter.


Sux people didnt like mini mayhem but I feel many bicker too much. If someone needed to do the mission there, already hunt there or had any interest with the place. The tokens are just extra and the tax was gonna be there anyway. Friend of mine got a hof near 5000p and got later a ul supremacy foot. Seem it went well to some and Im sure he aint the only one.
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You won't find me hunting anywhere with LA tax rate basically in all circumstances. The thought is if MA artificially inflated MU in a LA to cover cost of land area tax, that's why a player might hunt there. But that's basically just feeding LA owners. In some sense that's what nanites in AUDs were. But it isn't sustainable long term, because you'd have to keep adding more and more things to sustain it...
 
Nanashana said:
Dug a little into the numbers, while its somewhat relative looking at globals instead of actual peds cycled:

Average Weekly Loot (globals) for CP: 34k ped
4 Day weekly loot (globals) for CP during the event: 950k ped

So a 30-something multiplier on deeds seems plausible. Another interesting way to look at this is that with 500k total shares in circulation, 4 days of hunting generated a total of 160k total ped in tax. This indicates there was a grand total of 3.2m ped cycled in 4 days for this event (the equivalent of around 40 ubers of ped per day).

Veering offtopic, but I think more interestingly (as it answers my original question in case anyone also wonders the same thing):

AG shares: 400k
CP shares: 500k

950k ped in CP over the event week.
280k ped average weekly globals for moloch.
(I know this is apples for oranges as Moloch has a much higher hp pool so these will skew to more globals over a smaller cycle, but its also discounting _all_ of the gorgon wave and every other AG mob that exists).

That's only a 3-4x difference, so why aren't we seeing ~0.04-0.08pec weekly AG payouts?

Remembering back, there was a statement that all 'non-taxed' Land Areas, i.e. Calypso, PP areas, generate revenue from Decay only. So that accounts for why both AG and NI revenues are so small in comparison to their turnovers, as they get taxed on a different model. (And a weird note is that someone hunting naked with a gun such as a mod merc will generate 0 revenue for a planet partner under this revenue share, as shrapnel conversion is counted against revenue on these locations also).
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CP is TAX, straight from your loot, 5%, easy to calculate with it.

NTI, PP, AG shares are PP revenue.
We dont know exactly how much is that, how it works, but you can find some info in old threads, one says the revenue after you goes 50% to MA, 50% to PP.
Other thread says 50% to MA, 25% to PP you were born on, 25% to PP where you are playing.
Ofc no guarantee if any of those infos are real, but makes some sense to be honest.

For example AG or NTI shares, if 50-50% split, they pay out 50% of the 50% PP revenue, but if 50-25-25% apply, they just pay out 50% of 25% PP revenue, as you cant really be AG born nor NTI born, just NI and Caly born.

But its sure PP revenue is much less than 5% TAX, and shares may just pay out 50% of 50% = 25% or 50% of 25% = 12.5% of that much less revenue.
That is why the huge CP payout compared to other shares with similar or even more turnover / global ammount.
 
Going to chime in here and say that even as a LA owner I do not like the current tax structure. I believe when they rolled out 2.0 they should have re-evaluated how lands generate income. Taxing people on a fixed income if that is how 2.0 switched things up isn't a great idea. Hopefully some good Markup changes happen, they give land owners more specific loot or control of their lands revenue flow.
 
Despite ppl claim fancy theories, MA in his usual Bizantine ad obfuscated way explained it already

Base data: cost to kill

First layer: tax on game activity : i take it as a whole i dont care of what i get(2.0 data) : 2% (players get 98%)

Second Layer: 4.5% CP tax player get 98 x(1-4.5%) = 93.59% (TAX IS TAKEN OFF LOOT, NOT OFF COST TO KILL stated MA)

Thisis pretty simple then

NTI is subject only to 2% cost to game
CP is subject to 6.41% cost to game

Forgo can keep his theories, but reality is explained very clearly in usual MA deciving language for statements

So CP event was a nice 0.32 * 500.000 = 160.000 payoff taken from that extra 4.5%
the part that i dotn know (did nto read the CP shares prospectus if any if teh rebate to owners is 100% of income
inc ase it is... easy to spot 160.000 / 0.045 = 3.555.555 ped cycled in the event.
being in a normal zone the TT loss of 160.000 = 160.000 * 2/4.5 = 71.000 ped so.... 89.000 Extra TT Loss in the event comapred to a normal event.

(i really doubt that the full 100% is returned to shareholders tso ped cycled and tt losses mught be higher, this is a floor)
 
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David Joker Potanus said:
as a LA owner I do not like the current tax structure. I believe when they rolled out 2.0 they should have re-evaluated how lands generate income. Taxing people on a fixed income if that is how 2.0 switched things up isn't a great idea. Hopefully some good Markup changes happen, they give land owners more specific loot or control of their lands revenue flow.
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SImple thing:
on calyupso the convenience for hunters if any is the density of spawn and the maturity they prefer and some cumbersome rebate on HSL or most loot (all favour higher DPS ppl so are all useless to "average joe" if not for marginal potential
LA Owners have jsut to pay fertilizer and must invest weird mechanism, would be easy to just add "LAxx" tokens dropped by animals and collect "dedication rewards" on volume of kills
or add a "area XX Codex" that reward in term of skills for killing in a specific zone.
adding a prize on a alreagy gottenb global is the most "compounded randomization" that i can imagine
LA structure is primitive.
on the other side, we have AU that taxes the viceroy armor dropping nanites just in the taxed land so after 14 drops you can recoup some taxes selling the special item
but on Caly LA the drops are the same as per common creatures so it is just about spawns that are too small in all the planet for 2022 DPS of hunters
 
what tt lose you have on this mini ?
 
i tried to drop a bomb there but can't
why i no can mine there? i lke mining mayhems
 
i m down 4k after the success of this taxed mM, and i can share one thing that is my last time i hunt on taxed LA/Event, i dont care the prize, like literally i dont give a shit what is, the dynamic of game wont guarantee anyone that after the event can squeeze something out of it.

i wont finish my codex on krelt even if is a next event there, dont care anymore,

if a player does 4k loss/ 30 h of hunt then the math beats any prize ahead

and f this is the end of mM , so be it, i let others to pay taxes,

:banana:
 
tBANNA said:
i m down 4k after the success of this taxed mM, and i can share one thing that is my last time i hunt on taxed LA/Event, i dont care the prize, like literally i dont give a shit what is, the dynamic of game wont guarantee anyone that after the event can squeeze something out of it.

i wont finish my codex on krelt even if is a next event there, dont care anymore,

if a player does 4k loss/ 30 h of hunt then the math beats any prize ahead

and f this is the end of mM , so be it, i let others to pay taxes,

:banana:
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4k $ or 4k ped?

I mean, 4k ped in 30 hours is quite your average in Entropia for a 30 hour hunt.
Just over 10$ per hour is quite "normal".

But for that you get tons of fun, excitement., variation and don't forget an awesome story line! (y)
 
wizz said:
4k $ or 4k ped?

I mean, 4k ped in 30 hours is quite your average in Entropia for a 30 hour hunt.
Just over 10$ per hour is quite "normal".

But for that you get tons of fun, excitement., variation and don't forget an awesome story line! (y)
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Depends on your level and gear I guess...

I'm sitting at just under 98% TT return with my looter and efficiency now. So I'm certainly not paying 10 dollars an hour to play.
 
tBANNA said:
i m down 4k after the success of this taxed mM, and i can share one thing that is my last time i hunt on taxed LA/Event, i dont care the prize, like literally i dont give a shit what is, the dynamic of game wont guarantee anyone that after the event can squeeze something out of it.

i wont finish my codex on krelt even if is a next event there, dont care anymore,

if a player does 4k loss/ 30 h of hunt then the math beats any prize ahead

and f this is the end of mM , so be it, i let others to pay taxes,

:banana:
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Maybe the funny theories of tax will be dead now that so many see that 4-5%of their loot on top of the normal losses goes to tax and deed holders :) it ain't 5% fun to hunt aurli :p
 
minim said:
Maybe the funny theories of tax will be dead now that so many see that 4-5%of their loot on top of the normal losses goes to tax and deed holders :) it ain't 5% fun to hunt aurli :p
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Pretty sure forgo is the only person clinging on to this idea as his income depends on it.
 
minim said:
Maybe the funny theories of tax will be dead now that so many see that 4-5%of their loot on top of the normal losses goes to tax and deed holders :) it ain't 5% fun to hunt aurli :p
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for some is maybe a catch to drop theories like this one, i figured out pretty easy and harsh in the same way when i did tamed 9 dhampyres and the 5% tax was always in the final calculus, the tax is a price a player is willing to pay to get something out from a LA , has nothing to do with the return, is a separate payment

10k werewolf needed to summon the dhampyre on 5% taxed land
10k werewolfs outside the taxed LA
=> are not the same ( tests were really conclusive )
 
the event was probably one of the more legit events i’ve witnessed. short and sweet. yea i wish i could farm more tokens but at least it was fair compared to other events where ppl with multiple accounts got to farm tokens and be AFK for entire event leeching off of legit players. i hope MA does more of their events outside of instances. i really like most of the instance events but ppl exploited a lot and that ruined the fun for us all.
 
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