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Mining finder radius fake

Nick Co0Lio said:
So, you saying even closer than 22m for these clusters?
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Yes if you doubled drop from first claim and got 2 second claim and droped from second claim to get third one etc kinda how it went. I never seen anything like it indoors and defo wouldn't do it amped up you be barking mad to do it.
 
slick27 said:
Yes if you doubled drop from first claim and got 2 second claim and droped from second claim to get third one etc kinda how it went. I never seen anything like it indoors and defo wouldn't do it amped up you be barking mad to do it.
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I know some miners who have tried to beat the indoor mining system by testing different radius and eventually they went broke. Indoor mining is a totaly different beast.
 
Jade Draconis said:
I know some miners who have tried to beat the indoor mining system by testing different radius and eventually they went broke. Indoor mining is a totaly different beast.
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I did it completely different I limited myself ped wise per arena if it was going south I moved on to another.

Their is things that change on indoor for instance claim sizes even though I was using same finder. Sometimes you get loads ample sometimes it's only sizeable and others large only but ofc fewer off them the larger they went.

Could go on but the killer was the respawn rate tied to the claim size I was at unamped. I know this because after 4 or 5 days certain things stopped dropping unamped so I tried an amp to see if bigger claim size would spawn these resources what ya know straight away. Either amps have a different mapping or I was hitting bigger claim sizes which I haven't before and got those resources. Pure speculation this one but fairly certain.

TT wise indoor was fine apart from foma I don't get that place.
 
So I've given then this a go for a solid week now. All planetside using eMine FS, which has a range of 54m, set to 27m on LBML. Even mixed a few Lvl3 and Lvl2 amps. Returns are the same as if I was using 54m. It's honestly pretty hilarious to see, after years of being to told always make sure your probes don't overlap.

A few take things I've noticed:

- It is extremely common for 4, 5 or 6 claims to be stacked almost on top of each other. It's almost like you open a small pool withing a set radius, and deplete it.

- This totally borks the hit rate on LBML. When a claim is found outside of the range you have set in the tool window, it does not register for the run. However, if you go back and count the claims, it is the typical 30 - 36% range. Does anyone know a work around for this, other than manually adding each find outside the set range?

The biggest thing for me is the efficiency. Runs that used to take 2 hours now take 30 - 45 mins. Also, this allows you to work in a more concentrated area where specific ores are located and lets you work more efficient in areas with mobs, as you can get more drops down within the limited area between their aggro range.

I'm glad you shared this. I thing it's great!
 
Krillzoo said:
So I've given then this a go for a solid week now. All planetside using eMine FS, which has a range of 54m, set to 27m on LBML. Even mixed a few Lvl3 and Lvl2 amps. Returns are the same as if I was using 54m. It's honestly pretty hilarious to see, after years of being to told always make sure your probes don't overlap.

A few take things I've noticed:

- It is extremely common for 4, 5 or 6 claims to be stacked almost on top of each other. It's almost like you open a small pool withing a set radius, and deplete it.

- This totally borks the hit rate on LBML. When a claim is found outside of the range you have set in the tool window, it does not register for the run. However, if you go back and count the claims, it is the typical 30 - 36% range. Does anyone know a work around for this, other than manually adding each find outside the set range?

The biggest thing for me is the efficiency. Runs that used to take 2 hours now take 30 - 45 mins. Also, this allows you to work in a more concentrated area where specific ores are located and lets you work more efficient in areas with mobs, as you can get more drops down within the limited area between their aggro range.

I'm glad you shared this. I thing it's great!
Click to expand...
Yep, ive had similar observations. i did a strict 40m distance after each drop, no matter how close my finds were. the results were astonishing. and ive cycled a good 50k ped doing this so its not just a few runs. Though i dont use lblm, i keep mental note of my hitrate on each run which is usualy 2K-5k ped cycled per run. I think as more and more miners( Not Gamblers) experiment and track data, we may end up finding things currently unnoticed.
 
@Nick Co0Lio What are your expectations for how the radius part works?

Let's say you stand still and drop a probe and find enmatter 10m away and ore 30m away in that drop.
If you don't move and drop again, what possible actions do you think might occur?
 
Nick Co0Lio said:
I do agree that CLAIM proximity seems to be KEY. The closer 2 claims are the more density around that place! Anybody want to add anything on this point?
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It's a valid point/hypothesis and one worth trying. The closer the claim to your avatar, the better chances you'll hit something extra.
 
Any chance anyone who double drops or finds clusters can keep track claim sizes within a cluster preferably ped wise? Iv seen few samples that biggest claim ped wise first followed by smaller ones but I haven't extensively tested it tbh.
 
Mining patch incoming in 3...2...1
 
I think there is no 'minerals in the ground waiting to be discovered', but that mining works the same way as hunting does: the moment you drop the bomb, a multiplier and loot type is generated based on the peds spent, your efficiency, etc. Also based on mathematical probabilities, market caps etc.

And the position of the claim is randomly put within your finders' radius .

Vains or multiple claims may have to do more with lootwaves, then something that is hidden in the soil.
 
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Naomi said:
I think there is no 'minerals in the ground waiting to be discovered', but that mining works the same way as hunting does: the moment you drop the bomb, a multiplier and loot type is generated based on the peds spent, your efficiency, etc. Also based on mathematical probabilities, market caps etc.

And the position of the claim is randomly put within your finders' radius .

Vains or multiple claims may have to do more with lootwaves, then something that is hidden in the soil.
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what i dont get about market caps is that some stuff, Lumis for example was thought to be capped for a long time, or at least the miners i know had the same idea. last month someone hoffed 236 ped on Lumis. Now im curious how do we test which ores are capped and which arnt. been thinking about the depth being a factor🤔
 
Jade Draconis said:
Now im curious how do we test which ores are capped and which
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It's dynamic. Read the AMA replies.

Our policy is to not comment on loot mechanics.

What we can say is that the supply of resources and items is dynamic and varies over time, and this includes quite long time horizons.
Click to expand...
 
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Naomi said:
I think there is no 'minerals in the ground waiting to be discovered', but that mining works the same way as hunting does: the moment you drop the bomb, a multiplier and loot type is generated based on the peds spent, your efficiency, etc. Also based on mathematical probabilities, market caps etc.

And the position of the claim is randomly put within your finders' radius .

Vains or multiple claims may have to do more with lootwaves, then something that is hidden in the soil.
Click to expand...
Thing I don't get with your claim not saying it's wrong or anything but how is it theirs particular sweet spots certain places. I tried even eliminate the first drop on server to make sure it isn't pay back from loss from another. Also these particular places are very tight and small areas which spawn certain lucrative resources and don't spawn anywhere else that I found on the server.
 
Jade Draconis said:
Yep, ive had similar observations. i did a strict 40m distance after each drop, no matter how close my finds were.
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I think that's where some of the confusion is coming in that led to the title of this post. You're not going to be overlapping as much when you first get a claim because only the area up to the claim was searched. That's why LBML is set up the way it is to account for that after a find to show you how far you need to go instead. That at least seems to be part of the picture here that people weren't doing this and instead were thinking they needed to run a full 110m between drops all the time regardless of claim found or not.

If someone really wants to test overlapping with that distance, it would just be two treatments to track:

1. Drop probe and track claims found in a 55m radius for an unmined area (or adjust for whatever your finder radius is).
1a. If you find a claim, do not move and keep dropping until your drop radius is cleared. Don't count these finds in the recording for either treatment.
2. Run 40m and drop again both recording when claims are found and if they are in the overlapped area
3. Run radius*2 (110m for most) and go back to 1.

Basically something like this below repeated maybe at least with 30 drops per treatment for a start. 0 = No, 1 = Yes. I just threw in TT since people will always ask if it varied too. Also make sure to finish each set of 1-2 in a relatively quick amount of time to keep things standardized to avoid biasing the overlap results. Probably best to stick to one resource type to avoid juggling.
Drop typeClaim foundTTClaim in overlap
Natural
0​
2​
-
Overlap
0​
3​
0​
Natural
1​
3.5​
-
Overlap
1​
2.5​
1​

That would at least give data that would be analyzable (long-term logs can't be set up to compare this statistically). Easy things would to be compare HR between the two groups, but you could also look at how often a claim shows up in the overlapping area too for some supplemental data. If it's similar as all the previous testing (no reason to think it's changed either based on more recent data), HR should be lower in the overlap group. If someone wanted to really force the effect for testing, they'd set an even shorter distance for step 2.
 
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slick27 said:
Thing I don't get with your claim not saying it's wrong or anything but how is it theirs particular sweet spots certain places. I tried even eliminate the first drop on server to make sure it isn't pay back from loss from another. Also these particular places are very tight and small areas which spawn certain lucrative resources and don't spawn anywhere else that I found on the server.
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perhaps it can still be compared to mobs:
certain small mobs areas or spawns, loot items that others don't, or rarely do
 
Naomi said:
perhaps it can still be compared to mobs:
certain small mobs areas or spawns, loot items that others don't, or rarely do
Click to expand...
Maybe I just find it odd that particular areas in monria for instance (I went round their a few weeks) seems strong in hit rate around areas I know miners drop their probes but don't want to venture in because mobs. At first I thought as I said previously it was because I was on another server but it happens on way back and all.
 
I just want to say this... pi()<>3.1415. If this constant would be altered, the parameters of any circle would change ...
 
kingofaces said:
I think that's where some of the confusion is coming in that led to the title of this post. You're not going to be overlapping as much when you first get a claim because only the area up to the claim was searched. That's why LBML is set up the way it is to account for that after a find to show you how far you need to go instead. That at least seems to be part of the picture here that people weren't doing this and instead were thinking they needed to run a full 110m between drops all the time regardless of claim found or not.

If someone really wants to test overlapping with that distance, it would just be two treatments to track:

1. Drop probe and track claims found in a 55m radius for an unmined area (or adjust for whatever your finder radius is).
1a. If you find a claim, do not move and keep dropping until your drop radius is cleared. Don't count these finds in the recording for either treatment.
2. Run 40m and drop again both recording when claims are found and if they are in the overlapped area
3. Run radius*2 (110m for most) and go back to 1.

Basically something like this below repeated maybe at least with 30 drops per treatment for a start. 0 = No, 1 = Yes. I just threw in TT since people will always ask if it varied too. Also make sure to finish each set of 1-2 in a relatively quick amount of time to keep things standardized to avoid biasing the overlap results. Probably best to stick to one resource type to avoid juggling.
Drop typeClaim foundTTClaim in overlap
Natural
0​
2​
-
Overlap
0​
3​
0​
Natural
1​
3.5​
-
Overlap
1​
2.5​
1​

That would at least give data that would be analyzable (long-term logs can't be set up to compare this statistically). Easy things would to be compare HR between the two groups, but you could also look at how often a claim shows up in the overlapping area too for some supplemental data. If it's similar as all the previous testing (no reason to think it's changed either based on more recent data), HR should be lower in the overlap group. If someone wanted to really force the effect for testing, they'd set an even shorter distance for step 2.
Click to expand...
So this has happened to me on more than 1 occasion..

Drop probe, miss
move 55, drop probe, hit x meters BEHIND me, well within the range of the first probe.. Something is borked alright.

I think the game dynamically scales the matrix round the player..
 
JohnCapital said:
@Nick Co0Lio What are your expectations for how the radius part works?

Let's say you stand still and drop a probe and find enmatter 10m away and ore 30m away in that drop.
If you don't move and drop again, what possible actions do you think might occur?
Click to expand...
My hypothesis is: Range does matter up to a point. Standing still and keep dropping means lots of NRF. I tried the same with a small batch of 30 probes, but moving 2-3 meters between each drop (moving in one direction). ALL but one were NRF.

It's not time sensitive, since I can run and drop non-stop and get my 25ish % hit rate. So it must be range sensitive. Question is: Is it a logaritmic scale (e.g.1m drop range means 99% NRF, 10 meter means 80% NRF, 50 meter means 75% NRF, 110 meter means 73 % NRF) or just an on/off-button (0-10m = all NRF, 10+ is normal find rate)?
 
Katla said:
My hypothesis is: Range does matter up to a point. Standing still and keep dropping means lots of NRF. I tried the same with a small batch of 30 probes, but moving 2-3 meters between each drop (moving in one direction). ALL but one were NRF.

It's not time sensitive, since I can run and drop non-stop and get my 25ish % hit rate. So it must be range sensitive. Question is: Is it a logaritmic scale (e.g.1m drop range means 99% NRF, 10 meter means 80% NRF, 50 meter means 75% NRF, 110 meter means 73 % NRF) or just an on/off-button (0-10m = all NRF, 10+ is normal find rate)?
Click to expand...
I like exp(4) personally...
 
JohnCapital said:
@Nick Co0Lio What are your expectations for how the radius part works?

Let's say you stand still and drop a probe and find enmatter 10m away and ore 30m away in that drop.
If you don't move and drop again, what possible actions do you think might occur?
Click to expand...
Hey mate... Here's my take on it:

- Moving any number of meters can give a new outcome. I still think X areas are ACTIVE, others DORMANT, and time makes them go from one state to another. 2 days ago i bombed, MISS, moved 7m, GLOBAL.

- I insist again, finder range is fake due to the above, and because claim rods are MERE tools for MA to say 'finder scans X range', since the ROD can pop up within 55m from you, but you are BY NO MEANS scanning and finding stuff within the 110m circle. You are scanning within maybe 10-20m from yourself (FOMA is x2.5 times smaller range, i think this is the REAL range everywhere, but they needed to use this on FOMA due to reduced space to mine in the dome areas and such), no more, and claim rod is randomly popping up there... Nothing more. It's a means for you to obtain your resource.

- It's true that you could argue that MA could have made it so that what u find is IMMEDIATELY placed in inventory, but then MA wouldn't bleed you dry on extractor costs, or make you feel like you're a real miner (game experience), so yea... That's that!

OK, food for thought! IDEAS?
 
I mean, it could also just be someone did a "Range * 2", instead of a "range ** 2", or maybe they rewrote that part at some point and thought of the range as a diameter instead of radius and forgot a divide by 2 somewhere. I kinda doubt they did some fancy schmancy formula that juuzuuust needs to be figured out by us. If something is wierd with the finder rang right now, its prolly some typo somewhere in the code, no?
 
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R4tt3xx said:
So this has happened to me on more than 1 occasion..

Drop probe, miss
move 55, drop probe, hit x meters BEHIND me, well within the range of the first probe.. Something is borked alright.

I think the game dynamically scales the matrix round the player..
Click to expand...
Nothing borked with that. That would be like a hunter saying something is wrong because a mob spawns on top of them on occasion.

Either way, the framework is listed right there if someone wants to actually test that part of the mechanic.
 
Thark said:
I mean, it could also just be someone did a "Range * 2", instead of a "range ** 2", or maybe they rewrote that part at some point and thought of the range as a diameter instead of radius and forgot a divide by 2 somewhere. I kinda doubt they did some fancy schmancy formula that juuzuuust needs to be figured out by us. If something is wierd with the finder rang right now, its prolly some typo somewhere in the code, no?
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No... a multimillion dollar game with a REAL economy do not make mistakes...
 
Nick Co0Lio said:
2 days ago i bombed, MISS, moved 7m, GLOBAL.
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Perfect. Thank you. Follow up question:
Was the global within 55m of the Miss, or was it in the outer edge where your 2nd radius was outside the 1st?
 
Katla said:
I tried the same with a small batch of 30 probes, but moving 2-3 meters between each drop (moving in one direction). ALL but one were NRF.
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I've done this exact same test. However, 2 details you did not mention that I found interesting in mine:
  1. The hit was outside of the previous NRF ranges, I.E. >55m away from previous bad drops
  2. The claim I hit was essentially large enough to cover the "loss" of a too high miss rate. Perhaps was just lucky, I :dunno:
 
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