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Suggestion: Minning Scale problem

Vadio

Vadio

Alpha
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Mar 7, 2008
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637
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Jhan Delarea Freitas
As far everyone know hunters can cycle up 5k/h meanwhile same Miner cant do
Not in health ways why? going list here fews suggestion to fix(and if tihink bit why its happen)

1 introduce new finder that use high level rank that drop way more
Why yes?
New L finders (not UL) going make new way to consume resource wise and make miners that grind for high level get rewards , same as hunters do rigth now
you even can add new system on top that if you want but not nessecary since guys are busy with new engine...
Why not
Since i know fews tops miners above 70 that can be restrict and favoritism

2 - more high end amp with cheap materials to make
Why Yes....
Create new High End amps its one way increase cycle with all miners rank equal , why need using cheap materials? or make? otherwise its not health and become just more one amp to gamble off
Why not?
Probably just going screw even more markups since everyone can use

3 - somekind auto loot to claims.... imagine like backpack with drone swarm that consume oil passive and decay itself
Why yes
Stop and think how many time you spend extract? run around just drop and drones just collect for you or any other idea can cut half time most minning run
Why not
Can devaluate excav
*note if they make drones use you supplied excav can be open whole new market and serie

4 fix whole economy - that allow use most expensive amp like terra 6
Why yes...
Its long long overdue need overhaull between everything not only minning , rebalance depth , rebalance finders , increase craft tt returns , rebalance all new BP to make less depend residues
make residues can be refine from any material in game to diminish ammount useless stuff in game
Why not
to expensive and drastic changes can make peoples cry in corner

5 - introduce new indoors zone without tax
Why yes
New indoor without tax , flat terrain and no mobs be realy minning paradise indeed
Why not
Going screw monria owners , foma dome owners , Underground Deeds owners , Hell and Arkadia moon as you can see so many mad peoples

For me #1 is more fair and balanced option , #3 be kind dream #4 i know they not going do rigth now they are busy with new Engine.... and #5 not be fair with moon/ug/monria/hell/foma
 
I suggested new amps that has most of cost as ammo burn, could also have somekind of attachment to finder that converts decay into ammo burn from finder/amp. Could also increase rare find chance or something.
 
Vadio said:
3 - somekind auto loot to claims.... imagine like backpack with drone swarm that consume oil passive and decay itself
Why yes
Stop and think how many time you spend extract? run around just drop and drones just collect for you or any other idea can cut half time most minning run
Why not
Can devaluate excav
*note if they make drones use you supplied excav can be open whole new market and serie
Click to expand...

I always thought that actually making the deeds report the exact TT value and making them tradeable would work well. Meaning that Miner A could sell their claims to someone for less MU (or even TT in some cases), and the new buyer could then go and extract the deposits themselves. Also allowing a mechanism to TT and entire mineral deed to get the tt value of the resource (3900 ped of lyst isn't worth the time spent extracting as an example).
 
Nanashana said:

"I always thought that actually making the deeds report the exact TT value and making them tradeable would work well. Meaning that Miner A could sell their claims to someone for less MU (or even TT in some cases), and the new buyer could then go and extract the deposits themselves."

(y)

This would be an awesome feature if it gets implemented.
 
you solve mining scaling if you make drilling exponentially faster. there's enough UL 4+ amps in existence and lvl 7-8/dclass are really easy to craft.


if MA could find a way to make the time consumption of drilling resources go from 80% of the mining run to 40% or less i would probably quit hunting and go back to mining.

it shouldn't be faster for everyone though. so i'd recommend a new slew of rings that increase excavation speed by 30-50%, then fix excavator enhancers and give us a reason to tier excavators again, and lastly, an across the board increase to excavation speed of all excavators of 15-20%.

from there you could go for a new line of excavators (L) that have drilling speeds faster than mod exc, but with the eco of imp or better. don't make them UL though.
 
To OP:

I agree with point 3 and 4.

But would like you to expand on why its not possible to do it in a healthy way?
 
[deleted]
 
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This is what I would like to see..
A new class of finders, where you can place an array of probes and fire them off in a single "go" and possibly get multiple claimrods or larger ones for same materials found.
 
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morey said:
Maybe a simple way to implement is 1 click excavate. All the decay is applied as if you sat there drilling, but in 1 click instead.
Click to expand...

This alone would fix the issue of turnover or in a slightly complex way follow what rocket says above.

Not sure turnover is a good thing though as that would further reduce the markup of resources and unless we sort the consumption problem (via better L items) we will be working against our own interests if we go this route.
 
morey said:
Maybe a simple way to implement is 1 click excavate. All the decay is applied as if you sat there drilling, but in 1 click instead.
Click to expand...
can't have this be the case or resources would saturate the market. needs to be reserved for people using special rings and really juiced (L) excavators.
 
Rocket192 said:
can't have this be the case or resources would saturate the market. needs to be reserved for people using special rings and really juiced (L) excavators.
Click to expand...
to be fair just doubling the current excavating speed all across the board would be a simple way and not needing any extra juice as far as rings are concerned.

That said, some mining rings are sorely missed and am surprised MA have not really been creative as far as rings are concerned. So far only 1 christmas 2016 ring is there.
 
Correct me if i am mistaken but last time i was testing 15% reload works on finder but doesnt work on excavator? On top of that enhancers still dont work....if they would enable/fix those 2 problems they would speed up excavating 30-50% depending on tier of tool
 
I feel like finders need an overhaul pretty badly, so I agree with the first point being the most reasonable, New limited finders that have a better pre amp. Having higher pre amps as mining level increases would encourage leveling mining a lot more. This would hurt those who have UL finders a little bit since their finders would be less desirable, but as long as the markup of the new finders stabilized high enough, it wouldn't be a huge problem. The main markets it would hurt are dsec 30 and the terramaster series, but honestly both of those feel a bit outdated and much of the higher level terramaster series is only useable by a small number of players without an advantage that I believe is worth grinding a ton for. As far as excavating goes, it doesn't seem to add any value to gameplay. It's more of a meaningless chore. I think rebalancing the excavators current cost to do instant pickup and immediate decay hit would make sense. It would be hard to adjust well, but essentially try to balance the current cost and speed of the excavator to where it makes sense. For example, mod genesis is very fast, but inefficient, so it should be made much more efficient if the speed of drilling no longer matters. Take the speed and efficiency and normalize them to just have an efficiency stat and make it instant. This is just my two cents as someone who can't stand mining just because of drilling and not being able to turn over enough ped for it to feel worthwhile without shilling out a markup that makes the already boring profession turn into something that also bleeds money.
 
To OP again:

I only asked you to expand to better understand your reasoning. Im on same boat as you.

I believe we have enough finders for now. Only a DSEC that goes to 1000m is missing. But as someone pointed, what are those finderes really good for that a 800mts wont do in the current state of the game. Cycling for the name of cycling ped will just lead to over supply of resources. And in the grand scale of the playerpool we have I doubt more than 10%, maybe less of the playerbase is capable of using your setup BR wise.

Excavation being a bore is indeed an issue. All in all I think we would be happy with enhancers working correctly for now. That would do a big difference already.

But your main point is that you are feeling as bored as I am mining, cause you feel its a ped drain in the long run or at best a small profit. And this coming from a lvl100 prospector as you are. Think about someone with half your skill levels asking same questions and the results they wil get.

Let me ask you a couple questions to see if we get to some conclusions:

1- Would you prefer the old system, loot 1.0 or the new 2.0 loot system as far as mining is concerned?

In loot 1.0 its true you could get into even deeper wholes to get out off, pay more for an amp but av. MU of an area could go as high as 130% and towers of 150%MU resources were possible

loot 2.0 jackpot is capped, loot has less variance true but any tower usually as an av.MU of 102%/108%.

What would you prefer to play?

2- You ask for cheap residue. Please answer me:

a.- Do you produce your own residue or buy it? And what is the cost of producing that residue?
b.- Do you expect someone to produce residue for you at a loss just so you have cheap residue?

Fixing the economy and some BPs to actually use resources is the key to scaling mining again. No resource drainage, no point in mining. Thats why I stopped as soon as I hit lvl 50 prosp (again, had chipped out when i stopped in 2014).

Simple reasoning tell me its not even fair to enter such a game where some BPs bypass the work of the miners to produce the cheap residue you are looking for. And actually mining for half a year showed me exactly what you are experiencing and realizing. That its boring as hell to excavate that much oil and lyst and in the end you are running around hoping to barely breakeven. But with no hope to really win.

Its not strange people are doing mayhem instead of their professions in game.
 
So to answer my questions:

You prefer grinding in loot 2.0
and
You do expect people to craft residue at a loss so you can break even

Can you at least tell me the break even cost to craft residue?
 
I will just answer you point by point:

-The residue is there to make items affordable, either residue cost 102% or 107%.

-There is no need to have gamblers if the economy is fixed. IF the economy needs residue you click if it doesnt you dont.

-That idea to refine to residue everything crossed my mind already, but it was scratched soon. That would cancel the need for "gamblers"/EPs crafting and a good source of revenue for MA, as well as many roads that could be opened in resource cycling through crafting.

-My last point is that im bothered by your affirmation:

And who going lose? if you study one twitch guy called trainwreckstv he stream alot slots you going know behavior of gamble
they not care , they just want shinning x and teases in fact this kind boys if mindark can sneak at gamble regulation be huge huge huge
for our universe

I am grinder.... i come work hard for my loot everday... however i respect who want gamble off

These two statements are highly hipocritical.

It seems to me you demand for gamblers to craft cheap residue for you, so you can buy cheap amps to profit from mining. But not even 2 weeks after a VU you are complaining already cause your old math aint working anymore.

And you only respect gamblers IF they serve your interests...
 
Ivo Jahrumble said:
-That idea to refine to residue everything crossed my mind already, but it was scratched soon. That would cancel the need for "gamblers"/EPs crafting and a good source of revenue for MA, as well as many roads that could be opened in resource cycling through crafting.
Click to expand...
About this, gamblers don't click EP for the residue. They click for the big hits. :) The residue is the bonus that they get to offset the cost of the clicks. There is a wrong assumption here on the forums that EP crafting == gambling. It most certainly is not. There is EP crafting which under right circumstances is good profit and then there is gambling .

Del believed that miners mining pushed the prices of amps up recently. That is not the case in my opinion. With mayhem , most crafters were hunting and not doing EP. Prices of residue rose and that lead to rise in price of the amps. One or even 5 miners mining 24*7 will not raise price of amps :)

Sorry that i digressed there a bit but the bottom line is that residue is not what EP gamblers craft for. So whether residue is 100.5 or 102% is decided by how many people are gambling and not that gamblers come gambling when it hits a higher number. There might be other reasons not to do this but no this will not prevent gamblers.

My 2 cents
 
I agree
I want some more powerfull toys to use, to gamble, to grind, to mine and to exacvate more easily Than today
To do what’s everyone want to do
Allow us some choice
But it seems mining is stuck since age , think about the excavators enhancers bug
 
Of course. Gamblers will find a new "fix" for their rush. Not much we can do if they want to do stuff for the ATH in a capped game...

What Im trying to point out is that not needing to produce residue closes the door to multiple oportunities for other bps that can suit that "gambler" or to put it in non offensive words, condition/risky playstyle:

-Bp chains like gizmos that consume a hell lot of resources that have low MU and are easy to get (fillers), produce residue and something like arkcoin to be traded in "token traders" for LAs or gear. Many other ideas one could have. Not needing residue kinda closes the door on that and need to change a system thats in place since beginning, dumbing the game even more while at it.

There was a lot more method to the madness of crafting OA-101 L back in the day... Eps is just the same
 
Divinity said:
About this, gamblers don't click EP for the residue. They click for the big hits. :) The residue is the bonus that they get to offset the cost of the clicks. There is a wrong assumption here on the forums that EP crafting == gambling. It most certainly is not. There is EP crafting which under right circumstances is good profit and then there is gambling .

Del believed that miners mining pushed the prices of amps up recently. That is not the case in my opinion. With mayhem , most crafters were hunting and not doing EP. Prices of residue rose and that lead to rise in price of the amps. One or even 5 miners mining 24*7 will not raise price of amps :)

Sorry that i digressed there a bit but the bottom line is that residue is not what EP gamblers craft for. So whether residue is 100.5 or 102% is decided by how many people are gambling and not that gamblers come gambling when it hits a higher number. There might be other reasons not to do this but no this will not prevent gamblers.

My 2 cents
Click to expand...
I agree 100% with Divinity on the fact that it's the supply reduction which is driving met res price up, not an increase in demand. Actually, many EP crafters I know, just TT res, because they value their time and speed of cycling more than the few percentage points they can get from selling res.
Further evidence is that the average MU of Explosive projectile rec have been going steadily down. That seems to be a longer term trend though and I am not totally sure that Mayhem is the only cause. Hopefully it is and we can see met res back to or under 101% in a few weeks.
 
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