Help: Need advice, Paramedic or Evader?

[Magix]

I'm playing around with the chipping optimizer tool, and apparently for 500 ped, I can either:

Raise Paramedic to 20 from 14.4,
or
Raise Evader to 20.5 from 17.3.

I know most people here will say "Evader, obviously!" but Paramedic @ 20 has some distinct advantages:
* It unlocks Medicine, which is selling at 2400%.
* I would need to buy first aid and diagnosis, which are skills that do not traditionally decrease in value over time.
* I can start using the Hedoc SK-50.
* My First Aid skill is ~1500, my diagnosis is ~500, so chipping at this level would give the max benefit.

Also, raising Evader has some distinct disadvantages:
* I would have to buy alertness and combat reflexes (~800% each), which are barely worth the cost of the ESI, and a bad future investment when I chip out.
* I wouldn't unlock any skills. The next unlock is level 25.
* My evade skill is over 2500, so chipping in is much more difficult and expensive. The majority of the cost (roughly 480 out of 500 ped) would be solely in evade.

I'm leaning towards paramedic (because I would gain 6 levels instead of 3 for the same cost, and I can't see myself buying an 800% skill that will probably only go down as esi costs decrease). Any thoughts or opinions?

 

[HinDragoz]

I would go with the paramedic. Better survivability

 

[Makitoki]

i would go with an ingame mentor

 

[minim]

Buy a modfap (you will allreaddy max it) and chip in evader







more serious... I would go for paramedics.

 

[Spawn]

maybe invest 1000 ped in paramedic and unlock the ur125?

 

[kebplay]

UR125 is a nice FAP to unlock, but I think Evade will save you the most PEDs in the long run if you hunt a lot.

 

[danimal01]

UR125 is a nice FAP to unlock, but I think Evade will save you the most PEDs in the long run if you hunt a lot.

This! I hunt A LOT and use adj fap sometimes while out... good evader and good armor against your mobs will keep you from needing to heal much. My profesional level in paramedic is pretty low but I do max the adj/imp/mod faps

So obvious choice here go with evader, and if you really want that first aid skill just do some missions like rex or something (gives 6TT).

~Danimal

 

[Infinity01]

prevention is better than cure!

Not getting hit is much better:

not to get hit at all and not waste on armor or FAP decay.
FAP time is a big waste especially on high regen mobs ...... especially true if it sends you to revival due to crit hit!
also while fapping and not shooting the mobs... it (the mobs) tend to hit you more...
So, IMHO, definitely you should go wiht evade and better armor....
However, I would have suggested for paramedic if you were close to unlocking level 30/maxing out ur125..

 

[Talania]

Evader level 30.5 is the level you would need to change the hits from most larger mobs. Seemed to me that was when the hits became fewer for me that is. I had heard it was 30 before but didn't see a change until I made 30.5. Once you reach that level you don't need to heal nearly as much. But the trade off is you get hit less and less agility skills and less healing skills unless you use lower defense armor.

Oh and to max UR-125 you need 31 Paramedic, not 30 like Entropedia says. The heal is max at 30 but heal interval is still 19/20 until you reach 31.

 

[Jimmy B]

I'd not chip at all and keep the PED for cycling ammo.

But if you must chip, in this case you'll probably see more immediate impact from the paramedic gain. Looking at the long-term though, evader is the better choice. Needing to fap less is better than being able to fap more

 

[Infinity01]

I'd not chip at all and keep the PED for cycling ammo.

At your level, probably that's the best suggestion...

It's somewhat similar to the situation,,, I suggest newbies not to do any skilling missions untill their agility reaches arround 50!

 

[danimal01]

At your level, probably that's the best suggestion...

It's somewhat similar to the situation,,, I suggest newbies not to do any skilling missions untill their agility reaches arround 50!

I would rather wait till 80 or 90 in agility to do the agility reward missions as your agility slows at 80 and you can forget about skilling it 90+

~Danimal

 

[Talania]

I would rather wait till 80 or 90 in agility to do the agility reward missions as your agility slows at 80 and you can forget about skilling it 90+

~Danimal

Sell evade and dodge skills to Magix and you will get back some agility increase.

 

[danimal01]

Sell evade and dodge skills to Magix and you will get back some agility increase.

Chipping those skills out would not effect how quickly your agility increased. Agility does contribute to the increase of those skills though...

~Danimal

 

[Talania]

Chipping those skills out would not effect how quickly your agility increased. Agility does contribute to the increase of those skills though...

~Danimal

If that is true then it doesn't matter what level Evader or Dodger you have. Mobs will hit you the same unless you have high Agility.

Why then did mobs start missing me more at 30.5 Evader?

What you are saying is you can still get agility when a mob misses you?

 

[danimal01]

If that is true then it doesn't matter what level Evader or Dodger you have. Mobs will hit you the same unless you have high Agility.

Why then did mobs start missing me more at 30.5 Evader?

What you are saying is you can still get agility when a mob misses you?

I was only talking about Agility, never did I say that Evader makes mobs miss you less or more. Let me say this again:

Chipping out Evader and Dodge to 0TT and Level 0 will not make your Agility increase faster while your AGILITY is at level 90+ it will move the same (slowly).

Have a look here to see what agility contributes to:
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Skill&id=1

And yes you can still get agility while a mob misses you since the other professions contribute to agility increases. (listed in link)

~Danimal

 

[toad]

Cycle peds or buy evader skills is my advice.

Agility do still increase, at merry mayhem i was at 100+ agility and on those 5 days i gained 2% of a level agility, this was from hunting neconu prowlers with tier 5 mod merc in supremacy armor.

 

[Bolivar]

Evader! Always Evader!

 

[Aeris_is_back]

I wont read everything but I'll take evade over medic if the tt values are the same. outside of that why not consider not chipping at all ever! its worth the barging rights.

 

[aridash]

do you want economy or ability?

Evade will give you greater economy, ever so slightly.

FA will give you greater ability, as you can use a better fap.

note though that lvl 20 isnt enough for a HK-20, you need to add 3 or 4 levels above the recommendation to make it usable.

there are two advantages to buying FA: first its skills slowly (you dont fap much relative to getting hit) and it has additional unlocks at 20 and 25 (evade only has avoidance at 25).

i'd go with buying FA, as i did, because you can skill evade cheaply by nakid hunting of the right mobs, where as trying to do the same with even a fap 5 is expensive. one caveate though, is it worth only going to 20? i dont think so, you need to chip to max the HK-50 at around 24 or not bother imo.

however, at under 300 ped for a fap90 you have to wonder if its worth bothering with the extra skills, the fap90 is pretty decent aside from eco. i use one far more than an L fap as i prefer the speed and faffing to buy L faps all the time.

 

[Talania]

I was only talking about Agility, never did I say that Evader makes mobs miss you less or more. Let me say this again:

Chipping out Evader and Dodge to 0TT and Level 0 will not make your Agility increase faster while your AGILITY is at level 90+ it will move the same (slowly).

Have a look here to see what agility contributes to:
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Skill&id=1

And yes you can still get agility while a mob misses you since the other professions contribute to agility increases. (listed in link)

~Danimal

Agility increases those professions. Only attribute affected by professions is Health.

 

[Jennson]

Paramedic to ditch that EK-2600

 

[Infinity01]

OK a bit of off topic but relevent.

does MA use armor/fap decay for calculating TT return?

 

[Terminator]

OK a bit of off topic but relevent.

does MA use armor/fap decay for calculating TT return?

We even dont know if they calculate TT return.

My opinion is they dont, but if you believe so, I think most people believing it generally exclude the defensive costs of the equation.

 

[Jimmy B]

Agility increases those professions. Only attribute affected by professions is Health.

Yes, but I think danimal's point was that chipping out Evader-related skills will not have any effect on the rate you gain Agility. As far as I know, you gain Evader-related skills when Evading (whether successfully or not) and the rate they increase is constant in terms of ESI-tt. The reason they slow down is because as your skill increases you need more and more ESI-tt per skill-level.

If you had 10k Alertness and no other skills, your Alertness would increase at the same rate as if you had 10k in all skills.

It's somewhat similar to the situation,,, I suggest newbies not to do any skilling missions untill their agility reaches arround 50!

I would rather wait till 80 or 90 in agility to do the agility reward missions as your agility slows at 80 and you can forget about skilling it 90+

I get why you guys say that, but do attributes have enough of an impact to be worth it? The difference between 80 and 100 is pretty small both on overall HP and on pro-levels.

Personally I'd say the skill rewards are the main reason to do the missions, and in some ways the newer the player the bigger the (immediate) impact of those rewards.

 

[MartinXVI]

I would not chip in at all but if i had an extra 500 ped i would go for evade.
If you hunt smallish and easy mobs then 15+ level paramedic is pretty much useless imo.
Extra evade can save you some pecs every run, that can make a big difference if you hunt a lot... but again you can do LT/allo/feff mission which gives you tons of athletics.

 

[Fifth]

Danimal's giving a very good advice for those noobs who wanna brag with 100+ agi someday. Skilling up 1 level of agi naturally at lvl 10 and lvl 100 is like difference between few days and few years...
Also, if we turn it around, skilled player who adds one full level (of any attribute) to their already near-100 levels will get considerably more "agility-points" than noobs at their low levels.
But if u don't care about the "magic numbers" and long term goals, getting the "free" attribute boost early is more eco ofc.


On topic:
Don't think 500 peds would really get you anywhere... i'd rather go skill naturally and get both evade and paramedic in the process, plus many other skills as a bonus.
And the unique experience of being a happy noob!

 

[Hypnotyk]

Evade and always evade in my opinion. My reasoning is the less I get hit, the less I heal and the less I pay in armor/fap decays.

Furthermore, by having more evade it opens up more doors for hunting new mobs. Just because I can heal full hp with 1 click doesn't do me much good if the mob I am hunting hits me almost every time. Too much time spent healing and not enough time spent shooting is never good in my eyes.

 

[Magix]

Thanks for a lot of food for thought everybody, I think I've made my decision. Here's some responses for people who posted, I tried to group them by topic:


Changing FAPs

I would go with the paramedic. Better survivability

maybe invest 1000 ped in paramedic and unlock the ur125?

Paramedic to ditch that EK-2600

After doing tons and tons of research in faps, combat faps are just way overpriced. The next higher would be Fap-90 (+300), Fap-69 SGA (+10k), or Adj Fap (+way too much). I'm very comfortable with the ek-2600 actually, and I don't really use it that much. If I do use it a lot, I usually don't fight that monster in the future.

Saving money on decay

UR125 is a nice FAP to unlock, but I think Evade will save you the most PEDs in the long run if you hunt a lot.

Extra evade can save you some pecs every run, that can make a big difference if you hunt a lot....

Evade and always evade in my opinion. My reasoning is the less I get hit, the less I heal and the less I pay in armor/fap decays.

Probably the strongest argument in favor of Evade, but everybody knew it was coming. By eyeballing the charts at Entropedia (looks like from .6 to .5, or .1 gain,) going from 17 to 20 Evader would result in 1 fewer hits every 10 minutes, or 6 less hits per hour.

Skilling naturally

I'd not chip at all and keep the PED for cycling ammo.

Don't think 500 peds would really get you anywhere... i'd rather go skill naturally and get both evade and paramedic in the process, plus many other skills as a bonus.

i'd go with buying FA, as i did, because you can skill evade cheaply by nakid hunting of the right mobs, where as trying to do the same with even a fap 5 is expensive.

Well, that's what I've been doing for a couple of years now, and see where my Paramedic skills have ended up. I've been playing conservatively, not playing over my head, rarely fapping, and they just aren't going up. As I got more and more eco, paramedic started going up slower and slower, while Evade seems to be going up as fast as ever. Part of why I played with the chipping tool was that Paramedic was going up so slowly.

Short-term vs Long-term

But if you must chip, in this case you'll probably see more immediate impact from the paramedic gain.

do you want economy or ability?

there are two advantages to buying FA: first its skills slowly (you dont fap much relative to getting hit) and it has additional unlocks at 20 and 25 (evade only has avoidance at 25).

The main thing I want is value: if I chip in 500 ped worth, which will give me the best bang for my buck? Because of the lower starting point for Diagnosis/FA, I get way more skills/levels for 500 than evade/cr/ath etc.

The argument that really tipped it in favor of Paramedic is getting the Medicine unlock, which I can easily sell, unlike Evader. Hopefully, in time, Medicine will not only pay for itself but also allow me to buy Evader.

 

[Jimmy B]

After doing tons and tons of research in faps, combat faps are just way overpriced. The next higher would be Fap-90 (+300), Fap-69 SGA (+10k), or Adj Fap (+way too much). I'm very comfortable with the ek-2600 actually, and I don't really use it that much. If I do use it a lot, I usually don't fight that monster in the future.

Fap-90 used to be well into four figures, but yes, they're overpriced and dropping as a result. Part of the reason is the new L faps which are way more eco. Unless you believe the extra fap decay from old-style faps is compensated in loot, L faps are for sure the way to go. Adj Fap is a whole different beast though, it's expensive because it is massively more eco than normal faps.

Probably the strongest argument in favor of Evade, but everybody knew it was coming. By eyeballing the charts at Entropedia (looks like from .6 to .5, or .1 gain,) going from 17 to 20 Evader would result in 1 fewer hits every 10 minutes, or 6 less hits per hour.

Yeah, the arguments for Evade are more long-term minded. Going from 17 to 20 isn't going to make a hugely noticeable immediate difference to your gameplay. I like your plan of chipping out fap skills further down the road to buy evade skills. Although I'd suggest getting maxed on UR125 first and chipping out anything beyond that.