No loot and growing EU

maxwellhawk

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max hawk phoenix
As a just returning player I posted this to another forum not realizing the difference so I thought I should post this here also. Hope this is now in the right place :)

I would like to present some ideas on getting the EU community to grow. As and old player that just recently returned I see some of the same issues that got me to retire the first time - don't get me wrong I still like this game and the format it presents; however there is still issues with economics and the player base not growing.
When I first started playing about 10 yrs ago PE was very active and dynamic but slowly started to lose its appeal. I remember going out with 1x axes and having a blast killing corns and argos. There was some very dynamic soc's that you could have a lot of fun in and not go broke doing it. You could go on team hunts and socialize which made this a great place to while your time away. You could play for about 20 bucks a month and have a lot of fun, granted you were not going to get rich doing it but it was the fun factor that made this game great. The fun factor went away when it became to pricey to do anything. I think most people are looking for fun in a game and making sure that is here without having to mortgage your house to play is a very important part of making a game viable.

Now to some of the issues I would like to address. First I'll start with no loot - nobody I mean nobody likes this. My suggestion is every mob should loot (after all you did use ammo and decay to kill the mob). In rl if you kill something there is something left when you're done even if it is worthless you could for the most part salvage something if you wanted to. So my suggestion to solve this dilemma is have every mob drop at least a damaged hide (very low tt value). With these hides you could have a crafting skill that allowed you to create a good hide with them - this in turn would work as an introduction to crafting and MA would still get a return from it in the crafting machines. This would essentially "grow" people into the game and the various aspects of it. Also it is something you could do without spending a ton of cash (crafting is a very expensive part of this game and almost makes it an elitist art). So what I'm saying is MA should take the feel of gambling out of the game and get back to the point of playing to have fun without having to hit the lottery in order to keep playing.

The next issue I would like to address is worthless items that have no ingame use. Yes I see the necessity of an item like animal oil that fills the loot gap but not a thousand different animal oils (I would like to clarify that animal oil isn't the issue but on a couple of other planets it is with a bunch of items that have no use but drop all the time). Get rid of the no use items - if it can't be useful then why even have it. Sifting through a bunch .01 items is not fun especially if you're new and don't have a clue of which ones are usable and which are not.

Last but not least my biggest pet peeve - Market Manipulators. In my opinion they do nothing but inflate the prices of items and make a lot of useful tools unavailable to the player base. I also see them as not contributing to the game but being leeches that suck ped out without putting anything back in (I could really rant on this item but it is to political and probably belongs in a separate thread especially with the state of the world's economy ). I understand that this game is supposed to have a free economy but a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Most countries have laws against monopolies and if there is one there is limits put on it. I agree that some items should not be limited in price but common items that are of everyday use should not be allowed to be sold at artificially inflated prices (especially those items that will enhance the game and help it grow).

I guess I've ranted enough but I needed to voice my opinion on these subjects because as I said I do like this game.

p.s. Maybe some of the MA employees need to play some of the other successful games out there, then they might be able to incorporate some of ideas that made the other games successful. It is nice to logon at any given time and find 40k people logged in and no I'm not talking wow.
 
No loots - have to exist to create globals. Where do you think 50 ped Snablesnot globals come from? ;)

Irrelevant / mostly useless items - some have been removed. Argos for example no longer loot Knight thigh f, Kango Mask, Hydraulic manifolds.

Market Manipulators - will always exist in a real money game. As a returning player you'll notice a lot of prices have fallen on hunting gear, there are real bargains to be had, I'm not a seller of any but am contemplating buying....


Welcome back!
 
Some time in the future, no loots will be almost be abolished, by MA's own words.
Useless items have been removed, plenty more to be had also, but it's a start so.
Manipulators better beware due to a new rule that could get them perm banned.
All in all the game is as cheap as ever to play now you just need to play smarter.
MA will also I believe want to turn most non sib into sib with higher requirements.
Don't tell me all this isn't a step in the right path for a successful future inside EU.
 
The loot system already seems to have been adjusted, more 2-3k loots and less 10-20k loots. As for cost to play.....well MindArk seriously needs to address this issue. So many new players turn and run when they realise it costs $10-20USD for 30-45mins of hunting. Crafting anything decent, you need at least $200-300 in materials.
All MA needs to do is make ammo, probes cheap and make the ammo use in guns at least 75% less than it is now! My hunting has been reduced by the costs involved with ammo and decay.
 
No more ammo in loot please :yay:
 
All MA needs to do is make ammo, probes cheap and make the ammo use in guns at least 75% less than it is now! My hunting has been reduced by the costs involved with ammo and decay.

They introduced the Sollomate Kiwio and Genesis Rookie Finder deliberately to give new players a cheaper way to start the game though?
 
Totaly useless change, if you lower the price on ammo you lower the loot gained with the same % and ends up with the exact same result as now, buy a lower level gun if you want to play on a lower level, its as easy as that to fix that issue, and no coding need to be done from MA for that ;)

All MA needs to do is make ammo, probes cheap and make the ammo use in guns at least 75% less than it is now! My hunting has been reduced by the costs involved with ammo and decay.
 
They introduced the Sollomate Kiwio and Genesis Rookie Finder deliberately to give new players a cheaper way to start the game though?

no no mate you misunderstand, we don't want to use smaller guns and hunt smaller mobs, we want to use bigger guns to hunt bigger mobs... but we can't accept paying more to do that, so we want bigger guns that use less ammo so we can hunt bigger mobs without spending more... you get it now?
 
"No loot" are not a big problem in my opinion, it's only a problem if you do small hunting trips and kill few mobs. If you kill 50 mobs and get 25 "no loot" and 25 "loot" with 2 ped, or if you get 50 loot with 1 ped at avarage, who cares? It's more important that they have fewer HOFS/globals and better avarage "normal" loot.

But if you kill three "big" mobs and get three "no loot" i understand the problem.
 
with all the no loots and the poor returns...

people with the higher dps weapons can lose 200-300$ a day...
and in upwards of 105,000$ (not 100k peds... but $$$$) a year... that is a serious game eh ;)

skills nor maxed weapons help...

just gotta have hope i guess...
 
No loots - have to exist to create globals. Where do you think 50 ped Snablesnot globals come from? ;)
Guess the reason some of us gets upset then when a Daikiba Young drops 3k ped... (Hint: I'm not talking about ubers getting angry because noobs get big loots easy)

Irrelevant / mostly useless items - some have been removed. Argos for example no longer loot Knight thigh f, Kango Mask, Hydraulic manifolds.

On one hand, well besides not having any markup, they didn't contribute negatively to returns in the past. If you didn't want a kango mask you just turned it back into TT at wall in twin peaks to get more ammo.

On the other hand, at least in my experience, also irrelevant items such as wormhole chips and resurrection chips seems to have been removed from loots (at least I haven't seen any drop of them neither in my own loot window or in a loot window posted here on forum)... And other items such as Tango rifles moved to event mobs.

Market Manipulators - will always exist in a real money game. As a returning player you'll notice a lot of prices have fallen on hunting gear, there are real bargains to be had, I'm not a seller of any but am contemplating buying.... Welcome back!

During the years of playing, the deposit has indeed drained my IRL economy quite a bit. Though items have fallen in price, I (still) can't feel it's a good idea to deposit several thousands of PEDs in a go for it. Or stop hunting for a year just to "save up" (it would be rather pointless to stop depositing to save up IRL for something ingame since it practically would mean I wouldn't be playing - then I aswell could scrap the entire idea).
 
with all the no loots and the poor returns...

people with the higher dps weapons can lose 200-300$ a day...
and in upwards of 105,000$ (not 100k peds... but $$$$) a year... that is a serious game eh ;)

skills nor maxed weapons help...

just gotta have hope i guess...

btw the numbers are from many many personal experiences and friends experiences...

obviously you dont have to lose 200-300 a day... but it is very very easy to hunting Eco with maxed gear on high traffic mobs like atrox... rex... levis... aulri... etc... soo easy to lose 200-300 a day... something is not right... in the many years of play i havnt seen losses like these...

I hope whatever was changed on the 19th of Dec. gets fixed quick... when MA comes back from vacation (we know they are on vacation since no supports are being tended to) I assume they will be back the week of the 12th since that is when the MM results are due...

you may ask why the 19th? look at the chart... it is simple... (look for the red circle with the !)

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=85

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=334

other mobs look just like this...

with record amounts of peds cycled... for the year (for merry mayhem...10+million peds cycled since the 19th)

there was 1 single big hof of 19k by smilgs on scips...
 
btw the numbers are from many many personal experiences and friends experiences...

obviously you dont have to lose 200-300 a day... but it is very very easy to hunting Eco with maxed gear on high traffic mobs like atrox... rex... levis... aulri... etc... soo easy to lose 200-300 a day... something is not right... in the many years of play i havnt seen losses like these...

I hope whatever was changed on the 19th of Dec. gets fixed quick... when MA comes back from vacation (we know they are on vacation since no supports are being tended to) I assume they will be back the week of the 12th since that is when the MM results are due...

you may ask why the 19th? look at the chart... it is simple... (look for the red circle with the !)

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=85

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=334

other mobs look just like this...

with record amounts of peds cycled... for the year (for merry mayhem...10+million peds cycled since the 19th)

there was 1 single big hof of 19k by smilgs on scips...

Perhaps they are experimenting.

Would there be a generally happier and larger playerbase if (taking Atrox as an example) there were 10 x 2k Atrox youngs per week as opposed to 1 x 20k Atrox young.

If that is indeed what is happening, results will start to show and I'm sure Mindark have the tools to monitor average number of players per day / average ped cycled and stuff like that.
 
Perhaps they are experimenting.

Would there be a generally happier and larger playerbase if (taking Atrox as an example) there were 10 x 2k Atrox youngs per week as opposed to 1 x 20k Atrox young.

If that is indeed what is happening, results will start to show and I'm sure Mindark have the tools to monitor average number of players per day / average ped cycled and stuff like that.

btw the numbers are from many many personal experiences and friends experiences...

obviously you dont have to lose 200-300 a day... but it is very very easy to hunting Eco with maxed gear on high traffic mobs like atrox... rex... levis... aulri... etc... soo easy to lose 200-300 a day... something is not right... in the many years of play i havnt seen losses like these...

I hope whatever was changed on the 19th of Dec. gets fixed quick... when MA comes back from vacation (we know they are on vacation since no supports are being tended to) I assume they will be back the week of the 12th since that is when the MM results are due...

you may ask why the 19th? look at the chart... it is simple... (look for the red circle with the !)

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=85

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=334

other mobs look just like this...

with record amounts of peds cycled... for the year (for merry mayhem...10+million peds cycled since the 19th)

there was 1 single big hof of 19k by smilgs on scips...

and if it wasnt such a vast contrast to what we were used to i dont think anyone would have noticed...

but we went from 2-5 10k+ pedders a day to NON... the change was soo extreme

and you can not say loot is just being more evenly dispursed because the hof table looks almost exactly the same but with out 10k pedders
Now we see 1-5 1k ped hof with the same 300 ped hofs being at the bottom of the top 100 hofs...
 
Perhaps they are experimenting.

and if it is an experiment... it is a sick experiment that i didnt sign up for...

:(

i want this game to be around for many years to come...
I have been a huge fan and brought people to this game...
but something recently changed for me... in my loot...
so all i ask is please get this shit figured out... because if i didnt have the disposable income... i would be forced to quit...

100-300$ a day is far too much for a game...
and that is not gambling... that is eco hunting with nice maxed gear... not playing the crafting machines... or bombing with huge amps...

I know MA has to make money and nothing in game is free...
and I dont mind losing peds...

when i feel taken advantage of and ripped off... this is when negative feelings start to creep in...

anyways if you have noticed a change in loot i would suggest a support case be filed... and maybe they will get the idea...
 
and if it wasnt such a vast contrast to what we were used to i dont think anyone would have noticed...

but we went from 2-5 10k+ pedders a day to NON... the change was soo extreme

and you can not say loot is just being more evenly dispursed because the hof table looks almost exactly the same but with out 10k pedders
Now we see 1-5 1k ped hof with the same 300 ped hofs being at the bottom of the top 100 hofs...

If there has been a change, (and yes, I was expecting to see some large Feff, Neconu and Rex 5 digit loots happen too during MM), it is only affecting hunting as I look there is a 30k Alice on the HOF board and there has been plenty of 5 digit mining and crafting loots since the 19th Dec.
 
If there has been a change, (and yes, I was expecting to see some large Feff, Neconu and Rex 5 digit loots happen too during MM), it is only affecting hunting as I look there is a 30k Alice on the HOF board and there has been plenty of 5 digit mining and crafting loots since the 19th Dec.

yes hunting only...
crafting and mining seem to be normal

feels like a governor/limiter has been put on our hunting loot
 
Loss 500 ped on 700 or so trox trox last week. That hof never came. Taking a break and skilling on punys. I get my Buzz from level ups at the moment instead of globals and I am cycling the same 10ped of ammo 1week later.
 
Loss 500 ped on 700 or so trox trox last week. That hof never came. Taking a break and skilling on punys. I get my Buzz from level ups at the moment instead of globals and I am cycling the same 10ped of ammo 1week later.

i might have to go to punys:smoke:

like i said somewhere else... it might not be all hunting types with bad loots... i could be just melee that is unbalanced atm...
(after talking it over with 3 other high level melee hunters who are experiencing the same as myself)...
maybe something to do with 100% decay throws off the returns... who knows... i am just searching for answers atm to the obvious changes... andto the worst returns in 8 years :)
 
i might have to go to punys:smoke:

like i said somewhere else... it might not be all hunting types with bad loots... i could be just melee that is unbalanced atm...
(after talking it over with 3 other high level melee hunters who are experiencing the same as myself)...
maybe something to do with 100% decay throws off the returns... who knows... i am just searching for answers atm to the obvious changes... andto the worst returns in 8 years :)

Same here, worst returns for me since I started some years ago.
And yes, I use melee too.
 
Same here, worst returns for me since I started some years ago.
And yes, I use melee too.

I use a rainbow...
I have talked to PoD users..
Nifl users...
and others and noticed all getting same very bad returns...

might make sense why soo many melee weapons for sale :)

Bifrost
Nifl
PoD
that smuggler blade (recently bought though i think)

so my guess is maybe melee... that is just an opinion...

but one thing that can be said unequivocally...
there has been some of the highest amount of cycled peds this year... a nearly NO 5 digit hofs...
 
ye this is basicaslly gambling online with an fps feel so to speak, quite genius back in the day, but if loot (all loots= mining, hunting, etc) are low and not much of a return even to break even , eventually beings this IS a Serious Money Game , then ye Motivation to play will fall, that is to those who may be looking to at least break even every so often.


so then the trick is Space and the "pirates" who will loot ya if you not carfeul, but then again i hear space is not all that active so...the "Privateer" Profession so to speak may be for those who are patient.

and other lootable pvp areas , which as far as i can see are trying to be avoided. much like the same as how EVE is in a sense so to speak.

and for the resellers and the market players idk why a rule is going to be set in place for perma bans, but hey if they did not want it like that in the first place a Player Based Economy should have not been implemented in the way it was or updated etc.

imho they should have it set up ye for pvp but FREE PVP like a regular good old First Person Shooter at first to get some players in, i know thtere are soc wars etc, BUT they cost money and if they were to give a "FREE" pvp area a go it may pan out better in the long run to introduce others to the mmorpg type this has as well.

so then lets say you pay in an fps (first person shooter) to buy better weps etc , much the sme as here basically,.. but instead the "FREE" pvp area is just for that with default guns unlimited ammo like an fps basically, ye there are "cages" and "pvp areas" but as far as i have seen over the times there is not much going on with them.
and they could use PED to "subscribe" to these areas after awhile once they see how much activity is going on.

where i am getting at with this is get some more players in more players who WILL spend money because they do in an good fps and get pvp rank ups and stats etc.

what i think this would do is encourage both players to come and for MA to increase loot drops which would encourage these new players to "gamble" and get rid of the sweating i think its the biggest cause of majority of new players coming to go as i / we have all seen in the past. find some other alternative way to ge sweat IF that is going to be continuing to be the base of ME.

well that was pretty basic nothing fancy (sadly) off the top of my head.

sry if i went off topic , reading these got my head running
 
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btw the numbers are from many many personal experiences and friends experiences...

obviously you dont have to lose 200-300 a day... but it is very very easy to hunting Eco with maxed gear on high traffic mobs like atrox... rex... levis... aulri... etc... soo easy to lose 200-300 a day... something is not right... in the many years of play i havnt seen losses like these...

I hope whatever was changed on the 19th of Dec. gets fixed quick... when MA comes back from vacation (we know they are on vacation since no supports are being tended to) I assume they will be back the week of the 12th since that is when the MM results are due...

you may ask why the 19th? look at the chart... it is simple... (look for the red circle with the !)

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=85

http://entropiatracker.com/viewMob.asp?MobID=334

other mobs look just like this...

with record amounts of peds cycled... for the year (for merry mayhem...10+million peds cycled since the 19th)

there was 1 single big hof of 19k by smilgs on scips...



MA should be back tomorrow... so your supports will be answered...
but the new system is here for good it seems...

welcome 1k pedders
good by aths (should see only a couple a year now)
 
You all want good loot and good revenues also?

(jokemode off)

Seriously. Millons of peds. Cycled. You so like that word, Joker. Trillions, ffs, bicycled. Still you don't get difference between cycling and injection.

While your Grand Failure Anthem with lvl7 on FOMA, you still doesn't get, that power in short time amount doesn't do nothing. Now you stating, that in MM there was no five-digits. Yes, same picture - just damn five days. Oh, crafting is "normal", mining is "normal".

Do you think, I am not able to bomb FOMA with lvl7? Then why I am not doing it? Why any FOMA resident doesn't use those amps on FOMA?

MA is full of mercy, by the way. They doesn't give mechanism to put all your ped card in one amp or one shoot.
 
This game is easy to beat hunting & mining, I have made peds doing both so far, thats all im going to say... except that it is so easy I have decided to buy some land deeds and up my stake if anyone wants to sell.
 
As a just returning player I posted this to another forum not realizing the difference so I thought I should post this here also. Hope this is now in the right place :)


Now to some of the issues I would like to address. First I'll start with no loot - nobody I mean nobody likes this. My suggestion is every mob should loot (after all you did use ammo and decay to kill the mob). In rl if you kill something there is something left when you're done even if it is worthless you could for the most part salvage something if you wanted to. So my suggestion to solve this dilemma is have every mob drop at least a damaged hide (very low tt value).

One of my favorite Ma officials once said that the no looting would be gone till the end of 2011. And i can confirm that: Since I stoppped playing I haven't got any "no loot" message.:girl:
Kidding aside: Shortly after the promise that no loot message will be gone until octobre of 2011 they introduced the items with almost no TT(fragments). It seems that these no-TT vlaue loots haven't met MA's expectations, otherwise they would have been implemented.

This game is easy to beat hunting & mining, I have made peds doing both so far, thats all im going to say... except that it is so easy I have decided to buy some land deeds and up my stake if anyone wants to sell.

Yup it's easy to make some PEDs. But is it fun? Does it reliable pay your rent? Is it more fun than your job and pays you better?
I was here for the fun, apparently it died.
 
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hmmm...no looters reduced ?
Haven't we been there when they introduced the fragments ?
Didn't the mayority complain because they have almost no value?


and if it wasnt such a vast contrast to what we were used to i dont think anyone would have noticed...

but we went from 2-5 10k+ pedders a day to NON... the change was soo extreme

and you can not say loot is just being more evenly dispursed because the hof table looks almost exactly the same but with out 10k pedders
Now we see 1-5 1k ped hof with the same 300 ped hofs being at the bottom of the top 100 hofs...
I remember a time when the lowest HoFs were around 250, that changed after Levis and Proterons were introduced.
And I really can not remember that we ever had 10k HoFs every day for the past 4 years, actually I even remember that a 800 PED one got me into the top twenty and I remember that the top ones were all below 3k.

I think the problem with "remembering" is, that one trust his own brain, which does not reflect reality at all.
There is a reason why people allways think that it was better in the old days, but somehow the facts look different.
 
There is a reason why people allways think that it was better in the old days, but somehow the facts look different.

facts are facts... I had peds then...
Now i dont and i depo and lose 50-60$ every 1.5 hours or so...

this is the COLD reality atm...
before I KNOW for a fact... i didnt have these losses...

since we are talking facts... here is some facts from other post

since i am laying it on the table... screw it here you go...


when this hof came...
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/5/1/6/6/gigantic_upload.jpg
I had 50k$ left in game (1/20/2010)
(90k on card... 20k in amps and minerals... 30k from hof+shadow SGA about 70k peds in value at the time + niflhiem TT+30k or 40k peds total... 200k peds in skills at the time...+other shit in storage...)

Now i have at best 20k$ left in game... (1/9/2012)
UL rainbow... empty storage.... half broken grem armour... and 220 hp and skills...
so in 2 years... beacause of bad loots... and losses from hunting/mining... and losses from items... i lost about 30k$


now I see only 1k peds coming around... no chance to make back those huge losses :(

you may say... joker you had a ton of hofs... and ubers
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...Looted-Items&p=2868563&viewfull=1#post2868563

yea those at best lately broke me even for a hunt...

so i am pleading my case... please fix loot or look into Melee... something Catastrophic has happened

oh and deposited 1,000$ in the last 1 or 2 months
and empty storage which had a few 1000 peds in it

take those facts :(
 
I think the problem with "remembering" is, that one trust his own brain, which does not reflect reality at all.
There is a reason why people allways think that it was better in the old days, but somehow the facts look different.

If you've seen the films Solaris
"But I was haunted by the idea that I remembered her wrong, and somehow I was wrong about everything."

or Memento
"I was so convinced that you'd remember. But it didn't stick... like nothin' ever sticks, like this won't stick."


Human memory is very fallible. Not that everyone isn't entitled to their opinion (they are), and I was very fond of old Entropia, I just prefer the new shiny one with Missions, Vehicles and Day / Night cycles. I even like the new bugs that are better than the old bugs. :D
 
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