No theory

[Remus]

Here is an example mining run. (profitable btw)



Another mining run, 6 days after this one, with 40 probes again
can be found in this POST

As can be seen, it leaves no space for building any decent theory.
Matrix has you!

Thanks to huge feedback (compared to my expectations) on this poll I have uploaded my sample application. Pretend that you really mine and observe. Try it a few times. And enjoy.
If anyone has any idea worth implementing I am willing to do so.

Files are accessible from this THREAD

 

[Kuber]

Stupid n00b miner question... what app is that you're running to auto-log that stuff, or do you do it manually?

Thanks!

 

[Harvest]

Here is an example mining run. (profitable btw)



As can be seen, it leaves no space for building any decent theory.
Matrix has you!

13/62 almost = 5/12 so around every 5 drops you get something. Go back to the same spot a couple of times/different days and do the same run, then compare your results.

 

[Wolverine Queen]

Actually this kinda makes sense about veins. You had 0 single claims, every claim was close to another one.

 

[Remus]

Stupid n00b miner question... what app is that you're running to auto-log that stuff, or do you do it manually?

Thanks!

I have a great passion for dismantling black-boxes. (Well writen but shallow paper on informational black-boxes) So I logged this run manualy. After I finished I entered data in CAR (great free geometry program btw), as there is no point in writing my own full featured version of tracker unless I have decent reasons.

PS Dont call yourself a noob as I am pretty sure we are all noobs here as long as we all intentionaly lack at least some informations. Lucky are those who believe, but we are all noobs as there is no legal way to achieve anything through our effort here IMO.
Tho that lack of informations is understandable, I still like to dream and speculate how things could be better for all.

 

[The Nightbird]

All you need is the exact time for the drops to disprove mine

 

[Remus]

13/62 almost = 5/12 so around every 5 drops you get something. Go back to the same spot a couple of times/different days and do the same run, then compare your results.

Actualy, there were only 40 drops. Some point numbers got lost while I was writing data in CAR. Also, claims use their own numbers.

So, we have 13/40 and thats damn close to presumed 25%

I am glad someone actualy threw a look on my chart and found some points I intentionaly missed in my first post.

Thanks

 

[Lana]

Well i still belive that all is Random. My claims seems very random

Regards.

Lana

 

[Remus]

Actually this kinda makes sense about veins. You had 0 single claims, every claim was close to another one.

We can see many "patterns" that we want to see. But on an empty piece of paper odds are still the same.

Not to mention that my first hit on this chart was ample(IX). Without it, veins or no veins, its still the same: We run around in dark, not really knowing what we are doing, and hoping for that hit (or two) that will decide if we won or lost.

Also a proposition for readers of this thread: If enough people show interest, Ill make a small (graphical) application that illustrates which patterns emerge when you have 25% chance to hit. I am not stating that this is the way things work, just want to illustrate how interesting behaviors emerge from very simple and cheap rules.

 

[Remus]

All you need is the exact time for the drops to disprove mine

I come in peace

Could you make chart like mine (without irrelevant details) and show us your results after beating the system (no need to tell us the secret timing)?

 

[The Nightbird]

I come in peace

Could you make chart like mine (without irrelevant details) and show us your results after beating the system (no need to tell us the secret timing)?

Currently 4.898 seconds, do it yourself

 

[Remus]

Well i still belive that all is Random. My claims seems very random

Regards.

Lana

That was actually my intent to show. I am a bit fed up with dreaming in matrix.
Still, I would like for things to be a bit different, as EU as project deserves more IMO.

 

[The Nightbird]

Currently 4.898 seconds, do it yourself

To clarify, I can't make one. I use a tool to measure time but I can't also make it record when I make drops.

 

[Remus]

Currently 4.898 seconds, do it yourself

Nice one

Thanks.

 

[Franck]

25% hit rate, 90% return TT-wise on the long run is what I want to believe in.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the system and the link to CAR, Remus

 

[Mcalhoun333]

25% hit rate, 90% return TT-wise on the long run is what I want to believe in.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the system and the link to CAR, Remus

That would certainly help me. I'm taking Quantitative Chemical Analysis this year and we have to accurately measure out mass to 3 decimal places, and I never have had an addictive personality, so I'd definatly be more apt to mine if there was rhyme and reason to the process. *hint hint Marco*

 

[Remus]

25% hit rate, 90% return TT-wise on the long run is what I want to believe in.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the system and the link to CAR, Remus

You are welcome, and I am glad you liked CAR. I like to spend time playing with it.

 

[WoenK]

That was actually my intent to show. I am a bit fed up with dreaming in matrix.
Still, I would like for things to be a bit different, as EU as project deserves more IMO.

Why should it deserve more ?
Why should somebody who break the code get a reward ?
How could they protect their system to not make it exploitable ?
The system is surely not completely random but complex enough to make it appear random.
If you believe in a theory and are happy with it, that's ok.
I drop my bobs and probes at random in areas I know what to find, gives me the same return rate as any theory (and I rather lost more following perception gains instead of following my guts).

Isn't it amazing, that after all those aeons peple still believe in patterns ?
Even astrology ? even though it has been proven that those constellations look very different from other points in the universe, because the stars are not even close together ?!

 

[Remus]

Currently 4.898 seconds, do it yourself

I thought a little about periodicity problem, and here is my serious answer this time.

A function that doesnt have repeating period is not really a function but more like "stack" of "some" values. Thus making it unpredictable.

What we have here (IMO) is something very similar to FOREX (foreign exchange) charts. (btw No metter how unpredictable and risky, FOREX is an non centralized exchange that is not considered gambling ) A bunch of buyers and sellers from cheap skates (like me) to international banks form its unique and mathematicaly unpredictable curves. It is kinda scary and beautiful at same time.

This picture bellow is stacked or aggregated (I am not sure about right English word) random output constrained only to -1, 0 and 1 as output.
I am fairly sure that it best describes nature of hidden parameters in EU. If you dont have it served on a plate, but only some small sequences you would also be prone (as all humans) to suspect that it actualy has some period.

Enjoy

 

[N. Radioactive]

That's a very interesting paper.

 

[The Nightbird]

I thought a little about periodicity problem, and here is my serious answer this time.

A function that doesnt have repeating period is not really a function but more like "stack" of "some" values. Thus making it unpredictable.

What we have here (IMO) is something very similar to FOREX (foreign exchange) charts. (btw No metter how unpredictable and risky, FOREX is an non centralized exchange that is not considered gambling ) A bunch of buyers and sellers from cheap skates (like me) to international banks form its unique and mathematicaly unpredictable curves. It is kinda scary and beautiful at same time.

This picture bellow is stacked or aggregated (I am not sure about right English word) random output constrained only to -1, 0 and 1 as output.
I am fairly sure that it best describes nature of hidden parameters in EU. If you dont have it served on a plate, but only some small sequences you would also be prone (as all humans) to suspect that it actualy has some period.

Enjoy

All I can reply to this is that at one point, 3 people were very interested in my cycle theory and set out to find it. At that point, I did not share my period findings, yet all 3 found the same period value I did. Those 3 did not collaborate (they reported their finds to me separately over a period of 2 months), and I doubt they even knew each other. If it was just a matter of human perception, any number would be good, so it was extremely unlikely that 4 people approaching this problem individually would arrive at the same answer.

 

[Rutabaga]

Without it, veins or no veins, its still the same: We run around in dark, not really knowing what we are doing, and hoping for that hit (or two) that will decide if we won or lost..

That is the smartest thing I've ever read in the EU forum regarding mining tactics.

+rep

 

[Kuber]

Well i still belive that all is Random. My claims seems very random

Regards.

Lana

Knowing what I know of Entropia and the mechanics (and purpose) behind it, it does seem to me that the chance of striking a claim is indeed completely random.

I believe they've programmed it so that certain ores do always appear in certain places geographically, and the ores in general perhaps appear at a general depth range that is reachable with different equipment, but once you have the right ranged equipment and are in the right area, the chance of striking a claim is then completely random.

It's the random quality that maximizes the input of money and mitigates the output of money.

 

[Harvest]

um, I think its just the smoke I finally looked at the poll

The 25% hit rate may be true but that just doesnt matter.

When you start adding amps in to it and other things such as resource need and the legendary loot flag, it becomes close to unpredictable. Sure I seen this long ago but amping throws a monkey wrench into this and resource need throws the other . You may maintain this 25% rate but you will lose hard at the bottom of the sine

 

[Antronius]

LOL! Actually I do see a pattern. 85% of your hits produced deposits south/behind (or north/ahead depending on the direction you were traveling) the probe drop!

Just commenting on the coincidence - don't try to make a theory out of it people.

Hm. I expected to see Legion post here.



/\

 

[orlando]

I thought a little about periodicity problem, and here is my serious answer this time.

A function that doesnt have repeating period is not really a function but more like "stack" of "some" values. Thus making it unpredictable.

What we have here (IMO) is something very similar to FOREX (foreign exchange) charts. (btw No metter how unpredictable and risky, FOREX is an non centralized exchange that is not considered gambling ) A bunch of buyers and sellers from cheap skates (like me) to international banks form its unique and mathematicaly unpredictable curves. It is kinda scary and beautiful at same time.

This picture bellow is stacked or aggregated (I am not sure about right English word) random output constrained only to -1, 0 and 1 as output.
I am fairly sure that it best describes nature of hidden parameters in EU. If you dont have it served on a plate, but only some small sequences you would also be prone (as all humans) to suspect that it actualy has some period.

Enjoy

I think this theory its not fitting also to me,I will agree that is an algoritm(in another one algoritm) for example like a shufle when you listen music on winamp,but not the same,its just an example.But all make the result to see it an random drop and you got something you believe that you`re lucky,the lucky ones,but trully you`re not at the casino,even there after all,after the algorithms used there are a lot of cameras who are watching,that makes you to think,am I the lucky guy or should I must enjoy the choice of them?Here we can say that nobody watching you,just you fall in that algorithm,with a choice or not,you`re in,than enjoy it.

 

[The Nightbird]

If you're up to it I'd like to see a small carpet bomb run, no rebomb, maybe just 100 probes 100meters apart, in a 1000x1000m square (10x10 probes). Find a nice flat area to do this. How are you drawing the circles and finds? Did you write a small program for yourself? I hope it's not manual

 

[Remus]

All I can reply to this is that at one point, 3 people were very interested in my cycle theory and set out to find it. At that point, I did not share my period findings, yet all 3 found the same period value I did. Those 3 did not collaborate (they reported their finds to me separately over a period of 2 months), and I doubt they even knew each other. If it was just a matter of human perception, any number would be good, so it was extremely unlikely that 4 people approaching this problem individually would arrive at the same answer.

In which way your actual results manage to escape statistics?

If you're up to it I'd like to see a small carpet bomb run, no rebomb, maybe just 100 probes 100meters apart, in a 1000x1000m square (10x10 probes). Find a nice flat area to do this. How are you drawing the circles and finds? Did you write a small program for yourself? I hope it's not manual

As I mentioned before in this thread, I record my activity manually and use CAR for graphical representation (for now). If I find anything interesting, worth of additional work, I would make some form of semi-automatic noting and charting.

As I dont deposit, I dont have that luxury to make rigid experiments. But could be interesting in some other environment.

 

[Remus]

That is the smartest thing I've ever read in the EU forum regarding mining tactics.

+rep

I just managed to articulate in English how I feel since 2006. here.
Thanks. Much appreciated.

 

[Remus]

Thanks to huge feedback (compared to my expectations) on this poll I have uploaded my sample application. Pretend that you really mine and observe. Try it a few times. And enjoy.
If anyone has any idea worth implementing I am willing to do so.

Files are accessible from this THREAD