Peititon: re-enable T in space

[narfi]

....

Need more action in space
....

In order for there to be more action in space it needs to be MORE accessible not LESS accessible.

You are looking at this completely backwards and mixing in a different issue that is not part of the discussion here.

If it takes too long to travel people wont fly to other planets,

If people don't fly to other planets they wont cycle peds on other planets,

If people don't cycle peds on other planets then they wont have loot on other planets,

If people don't have loot on other planets they wont hire a mothership/privateer to transport them!!!!!

These are very basic, simple, and logical steps, which have nothing at all to do with any actual function of Motherships, please stop mixing that in to the conversation of a serious issue.

As a MS owner you need to look at the big picture, without the players and without the planets you have ZERO business at all. The only way to increase business for Motherships is to increase overall traffic between planets.

You will make much more ped from a single player if they fly every day with you (one way in quad, one way with your ship for transporting goods) than if you fly them both directions once a week.

Please turn T back on in space!

narfi

 

[Farmer Smurf]

T is not realistic. Think this game should be as much realistic as possible. In real life if you lets say have ability fly into space you cant T or logof and again log.

If you requesting to make T work again you requesting all space safe place to fly, so no one will use ms or privatier services.

I for one do not spend hours a day sweating, crafting, mining or hunting space mobs, for it to "feel realistic" I do it to enjoy my video game time, and for it to be a escape for reality. When I play "games" I want instant gratification, and simple hassle free game experience. I am sure I am not alone in this thinking.

As for not using a MS service, because the T teleport function is removed, is nonsense. I am far more likely to fly in my vtol afk for a hour, than I am to spend 5 min looking for the right ship to enter since I can not just hit T and arrive on the MS.

I have maintained a subscription on various ships, and crewed for a couple as well. IMO there are only 2 reasons I ever spend time or money on a Mother ship

1. The ability to travel logged off, any MS serves this role regardless of SI

I can already use my vtol and fly afk for free easy, the only reason to pay someone else to do it for me, is safety of my loot. that safety comes from being logged out. BTW I would never trust my loot to leave my control and be loaded into the ships control as some suggest from time to time..I would simply stop traveling and play less.

2. Skilling and hunting!

this is where the SI of the ship matters, I have tried to skill pilot, both in low SI privateer and in very high SI ship (the dreadnaught before ownership changed). The large SI ship is a real pleasure to hunt and skill with, even repair skilling is easier on a large SI ship...however I would say the low SI ship was a most unpleasant experience when hunting.

imo limiting T does nothing to make me want to use a MS more, it only makes it harder to find the MS and makes it easier to say "never mind"" and just fly afk. removing log out feature would simply cancel my need for MS use at all for loot transport. would remove my trust in the ship/owner/crew and make me a fearful and nervous passenger. (really not a good position to purposefully put paying customers I think).

 

[jaywalker]

Last night , it took me 47 minutes to fly from Ark to RT in my quad, promptly logging off at the usual T-points. I might have done it in 40 min, if not detained by pirates at the Arkadia end- but that's normal. It might have taken much longer, but I had the good luck not meet pirates at the other end, and not to suffer any accidental DC along the way

And there are people here who think this is unreasonably fast, and needs to be curtailed?

And that this kind of travel is too safe?

I cut short my hunt on Arkadia because I needed to be at RT to join the mothership I work on. I guess those same people think it would be a whole lot better for the economy if I didn't hunt at all?

jay

 

[jaywalker]

annnd it just took me 75 minutes to fly from RT to caly- a really short hop as they go, because

A) I misjudged the T-point (er, DC-point) so i got pput waaay back, just as some would prefer
B) getting repeatedly set back by pirates

space is full enough of frustration for a quad pilot. Absolutely no need to add more.

And does tonight's exoerience bring in more business for motherships? quite the oppsite It means I never managed to join ToS Normandie in time to advertise her services on Ark.

 

[Fifth]

Y-day i suddenly got an idea i need a few Rage 5 (a tiny blp amp).
Crafting terminal said i have all bp's & ingredients, except 1 ore, that was available only on Ark auction atm.
So, jumped into me quad, flew to Ark, bought the stuff, flew back and crafted the amps.

Didn't bother logging off at certain points, made some coffee instead.
Now i'm reading this topic and i'm a bit confused... u say the game's not playable if u can't use T on server borders?
Er... u sure we're playing the same game?

... goods are being moved about too easily by quad (even though that hardly ever happens) ...

If transporting the loot with quads/sleips "hardly ever happens", why the heck are the pirates still around?
U think they are there just to provide us with the free entertainment?

This is a good example how many different player groups and playstyles there is in EU.
It's also a good example about how easy it is to forget this, and presume everybody's like you.


To avoid misundestanding - i'm NOT against bringing back "T", and not a die-hard fan either.
"T" is not the solution, what space needs is the real changes, not playing around with some cosmetic odds and ends.

 

[jaywalker]

If transporting the loot with quads/sleips "hardly ever happens", why the heck are the pirates still around?
U think they are there just to provide us with the free entertainment?

Yep some of them don;t really care much about loot, believe it or not, they just enjoy what they do . And for those who do care , there are always loads of travellers who neglected to empty their inventory properly, because the system doesn't make it very easy to check. Looks like you missed that point.

Such travellers can provide a big bonanza at times (eg i know of one case where a big-time crafter went out hunting pirates without checking his containers first)

Didn't bother logging off at certain points, made some coffee instead.

Surprise, surprise, That's exactly what i said: people who (purposely) carry stackables don't use T to cut distances, so disabling T has no effect at all on the deliberate movement of resources by quad, inasmuch as it happens at all (you don't say that you ever carry 20k PED worth of stuff to re-sell in this same way, do you? and that when you do that, you also server hop to save time? Or that you know anybody who does or would )

You have to take these arguments in context. That was in response to the ridiculous assertion that people who who travel by quad, using T were underming the ecomomy and doing motherships out of business. If you carry a tiny bit of ore without doing any server-hopping, that info doesn't undermine my counter-argument at all (unless for somebody who can't be arsed with following the thread...well, OK that's quite possibly most posters)

Now i'm reading this topic and i'm a bit confused... u say the game's not playable if u can't use T on server borders?
Er... u sure we're playing the same game?

I'll leave it to whoever it was made such a sweeping statement answer this point. Looks to me as if most posters, like myself, just think removal of T increases the frustration of space travel almost to breaking point. But that's not merely because we sometimes used it at server borders. There's a bunch of other reasons that you've somehow overlooked

This is a good example how many different player groups and playstyles there is in EU.
It's also a good example about how easy it is to forget this, and presume everybody's like you.

Errrr, just to be sure there;s no misunderstanding, very few of the players that I've referred to, in my numerous examples were really myself. And few them think or play in the same way as me. Where I've used myself as example, i've made it very clear (eg, by saying "me" )

jay

 

[aia]

In a real cash economy having to pay for accelerating things that usually take longer is an fundamental part.

On planet I use my TP-chip if I need to move fast. That way I can go pretty much anywhere I want, including "middle island" (yes I spent around 1000 ped to finish the missions to be able to go there).

The willingness of players to pay and safe time is the main reason why our avatars contain value in themself due to the skills that we build up.

Can you tell me what advantage with my skills I have when using your preferred way of travel; as a passenger on a mothership?

(Some combat professions and teleporting+mindforce average)


A clear change that was done recently that did devalue skills (read: HP giving skills), whas when *everyone* got 10 HP when floating around in space and leaving us floating for a longer time. Before the change someone with a higher number of total skills (HP) (well, and uberarmor but that's another thing) had a higher chance to survive at least one shot than before. And when time is longer pirates have more time to fire more than one shot.

While what is currently asked here is to give players back a shortcut for free

If you manage to reach a server area border you managed the toughest part - to evade pirates camping a space station. What is it you get for free? Some reduced oil that's way less than the planet entry fee? And if you arrive at a space station by a planet you risk having to wrestle pirates again... unless you use pay TP which costs +5 ped.

if that happened to any of the skills you all have build up there would be a huge outkry of how this would damage the markup of your skills.

Well, I spent some PEDs to build up my skills. In VU 9, using plan ME, in VU 10.0 with tons of relogs that zapped my skills (which I weren't aware of). And I'm still skilling (though skill gains at my level is negligable). For me it's been the lack of mindforce gear that has stopped me (I still have no wormhole chip to complement my TP-chip with).

With the introdution of space I can hardly say that the value of my skills have gone up.

And yes Jay i think warp is way to fast and that there should be different travel speeds based on the level of warp drive used

Maybe to make a difference between the warp engine level, maybe the warpmines should actually be useful. Maybe, for instance, last a resonable time (like a few hours so there is a chance a ship will get caught), and reduce the SI of a hit ship with a percentage - higher percentage with higher level warp mines.

And on the other hand better protection for motherships then like the possibility to have a gunner protecting the rear.

 

[John B Knight]

Yes Aia, you pay for your TP chip for each jump to be faster at a target location then by foot.
Your skills have markup because other players want to progress faster then they normally could, this statement of mine was not limited to space but a general one.
Yes thats right Aia, you save oil but you also safe time which equals money - but who said that traveling should be expensive if utilizing one of the slowest means of transport ? Of course it should be cheap - everywhere in entropia you have the choice of time/effort vs money.
The warp mines do already work and effect the drives and they do have alot longer activity time then whats stated in the dropmessage - though you wont see many pirates using them as they do cost some peds and pirates still have no way to get to the loot as long as people can transport stackables logged off.
The point however is its only taking a minute to warp through the universe - a single privateer or mothership could transport the entirety of all people who want to travel in space with the current transport concept in place and this shouldnt be the case - there needs to be a way to keep ships occupied to allow all of them to become operative.
As long as space can be skipped many ships will keep sitting idle.
There is so many privateers that hardly get used who could cover the less busy times between planets and fullfill special requests , just like the motherships could run the heavy load times - but in the way its currently designed we wont see this happening without a major change towards a space that cant be skipped and is actually considered as a part of the game meant to play with content in it.
Logged out transport and utilizing T might look to be some very different topics on first view, but they have a similar impact on players view of what space is - far to many players think of space as something that requires half an hour afk or logging out of the game to watch a webpage or play another game meanwhile - this cant really be the goal.
Because of this view many think they need a shortcut past the 'boring' / 'risky' content. But for both of these worries there should be ingame solutions and not ones that happen by skipping the game experience.

 

[Wistrel]

I want to sign against this

 

[jaywalker]

Logged out transport and utilizing T might look to be some very different topics on first view,

If by "utilising T" , yo u mean "utilising T to revive-hop", please say so.

Even though reminders frequently appear on the log-in screen that T can be used to get unstuck in various situations, a large number of posters in this thread are either completely forgetting that fact, or else feel that getting unstuck without calling on Support for assistance is also some kind of exploit that ought to be stopped


Please make your stance on this clear.

Thank you

jay

 

[jaywalker]

accidental re-post, but hey! I've thought of something else needs saying.

When you attempt to T in space in space, you get this message (or something very similar)

YOU CANNOT T WHILST IN A VEHICLE

"whilst in a vehicle" it says, not "whilst in space". This suggests to me that Mindark's intention was exactly as stated, and that they overlooked the fact that this precludes T-ing at all whilst in space.

If so, all this speculation as to why they would want to stop us T-ing in space, and all this approval for their supposed motivations is redundant. Off-topic, even (though i wouldn't go so far as to get it deleted as off-topic)

And I've just thought of yet another use for T , which hasn't been mentioned so far:

When hunting on planet, and I need to leave to leave my PC, I will sometimes press T, to avoid being afk (or else re-logging into) a dangerous situation. I have not had to do this in space, because I don't carry stackables by quad, however I can see that it would sometimes be indispensable if I did.

This is surely not an exploit. Contrary to what some would like to see, there is no indication that MA intends that an ava should be indefinitely in danger of being looted, whilst the player is not in control of that ava. Teleport to revive is one of the safeguards against this.

jay

 

[narfi]

I went to rescue someone at a mid point station last night who had run out of fuel.

They told me they had spent 10-15 minutes sitting in their quad trying to figure out how to get out before they finaly had to relog.

It is wrong to have players trapped this way with no alternative but to log out.

narfi

 

[Wistrel]

I want to sign against this

I actually misunderstood.... but I still don't want to be on this list. Not that it really matters

 

[John B Knight]

I went to rescue someone at a mid point station last night who had run out of fuel.

They told me they had spent 10-15 minutes sitting in their quad trying to figure out how to get out before they finaly had to relog.

It is wrong to have players trapped this way with no alternative but to log out.

narfi

Aye there should be an autoeject when running out of fuel, since the passive fuelconsumption can no longer be continued

 

[Terminator]

Aye there should be an autoeject when running out of fuel, since the passive fuelconsumption can no longer be continued

John.

I vote yes for re-enable T, even if it takes same time to deco/reco, wait for death than it took to just T and wait... Deco/reco decays my GC.

 

[jaywalker]

Aye there should be an autoeject when running out of fuel, since the passive fuelconsumption can no longer be continued

You're not serious?

If we don't want to passively consume fuel, we can just sit in the back seat...so long as we don't have a passenger.

Hmm, but if we DO have a passenger, there's now no way (short of exiting the game -which some want to also disallow) to avoid passively consuming fuel when stuck. Yet another drawbackto the loss of T.

Anyway it's no use addressing these issues one by one. We all know that MA have left bugs in-game for years, and bring in a new crop with each new vu. And that some of these issues are not even caused by bugs as such. And that some of them are the kind of thing that ypu wouldn't even think of til it happens.

So we can talk and talk of what MA could do to resolve all these issues, but we all know very well that little or nothing will ever get done in practice. T was invented for a reason : as a catch-all solution for all those diverse situations that will never get fixed any other way


jay

 

[jaywalker]

I actually misunderstood.... but I still don't want to be on this list. Not that it really matters

kk name removed

jay

 

[John B Knight]

T was invented for a reason : as a catch-all solution for all those diverse situations that will never get fixed any other way

Im 100% with you on that Jay it was created as a catch-all with a broad usage possibilty in mind - which is the exact reason why it still will provide those possibities even in environments where the design was meant for different usage.
Just like the new public access settings were created as a catch-all instead of being specific and we are just at the start of really seeing what can or worms that will open.
Catch-all solutions might be good for temporary solving issues, but are not good for designing specific content and game experience.

 

[aia]

Im 100% with you on that Jay it was created as a catch-all with a broad usage possibilty in mind - which is the exact reason why it still will provide those possibities even in environments where the design was meant for different usage.

Pretty much noone had any complaints how "T" worked before(*) - well until space came. And even then most people didn't complain about it. I don't even think anyone had any objective for it to be used during TP-runs.

Just like the new public access settings were created as a catch-all instead of being specific and we are just at the start of really seeing what can or worms that will open.

I guess a problem with public access is that it creates unexpected "revivals" - but as a convenient way to allow anyone to ride I can't see any problem with it. The problem is more the privateers - that there is no way of just leaving them (if you can't/don't want to remove you from GL).

Catch-all solutions might be good for temporary solving issues, but are not good for designing specific content and game experience.

"Catch-all solutions" like disabling "T" *everywhere* when inside a vehicle, regardless if you're in a quad in space, a pitbull in pvp4 or you (as a beginner) just can't figure out how to leave a vehicle if you've gotten a free ride to a TP but you know about the "T" function?

Again, I don't think the saving in time by using "T" is that big.
First, if you look at latest spacemap, you see that the "outposts" have been moved outwards a bit on the map so it's harder to save any distance by T:ing (except, possibly, going in a straight line like Calypso->NI but there on the other hand there is not much competing with mothersip traffic).
Secondly, if you want to go cheap you want to land on planet and not use the pay-TP from space station, and if you want to land on planet you usually want to keep a big distance from the space station - this using "T" and arriving at planet spacestation is usually a bad idea. (Or, if you do want to go to space station for a reason and you use the pay TP, you pay 5 ped more than landing by yourself - so no ped saved).

I should add the times I've been shotdown in space has been when trying to get to a planet after having left a mothership. In that sense I would probably be safer going the entire distance by myself... and one of the timewasters for me (besides getting shot down myself) has been pirates delaying warping by shooting. (At one time they even said "We won't let you leave".)

(*) There were complains when a 10 second delay was added when reviving. And there were some issues during one landgrab when revive delay was ment to be significantly longer but in some cases the extra delay was skippable. And a few people missed the possibility to do "tp-runs" and spy around as "ghosts". And the revival line west of Billys (VU -9) was a gotcha. (Well that revival line and Bivo outpost were mostly nasty surprises than "T" problems. The revival line west of Tory Center could also be mean if you weren't aware of it, but if you were it was a welcome ride back to civilisation when you've been at the rig.)

 

[John B Knight]

I should add the times I've been shotdown in space has been when trying to get to a planet after having left a mothership.

offtopic:
In fact you should note the names of motherships who cant protect you uppon leave and avoid them in future and you should warn others about such ships if it happens. Paying for a secure service means it has to be delivered as such.

 

[.Stagger]

offtopic:
In fact you should note the names of motherships who cant protect you uppon leave and avoid them in future and you should warn others about such ships if it happens. Paying for a secure service means it has to be delivered as such.

1st ship to report of being unable to deliver proper protection:
Normandie - John black knight

ontopic:
Removing T from space makes this game more realistic,
ofcourse every1 abusing T the most will vote against..
the way it is now.. is the way it is supposed to be. Keep it removed!

 

[Serica]

-/ Mod's Note /-
This thread is about re-enabling T in Space, following its recent removal by MA.

 

[jaywalker]

Removing T from space makes this game more realistic,
ofcourse every1 abusing T the most will vote against..
the way it is now.. is the way it is supposed to be. Keep it removed!

Yeah, well, i'm sure we can live without you T-ing to the nearest revive to gloat, after shooting someone down. There had to be an upside somewhere.

On the other hand, I expect you've already sussed all the places where players will most likely get stuck, then find themselves unable to T. And you're patrolling those places, to assist in their swift removal to revive, I expect.

Oh yes! and when you chase someone to the server border you can save a shitload of ammo by waiting til they try to revive- hop, at which point they will get detached from their quad, and only need shooting once or twice.

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly the way things were meant to be

jay

PS Damn, I missed the barney between you, Alaina and JBK, but np, i can imagine it

 

[.Stagger]

Yeah, well, i'm sure we can live without you T-ing to the nearest revive to gloat, after shooting someone down. There had to be an upside somewhere.

On the other hand, I expect you've already sussed all the places where players will most likely get stuck, then find themselves unable to T. And you're patrolling those places, to assist in their swift removal to revive, I expect.

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly the way things were meant to be

jay

PS Damn, I missed the barney between you, Alaina and JBK, but np, i can imagine it

yes i did T after making a kill for pure luxury,
no i dont mind that it's removed now.
no i dont go sit in the middle of nowhere to wait for someone, as its plain stupid to do so.

and yeah.. i missed alaina too..
the only problem is JBK and forum trolls (like u jay) can't keep their nose out of our private forum sex.

 

[Venture Bros]

Solution:

Log out and log back in, you will not be in your ship and will be TP when you drown, OR you can simply walk around and use a teleport chip to save travel time.

 

[NevadaJake]

Aren't we sitting ducks for 60 seconds once we press T? Using oil and soaking up pirate shots without moving at all. Can someone explain what is so bad about that? Especially if we can DC with a similar result?

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

/signed

Xandra MadMaiden Xandottir

Have fun!

 

[JustinStarry]

This topic reminds me a lot of a vu back in ... early 2007 ? (I've been looking thru the release notes, but I can't see which one it was .. anyone else recall it ?).

Up until that VU, dying had a longer timer than hitting T (30secs?). So it was almost routine practice that, when you died, you hit T to get to the revive faster (10secs?). I dont recall the exact times, but it was something like 30secs to automatically revive on dying but only 10secs to hit T.

MindArk decided that was an exploit and changed the system to the way it is now instead.

My guess is that, in disabling T in space, MindArk has decided that it's use to reduce travel times by quad/sleip is an exploit. In which case, they're not likely to change it back, petition or not.

This is what everyone else on my FL and me figured out as soon as T was taken away from Space . So many people T'd to shorten travel time (and save fuel)... obviously it's not part of the gameplay, nor is it something that MA wanted people to know about. Doing it even feels like an exploit. (You don't see a "helpful tip when loading client that says: You can press T to shorten space travel when at server lines!")

However, MA isn't dumb. They knew that when T is removed, Logging off and Logging on creates the same exploit.

Serica, if what you say is true, that MA decided to take the "exploit" of T'ing when dead, and making it the "normal time to revive", it seems to lend to the conclusion that MA will just make quads disappear at server lines and reappear at the next SS, automatically without pressing T or logging off!

Sign me up Jay /Justin Jorel Starry