Valkyrus Vega
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Hmm that makes sense...wow. But is it not also creating a dangerous precedent, i mean tat what you says is really treu we make all violations, small or big, we do all....
Please Help 120k peds Mistake!
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Hmm that makes sense...wow. But is it not also creating a dangerous precedent, i mean tat what you says is really treu we make all violations, small or big, we do all....
Gewitter
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But there is no other way. Otherwise they will lose the trust of significant quantity of players. But...lets see...
montekis
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Not that avatar under the magnifying glass. But ofc., if what Gewitter speculated is true, MA should investigate both parties.
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I presume I have missed the boat with brining this point so late, but the way I see it was it all came down to the lack of one word... each.
Surely it would be simple enough to add a tick box when creating the auction for "each" or "all".
Anyway, fascinating discussion, following with interest. Hope a solution is found that leaves neither part nor the game worse off, if such a thing were possible.
Surely it would be simple enough to add a tick box when creating the auction for "each" or "all".
Anyway, fascinating discussion, following with interest. Hope a solution is found that leaves neither part nor the game worse off, if such a thing were possible.
Dan59
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Are you insinuating that is illegal?
Every purchase is contract no need to be on paper signed by contracting parties and certified by a notary or court.
As I mentioned is not a mistake but a lie or we can consider it as attempt to manipulate auction prices.
Yes I agree with you - is illegal in both cases.
So contract is null.
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Gewitter
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If we follow your logic, my contract (Terramaster 8 Gold Rush for ~1800 PED's) is null too. It was sold some time later at auction for 19000 PED. Buyer was happy! I recieved from support just 'sorry for your loss' and nothing more.
Therefore, I think contract is NOT null.
Dan59
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The fact that Europe has not yet developed and adopted the relevant legislation about internet and acts in the virtual environment does not mean that individual cases are properly solved.
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I just waiting for MA decision in the MJ case, just to understand, how acts MA, selectively, or rules are the same for all.
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Unfortunately it's the same with everyone's fixes (in this thread and elsewhere). MA can add as much double, triple, quadruple checking and checkboxes all over the place, but people will still make mistakes.
At what point do we say there is enough protection in place? When there are no complaints/mistakes? There will only be two scenarios where you have no mistakes - either the auction system is locked so that no-one can use it, or the game is dead and there is no-one to sell to.
At the end of the day, this comes down to carelessness. Cold, heartless it may be but that's the situation.
I used to play the game back in the day before the auction system - people still made mistakes. Perhaps we should go back to that situation where there was no-one to blame but themselves (yet of course, there were the same trust scams, trade window switching, item/ped drop trades, etc).
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I'm not suggesting another " are you sure?" feature. More that when you choose the desired markup that you wish to list at, you also choose each or all.
For example, you click the starting value up to +68peds. You select "each" . You select buy out and duration.
Or you choose "all" for other possibilities.
Sounds a simple fix in my mind to the current issue.
Of course humans are not infallible and will always make mistakes. It's how we learn from them and learn to implement ways to avoid them in future that counts.
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I'm not suggesting another " are you sure?" feature. More that when you choose the desired markup that you wish to list at, you also choose each or all.
For example, you click the starting value up to +68peds. You select "each" . You select buy out and duration.
Or you choose "all" for other possibilities.
Sounds simple in my mind
Uh-huh, sure.
And then when someone clicks "All" instead of "Each" and sells 2k deeds for the price of one...
Alainax
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Quite possibly, but they certainly couldn't claim that they didn't know that all would be sold for that price, unlike the current system.
Like I said, humans will always make mistakes. I just think it is better to try to understand why these mistakes happen, and design a system which leads to less of them, without over complicating things.
I know bugger all about coding, so have no idea what can or cannot be implemented. I am quite sure however, that more mistakes are made by humans on systems which are difficult or at the very least clunky to operate than on something fine tuned to be user friendly, as an example.
My theory is people ignore warnings when they have to read them all the time,
But when it's a setting you choose, like start bid, buyout, duration, each ...then it should be a bit smoother. You don't often hear people complaining that they thought it was a 3 day auction not 4, as it's a setting they have selected.
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The Jetman
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Aio
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Why not just have a MA dictated sales price for all items? Then there can be no mistakes or errors of judgement.
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All trades are NOT final, and life is not black and white.
The firm I work for has framework Contract with a main client, in fact this framework lasts another 5 years. The rules are clear, the rates agreed for 5 years.
The client requests a discount on the day rates, even though we based our submission on already good terms.
We could tell them to get lost we have a contract, but we didn't we decided to bend to help them, and in turn we're likely to get more work next year.
Now this type of thing happens all the time in real world. This thread is full of the black or white argument.
MA can do what ever they damn well like, if they decide to return the deeds that's up to them. They don't need to explain themselves, or tell us how they came to justify that decision....nothing. Then we can debate for months on end, if and why they made that decision (but we will never know why).
You know bad luck comes for us all in game at some time or other. One day some of those calling for the trade to stand, will be asking for help. I'll just bookmark this thread. Maybe I'll have to pull it out in a year maybe 5 years, but I can guarantee there will come a time for one reason or other that day will come.
It could've ended as a win-win for both parties. Arhhhhh forget it.....I might as well type this....klsndknfdf df df;;jd f;jf d fdljd ggrggsld
Meaningless attempting to have an adult grownup debate in here.
Rick
The firm I work for has framework Contract with a main client, in fact this framework lasts another 5 years. The rules are clear, the rates agreed for 5 years.
The client requests a discount on the day rates, even though we based our submission on already good terms.
We could tell them to get lost we have a contract, but we didn't we decided to bend to help them, and in turn we're likely to get more work next year.
Now this type of thing happens all the time in real world. This thread is full of the black or white argument.
MA can do what ever they damn well like, if they decide to return the deeds that's up to them. They don't need to explain themselves, or tell us how they came to justify that decision....nothing. Then we can debate for months on end, if and why they made that decision (but we will never know why).
You know bad luck comes for us all in game at some time or other. One day some of those calling for the trade to stand, will be asking for help. I'll just bookmark this thread. Maybe I'll have to pull it out in a year maybe 5 years, but I can guarantee there will come a time for one reason or other that day will come.
It could've ended as a win-win for both parties. Arhhhhh forget it.....I might as well type this....klsndknfdf df df;;jd f;jf d fdljd ggrggsld
Meaningless attempting to have an adult grownup debate in here.
Rick
What is "brining this point" - adding salt to it?
Ok, moving past the typo and we get to one of the best suggestions I've seen. It really is an example of being so simple it's brilliant. It is not the same as other warnings, as you also point out in later posts, it is about clicking the intention, i.e. what the person selling is thinking!
Personally, I also think the confirmation box to be accepted should show the total peds expected from any set minimum and the BO, as this will be a different piece of (useful) information each time you sell and not some common as hecked bugged warning that annoys people and makes them more likely to be careless even.
As for those who say that people will always make mistakes, different people make different mistakes for different reasons. Understanding what various groups have problems with and finding workable solutions for them is part of what making improvements is about. One thing is clear, and has been for ages; lots of people who haven't made auction mistakes are sympathetic towards those that have. Improvements may not reduce mistakes to zero, but that is hardly a reason for not taking sensible steps to minimise them.
Finally, I'm envious that I didn't think of this suggestion myself, but my envy comes with a huge smile on my face. Massive high five Alaina!
WOW search is your friend ..
don't cry anymore Mary , you done your fair share of bs ..
How dare you call someone else exploiting the system , while you made ur peds like that.
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ive heard people got perma banned for the constant use of vtol hunting. maybe mary jane should be perma banned as well for it as she obviously made enough peds off of it. that would be the fair outcome of this. perma ban mary jane and let pitbull have his items.
karma is a bitch mary
hopefully MA wont return the AUDS that were bought with illegally obtained money.
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@ Mary Jane situation
Holy crap. There is gazzilion windows in the proces of making auction. Even recently added. I bet if MA add 10 warning windows more noone would read them anyway and click straight away. You forgot we are dealing here with real money ? Major focus is obligatory. A fool and his money are soon parted.
also
I am surprised it took karma so long. Wasnt that amount of peds, by accident, exact amount you exploited out of the game by things like Vtol hunting. Things you were temp banned in the past ?
@ Pitbull situation
This guy did nothing wrong. If 1 day old newbie would do that click on auction it would not be diferent. Trading / reseling is same good activity in RCE like any other. Good ocasional trades happens. In moments like this you not consider, you clik buyout before someone other do. I would BO those deeds too if I saw it first . Then there is time to think out what happened.
Probably most of us would return them. I would return them for sure. Its about personal integrity. But noone is in position to tell you what you have to do, nor force you to do anything.
PPL calling you names mistaken serios RCE game with paper monopoly one. MA locking your account acted inappropriate, hope you soon get unlocked.
@ MA situation
There is hard decision to make. If Pitbull return deeds out of good heart it will be great "phew" for them - relief on not picking one bad choice over another. I gues thats where it all goes atm with contacting and support efforts.
However if Pitbull chose to keep deeds I really hope there is nothing MA will do about that. Final of trade is very basics pillar of ingame economy. Breaking that rule wil be not only dangerous precedence for futher large trades ingame, but it will also start avalanche of not happy from the price ( past trades ). Market is breathing, supply chase demand, every bit information matters, sometimes seconds are matter. Who is MA to judge if every price is fair or not. If they would so they could make fixed price on every item ingame, but that would not be RCE which is luring ppl here with their money.
So yes, its really sad not all trades are fair or nice. Not both parties involved happy. But they should stay be finall anyway, to not break basic economy principles.
Holy crap. There is gazzilion windows in the proces of making auction. Even recently added. I bet if MA add 10 warning windows more noone would read them anyway and click straight away. You forgot we are dealing here with real money ? Major focus is obligatory. A fool and his money are soon parted.
also
I am surprised it took karma so long. Wasnt that amount of peds, by accident, exact amount you exploited out of the game by things like Vtol hunting. Things you were temp banned in the past ?
@ Pitbull situation
This guy did nothing wrong. If 1 day old newbie would do that click on auction it would not be diferent. Trading / reseling is same good activity in RCE like any other. Good ocasional trades happens. In moments like this you not consider, you clik buyout before someone other do. I would BO those deeds too if I saw it first . Then there is time to think out what happened.
Probably most of us would return them. I would return them for sure. Its about personal integrity. But noone is in position to tell you what you have to do, nor force you to do anything.
PPL calling you names mistaken serios RCE game with paper monopoly one. MA locking your account acted inappropriate, hope you soon get unlocked.
@ MA situation
There is hard decision to make. If Pitbull return deeds out of good heart it will be great "phew" for them - relief on not picking one bad choice over another. I gues thats where it all goes atm with contacting and support efforts.
However if Pitbull chose to keep deeds I really hope there is nothing MA will do about that. Final of trade is very basics pillar of ingame economy. Breaking that rule wil be not only dangerous precedence for futher large trades ingame, but it will also start avalanche of not happy from the price ( past trades ). Market is breathing, supply chase demand, every bit information matters, sometimes seconds are matter. Who is MA to judge if every price is fair or not. If they would so they could make fixed price on every item ingame, but that would not be RCE which is luring ppl here with their money.
So yes, its really sad not all trades are fair or nice. Not both parties involved happy. But they should stay be finall anyway, to not break basic economy principles.
montekis
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In theory your lie theory is possible, but logically that doesn't make much sense.
Why over-complicate such a simple thing as an auction?
Once again, why would you like the auction system over-complicated over mistakes that people make because of whatever reasons?
You can add 10 more various steps for example but someone will eventually come up making a mistake and say that 10 is not enough. People should simply pay attention to what they're doing.
What a load of BS.
Maybe one day MA should ban you, me and some other people for no reason? Without any explanation. Like, who cares, right?
Maybe they could just take away something you bought over a total legally legal system, just because someone writes a support case (On a side note: I wonder, was the contents of that support case MJ wrote posted somewhere?) and and makes a fuss on a forum, because why the f**k not? Right?
And then, if you, or your friends be playing after such events and the same just happened to you, you manage to sell all your belongings (some really big number, a lot of ped) for x100 less than they're worth under the influence of something, or because of a mistake, then you ofc. ask the "God" to help, but they're just not into it that day so they just tell you to shove off and not bother them again. Why not, they're God, and as you said "They don't need to explain themselves, or tell us how they came to justify that decision....nothing".
Think.
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Just another case to force MA to update their auction system and the interface.
The interface is small, clunky and confusing. These factors make it so easy to skip through and make mistakes.
With a big screen and high resolution, the auction window is just so damn small. EU made me learn the hard way to quadro check the auction selling/buying window before putting it up.
As for the case with M.Pitbull, that guy is a really fast bidder. Makes you think he uses some sort of 3rd party program to buy automaticly or alert him. If MA locked his account temporary, it must be they found something fishy with the data logs when MA checked it out. An example with data logs would be refresh auctionlist spam every 20 seconds, all day long for example. Stuff like that.
Else I don't see why they temporary locked his account, the trade is made.
The interface is small, clunky and confusing. These factors make it so easy to skip through and make mistakes.
With a big screen and high resolution, the auction window is just so damn small. EU made me learn the hard way to quadro check the auction selling/buying window before putting it up.
As for the case with M.Pitbull, that guy is a really fast bidder. Makes you think he uses some sort of 3rd party program to buy automaticly or alert him. If MA locked his account temporary, it must be they found something fishy with the data logs when MA checked it out. An example with data logs would be refresh auctionlist spam every 20 seconds, all day long for example. Stuff like that.
Else I don't see why they temporary locked his account, the trade is made.
"all trades are finall" is so important and saint rule, that once, when i got scames out of all my items in trade ( yes, it was obvious scam with clearing trade window before accepting and using bug ) ,and scammer admited what he did, only thing MA did was to arrange ingame meeting between me and scamer with official ma avatar as witness. Taking items out of scamer inventory and placing in mine inventory would be lot easier and faster, not mentioning aranging time and place for 3 persons involved. If MA was so carefull to not interfere in "final trade" rule in obvious scam case, i doubt they will do something in a "force way" here.
On the other hand bribing or blackmailing pitbull by MA is not so stupid idea as it seems. Whats make this case special is ofcourse amount of peds. In russia and other eastern europe countries u can make a living 4 years for that amount at normal level
so i bet its not easy for pitbulll either
Noorie
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I dont think it is honest if someone uses a possible weakness in the auction system for personal gain, intentionally setting traps with the sole goal to acquire a substantial amount of someone else's funds.
Considering the large scale of the act, i believe a "one of a kind" exception could be made and void the transaction.
This is just my opinion.
Considering the large scale of the act, i believe a "one of a kind" exception could be made and void the transaction.
This is just my opinion.
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pitbull himself said he bought them by hand and not via order so what you are stating is bullshit though
and dont forget that the peds to buy the auds have been gotten by exploiting the system. if MA gives back the deeds to a known exploiter then id lose all hope for this game and the last tiny bit of trust.
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Was it that kind of trap order?
Or was it order for 2000 AUDs at 58 PED each?
At least I have seen such an order 2 days ago, when checking AUD values - so maybe not a trap order.
The mistake was done by the seller, not by the buyer !
And its not one of a kind, it happend a lot in the past that people sell deeds for way below MU due to mistakes made. The amount of money involved doesn´t matter imho.
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I am so sorry Mary Jane..I hope they see this thread. If they do not help...Hmmm Sad..sad!!! Isn't like the old days.
Please help!
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