real hunting economy

[aridash]

If you want to save money and never deposit again, get Hero..

we see this sort of statement alot round here. anything with good economy is supposed to make you automatically cashflow neutral or profitable.

but i dont get it. The headline number that matters is the economy number, dmg/pec. in the case of the Adj Hero it is 4.30. now consider a near competitor, the AS-98 (similar dmg/sec, max dmg, cost per click) and the number is 4.09. That is a difference of ~5%.

so what im being told is that you hunt at 95% efficency and by using the adj hero you get to 100%, right?

i dont think so.

what am i missing, or why has this myth come about?

(adj hero is an example, could apply to any other adj/imp/mod weapon, or the difference between using a VATxxx or Justifier x)

 

[dbelinfante]

we see this sort of statement alot round here. anything with good economy is supposed to make you automatically cashflow neutral or profitable.

but i dont get it. The headline number that matters is the economy number, dmg/pec. in the case of the Adj Hero it is 4.30. now consider a near competitor, the AS-98 (similar dmg/sec, max dmg, cost per click) and the number is 4.09. That is a difference of ~5%.

so what im being told is that you hunt at 95% efficency and by using the adj hero you get to 100%, right?

i dont think so.

what am i missing, or why has this myth come about?

(adj hero is an example, could apply to any other adj/imp/mod weapon, or the difference between using a VATxxx or Justifier x)

People like to exaggerate. An Adj Hero WILL save you on decay, but it cannot compensate for lack of skills. An IMK2 in my hands will lose me less money than my ML, but it will still lose me money. Simply because I do not have the skills to hunt efficiently.

Once you're maxed out on your weapon, the economy of that weapon might well be a deciding factor in your hunting economy.

 

[Ido]

Remember that also you must consider how efficient you are at using the weapon with the current skill (i.e. how often do you miss)

as far as i can tell with the L weapons its easer to choose a wapon that matches your current skill level (thus maximizing efficiency) there is also a nice guide to those weapons by Jimmy

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49876

 

[andyzammy]

i think it is both true and untrue.
untrue in the sense that you will proffit with every hunt.

true in the sense that while you still may lose, you lose a considerably lot less (yes its only 5%, but if you do 100 hunts (which to a decent hunter is peanuts), it all starts to add up). we all know that luck comes in waves, and yea they may be random, but with these kind of weapons, you don't need as big, or as many waves of good streaks to make up for loss. its just easier.

VIVA LA OPALO!!!

 

[Dan59]

Maybe to use IRL weapon? Its cheaper than EU weapons. It usualy use 1 ammo bulet per shoot and it deal great damage ( one shoot one kill ) .
Or maybe to go hunt IRL - there is always something to loot ( bones, meat, skin ...)

 

[TheLoneRanger]

The whole EU hunting dynamics is in play here. Not only your skills on the weapon, but also the weapon ( combined with your skills ) against the particular mob you're shooting at.

I see differences in the damage done per shot as I shoot different mobs with the same weapon ( and nearly the same skills ).

In general you can say you are able to make the best profit ( or least loss ) if you as much damage possible, with the least decay and quickest time it takes to kill the mob. Least decay ( on weapon, but also count armor + plates + fap ), least ammo used, maximized chance on profit ( or least loss ).

 

[Witte]

It is about the same difference as hunting on a LA or not. IMO these kind of weapons are totaly overhyped. But when the owners of them are happy, its all good

 

[kygon]

we see this sort of statement alot round here. anything with good economy is supposed to make you automatically cashflow neutral or profitable.

but i dont get it. The headline number that matters is the economy number, dmg/pec. in the case of the Adj Hero it is 4.30. now consider a near competitor, the AS-98 (similar dmg/sec, max dmg, cost per click) and the number is 4.09. That is a difference of ~5%.

so what im being told is that you hunt at 95% efficency and by using the adj hero you get to 100%, right?

i dont think so.

what am i missing, or why has this myth come about?

(adj hero is an example, could apply to any other adj/imp/mod weapon, or the difference between using a VATxxx or Justifier x)

I started to break even with hero simply due to the fact it didnt need repairs for weeks if not months, so each naked hunt I only needed to cover the amo and nothing else.

The AS-98 how much decay do you need to cover each hunt? THATS were the difference lies

 

[Witte]

I started to break even with hero simply due to the fact it didnt need repairs for weeks if not months, so each naked hunt I only needed to cover the amo and nothing else.

The AS-98 how much decay do you need to cover each hunt? THATS were the difference lies

Bullox. Decay is the same as ammo, except you dont see a number decrease. Its all in your mind.

 

[Prescott]

the Hero.... what weapon are we talking about exactly?

 

[apache_ZC]

Adjusted Hero: www.pe-wiki.info/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&id=89

 

[Prescott]

hmm if this was a Ped-maker.. woudnt it be more expensive then?

 

[apache_ZC]

hmm if this was a Ped-maker.. woudnt it be more expensive then?

well it doesnt really have a high dmg/sec ratio so that may be the cause...not like I would call 9K exactly cheap

 

[kygon]

Bullox. Decay is the same as ammo, except you dont see a number decrease. Its all in your mind.

huh so gun 1 NEEDS 150 ped repair each hunt vs gun 2 that NEED 0 ped repair each hunt

so each gun uses 200 ped of ammo so

BLP you NEED 200 ped to cover amo and 150 ped to cover decay
ADJ Hero you NEED 200 ped to cover amo and the gun can hunt many more hunts with no repairs so please explain the bollox?

 

[Prescott]

well it doesnt really have a high dmg/sec ratio so that may be the cause...not like I would call 9K exactly cheap

its all relative i guess
we all make our investments in Entropia, may they be big or small

 

[ZAN ZAN]

You hunted in very different time with your adj hero, when mid mobs gave at least mandatory 70% back on short-ish runs, and 100% on long ones
Edit: Forgot to add, that I was able to break even with plain vanilla MK2 all the time, with 5.0ish HA.
Nevertheless that gun is good, for various other reasons.

I started to break even with hero simply due to the fact it didnt need repairs for weeks if not months, so each naked hunt I only needed to cover the amo and nothing else.

The AS-98 how much decay do you need to cover each hunt? THATS were the difference lies

 

[Kerham]

You hunted in very different time with your adj hero, when mid mobs gave at least mandatory 70% back on short-ish runs, and 100% on long ones

True, but it still decays less than almost any gun around

Bullox. Decay is the same as ammo, except you dont see a number decrease. Its all in your mind.

Overall, I agree with you. On 200 ped ammo runs, I disagree with you

 

[kygon]

True, but it still decays less than almost any gun around

and i found that having to pay 5 ped for adj hero vs 200 for blp+amp combo made the difference between break even and lose.

 

[Witte]

huh so gun 1 NEEDS 150 ped repair each hunt vs gun 2 that NEED 0 ped repair each hunt

so each gun uses 200 ped of ammo so

BLP you NEED 200 ped to cover amo and 150 ped to cover decay
ADJ Hero you NEED 200 ped to cover amo and the gun can hunt many more hunts with no repairs so please explain the bollox?

Obviously, gun 1 does way more damage then gun 2, so you also get way more loot.

It its all about DMG/PEC. Decay is pretty much meaningless, and only has some practical disadvantages (harder to keep track of you expences and need to be repaired more often)

To compare the AS-98 and the hero. Both do about the same damage. AS decay 3 pec, hero 0,25.

However the AS uses 2 ammo less.

 

[Kemp]

Fun vs Boredom

Imagine a nice quiet Friday night at home. Girlfriend is to a friend, friends are in the pub, all work is done and you really deserve a night for yourself....
So, plans to hardcore hunt for a few hours, get some beer in the fridge and some crips in stock...

Slowly the beer comes out of the fridge, the pace of that however gets faster the more you consume... Having fun with your PE soc mates and friends, you are going on a Beacon, or a trip to the rig or just plain silly hunting heavy mobs with a way to big team....

Sure it is one hell of a night, but the next morning you wonder where all those ped went...
They went to uneconomic hunting with to heavy armor on mobs that actually aren't meant for you yet...
They went to all those missed shots because of beer consumed...
Etc..

In this case 4.30 or 4.09 doesn't matter that much anymore. Fact is that economy in PE means boredom^2. If you really want to be eco, you have to:

Hunt for a long period straight, preferably (almost) everyday 4-6 hours.
Hunt the same mob for a long time as in 1-3 months.
Hunt mobs that gave a good average return but hardly give the big/uber/ATH HoFs.
Save up all material that has more value then tt. Sell those at highest %/tt+ in large quantities.
Use the equipment that matches your skills and hunt the mobs that fit that equipment!!

1 example:
If you have 2k rifle skills, all natural so corresponding amounts of secondary skills, you better hunt mid-level mobs like Longu/Armax/Atrox/Atrax in maturities Young/Mature/old with unplated Rascal, MK-II and Fap-50.
You better don't hunt Atrox Dominant and up, or Hogglo in a team with plated Jaguar, EMT-2600 and MK-V ME.
Even though the MK-VE is theoretical way more economic.... You will lose much more!

1 more example:
When you do hunt low-level Troxes with Rascal, MK-II and Fap-50 south of Ithaca, that is wise and you will get nice % on Thin Wool, wood and Fine Hide.
However, it's tempting to also kill the Providers and up, maybe try to kill an Alpha wit 1 or 2 other hunters that are in the area. Maybe you will get that global or HoF...

Maybe not.... Mostly not.... Most globals still come from Young-Old, so stick to them. Hunt yourself to dead by boredom, but be economic....

 

[Prescott]

what mobs are preferable to kill with this gun?
midlevel? lets say.... feffs?

 

[kygon]

what mobs are preferable to kill with this gun?
midlevel? lets say.... feffs?

you can slap a 106 or 204 on it, I used to hunt bots at troy with it (got my 2nd uber with it there too)

Id personally draw the well line before trox alpha

 

[AkiranBlade]

huh so gun 1 NEEDS 150 ped repair each hunt vs gun 2 that NEED 0 ped repair each hunt

so each gun uses 200 ped of ammo so

BLP you NEED 200 ped to cover amo and 150 ped to cover decay
ADJ Hero you NEED 200 ped to cover amo and the gun can hunt many more hunts with no repairs so please explain the bollox?

I think the point Witte is 'not so elequently' trying to put across is that the cost is in there somewhere no matter what.

If you use high decay weapons, they tend to use lower amounts of ammo to achieve their dmg/sec. Use low decay weapons and you will be using much more ammo over the duration of say a 200PED ammo hunt.

The advantage of low decay weapons is that they allow you to keep going for a long long time before you have to visit the repair terminal again. Unfortunately, slapping an amplifier on will negate that ability.

For instance, I could take say 1000 PED of ammo on the Opalo before it broke. Take an amp, and I will have to hit the repair terminal after 200 PED. Those figures aren't accurate and are for explanation purposes only.

 

[Prescott]

hmm ok well i do have the A106, so i guess i could try it out when i get the chance to

 

[AkiranBlade]

Id personally draw the well line before trox alpha

I agree.

 

[kygon]

I think the point Witte is 'not so elequently' trying to put across is that the cost is in there somewhere no matter what.

If you use high decay weapons, they tend to use lower amounts of ammo to achieve their dmg/sec. Use low decay weapons and you will be using much more ammo over the duration of say a 200PED ammo hunt.

The advantage of low decay weapons is that they allow you to keep going for a long long time before you have to visit the repair terminal again. Unfortunately, slapping an amplifier on will negate that ability.

For instance, I could take say 1000 PED of ammo on the Opalo before it broke. Take an amp, and I will have to hit the repair terminal after 200 PED. Those figures aren't accurate and are for explanation purposes only.

not really, I used to use a mix of amps depending on mob size obviously slapping a 106 on the thing it will cost alot more, but put a a201 on it and you have a VERY low decay long lasting combo that will cost tiny amounts in repairs each hunt I KNOW you can do a 600 ped hunt with that setup and the only thing you need to do is repair the small TT of the amp

adj hero also keeps you hunting sensibly, not something you can say about blp, when I used blp I always found myself going for mobs that would eat my peds, with hero due to the lower dmg/sec I always picked 'sensible' mobs

 

[Witte]

not really, I used to use a mix of amps depending on mob size obviously slapping a 106 on the thing it will cost alot more, but put a a201 on it and you have a VERY low decay long lasting combo that will cost tiny amounts in repairs each hunt I KNOW you can do a 600 ped hunt with that setup and the only thing you need to do is repair the small TT of the amp

adj hero also keeps you hunting sensibly, not something you can say about blp, when I used blp I always found myself going for mobs that would eat my peds, with hero due to the lower dmg/sec I always picked 'sensible' mobs

Although these arguments are good tips for eco hunting, they dont say anything about the hero. You can as well take an EP-22 (tt+2PED), and you could write exactly the same.

(ps sorry if I was harsh, i just like being to the point )

 

[kygon]

Although these arguments are good tips for eco hunting, they dont say anything about the hero. You can as well take an EP-22 (tt+2PED), and you could write exactly the same.

yes but you could say the same about any shitty little good econ gun BUT the adj hero has an ok reload, an ok dmg/sec level and great decay

my experiences with EP22 are easy "shitty uninteresting noob TT trash"

my experiences with adj hero "1st gun I ever regularly broke even with, able to hunt ok sized mobs, was fun to use and I hardly ever needed to repair it"

I also owned mkv at the same time as adj hero, I dont think I even broken even regualrary with it, and the only real difference its DECAY

THATS hardly 'eco hunting' tips, and still waiting for the explanation as to my "bollox" comment?

 

[Witte]

yes but you could say the same about any shitty little good econ gun BUT the adj hero has an ok reload, an ok dmg/sec level and great decay

my experiences with EP22 are easy "shitty uninteresting noob TT trash"

my experiences with adj hero "1st gun I ever regularly broke even with, able to hunt ok sized mobs, was fun to use and I hardly ever needed to repair it"

THATS hardly 'eco hunting' tips, and still waiting for the explanation as to my "bollox" comment?

My bollox statment was about you saying that you break even because of low decay. That simply doesnt have anything to do with it. It is only more convenient, thats all.

 

[Prescott]

my take on this is that the decay is very low.... but in the end it all comes down to dmg/pec i think.