Guide: Limited Weapons

Well, after the nerfing of the Sollomate Opalo many of us have had to change weapons. It was my original plan to make use of my 12000 combined rifle+lwt skills and buy a big(ish) laser rifle and kick some ass! But a trial run for a couple of weeks with a Justifier Mk II aborted that plan before it began! OK it took a bit of getting used to some of the other changes, such as animal oils in loot, but on the whole I was just losing too much PED to be able to justify buying an even bigger non-SIB weapon and risk losing even more PED.

The fact is, with a non-SIB weapon I still only have 4.3 HA so I'm missing quite a lot compared to maxed out weapons, and I have about 34% min dmg so I'm getting an average of 67% max per shot rather than 75% max (which is over 10% worse). I reckon the combination of those slashes my economy on that gun (amped) from 4.25 dmg/pec down to about 3.18 dmg/pec. And, worse, I don't even get the dmg/sec I'm expecting (due to the misses and the worse damage range).

So, after a bit of grumbling about paying markup for weapons that were worse than my old Opalo+A106 combination it was time to set about trying out some of the new limitted weapons. However, the problem is that there are a lot of weapons to choose from, sometimes the stats are not readily available anywhere yet, and even if the stats are available they are skewed by the varying markups on the weapons anyway. Hmmm, OK, time to do some calculations then!

What do I need to know?​

Personally, I want to find out the dmg/sec, the dmg/pec and the range that my weapon provides. To work these out we need the following variables:

tt - the tt value of the gun that I'm going to get
ftt - the maximum possible full tt value of the gun
Markup - the markup being offered
Dmg - the damage the gun will provide with the amp I intend to use
Shots - the shots per minute the gun can find
AmmoDecay - the amount of ammo used per shot (gun & amp)
AmpDecay - the amount of pec the amp decays per shot
GunDecay - the amount of pec the gun decays per shot
Range - the range of the gun

How do I find out these things?​

All of these quantities should be immediately apparent from looking at the weapon details, apart from the decay. For the purposes of amps I'm assuming old amps are used so the decay can be found at a site like http://www.pe-wiki.info. The method and calculation outlined below can be fairly easily adapted to cater for the new limited amps.

You may also be able to find the decay of the gun too. If you can't, or the data is unreliable, you need to get hold of one of the guns. A low tt one will do - you just need to be able to fire one shot!

Once you have the gun you just need to calculate the tt of the gun before the shot and subtract the tt of the gun after the shot. To find the tt of an item you need to put it into the tt machine (don't sell!) and add common dung until the displayed tt increases by 0.01 PED. You then need to subtract 0.005 PED from the value showing and further subtract (number of common dung * 0.00001) PED. The result will give you the correct tt of the item to within 0.001 PEC. You'll need to do this before firing the gun and then also afterwards. Subtract the two results and multiply by 100 to find the decay in PEC.

An alternative, easier method involves using the auction (thanks to Kolobok for the suggestion):

To measure a gun's TT value, put the gun into the selling window in the auction, and assign it very high buyout, say +1000000 (don't actually sell the gun, just note it's percentage and then cancel). The ratio of the buyout value and the percentage, multiplied by 100, yields the precise TT value of the gun. Repeat the process after firing one shot and subtract the two results.

How do I calculate the dmg/sec?​

The damage rate is fairly easy to calculate. You need to use the following formula:

dmg/sec = Damage * Shots / 60

Examples:

Sollomate Opalo + A101...8.1 dmg/sec
Breer M2a + A102............14.7 dmg/sec
Breer M3a + A102............14.9 dmg/sec
Sollomate Opalo + A106...19.1 dmg/sec (comparison only)
Svempa S60....................22.7 dmg/sec
Riker UL3 + A105..............28.0 dmg/sec
Korss H400 + A106...........52.3 dmg/sec
Breer P4a + A104.............33.6 dmg/sec
Breer P5a + A106.............51.3 dmg/sec

Effective Markup​

The effective markup is calculated based on the markup, the tt value and the full tt value. It is needed in order to take into account the fact that 3% of the gun cannot be used. If you're feeling lazy you can just use the markup instead but be aware that for already quite damaged guns this will mean your economy is a little worse than you've calculated.

To calculate the Effective Markup use the following formula:

EffMarkup = (Markup * tt - 0.03 * ftt) / (tt - 0.03 * ftt)

OK, so what is my economy then?​

Finally! The big question! The overall economy of the gun & amp is calculated by the following formula:

dmg/pec = Damage / (AmmoDecay + AmpDecay + EffMarkup * GunDecay)

Examples (tt is assumed to be full unless stated, percentages give = Markup):

Sollomate Opalo + A101...4.11 dmg/pec
Sollomate Opalo + A106...4.39 dmg/pec (comparison only )
Range = 55.0

Breer M2a + A102, 100%...4.25 dmg/pec
Breer M2a + A102, 113%...4.19 dmg/pec
Breer M2a + A102, 161%...4.00 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.598, ftt = 39, Range = 60.5

Breer M3a + A102, 100%...4.24 dmg/pec
Breer M3a + A102, 122%...4.11 dmg/pec
Breer M3a + A102, 144%...4.00 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.845, ftt = 43.5, Range = 62.7

Korss H400 + A106, 100%............4.29 dmg/pec
Korss H400 + A106, 200%............3.99 dmg/pec
Korss H400 + A106, 200% tt=40...3.96 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.920, ftt = 177, Range = 35.2

Riker UL3 + A105, 100%............4.25 dmg/pec
Riker UL3 + A105, 150%............3.93 dmg/pec
Riker UL3 + A105, 200%............3.65 dmg/pec
Riker UL3 + A105, 200% tt=40...3.61 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 1.817, ftt = 135, Range = 62.7

Svempa S60, 100%...4.12 dmg/pec
Svempa S60, 124%...3.98 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 1.025, ftt = 90, Range = 26.4

Breer P4a + A104, 100%...4.28 dmg/pec
Breer P4a + A104, 140%...4.15 dmg/pec
Breer P4a + A104, 180%...4.02 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.766, ftt = 188, Range = 25.3

Breer P5a + A106, 100%...4.26 dmg/pec
Breer P5a + A106, 150%...4.12 dmg/pec
Breer P5a + A106, 200%...3.98 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.939, ftt = 222.1, Range = 33

Comparison with non-SIB weapons​

As you skill up, non-SIB guns will become more economical. In order to compare SIB and non-SIB guns we need to consider how much we miss and what our damage range is (for maxed out SIB guns our stats are the same for all guns in this regard so we didn't need to consider it previously).

Min damage %: Take the dmg/sec and dmg/pec figures and multiply them by (1+Min damage %)/2 in order to take into account the fact that you do not hit the max damage each time. For maxed out SIB guns you will be multiplying by 0.75, for non-SIB guns by a slightly lower amount.

Hit Ability: It has been suggested that avatars with HA=10 on a gun miss about 8% of their shots, whilst avatars with HA=0 on a gun miss about 20% of their shots, with a linear progression in between. Whilst I don't think this tells the whole story, its as good an estimate as I have so I'll use it.

To take into account the fact that some shots miss, multiply your dmg/sec and dmg/pec figures by 0.8+0.012*HA.

Examples (with professions Laser Sniper=43, Ranged Laser=40):

Korss H400 + A106...200%......2.75 dmg/pec, 36.1 dmg/sec
Imk2 unamped.........non-SIB...2.71 dmg/pec, 41.4 dmg/sec
mk2 + A106..............non-SIB...2.44 dmg/pec, 23.4 dmg/sec

Calculation Tools​

There's quite a few webpages out there that offer the ability to perform these types of calculations for you. I always think its worth knowing how to perform the calculations yourself, firstly in order to check the tool is providing sensible results but also in case things change and the tool no longer is applicable or is no longer available.

That said, using the tools can save a lot of time. The only one I have checked out in much detail is the wiki one at http://www.pe-wiki.info/Chart.aspx?chart=Weapon. Witte has recently updated it so that it takes into account your profession levels, thus providing a nice comparison between SIB and non-SIB guns. It takes a bit of time to set-up your data the first time round but its very useful so I'd recommend taking the time to do it! Documentation here.

Note that wiki provides the Economy of the gun assuming current market price in the case of L guns. Also beware L guns which haven't yet got a % markup - for these the economy is calculated assuming there is no markup.

There's quite a few other tools out there that I haven't checked out yet. Many have been linked to by people in the responses below and are worth checking out too.

Conclusion​

I am trying to aim for an economy of better than 4.00 dmg/pec at the moment (miss rate and damage range ingnored). Obviously this is fairly easy with a Breer but I'd like something that does at least as much damage as my old Opalo set up. This can certainly be managed with a decent deal on Korss, UL3 or Svempa S60 for instance, but you may have to shop around! Watch out for guns that decay fast - the mark up on these can be a killer (imagine how the poor melee hunters feel)!

Note, that with markup, miss rate and damage range all taken into consideration, the best economy option I can find is Willard Heatray A which weighs in at 2.98 dmg/pec. Obviously you'll be hunting pretty small mobs with that, but it'd make a great economy option for beginners.

Very Nice guide
+rep

No wonder you are the newest mod?

-Blinding Light

pretty nice

might even bring some ppl like me to use limited crap, i mean, weapons

but honestly, really nice

Jimmy,

Nice guide indeed. I have (for my own purpose) created an excel spreadsheet where I have stats on L weapons with and without amps showing the true eco at cost in 1-Ped intervals (exampled, Breer M2a L bought for 45 ped, for 46 ped and so on)... It quickly shows what is a good deal (in terms of eco) and what is not ... Happy to share this with you if you want/need more info (pm me an e-mail and I can send it to you)...

What would also be interesting is to see such charts on non-SIB weapons. For example I have just bought an adjusted Sollomate kangoo which has a great eco but with my skills (far lower than yours) I am sure I waste that good eco. What would be awesome to see is how attachments influence the eco of the gun (2x lasers, 1x scope) ... But how to calculate that I would not know

ILW

Thanks everyone

In Love With said:

Jimmy,
Nice guide indeed. I have (for my own purpose) created an excel spreadsheet where I have stats on L weapons with and without amps showing the true eco at cost in 1-Ped intervals (exampled, Breer M2a L bought for 45 ped, for 46 ped and so on)... It quickly shows what is a good deal (in terms of eco) and what is not ... Happy to share this with you if you want/need more info (pm me an e-mail and I can send it to you)...

Click to expand...

Sure, I'll PM you my work address when I get back to work. Unfortunately haven't got round to getting Excel at home!

In Love With said:

What would also be interesting is to see such charts on non-SIB weapons. For example I have just bought an adjusted Sollomate kangoo which has a great eco but with my skills (far lower than yours) I am sure I waste that good eco. What would be awesome to see is how attachments influence the eco of the gun (2x lasers, 1x scope) ... But how to calculate that I would not know

Click to expand...

Yes its difficult to compare SIB and non-SIB weapons directly. The effect of lower min damage is easily enough quantified but the effects of lower HA and of lasers+scope are harder to quantify.

In my opinion though, given that your skills are presumably relatively low (just going by how long you've been here!) I very much doubt even an Imp Mk II would compare well to a 4.00dmg/pec limited weapon.

very well done and +rep

I can only confirm the power of L-weapons. I changed to the Korss handguns some time ago and i'm happy with them ... specialy the H400 is a very nice gun. The only problem i see is, as you cleared, the markup you pay on it. If you don't loot one you have to buy for a big markup. Compared to unlimited guns i still prefer L because at least i hit with as good as any shot and dont burn ammo for nothing ... more fun for me

Jimmy B said:

Thanks everyone



Sure, I'll PM you my work address when I get back to work. Unfortunately haven't got round to getting Excel at home!



Yes its difficult to compare SIB and non-SIB weapons directly. The effect of lower min damage is easily enough quantified but the effects of lower HA and of lasers+scope are harder to quantify.

In my opinion though, given that your skills are presumably relatively low (just going by how long you've been here!) I very much doubt even an Imp Mk II would compare well to a 4.00dmg/pec limited weapon.

Click to expand...

I read that someone had calculated the % of missed shots at being linear, with 20% misses for 0HA, and 8% for 10HA.

Taking that in mind, its pretty easy to calculate the actual economy and dmg/sec of all weapons.

For example, using those numbers with 5HA, and mindmg of 33%, the real economy of ml35+dante is 2.42 dmg/pec.

Real economy of Korss H400 + a106 with 10 HA, mindmg 50% is 2.96 dmg/sec (with no markup).

Calculating economy of limited weapons without including the bonus to HA and mindmg is rather pointless, since that is their real strenght, and without including that they look like very below-avg weapons when they in fact are very efficient for most hunters.

You forgot Riker UL2 + a103, great eco as long as u can loot your own ^^

Frey said:

I read that someone had calculated the % of missed shots at being linear, with 20% misses for 0HA, and 8% for 10HA.

Taking that in mind, its pretty easy to calculate the actual economy and dmg/sec of all weapons.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's very useful thanks - I've never seen that.

Frey said:

Calculating economy of limited weapons without including the bonus to HA and mindmg is rather pointless, since that is their real strenght, and without including that they look like very below-avg weapons when they in fact are very efficient for most hunters.

Click to expand...

Its more that I'm writing off non-SIB to begin with - assuming a sensible markup is paid I believe SIB will be better for the vast majority of players than any non-SIB.

However, if that statistic about missed shots is correct a better comparison between the two types of weapon can clearly be made.

nvcK said:

You forgot Riker UL2 + a103, great eco as long as u can loot your own ^^

Click to expand...

Well I wasn't intending it to be an exhaustive list! And well, yes, looting your own is ideal but I doubt its possible to loot them fast enough to never have to buy any...

Sorry but i dont understand the 100%, 122%, 200 % etc etc


Breer M2a + A102, 100%...4.25 dmg/pec
Breer M2a + A102, 113%...4.19 dmg/pec
Breer M2a + A102, 161%...4.00 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.598, ftt = 39, Range = 60.5

Breer M3a + A102, 100%...4.24 dmg/pec
Breer M3a + A102, 122%...4.11 dmg/pec
Breer M3a + A102, 144%...4.00 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.845, ftt = 43.5, Range = 62.7

Korss H400 + A106, 100%............4.29 dmg/pec
Korss H400 + A106, 200%............3.99 dmg/pec
Korss H400 + A106, 200% tt=40...3.96 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 0.920, ftt = 177, Range = 35.2

Riker UL3 + A105, 100%............4.25 dmg/pec
Riker UL3 + A105, 150%............3.93 dmg/pec
Riker UL3 + A105, 200%............3.65 dmg/pec
Riker UL3 + A105, 200% tt=40...3.61 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 1.817, ftt = 135, Range = 62.7

Svempa S60, 100%...4.12 dmg/pec
Svempa S60, 124%...3.98 dmg/pec
GunDecay = 1.025, ftt = 90, Range = 26.4

100% = You bought the weapon at TT (no extra markup).

Breer m2a has a maximum TT value of 39 PED. It's often sold at max TT for 44 PED total or TT+6 or 113% (TT+13%).

Korss H400 + A106, 200%............3.99 dmg/pec
Korss H400 + A106, 200% tt=40...3.96 dmg/pec

Click to expand...

If an item is at a lower value but you still pay the same %, you will not get the same stats in the end.

Here The full TT Korss H400 (177 PED) is compared to same just with a 40 PED value. An (L) gun is useless at 3% of the maximum TT value so you're actually paying extra markup for that part you can't use (still, you get the 3% back when you TT it so you only loose the markup on the 3% (paying 200% for a Korss H400 and you loose 5.3 PED) - I can't tell if Jimmy included that or not, but he should have ).

I think I actually managed to confuse myself a bit there, I hope it all makes sense..

Konve said:

100% = You bought the weapon at TT (no extra markup).

Breer m2a has a maximum TT value of 39 PED. It's often sold at max TT for 44 PED total or TT+6 or 113% (TT+13%).

If an item is at a lower value but you still pay the same %, you will not get the same stats in the end.

Here The full TT Korss H400 (177 PED) is compared to same just with a 40 PED value. An (L) gun is useless at 3% of the maximum TT value so you're actually paying extra markup for that part you can't use (still, you get the 3% back when you TT it so you only loose the markup on the 3% (paying 200% for a Korss H400 and you loose 5.3 PED) - I can't tell if Jimmy included that or not, but he should have ).

I think I actually managed to confuse myself a bit there, I hope it all makes sense..

Click to expand...

no no man u perfect and i understand all... i m quite slow but not stupid

thx a lot

In Love With said:

Jimmy,

Nice guide indeed. I have (for my own purpose) created an excel spreadsheet where I have stats on L weapons with and without amps showing the true eco at cost in 1-Ped intervals (exampled, Breer M2a L bought for 45 ped, for 46 ped and so on)... It quickly shows what is a good deal (in terms of eco) and what is not ... Happy to share this with you if you want/need more info (pm me an e-mail and I can send it to you)...

What would also be interesting is to see such charts on non-SIB weapons. For example I have just bought an adjusted Sollomate kangoo which has a great eco but with my skills (far lower than yours) I am sure I waste that good eco. What would be awesome to see is how attachments influence the eco of the gun (2x lasers, 1x scope) ... But how to calculate that I would not know

ILW

Click to expand...

hey man, why u and jimmy B dont create and share this for all... u really good for this work and maybe a good tool for all... what do u think????

hey konve ... clear and informative as always

have a nice year 2007

realy needed info +rep for you

Info given about % in HA is all given to me by Buckaroo banzai, so if you feel like giving out any creds for that, please redirect it to him. I hope he wont be too cross with me for giving out his info from our private forum here

Happy new years to all of ya btw!

remember an item is worth its market value. If you loot a korss 400, yes you avoid the markup, but the value is still there if the item was to be sold instead of used. and fwiw, i hunt for it myself anyway just to save paying the markup.to someone else. So basically to sum it up you are still losing the market value of the item (~200% in case of the korss400) as you use it, whether you loot it or buy it.

Konve said:

Here The full TT Korss H400 (177 PED) is compared to same just with a 40 PED value. An (L) gun is useless at 3% of the maximum TT value so you're actually paying extra markup for that part you can't use (still, you get the 3% back when you TT it so you only loose the markup on the 3% (paying 200% for a Korss H400 and you loose 5.3 PED) - I can't tell if Jimmy included that or not, but he should have ).

Click to expand...

Thanks Konve, and yes I did. The effect of the dead 3% isn't as bad as I thought but its all included in the calculations with the Effective Markup bit!

Too bad you didn't calc on the ACTUAL damage you do, which is average damage. (because you never shoot maximum damage all the time)

the formula for average dmg/s is like this:

(attacks per min/min)* (mindmg+maxdmg:2)

where mindamage is half of the maxdamage on sib weapons and you need to figure out a skillmodifier for the mindamage you do with non-sib weapons. (for example hitability 3.0 is about 0.67*mindamage)

Using this formula you get the actual damage you do (not counting criticals or misses). The nice thing about this formula is that fast reloading non-sib weapons actually come close to sib weapons in terms of damage per second. You can compensate your meagre mindamage with a higher reload.

for example:

shriek combat 26 dmg 19,9 dmg/s cost 6,43 per shot avdmg/s 13,29

korrs h380 24 dmg 17,6 dmg/s cost 6.12 per shot avdmg/s 13,19

where avdmg/s on the shriek combat is with a hitability of 3.0 so 0.67*mindamage

What I am trying to say is.. there are still choices in the non-sib area.
When you get a gun with a nice fast reload, low ammo consumption and a good economy, you can still compete with the sib-weapons, because: you do not pay any markup once you have the gun

There is one simple rule to follow: pick high reload, low ammo consumption, high economy and you still keep (roughly) on par with the amped opalo solution, using sib or non-sib. Ofcourse sib is preferable always, but it all depends on the markup.

here is a post where i go deeper into this subject:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43239

Using the justifier mk2 is not a fair comparison.. because it simply is way more expensive then the opalo/amp ever was.

To know how well you do with different guns, don't use pe-wiki.info.

Use this one:

http://weapcalc.ogre-online.com/index.php

The above link will show you your average damage, based on your skill

Jimmy B said:

How do I find out these things?​

Click to expand...

Have you looked at this page:

http://entropiatools.com/avgdmgpec.php

Can save some time before trying to Excel things

Kolobok said:

Have you looked at this page:

http://entropiatools.com/avgdmgpec.php

Can save some time before trying to Excel things

Click to expand...

The point was to show people how they can calculate (quite easily) such things themselves. As, with new weapons coming out all the time, information sites will not always have the details you need. The site you link to doesn't yet have Breer M3a for instance.

Spawn said:

Too bad you didn't calc on the ACTUAL damage you do, which is average damage. (because you never shoot maximum damage all the time)

the formula for average dmg/s is like this:

(attacks per min/min)* (mindmg+maxdmg:2)

Click to expand...

Obviously. The reason I use max damage is because that is what is traditionally used. Since I'm considering limited weapons here, we should have 50% min damage on each weapon so it doesn't make much difference for comparison purposes.

I wasn't really aiming to compare with non-SIB guns. It just needs too many assumptions such as how HA affects things and how sights & scopes affect things. I haven't seen any conclusive answers to these things so I've refrained from making guesses.

I'm more interested in dmg/pec than dmg/sec anyway. And imo for non-ubers there aren't any non-SIB weapons that compare to a wisely chosen SIB weapon, despite the markup.

Jimmy B said:

The point was to show people how they can calculate (quite easily) such things themselves. As, with new weapons coming out all the time, information sites will not always have the details you need. The site you link to doesn't yet have Breer M3a for instance.

Click to expand...

Sure. Your guide is already very useful. My suggestion for improving it is to include some links to already existing tools, add calculations for average dmg/pec and mention some aspects that are not so obvious and need more testing.

Even for maxed out weapons, misses and critical hits are to be taken taken into account. This number - 8% of misses for a maxed out weapon - probably was measured in some older VU and never questioned since then. I don't know what is the % for critical hits. It is not clear whether the distribution of damage made by individual shots is uniform and doesn't depend on skills, like it does for FAP.

Kolobok said:

Sure. Your guide is already very useful. My suggestion for improving it is to include some links to already existing tools, add calculations for average dmg/pec and mention some aspects that are not so obvious and need more testing.

Even for maxed out weapons, misses and critical hits are to be taken taken into account. This number - 8% of misses for a maxed out weapon - probably was measured in some older VU and never questioned since then. I don't know what is the % for critical hits. It is not clear whether the distribution of damage made by individual shots is uniform and doesn't depend on skills, like it does for FAP.

Click to expand...

Thanks man, I didn't mean to come over as aggressive - had just been reading that *other thread* from last night! Thanks for the link, as you point out there's some very useful tools out there. Some of them I haven't used much so I'll check them out and add them to the first post sometime.

Again, I left out misses and crits as for maxed out weapons it just scales them all down by the same %. So for comparison purposes between two maxed out weapons its not so important.

But certainly for comparing SIB and non-SIB its needed. That wasn't my original intention but its worth mentioning so I'll add a section into the first post sometime!

Kolobok said:

It is not clear whether the distribution of damage made by individual shots is uniform and doesn't depend on skills, like it does for FAP.

Click to expand...

That part has been confirmed several times. eg here

Jimmy, it might be good to point out that these numbers only hold when a player has maxed out the SIB in question; i don't think the very beginning players this may be most useful to will necessarily know that; so, a bit on upgrade strategy perhaps. If you didm and i missed it, i apologize,

dee said:

remember an item is worth its market value. If you loot a korss 400, yes you avoid the markup, but the value is still there if the item was to be sold instead of used. and fwiw, i hunt for it myself anyway just to save paying the markup.to someone else. So basically to sum it up you are still losing the market value of the item (~200% in case of the korss400) as you use it, whether you loot it or buy it.

Click to expand...

I think that this is a very good point. I've seen a lot of people saying "this weapon has great economy as long as I can loot it". I cannot say they're wrong, but I prefer to see it in a different way:

Remember that if you loot a 100 ped korss 400, what you have actually looted is a 200 ped worth of weapon. If you go hunting and you burn the whole gun, you've burned 200 ped worth of gun.

If you decide to sell the gun, you get 100 extra ped. If you hunt with it, you'd better take into account those 100 extra ped in you calculations to see if you've had a loss/profit, otherwise you're fooling yourself. In economics, this concept is known as "cost of opportunity", ie., the virtual cost you've paid for not having done something; in this case, for not having sold the gun.

The bottom line: as long as you pay current market price for an L weapon (the price you could get if you sell it), it does not matter if you loot it or if you buy it, economy-wise

Cheers,
/jdegre.

jdegre said:

I think that this is a very good point. I've seen a lot of people saying "this weapon has great economy as long as I can loot it". I cannot say they're wrong, but I prefer to see it in a different way:

Remember that if you loot a 100 ped korss 400, what you have actually looted is a 200 ped worth of weapon. If you go hunting and you burn the whole gun, you've burned 200 ped worth of gun.

If you decide to sell the gun, you get 100 extra ped. If you hunt with it, you'd better take into account those 100 extra ped in you calculations to see if you've had a loss/profit, otherwise you're fooling yourself. In economics, this concept is known as "cost of opportunity", ie., the virtual cost you've paid for not having done something; in this case, for not having sold the gun.

The bottom line: as long as you pay current market price for an L weapon (the price you could get if you sell it), it does not matter if you loot it or if you buy it, economy-wise

Cheers,
/jdegre.

Click to expand...

Agree, good post.

Darkaner said:

Agree, good post.

Click to expand...

yup
i agree

I agree with the last four posts

I will add some more stuff to the guide, particularly the good points people have brought up, in a few days. Bit busy atm!

jdegre said:

I think that this is a very good point. I've seen a lot of people saying "this weapon has great economy as long as I can loot it". I cannot say they're wrong, but I prefer to see it in a different way:

Remember that if you loot a 100 ped korss 400, what you have actually looted is a 200 ped worth of weapon. If you go hunting and you burn the whole gun, you've burned 200 ped worth of gun.

If you decide to sell the gun, you get 100 extra ped. If you hunt with it, you'd better take into account those 100 extra ped in you calculations to see if you've had a loss/profit, otherwise you're fooling yourself. In economics, this concept is known as "cost of opportunity", ie., the virtual cost you've paid for not having done something; in this case, for not having sold the gun.

The bottom line: as long as you pay current market price for an L weapon (the price you could get if you sell it), it does not matter if you loot it or if you buy it, economy-wise

Cheers,
/jdegre.

Click to expand...

agree, but it is a psychological thing ... Example If I loot an adjusted fap I would most likely keep it, but I would never buy one. I am sure that many people see that the same way so even though your argument if fully valid I'd still shoot the Korss as I love this weapon (but am too tight to buy one from the auction all the time

ILW

Just a point about the M3a ... I'm pretty sure that it's specifically designed to be used with the E-amp 12. There's also a new looted (L) laser amp that does 10 dmg ... that could be used too.

The E-amp 12 does 10 damage and you can maximize your dmg/sec to 16.5 by using this. The eco is slightly less afaik ... but still over the 4 dmg/pec mark.