"Rebombing" - 2 theorys [with pics]

[Perseverance]

It all started when me and my friend were arguing about what is better, his "rebombing" theory or mine. To show him I decided to post pictures here on EF showing why I think mine is better. (also this might prove usefull to someone else?) Comments are appreciated .

Introduction:
The specific situation that is needed to rebomb in this matter is that you bomb and find a claim rod inside 10 meters from the bomb to the claim rod. My friend said that he would not rebomb unless he did. Rebombing is when you bomb a spot and then bomb near or at the same location again.

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
The above picture shows that the situation must look like.

My friend's theory:
My friend states that the best thing to do if you want to rebomb is to bomb on the exact spot where you found the claim rod.
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
The above picture shows how he bombs.

My theory:
I state that the best thing to do if you want to rebomb is to bomb 54-55 meters away from the claim rod. This will minimize the ammount of area that is not searched.
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
The above picture shows how I think its best to bomb.

My explanation why my theory is better:
The first bomb which finds the claim rod inside 10 meters, searches in this case only 10^2*pi squaremeters. (r^2*pi=area) Since it finds the nearest deposit. The red area in the first picture shows what is not searched with the first bomb.
My friend then suggest to bomb on the claim rod, thus making that bomb searching 55^2*pi meters (55 meter search range on the finder, 54 for some) minus the 10^2*pi meters that has already been searched. So in his case (55^2*pi) - (10^2*pi) = 9503 - 314 = 9189. 9189m^2.
While my theory searches the fully 9503m^2 that the finder is capable of, since it doesnt disturb in the previous 314m^2 that has been searched. This makes my theory better, in my opinion.

I would appreciate if you dont neg rep me for having too much time to write a long description on a very very unnecessary thing in EU.

 

[Vedder]

It all started when me and my friend were arguing about what is better, his "rebombing" theory or mine. To show him I decided to post pictures here on EF showing why I think mine is better. (also this might prove usefull to someone else?) Comments are appreciated .

Introduction:
The specific situation that is needed to rebomb in this matter is that you bomb and find a claim rod inside 10 meters from the bomb to the claim rod. My friend said that he would not rebomb unless he did. Rebombing is when you bomb a spot and then bomb near or at the same location again.

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
The above picture shows that the situation must look like.

My friend's theory:
My friend states that the best thing to do if you want to rebomb is to bomb on the exact spot where you found the claim rod.
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
The above picture shows how he bombs.

My theory:
I state that the best thing to do if you want to rebomb is to bomb 54-55 meters away from the claim rod. This will minimize the ammount of area that is not searched.
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
The above picture shows how I think its best to bomb.

My explanation why my theory is better:
The first bomb which finds the claim rod inside 10 meters, searches in this case only 10^2*pi squaremeters. (r^2*pi=area) Since it finds the nearest deposit. The red area in the first picture shows what is not searched with the first bomb.
My friend then suggest to bomb on the claim rod, thus making that bomb searching 55^2*pi meters (55 meter search range on the finder, 54 for some) minus the 10^2*pi meters that has already been searched. So in his case (55^2*pi) - (10^2*pi) = 9503 - 314 = 9189. 9189m^2.
While my theory searches the fully 9503m^2 that the finder is capable of, since it doesnt disturb in the previous 314m^2 that has been searched. This makes my theory better, in my opinion.

I would appreciate if you dont neg rep me for having too much time to write a long description on a very very unnecessary thing in EU.

I don't know much about mining...
But seems to me, that you're not rebombing at all, but rather have calculated how *not* to rebomb.

Well.. What do i know about mining.

 

[Perseverance]

I don't know much about mining...
But seems to me, that you're not rebombing at all, but rather have calculated how *not* to rebomb.

Well.. What do i know about mining.

Thats kinda what I mean rebombing is less efficient.

 

[The Nightbird]

Well, the suggested rebomb method was mine so here is a reply:

EU is all about risk and reward thus you have to decide when the promise of reward outweighs the risk.

When double bombing at a claim point, if that claim is:

5 meters from initial bomb site, loss in rebombing area is 0.8%, you can also say the chance of finding something on the rebomb is reduced by 0.8%.

For 10 meters, loss is 3.3%,
15 meters, 7.4%
20 meters, 13.2%
25 meters, 20.6%
30 meters and over, math gets a bit more complicated so won't bother.

so that covers the risk, what about the reward?

Well, if you find a deposit, there is a 0.8% chance that the deposit is within 5 meters, 3.3% chance that it is within 10meters. What does that mean? Well just that close claims don't happen very often. What could it mean then? Well, it COULD mean that the area is unusually rich in deposits.

How much richer? Well, one can never know. But if the ground is 1% richer than normal, ie bombing on this ground is 1% more likely to land you a claim, then rebombing when you find a deposit within 5 meters it worthwhile. If it is 5% richer than normal... then rebombing when you find a claim within 10 meters is worthwhile. So is it worth the risk? It depends on how much you like to gamble. Ever since deciding to rebomb when I find a claim within 10 meters, I have after dropping 300probes found 5 such cases, and landed a claim for 3 of them. For me, it is worth the risk... so far. If that % drops in the future, I might change my mind but until then, I will keep rebombing.

 

[Zap]

Entropia Universe is dynamic
So bought ways as good... depends on so many variables that bigger coverage is hmm, not so important.

-Zap

 

[Perseverance]

Entropia Universe is dynamic
So bought ways as good... depends on so many variables that bigger coverage is hmm, not so important.

-Zap

I kinda expected an answer like this so I have an answer to it.

My friends way searches 96.7% of my way, which may seem like a very small diffrence but its like putting a ped on the ground every day and it may not even be noticed on your ped card but after a year you have lost 365 peds and that is enough to buy a average set of armor or a average gun.

 

[drifter]

simple question..do you assume that there is ONLY one find no matter what within a fixed 53-54m radius?

 

[JohnCapital]

Ever see this thread?

 

[The Nightbird]

Ever see this thread?

Yes, but it is all about probability and 1 case doesn't cut it.

 

[Perseverance]

simple question..do you assume that there is ONLY one find no matter what within a fixed 53-54m radius?

no but theres 3.3% less chance that you will get a find if you rebomb then if you dont rebomb it seems.



P.S. just as a reminder, I dont suggest everyone to stop rebombing, this is only to show that rebombing is less efficient.

 

[JohnCapital]

Yes, but it is all about probability and 1 case doesn't cut it.

Yes but it begs the question: Why does there have to be 1 claim within every 50m circle? You can only find 1 at a time. I've found 5 claims within 50m of each other. Find a claim, bomb, find another, repeat.

edit:
Whoops seems I forgot about drifter's post and am just reposting the same question. Sorry.

 

[drifter]

Dont have any screenies to back it up.. But my XXIII find was a double bomb.

and I seem to remember kaiser did something to this effect on CND with amps. Something like 5 double bombs equaling 5 globals in about 2 minutes. CND is definitely an exception though.

 

[The Nightbird]

Yes but it begs the question: Why does there have to be 1 claim within every 50m circle?

Umm, I have no idea where you got that part from.

 

[drifter]

Yes but it begs the question: Why does there have to be 1 claim within every 50m circle? You can only find 1 at a time. I've found 5 claims within 50m of each other. Find a claim, bomb, find another, repeat.

/agree JohnCapital

My record is 7 within a 50m area due to rebombing on the rod, a couple hits I even had to double back to claim it. So I am of a belief that if you find something... there may be something else nearby.

I only move on after a bomb yeilds no resources.

Oh and yes Perserverance... rebombing is less efficient, but i think (for me at least) the reward is greater than the risk. (in my experience)

 

[The Nightbird]

Dont have any screenies to back it up.. But my XXIII find was a double bomb.

and I seem to remember kaiser did something to this effect on CND with amps. Something like 5 double bombs equaling 5 globals in about 2 minutes. CND is definitely an exception though.

And I understand why you might want other miners to rebomb all the time but this is just the math. Of the thousands of globals, how many are rebombs? Answer that and we can determine whether everyone should rebomb or not but since we can't collect the necessary data, we make do with the math.

 

[CareBear]

Thats kinda what I mean rebombing is less efficient.

Well.. your term "efficient" implies that "searching" a larger area yields better results... I think thats yet to be proven

 

[forgo]

I personally rebomb every claim....often claims can be in clusters, and finding the 1st claim in the cluster is usually the smallest it seems. There have been times where ive gotten 8 claims by rebombing on the 1st, and typically when there is a cluster...theres a large claim in the area, probably because so many people pass by claim one and move on, therefore giving the other claims more time to grow.


Id venture to guess that rebombing probably has just as much if not better chance then going on without doing so, mainly because of the way it seems claims bunch up in alot of areas.

Just my thought anyhow, Your theory of rebombing is typically more of a carpet bomb, and when running along that will cover the most area. The problem is when you bomb ahead and possibly miss one outside that range again....behind the last claim.

So, I do both Rebomb....move on your distance and continue, depending on location of course, some areas just dont have anything 10 bombs away in any direction.

 

[Vap0r]

Think in terms of layers

 

[drifter]

And I understand why you might want other miners to rebomb all the time but this is just the math. Of the thousands of globals, how many are rebombs? Answer that and we can determine whether everyone should rebomb or not but since we can't collect the necessary data, we make do with the math.

Hehe .. this is why i love this game... SOOOO much theory-craft . And everyone one of these threads gives me something else to try to add to my repertoire of mining tricks .

Best thing i guess we can do is compare our own experiences with each other. The total amount of data for all the globals is quite large... and I dont think MA will let us have access to that .

But to give a final statement : I will always rebomb on successive rods until a "no resources found" message appears. In my experience this has worked very well for me even though it is less efficient. (I expect MA to flag my avi now with a "give this dude LOTS AND LOTS of tiny lyst hits") hehe.

 

[aridash]

i think you need to address your definition of "rebombing". the idea is to pick up other nearby ores in a cluster (as already mentioned) or to use a probe/bomb to test for the other type you didnt before. You method is simply tight carpet bombing whilst you freinds method is convienent rebombing. strictly speaking, as demonstarted by the missed area in both your graphics, rebombing really should be going back to the drop spot and redropping to properly retest the whole area.

 

[DesertKrow]

Im a noob in mining, but every time i get a claim, I rebomb. Almost in all cases when i do find another claim its depth is greater and larger in quantity. It seems that when you bomb an area, it responds with the closest deposit, so the bigger or deeper deposit hides beneath the first found.

IMHO I believe that rebombing next to the first claim is more efficient.

 

[JohnCapital]

Of the thousands of globals, how many are rebombs?

It doesn't have to be a global, to make it profitable. (but it sure does help.)

 

[Squee]

The reason I bomb till im sure something is empty is cause of this:
When you first bomb, you know you'll either find something or nothing.. If you find nothing, you are (pretty) sure it wont become anything with another bomb. But if you found something, there is a chance there is more, and i have no reason to believe that chance is smaller if i move. Something is there, or it's not. Basically the finding nothing is the only thing I am sure off. If im not sure, ill bomb.

As for my little experience:
Can't say how my results would be if i didnt, but i think on many occasions when i found something dubble bombing.. On many more i found nothing.. Based on that I should stop. Based on the fact that several good finds were on a dubble bombing, i would say it was worth every failed attempt.. Based on my own view it wouldnt even matter.. It's there, or not.

 

[Bogger]

please dont encourage them, we have to read this crap in soc chat and now on ef, mod please

 

[mrproper]

I often rebomb, and I once found 3 layers with finds within 15m of eachother. I should go back to that position every day, it should give me something for at least one layer...

 

[Alex]

please dont encourage them, we have to read this crap in soc chat and now on ef, mod please

still its nice its always some theory but like Zap writed "Entropia Universe is dynamic" there is big chance even if some theories works MA is changing system all the time like spawn locations.

 

[SirFluidHat]

yo
I once found 9 Claims within 40 meters radius, so i say Always Doublebomb

 

[sahel]

I usually double bomb / probe on the exact same spot, and this is why:

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

 

[Redster]

Yup , I agree. My normal method is drop with my 213L if I get a hit,, I drop another with my amped 105. I have gotten my globals frm that 2nd bomb and 99% of the time, they are within the 55 meter range of the first claim.

 

[Rayne Jade]

I double-bomb / double-probe as well. My theory (hee hee) is that the "easier" resources will mask the uber resources. Once I find a Blau or Lyst, I rebomb and, as a good example, last night I found Gold for the first time - 34 PED worth of Gold. I don't feel the depth of the resource is the issue (but it may be). I just think the easier finds will show up before the more difficult ones.