Returns too avatar-based

[John uncguy43 Williams]

For those who don't know me by now, I'm a fairly avid miner. Usually, I'll log 1-2 runs each night after work and each run typically takes about 2 hours between dropping probes and cleaning them up. So, all in all, we're looking at about 3-4 hours spent each night, and it's been this way for close to a year.

Over that time, I've come to meet a good number of other miners, many of which I've come to know and respect. This leads to natural conversations when we bump into each other in our various mining areas, and we always probe each other for our numbers. "How many drops have you made? What's your hit rate? Composition any good? Any big hits?" Yeah, it's fun. (Okay, admittedly not that fun. But at least we're making money, right?)

But, over time, these conversations have led to a discovery that makes me rather frustrated.

As you may know, I have had several big mining hits fairly recently. I usually score a 500+ HOF about once every 3 days or so and without using incredibly high MU amps. Now, this means that fairly often I am highly in the positive from a TT perspective when it comes to mining - and yes, I track my runs meticulously for all the naysayers out there. Since I began tracking my mining runs more closely three months ago, I am sitting at a TT return of ~124% on over 80k PED cycled. And this is technically an underinflated number because I include the MU cost of my amps in TT cost tracking. Why? Because I like to, okay?

Now, "with great power comes great responsibility!" With great TT returns comes great periods of volatility - I know and expect that. Many times after a period of great runs, I'll have a sour period where I am scoring TT returns of 50-70%. This I expect. After all, I can't take, take, take from MA without them getting it back. But the point of any activity in EU, and especially an activity as boring as mining, is that you can achieve enough MU to make a profit over time.

Whether I continue to TT profit or not over years...I don't know. Probably not if we're being honest with our expectations. But that's not the point of this post.

The point is this: I hate how OBVIOUS the giveback periods are.

Let me explain with an example. My last several runs looked like this from a TT return perspective:

117.54%
82.32%
82.03%
146.97%
101.95%
79.21%
147.94%
150.25%
78.21%
78.97%
63.35%

On this most recent run (and the one before it), my hit rate was around 15-20% on 80+ drops each run. Ordinary hit rate ranges somewhere between 25-35% and is the "sweet spot" for where both MA and the player can win - MA getting a small take and the player making enough in MU (if they have game knowledge, skills, and the right tools) to have a small profit. A true win-win. An exceptional run is a hit rate that is 35%+ and this typically means the player is making a TT return, which is not sustainable for MA.

But here's the rub: while I'm having those 15-20% TERRIBLE runs - which, again, are to be expected - I can chat one of my miner buddies that I see running around in the same area and they can have a hit rate of 35%+ on more drops than me and a larger amp than me - all while using the same gear as me. This happens time and time again.

Don't get me wrong, I would take a positive TT return and volatility all day long. And yet, it admittedly continues to frustrate me to no end that - no matter how good my skills, gear, game knowledge - I can still have a terribly poor return in the same area using the same gear over a similarly reasonable period of drops as one of my friends or society members. This obvious clawback period is just that - so stinking obvious. I so desperately want EU to be a skill-based game of sorts, but there is nothing I can do to tilt the odds in my favor during one of these clawback periods, and that frustrates me.

What about you? Am I alone on a boat here? By all means, feel free to hurl insults, call names, and pick apart my data claims - I'm here for it

 

[Katie Chalmers]

feel free to hurl insults

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! I blow my nose at you!

 

[Gopher]

For those who don't know me by now, I'm a fairly avid miner. Usually, I'll log 1-2 runs each night after work and each run typically takes about 2 hours between dropping probes and cleaning them up. So, all in all, we're looking at about 3-4 hours spent each night, and it's been this way for close to a year.

Over that time, I've come to meet a good number of other miners, many of which I've come to know and respect. This leads to natural conversations when we bump into each other in our various mining areas, and we always probe each other for our numbers. "How many drops have you made? What's your hit rate? Composition any good? Any big hits?" Yeah, it's fun. (Okay, admittedly not that fun. But at least we're making money, right?)

But, over time, these conversations have led to a discovery that makes me rather frustrated.

As you may know, I have had several big mining hits fairly recently. I usually score a 500+ HOF about once every 3 days or so and without using incredibly high MU amps. Now, this means that fairly often I am highly in the positive from a TT perspective when it comes to mining - and yes, I track my runs meticulously for all the naysayers out there. Since I began tracking my mining runs more closely three months ago, I am sitting at a TT return of ~124% on over 80k PED cycled. And this is technically an underinflated number because I include the MU cost of my amps in TT cost tracking. Why? Because I like to, okay?

Now, "with great power comes great responsibility!" With great TT returns comes great periods of volatility - I know and expect that. Many times after a period of great runs, I'll have a sour period where I am scoring TT returns of 50-70%. This I expect. After all, I can't take, take, take from MA without them getting it back. But the point of any activity in EU, and especially an activity as boring as mining, is that you can achieve enough MU to make a profit over time.

Whether I continue to TT profit or not over years...I don't know. Probably not if we're being honest with our expectations. But that's not the point of this post.

The point is this: I hate how OBVIOUS the giveback periods are.

Let me explain with an example. My last several runs looked like this from a TT return perspective:

117.54%
82.32%
82.03%
146.97%
101.95%
79.21%
147.94%
150.25%
78.21%
78.97%
63.35%

On this most recent run (and the one before it), my hit rate was around 15-20% on 80+ drops each run. Ordinary hit rate ranges somewhere between 25-35% and is the "sweet spot" for where both MA and the player can win - MA getting a small take and the player making enough in MU (if they have game knowledge, skills, and the right tools) to have a small profit. A true win-win. An exceptional run is a hit rate that is 35%+ and this typically means the player is making a TT return, which is not sustainable for MA.

But here's the rub: while I'm having those 15-20% TERRIBLE runs - which, again, are to be expected - I can chat one of my miner buddies that I see running around in the same area and they can have a hit rate of 35%+ on more drops than me and a larger amp than me - all while using the same gear as me. This happens time and time again.

Don't get me wrong, I would take a positive TT return and volatility all day long. And yet, it admittedly continues to frustrate me to no end that - no matter how good my skills, gear, game knowledge - I can still have a terribly poor return in the same area using the same gear over a similarly reasonable period of drops as one of my friends or society members. This obvious clawback period is just that - so stinking obvious. I so desperately want EU to be a skill-based game of sorts, but there is nothing I can do to tilt the odds in my favor during one of these clawback periods, and that frustrates me.

What about you? Am I alone on a boat here? By all means, feel free to hurl insults, call names, and pick apart my data claims - I'm here for it

I did multiple unamped mining runs, 2k ped in total, was getting shit returns for the first 1.5k drops, game magically gives me 2 globals and 6-7 11-13 size claims. Giveback is super obvious. If there was more of a constant return, it would be nice even though you sacrifice how often hofs/globals happen.

 

[John uncguy43 Williams]

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! I blow my nose at you!

Now THIS is what we came for

 

[R4tt3xx]

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! I blow my nose at you!

You fight like a cow.

 

[Art Jennifer]

I agree in the fact there is some avatar bound returns. Suppose this is the keeping everyone at 90% TT return or whatever that number is. Hence why some can have a killer run, as you get nothing right next to you.

In my experience, whenever my overall TT return goes below 80% then I usually hit a nice HOF to bring it closer to 90%. Currently at 72%... (watch this space )

I look at your stats. Which makes me feel even more like MA single me out and fk me in the arse. I mean, I do like a little flutter on FOMA, but still. I cycled 40k in Feb (excluding MU) - The last 9 runs at the bottom of this table have officially bankrupted me....

These are TT returns. Before factoring in any MU... In reality these will be slightly higher. However the big swings will be considerably lower due to more MU paid to achieve.

Kids don't do what I do..... I'm also going to switch to hunting the rest of the year.. Done with mining for now.

78%
105%
91%
8%
63%
76%
120%
89%
25%
94%
40%
78%
71%
65%
63%
135%
68%
89%
79%
81%
103%
236%
114%
103%
62%
15%
88%
13%
17%
88%
76%
212%
156%
89%
87%
70%
110%
98%
80%
227%
73%
38%
48%
41%
43%
27%
74%
20%
19%

 

[John uncguy43 Williams]

You fight like a cow.

True, have you seen me fight? It's ugly

I agree in the fact there is some avatar bound returns. Suppose this is the keeping everyone at 90% TT return or whatever that number is. Hence why some can have a killer run, as you get nothing right next to you.

In my experience, whenever my overall TT return goes below 80% then I usually hit a nice HOF to bring it closer to 90%. Currently at 72%... (watch this space )

I look at your stats. Which makes me feel even more like MA single me out and fk me in the arse. I mean, I do like a little flutter on FOMA, but still. I cycled 40k in Feb (excluding MU) - The last 9 runs at the bottom of this table have officially bankrupted me....

These are TT returns. Before factoring in any MU... In reality these will be slightly higher. However the big swings will be considerably lower due to more MU paid to achieve.

Kids don't do what I do..... I'm also going to switch to hunting the rest of the year.. Done with mining for now.

78%
105%
91%
8%
63%
76%
120%
89%
25%
94%
40%
78%
71%
65%
63%
135%
68%
89%
79%
81%
103%
236%
114%
103%
62%
15%
88%
13%
17%
88%
76%
212%
156%
89%
87%
70%
110%
98%
80%
227%
73%
38%
48%
41%
43%
27%
74%
20%
19%

I feel for you - although I learned long ago (with the occasional short-lasting reminder) to stay away from FOMA, HELL, etc. unless I have a very large bankroll and plan to spend 50+ amps. The volatility is just far too great for me (personally) there. I wish you well with hunting and may that bankroll re-grow swiftly!

 

[atomicstorm]

If it weren't avatar-based, it would be gambling and subject to extra scrutiny. Which do you want it to be?

 

[Deepa2]

I so desperately want EU to be a skill-based game of sorts, but there is nothing I can do to tilt the odds in my favor during one of these clawback periods, and that frustrates me.

Yeah, MA have no options too. If skills would start to affect return (less volatility? return more than 90%?), they either get bankrupt, or all mats on market will become 101% trash.

 

[Slyk]

Are we all now on board with my comment on the 22k melchi?

 

[Gopher]

I agree in the fact there is some avatar bound returns. Suppose this is the keeping everyone at 90% TT return or whatever that number is. Hence why some can have a killer run, as you get nothing right next to you.

In my experience, whenever my overall TT return goes below 80% then I usually hit a nice HOF to bring it closer to 90%. Currently at 72%... (watch this space )

I look at your stats. Which makes me feel even more like MA single me out and fk me in the arse. I mean, I do like a little flutter on FOMA, but still. I cycled 40k in Feb (excluding MU) - The last 9 runs at the bottom of this table have officially bankrupted me....

These are TT returns. Before factoring in any MU... In reality these will be slightly higher. However the big swings will be considerably lower due to more MU paid to achieve.

Kids don't do what I do..... I'm also going to switch to hunting the rest of the year.. Done with mining for now.

78%
105%
91%
8%
63%
76%
120%
89%
25%
94%
40%
78%
71%
65%
63%
135%
68%
89%
79%
81%
103%
236%
114%
103%
62%
15%
88%
13%
17%
88%
76%
212%
156%
89%
87%
70%
110%
98%
80%
227%
73%
38%
48%
41%
43%
27%
74%
20%
19%

Those bottom returns... ouch

 

[John uncguy43 Williams]

If it weren't avatar-based, it would be gambling and subject to extra scrutiny. Which do you want it to be?

If it were truly avatar-based, then skills/game knowledge/gear would make a consistent difference. I am saying - similar to what Gopher said earlier - that I would be willing to accept less volatility along with less HOFs in order to believe that my actions actually made a difference. If my actions don't make a difference, then it IS gambling.

PS - long-time fan of your various posts and appreciate all the knowledge-sharing. No hard feelings in any of these replies towards anyone for any reason - just trying to express my views in a well-communicated manner.

 

[atomicstorm]

If it were truly avatar-based, then skills/game knowledge/gear would make a consistent difference. I am saying - similar to what Gopher said earlier - that I would be willing to accept less volatility along with less HOFs in order to believe that my actions actually made a difference. If my actions don't make a difference, then it IS gambling.

PS - long-time fan of your various posts and appreciate all the knowledge-sharing. No hard feelings in any of these replies towards anyone for any reason - just trying to express my views in a well-communicated manner.

We all want less volatility. Mindark wants more apparently. I agree with you. They seem to want people to become more frustrated and discontented.

 

[miathan]

We all want less volatility. Mindark wants more apparently. I agree with you. They seem to want people to become more frustrated and discontented.

I would also prefer less volatility. Not sure everyone wants it though? People like the "big hits". From MAs perspective volatility is good since you need more bankroll = more depo. And when you finally get a big hit you feel rich and buy something expensive

 

[Gopher]

We all want less volatility. Mindark wants more apparently. I agree with you. They seem to want people to become more frustrated and discontented.

If more people join the game, which hopefully will happen when game transfers to UE5, MA might be more approachable with less volatility since their income wouldn't be hurt as much if there were far more players playing. They should honestly do something sooner than that though, game can be aggravating when you get dogshit returns while doing the same thing you were always doing. Newer players would also stay longer with less volatility because the game wont take a large cut just to hof/global it back later. Since there are barely any 2.0 weapons for lower budget/new players, they are unable to control their loot return % since the best eff weapon they can use that is appropriate for the mob is 60-65%, which leads to worse volatility. Hopefully they add some weapons that are in the 8-16 dps range so that these type of players (including me) can hunt mobs without having to worry about losing so much in so little time, as the game can sometimes take a while to giveback.

 

[miathan]

If more people join the game, which hopefully will happen when game transfers to UE5, MA might be more approachable with less volatility since their income wouldn't be hurt as much if there were far more players playing. They should honestly do something sooner than that though, game can be aggravating when you get dogshit returns while doing the same thing you were always doing. Newer players would also stay longer with less volatility because the game wont take a large cut just to hof/global it back later. Since there are barely any 2.0 weapons for lower budget/new players, they are unable to control their loot return % since the best eff weapon they can use that is appropriate for the mob is 60-65%, which leads to worse volatility. Hopefully they add some weapons that are in the 8-16 dps range so that these type of players (including me) can hunt mobs without having to worry about losing so much in so little time, as the game can sometimes take a while to giveback.

FYI, my experience is that eff or looter doesn't affect "volatility". Only way to control volatility is to hunt smaller mobs (reduce ped / kill)

 

[Sirhc]

Don't get me wrong, I would take a positive TT return and volatility all day long. And yet, it admittedly continues to frustrate me to no end that - no matter how good my skills, gear, game knowledge - I can still have a terribly poor return in the same area using the same gear over a similarly reasonable period of drops as one of my friends or society members. This obvious clawback period is just that - so stinking obvious. I so desperately want EU to be a skill-based game of sorts, but there is nothing I can do to tilt the odds in my favor during one of these clawback periods, and that frustrates me.

What about you? Am I alone on a boat here? By all means, feel free to hurl insults, call names, and pick apart my data claims - I'm here for it

Within the 3 main professions there are always cycles of bad loot -> meh loot -> great loot -> awesome loot and back again, plus sometimes that awesome loot is on a very long timer. It's been like this since I started playing back in 2004. You kind of have to test the system to see where you are at in any given cycle and just how long that cycle will last. Gear, in-game skills, and some real life skills like money management really come into play during the down cycles which help you weather that storm. It can be quite the mundane grind at times in some respects. That is the reason certain types of gear and skill don't change hands often and tend to command a higher price when they do show up for sale.

My "Ah ha" moments are when it becomes obvious I am in a bad loot cycle. So that is my que to change something if I want to continue playing or I am willing to risk the peds for codex or markup in some way. I had a so-so mining run this last weekend with only one global but my hit rate was pretty good and I was finding a lot of higher markup resources and those that weren't contributed to quests and skill builds. I have spots that I frequent because even in the down times they tend to be less loss via markup.

I have to take myself out of the game mechanics to some extent and think about what is beneficial for my bankroll at that given time and whether I am fine with playing a higher risk/greater reward style of play or being more conservative and how that aligns with the goals I have for my avatar.

The phenomenal loots are awesome and I've had a few over the years but they are very short lived unless the planets align and you loot a 2.0 weapon or other gear that suits your skill level and profession to help you weather the loot cycles with less risk.

When I compare EU space to other space sim like games out there it becomes a little more clear. A high risk activity in a space sim game might be attacking another ship that outmatches what you've got but your dog fighting skills might be superior to the other pilot giving you an advantage. In EU space and normal gameplay it seems more akin to an interactive table top game. You pit your gear, in-game skills, and hit points against a foe and battle it out in a hit point duel. Mining is similar but its about the find and not the foe and crafting is about the item construction. Gear, skills, and HP give you an edge and why they are worth something. PVP in EU does take real life skills but you are still at the mercy of the hit or miss plus a lower equipped avatar might get a critical hit you can't survive. Also over-arching all of this is MA's ability to tweak variables from update to update. For players this means a rolling adapt or die situation and each avatar is on their own path so to speak.

If I get the itch for some real skill based dog fighting I don't do it in EU. EU is still compelling though and I can wrap my head around the table top game mechanics because I used to play those a lot back in the day. I understand your frustration, EU space was a huge disappoint to me when it was implemented but I adapted and found other options they just weren't EU. I don't blame MA either they are working within the framework of their game and it has it's limitations. Maybe UE5 will expand those limitations but it all depends on their development path.

 

[Gopher]

FYI, my experience is that eff or looter doesn't affect "volatility". Only way to control volatility is to hunt smaller mobs (reduce ped / kill)

Thank you for your input, as there are no 2.0 weapons I can afford/hunt for long times with since they cycle too much for my bankroll and seem way too overpriced, so I only associated it with volatility since players report higher tt % back more often when using a 2.0 rather than a 1.0.

 

[John uncguy43 Williams]

Within the 3 main professions there are always cycles of bad loot -> meh loot -> great loot -> awesome loot and back again, plus sometimes that awesome loot is on a very long timer. It's been like this since I started playing back in 2004. You kind of have to test the system to see where you are at in any given cycle and just how long that cycle will last. Gear, in-game skills, and some real life skills like money management really come into play during the down cycles which help you weather that storm. It can be quite the mundane grind at times in some respects. That is the reason certain types of gear and skill don't change hands often and tend to command a higher price when they do show up for sale.

My "Ah ha" moments are when it becomes obvious I am in a bad loot cycle. So that is my que to change something if I want to continue playing or I am willing to risk the peds for codex or markup in some way. I had a so-so mining run this last weekend with only one global but my hit rate was pretty good and I was finding a lot of higher markup resources and those that weren't contributed to quests and skill builds. I have spots that I frequent because even in the down times they tend to be less loss via markup.

I have to take myself out of the game mechanics to some extent and think about what is beneficial for my bankroll at that given time and whether I am fine with playing a higher risk/greater reward style of play or being more conservative and how that aligns with the goals I have for my avatar.

The phenomenal loots are awesome and I've had a few over the years but they are very short lived unless the planets align and you loot a 2.0 weapon or other gear that suits your skill level and profession to help you weather the loot cycles with less risk.

When I compare EU space to other space sim like games out there it becomes a little more clear. A high risk activity in a space sim game might be attacking another ship that outmatches what you've got but your dog fighting skills might be superior to the other pilot giving you an advantage. In EU space and normal gameplay it seems more akin to an interactive table top game. You pit your gear, in-game skills, and hit points against a foe and battle it out in a hit point duel. Mining is similar but its about the find and not the foe and crafting is about the item construction. Gear, skills, and HP give you an edge and why they are worth something. PVP in EU does take real life skills but you are still at the mercy of the hit or miss plus a lower equipped avatar might get a critical hit you can't survive. Also over-arching all of this is MA's ability to tweak variables from update to update. For players this means a rolling adapt or die situation and each avatar is on their own path so to speak.

If I get the itch for some real skill based dog fighting I don't do it in EU. EU is still compelling though and I can wrap my head around the table top game mechanics because I used to play those a lot back in the day. I understand your frustration, EU space was a huge disappoint to me when it was implemented but I adapted and found other options they just weren't EU. I don't blame MA either they are working within the framework of their game and it has it's limitations. Maybe UE5 will expand those limitations but it all depends on their development path.

I thought this was an extremely well-written post. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. I'm chewing on what you said

 

[Alina]

Main problem is some players dont have patience nor the right budget for some things. From speaking with some of them imo they have way to low samples. You can't craft level 13 and make 20-30 clicks then go BAZOOKA mode when you have 20% success rate.

As i said in few hundred post before. Wanna succeed ? Focus on markup and ignore everything as long you do it the right way (but in most cases they are doing the wrong way > bad gear, unmaxed bps, no markup mining)).

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

We all want less volatility. Mindark wants more apparently. I agree with you. They seem to want people to become more frustrated and discontented.

Speak for yourself. I want the old volatility back! I feel disconnected when I look at a 90% TT back more often than not and get mostly fillers that are worthless and costly to extract. And on top I can look with a naked eye and see where Im getting screwed.

Poker has by far way higher volatility than Entropia and THAT is what keeps making recreational players come back every time and deposit more money. The fact they can actually win once in a while even playing badly.
However the edges a good player piles up along the way makes them win still way more than lose in the long run... And trust me its a very long run! If you feel entitled to some return after pressing a button in a slot machine based model of return, you would probably just cry when your aces get cracked in the final table of a major tourney.
You guys want to turn entropia into a chess contest where the newb has absolutely no chance to compete by taking the road of no volatility and only skills matter. And then fight against TT return instead of market cause everyone grinds the most EV line while the 3 core professions game economys is disconnected and disabled on a RCE game.

As a potential depositor I can tell you Im not depositing a single more penny if the route is the latter...

 

[Vadio]

98% of this is Minning - with LVL5/D-class using most time tm8/dsec/cgr
around that less 1% is taxed like foma/hell/ug/moon etc etc

Guys wonder why i salt? in discord? here go......

Myself is Rank 108 Prospector.......( near 109)
That awalys keep ask for new tools , after all statment from mindark use tools that fir you level , higest finder in game is C70 .... second is C65/and/Roctec Cougar(aka cgr) still expect finders for it

Next time you see one good hit from me... remind this....

Another point guys can point out its about 2yr time frame in 08-09-10-11-12/19 i did try hard like awalys however tt as so bad near 70-80% return across all this 5 moth that follow that in 2020 and 2021 play alot less , before this happen usual cycle 100-200k per moth with plan to go 300k with this in mind testing and wait some fix finaly .... loot become good again in 12/2021.... in VU that change minning in caly and Go Dead After Simon Ath 15 - December if you missed out , in fact 10 min after ath , just gone forever and dont returned yet , at last to me


Peace out

 

[miathan]

98% of this is Minning - with LVL5/D-class using most time tm8/dsec/cgr
around that less 1% is taxed like foma/hell/ug/moon etc etc

Guys wonder why i salt? in discord? here go......

Myself is Rank 108 Prospector.......( near 109)

Next time you see one good hit from me... remind this....
Another point guts can probably point its about 2yr time frame in 08 09 10 11 12/19 i did try hard like awalys but tt is sit so bad in tt 70-80% that over next moth start spread out.... loot become good again in 12/2021.... in VU and Go Dead After Simon Ath , in fact 10 min after , just gone forever and dont returned yet

Peace out

That's really unexpected. I would have thought average TT in mining would be ~95%...

 

[miathan]

98% of this is Minning - with LVL5/D-class using most time tm8/dsec/cgr
around that less 1% is taxed like foma/hell/ug/moon etc etc

Guys wonder why i salt? in discord? here go......

Myself is Rank 108 Prospector.......( near 109)

Next time you see one good hit from me... remind this....
Another point guts can probably point its about 2yr time frame in 08 09 10 11 12/19 i did try hard like awalys but tt is sit so bad in tt 70-80% that over next moth start spread out.... loot become good again in 12/2021.... in VU and Go Dead After Simon Ath , in fact 10 min after , just gone forever and dont returned yet

Peace out

My mining:

47,415.99

49,454.77

104.30%

Just a happy noob though. Mostly outdoor and unamped.

 

[Alina]

That's really unexpected. I would have thought average TT in mining would be ~95%...

At some point i had 2 mils cost mining with 101% return, why ? cuz i had many 90-92% hunting runs with high eff (imk2/fen weapons)

Vadio you have your tt loss registered now it might take even more for you to get out of this hole. I understand your frustration tho but thats your problem lack of patience. Myself i dont care how much tt i lose i ignore it.

 

[John uncguy43 Williams]

At some point i had 2 mils cost mining with 101% return, why ? cuz i had many 90-92% hunting runs with high eff (imk2/fen weapons)

Vadio you have your tt loss registered now it might take even more for you to get out of this hole. I understand your frustration tho but thats your problem lack of patience. Myself i dont care how much tt i lose i ignore it.

I think your points are all fair, Alina. I'm not disagreeing that MU is the goal of the game and that TT should be somewhat irrelevant to those of us who plan to play indefinitely. The challenge is when TT is so low that MU can't compensate. But that's probably a discussion for a different forum thread that is wider than the simple mining qualm I've surfaced here.

 

[Vadio]

Exact i dont mind mindark take their cut... problem with actual state of economy you cant cover you costs , note i dont even talk about profit here

You expect that many years of grind in Skill based game pay off , but guess you know.....

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

The challenge is when TT is so low that MU can't compensate. But that's probably a discussion for a different forum thread that is wider than the simple mining qualm I've surfaced here.

Thats when it comes handy to pick up a calculator and make sure you are doing everything right! Trust your math and process and keep going at it. Thats part of variance.

As far as the MU not being enough part. Well yeah, its documented with many solutions posted on forum and through support tickets. If MA doesn´t act on it its probbly because they disagree...

 

[Deleted member 58836]

There is a slot machine mechanic built into loot which competes with the loot 2.0 mechanic of balancing TT returns based on gear/skills/etc. It would be a wise choice to curb your activities after 5-6 digit HOF. The house will rake that back eventually. Even in Vadio's scenario, that's just one big (or a few smaller) loots away from evening out. Just because you sit at the slot machine all day doesn't guarantee you'll win the Jackpot...but it does increase your chances.

 

[Msturlese]

i mine only unamped.
game ha smemory and i experiecne the same 95..98% returns pretty steady as i get in hunting
maybe all is about amping but in my small esperience of F105 mining i see pretty the ame as crafting and hunting.
game is much about misperception
and trying to approximate a series liek a student T (with a bunch of data).. game randomizer has a LONG period
but there is a dogwalk effect that reverts to mean in the mid long term.