atomicstorm
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I wanted to share a little bit of insight and have a thread that can be used as reference, as I am DM'd repeatedly by people asking for information and to be fair, I have also been DMing folks to compare notes only to find that their way of calculating is wrong. There are several folks purposefully giving bad advice and misleading information, and feel the need to post this to make sure folks are not led astray, like I have been through the years.
* This is also to say that not all folks sharing their logs or sharing them privately with me without the below information are purposefully giving bad information.
Let's break down a few misconceptions, the way the game works from a simple view, and how to properly calculate returns:
ROI vs TT%
Every few days, we see players say they had 25% returns. This is not possible unless you are condition crafting (gambling) or always hitting the minimum multiplier of every mob on non-taxed land, which is 0.25x.
Why do I say non-taxed land?
Because the lowest multiplier on taxed land is less than 0.25x. This means the lower and upper bounds of your loot is influenced by tax. Shocker! (Not really)
What is the player experiencing then?
The player is reflecting the ROI of his deposits.
Example:
TT returns by percentage, otherwise known as return to player (RTP), is calculated by the return of funds through turnover/gameplay.
Example:
The player will always lose to the house when it comes to RTP. The odds can be increased through improving of levels and efficiencies. The more important metric is ROI, which is influenced on markup obtained - from all activities. Getting 90% RTP but 15% markup is much better than 98% RTP and 2% markup.
Peri Mutuel systems
Entropia Universe runs on a modified form of a peri mutuel system. Racehorse L2 casinos and poker (specifically tournaments) are examples. This is not to say that Entropia IS a peri muteul system, it is that they share similar qualities. If it was a full peri muteul system, it would be illegal in several jurisdictions (even though there are several illegal operations running in Entropia today). This is to say that we are all playing against each other with the house being the controlling house.
While we do not know Entropia Universe's black box algorithm and could be clouded by coding flaws, we do know the general principles behind it.
The what:
Players receive loot in return for their activities, based on the following criteria (RTP impact):
Loot composition, good stuff vs. shrapnel (which can be better in some cases) is based on the following criteria:
Mindark and planet partners receive a rake (commission) based on player activity within the universe. The amount of commission is dependent upon several factors:
Whether you use a tracker, a spreadsheet, or both, there's a right way and wrong way to calculate returns. Some of metrics can be shifted depending on how you want to treat mechanics like shrapnel conversions. However, how that is treated creates significant variations between player's reports on their RTP (TT%).
TT return = Total Returns / Total Cost
Why is it not TT In / TT Out? Simply that it is proven that armor and fap decay is returned in loot. Additionally, shrapnel gained from enhancer breaks is also returned in loot. This influences your returns. If you are not tracking these, your returns are misleading (at best).
Therefore
TT Return = (TT In) / (TT Out + Armor Decay + FAP Decay + Attachment Decay + Consumables/Pills [TT] + Mindforce Attachment Decay)
When comparing logs, players tend to not include armor decay and other expenditures. Since you can influence loot from armor decay, this creates a very misleading hunting log. Additionally, it is often that players do not include enhancer costs. The TT of the enhancer breaks are included in your TT In. You can include enhancer MU spent in separate part of the ledger as markup costs that goes against your markup earned. The markup costs of your activity heavily impact your EV (expected value) and in some cases, means you spend more markup than earn.
Your ledger should show:
Shrapnel Conversions
Shrapnel conversions are a source of 1% MU of converted (it is much less in practice). Including it in your TT is misleading, but some players may choose to do so for simplicity. However, if you choose to include it as TT, it must always be included as TT if you sell it on auction; where you lose the Markup. This is why it is markup not bonus TT. Different behavior means you have a mismatch.
Example
Player A starts with 1000 PED. The player converts shrapnel 500ped twice at the end of the hunt (or run).
If you are writing on a notepad, it looks like:
Ammo: 1000, 505, 505 (50)
TT: 2000
Shrapnel: 500, 500
What does this mean?
Ammo is converted and thus increasing by 505 each time (500 x 1.01) and the hunt is ended with 50 ped of ammo.
The player had exactly 2000 ped at the end of the hunt.
Player converted 1000 ped of shrapnel and in the markup earned category should put 1000 x 101% or 10 ped of markup.
The player spent the markup of the shrapnel immediately (self-consumed) and was left with 50ped of ammo at the end.
The player had 102% TT from the encounter, assuming no other decays as we're keeping the example simple: 2000 / (1000+505+505-50) = 102%
Expected Value
Expected Value (EV) is the expectation of profit or ruin over a long period based on odds and other influences.
Example
Please follow this example closely, it is important!
Example A:
Downloads
Here's a spreadsheet posted long ago that I made available for use: https://github.com/atomicstorm/EUHuntingLogger
I will make some additional improvements to the spreadsheet above, but you can use this freely, for personal use only, to help guide you along the way.
And lastly: question everything, even what comes from the most trusted of players. (including myself)
Other Resources
* This is also to say that not all folks sharing their logs or sharing them privately with me without the below information are purposefully giving bad information.
Let's break down a few misconceptions, the way the game works from a simple view, and how to properly calculate returns:
ROI vs TT%
Every few days, we see players say they had 25% returns. This is not possible unless you are condition crafting (gambling) or always hitting the minimum multiplier of every mob on non-taxed land, which is 0.25x.
Why do I say non-taxed land?
Because the lowest multiplier on taxed land is less than 0.25x. This means the lower and upper bounds of your loot is influenced by tax. Shocker! (Not really)
What is the player experiencing then?
The player is reflecting the ROI of his deposits.
Example:
- Player A deposited 1000 PED. By the end of the week (7 days), the player now has 250 PED. The ROI is -75%. Annualized ROI is -100%, because of obvious reasons.
- Player B deposited 1000 PED. By the end of the week (7 days), the player now has 2000 PED. The ROI of the capital deposited is 100%. The annualized ROI is 5200% from that 1 week. We know that it isn't always that way, but you should get the idea.
TT returns by percentage, otherwise known as return to player (RTP), is calculated by the return of funds through turnover/gameplay.
Example:
- Player A deposited 1000 PED. He plays for 1 week and cycles 5000 PED. He is left with 250 PED. We can deduce that his TT return, assuming they did not buy any items, is 4250 PED. The player's RTP is 85%, otherwise stated, the player had 85% TT. (This is why bankroll management is important). The player's ROI is -75%.
The player will always lose to the house when it comes to RTP. The odds can be increased through improving of levels and efficiencies. The more important metric is ROI, which is influenced on markup obtained - from all activities. Getting 90% RTP but 15% markup is much better than 98% RTP and 2% markup.
Peri Mutuel systems
Entropia Universe runs on a modified form of a peri mutuel system. Racehorse L2 casinos and poker (specifically tournaments) are examples. This is not to say that Entropia IS a peri muteul system, it is that they share similar qualities. If it was a full peri muteul system, it would be illegal in several jurisdictions (even though there are several illegal operations running in Entropia today). This is to say that we are all playing against each other with the house being the controlling house.
While we do not know Entropia Universe's black box algorithm and could be clouded by coding flaws, we do know the general principles behind it.
The what:
Players receive loot in return for their activities, based on the following criteria (RTP impact):
- Looter levels (animal, robot, mutant)
- Disclosure: If looter affects Mindark's commission, then it is OK. If it is player competitive, this is a pyramid scheme and would be illegal in all jurisdictions. Which way it is configured is largely discussed and disputed by the community. For this guide, we will assume that it is not competitive.
- Efficiency of weapon (0 to 100%)
- Having hit/damage levels for the weapon being used
- Having necessary QR (and levels) for the crafting blueprint used
- Exploitation of waves (otherwise known as "knowledge")
- Multiplier/loot caps based on mob markers
- Disclosure: There is conversation within the community about certain mobs having upper-bound multiplier caps, such as shared tagged mobs.
Loot composition, good stuff vs. shrapnel (which can be better in some cases) is based on the following criteria:
- DPP (damage per Pec)
- Resource caps
- Waves, most loot is not randomized but is instead, timed.
- Damage / Cost
- Armor and healing decay (influenced by Evader/Dodge)
- Faster kills (influenced by regen rates)
Mindark and planet partners receive a rake (commission) based on player activity within the universe. The amount of commission is dependent upon several factors:
- Planet partner agreements where the activity is performed
- Where the player started
- Affiliate commissions (several select players through the years plus NFT egg holders have received affiliate links granting them a specific % of referral's rake to Mindark)
- Revenue instrument impacts (CLDs, NI deeds)
- Whether or not the player activity is impacted by land area tax
- There is no evidence that Mindark influences RTP based on withdrawals in queue.
- There is no evidence of deposit bonus HOFs or improved RTP because of depositing more vs. withdrawing more.
- Mindark receives their revenue from player activity, not solely decay, based on a fixed % influenced by RTP influences noted above.
- Mindark does not receive their revenue from deposits. Deposits are liabilities in their reports, much like banks. Mindark must have players continually cycle their PED cards to generate revenue. Hence the repeated events (despite removing Summer Mayhem to reduce events only to add a dozen more). Deposits are only a means for additional opportunities for player cycle.
- Arkadia born player hunts 1 PED mob on Calypso with 3DPP (damage per pec). Player receives 0.90 PED back from the loot pool. From the 1 PED, mindark takes X% (we don't know, it is a black box). This is split amongst Arkadia (for the referral), Calypso for the activity, and from the funds going to Calypso, CLD owners will receive their 50% cut.
- Calypso born player hunts 5 PED mob on an Arkadia taxed LA at 5%. Player receives 0.90 PED back. 0.045 PED (effectively) goes to the taxed LA owner, the commission set (which we don't know) on the 5 PED activity is split amongst Calypso and CLD owners, Arkadia (for the activity), and the 0.045 PED mentioned above for the LA owner.
Whether you use a tracker, a spreadsheet, or both, there's a right way and wrong way to calculate returns. Some of metrics can be shifted depending on how you want to treat mechanics like shrapnel conversions. However, how that is treated creates significant variations between player's reports on their RTP (TT%).
TT return = Total Returns / Total Cost
Why is it not TT In / TT Out? Simply that it is proven that armor and fap decay is returned in loot. Additionally, shrapnel gained from enhancer breaks is also returned in loot. This influences your returns. If you are not tracking these, your returns are misleading (at best).
Therefore
TT Return = (TT In) / (TT Out + Armor Decay + FAP Decay + Attachment Decay + Consumables/Pills [TT] + Mindforce Attachment Decay)
When comparing logs, players tend to not include armor decay and other expenditures. Since you can influence loot from armor decay, this creates a very misleading hunting log. Additionally, it is often that players do not include enhancer costs. The TT of the enhancer breaks are included in your TT In. You can include enhancer MU spent in separate part of the ledger as markup costs that goes against your markup earned. The markup costs of your activity heavily impact your EV (expected value) and in some cases, means you spend more markup than earn.
Your ledger should show:
- TT In: Loot returning to you
- TT Out: Weapon Cost, Ammo Cost, Armor Decay, FAP Decay, Attachment Decay, Consumables/Pills [TT], Mindforce Attachment Decay)
- Markup Earned: Markup of items SOLD, Event Bonuses, Event Prizes
- Markup Spent: Limited items bought, mind essences (in whole including TT), nutrio bars (in whole including TT), enhancer markup (only, not the TT), markup spent on opening boxes**, as examples.
- You can include markup boxes as markup spent as long as you add markup earned by items from boxes in the markup earned category. The ledger must be balanced.
- Assets (Spent over Sold values)
- Deposits vs. Withdrawals
- Box Markup (if you choose to track it separately)
Shrapnel Conversions
Shrapnel conversions are a source of 1% MU of converted (it is much less in practice). Including it in your TT is misleading, but some players may choose to do so for simplicity. However, if you choose to include it as TT, it must always be included as TT if you sell it on auction; where you lose the Markup. This is why it is markup not bonus TT. Different behavior means you have a mismatch.
Example
Player A starts with 1000 PED. The player converts shrapnel 500ped twice at the end of the hunt (or run).
If you are writing on a notepad, it looks like:
Ammo: 1000, 505, 505 (50)
TT: 2000
Shrapnel: 500, 500
What does this mean?
Ammo is converted and thus increasing by 505 each time (500 x 1.01) and the hunt is ended with 50 ped of ammo.
The player had exactly 2000 ped at the end of the hunt.
Player converted 1000 ped of shrapnel and in the markup earned category should put 1000 x 101% or 10 ped of markup.
The player spent the markup of the shrapnel immediately (self-consumed) and was left with 50ped of ammo at the end.
The player had 102% TT from the encounter, assuming no other decays as we're keeping the example simple: 2000 / (1000+505+505-50) = 102%
Expected Value
Expected Value (EV) is the expectation of profit or ruin over a long period based on odds and other influences.
Example
Please follow this example closely, it is important!
Example A:
- You determine the baseline as player for hunting is 97%.
- You hunt Smelly Mob Category 10
- Your overall markup potential is 3%.
- You enhance 10 enhancers at an average cost of 0.12% per enhancer of markup.
- You cycle: 10,000 PED
- Your expected return from the baseline is: 9,700 PED
- Your expected markup is: 9700 * 0.03 = 291 PED
- Markup earned (the percentage) is based on TT in because it is:
- Based on goods you already have
- Because getting a kickback HOF is always in shrapnel at 1% (we won't get into adjusted overall markups, but this would add or reduce markup based on the likelihood that the difference of baseline is influenced by a shrapnel HOF)
- Markup earned (the percentage) is based on TT in because it is:
- Your P/L is -299 PED or -9PED under break even.
- Enhancer break is approximately 1.2% of your turnover or 120 PED of enhancers, increasing your P/L to -129 PED.
- Hunting 10 hours for this result, the EV of this is -$1.29/hour over the long term making this activity and configuration a negative EV situation.
- If you are going to hunt this, for a specific reason:
- Then it is better to not enhance for an improved EV situation; which would still be negative at -$0.09/hour.
- Or Improve weapon efficiencies or looter
Downloads
Here's a spreadsheet posted long ago that I made available for use: https://github.com/atomicstorm/EUHuntingLogger
I will make some additional improvements to the spreadsheet above, but you can use this freely, for personal use only, to help guide you along the way.
And lastly: question everything, even what comes from the most trusted of players. (including myself)
Other Resources
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