Should ALL useable items be crafted only

[forgo]

My 2 pecs..
Most crafters atm are gamblers..
They click a huge amount cousing big fluctuations in mu (just check the gazz for lvl 2 amps)
nothing good can come from it, imo it's better to have a lower, more steady markup on regular loot.
I'm not even considering the (rare) UL drops.. If it wasn't for that UL HL15, R150, MOD LR53 or arcsparc I got in loot, I would be playing Project Ion..
Anyone who says let the crafters conrol markup either doesn't know this game or has a gambling addict.
I have a buffer of +20k ped to sell L stuff or stackables whenever I want to (mu is ok'ish)
The day I'm dependant from crafters is the day I sell my 40k ped TT hunting skills + gear + storage!
If anyone can name me 5 crafters who make a regular profit vs hunters, not counting uber uber loots, I might relook at things but atm.. most ppl who profit (doesn't matter how much & trading/resellers can FUCK OFF) are either hunting or mining

Das

I quality craft only goods people buy, I do make profit, far more than I ever did or have hunting (withdrew 10k usd profits from hunting a couple years ago), but that profit is dissappearing as the need for people to buy are now almost gone. What enables my profit? investment in BPS, which is now also deteriorating.

Many of the previously profitable crafters have already stopped, rates are shitty, we cant compete with items already assembled and looted vs spend 30 minutes +300 ped on a maybe, which even if it became a weapon now sells for less thanks to other drops. So many crafters take a loss generally just to move goods and gain skill....which takes ages less than hunting or mining.

2k Ped in hunting can cycle fast, 2k ped in crafting can take longer. One of us is bottlenecked by demand. Mobs are always there dropping markup.

I am in the predicament of having a few hundred k in a game that doesn't seem to be doing much of anything towards ensuring markets in crafting.

I spent 80k in blueprints, and still am stuck with concerning balancing issues that directly affect those investments.

The day I am not dependant on hunters and miners is the day my investment doesn't even have value to sell.

 

[remontoire]

For a perspective - there used to be Geotrek Apis(L). Anybody remember the weekly sales numbers? Or its smaller brother Manis(L) ? Or crafted handguns from Svempa? There is only a miniscule amount of crafted guns on market now. And looking at names, not that many crafters bothering to craft weapons.

And then people complain about low MU in loot? What does anybody need your loot for?

 

[Andreso]

And then people complain about low MU in loot? What does anybody need your loot for?

exactly that

 

[Vedder]

For a perspective - there used to be Geotrek Apis(L). Anybody remember the weekly sales numbers? Or its smaller brother Manis(L) ? Or crafted handguns from Svempa? There is only a miniscule amount of crafted guns on market now. And looking at names, not that many crafters bothering to craft weapons.

And then people complain about low MU in loot? What does anybody need your loot for?

So what?

I really don't think you understand how all this works.
No matter how MA arrange things, MU is paid by players to other players. If you want more MU, someone else has to pay it.


And your case: If we (hunters) get our guns for much less MU now, because they drop often in loot, then it's probably balanced by the crap loot (oils etc) mu went from avg 103% to 102% mu. (Or whatever)

There's no magic. We can't just get more MU. MA can take from one group and give to another. That's what you suggest they do. Bad idea imo.

 

[forgo]

For a perspective - there used to be Geotrek Apis(L). Anybody remember the weekly sales numbers? Or its smaller brother Manis(L) ? Or crafted handguns from Svempa? There is only a miniscule amount of crafted guns on market now. And looking at names, not that many crafters bothering to craft weapons.

And then people complain about low MU in loot? What does anybody need your loot for?

I remember paying a pretty ped for a decent QR Apis BP that completely got devalued 100% by MA, the balancing, and the insane amount of limited drops over the last year.

I have a mark.6a bp i paid 8k for. IT had been my best money maker over the years until they changed uses for alien acid. Now the bp is a loss to click.

I certainly feel that as soon as I find a product that can actually get a return, MA changes the formula, to make sure I cant.

 

[rastamannen]

I remember paying a pretty ped for a decent QR Apis BP that completely got devalued 100% by MA, the balancing, and the insane amount of limited drops over the last year.

I have a mark.6a bp i paid 8k for. IT had been my best money maker over the years until they changed uses for alien acid. Now the bp is a loss to click.

I certainly feel that as soon as I find a product that can actually get a return, MA changes the formula, to make sure I cant.

Thats pretty much the same in hunting, as soon in find a mob that gives good profits they change settings so its not possible to profit in the long run.

 

[aia]

There's no magic

The removal of generic Components like ATAU from loots, maybe?

 

[Doer]

I remember paying a pretty ped for a decent QR Apis BP that completely got devalued 100% by MA, the balancing, and the insane amount of limited drops over the last year.

I have a mark.6a bp i paid 8k for. IT had been my best money maker over the years until they changed uses for alien acid. Now the bp is a loss to click.

I certainly feel that as soon as I find a product that can actually get a return, MA changes the formula, to make sure I cant.

The management of the game definitely discourages long-term planning and goals. I acquired a complete rascal (L) bp set and skilled up a ibt to use it, and then used it quite a bit myself for my own use, but between taking erd out of drones and pushing up the MU on it, it's just not a good use of resources anymore.

It's happened several times with different plans of mine.

 

[SpikeBlack]

Long term planning usually results in less spending. Keeping everyone guessing as to what's next is always a good way to keep the money rolling in.

 

[Doer]

Long term planning usually results in less spending. Keeping everyone guessing as to what's next is always a good way to keep the money rolling in.

Well i definitely disagree with that. Uncertainty always discourages investment.

Anyway this is a balancing issue, and MA has failed in the extreme at balancing resources for a few years.

They probably should reevaluate existing bp recipes and revise according to the current hierarchy of rare resources as appropriate, but it's much easier to just release new ones. While this is a short-term win, it is a long-term losing strategy for the reason i described above in my post about the way they've tried (sort of) a crafting economy and because they didn't leave things (L) enough, have to devalue otherwise perfectly good items to get new carrots to dangle. People only fall for things so many times.

 

[shoti]

Yes, except case which whole game is hunting based exclusively. it work well for other MMO's so no reason it coulden't work good here.

 

[K-Max]

I would say not all but most.

There should be more rare item loot drops from hunting that's for sure. There has been so many items looted this year nothing anymore is worth anything everyone is trying to undersell the next just to get some PED making everything TT food. It is mainly to blame on all these events and having tons of items looted. I have never seen the markets so saturated with stuff before this last few months in the 3 years I've been playing. I understand the 10 year celebration but they are killing their own game and player base because there really is no reason to invest to play an RCE without the hope of selling for profits.

Along with to many items is the addition of way to many new items making the old items obsolete and worthless after people spent so much getting them. Seems every few months there is 50+ new bps introduced obsoleting the ones a crafter just maxed out and can craft effectively which makes them loose value fast on their investment into getting there.

The ignoring to fix the things people want fixed is also leading to quitting, there are people that like the clothing and beauty aspects of the game and those that want taming or their investments in CLD's to come to life as promised. There are big time players gone AWoL or quitting in clothing and beauty professions because of bugs that should be fixed. CLD owners are still waiting for their voting system that was suppose to be in place in next 15 days and won't be, so may as well rule out the dream of claiming 3x3 block of land and building a house as well. They have been working on Taming for 3 years, last news it is on paper but they are workign on new thing fishing which will also never get off paper. The list just keeps going on and on of neglect to important things.

Instead we got some needless and pointless graphics changes to menu's, and avatar creations, and not just once but many times over. Most drastic effect on game play was the avatar creation system destroying the investments of beauty professions by giving free makeovers out every 8-10 months it seems. Why would anyone ever use an avatar and pay when you know another one for free is coming.

It just seems it is getting worse and worse, with this last year leading to major economical impacts IMO, they may be improving graphics but playable aspect is suffering with every VU or patch fix. Not just on Calypso but EU as a whole.

Just my ramblings, you can ignore if you like.

 

[Kitch]

sure if you want the majority (if not every single one) of the heavy ped cyclers to quit, cash out and let the game and MA bleed out and shut down.

actually that PRECISELY what I want

increase in markup of residue might not be such a bad thing since at least one type of residue comes from hunting.... if items in loot of mobs dropped, stuff like the markup on res would make up for the markup lost on those items, etc. It's all about balancing things out... eventually it'd all balance itself out as the market always does eventually.

this ^^

OP basically suggests that more of the hunting MU (nearly none already) should be moved to the crafters. Ofc hunters disagree.

cant reli agree with that, for one crafting markup is always no better than break even at absolute best compared to the ingredients MU, and the way I envisage this working, if they balanced it smartly, would increase average mu for hunting loot, because of course, the mats would actually be required... I mean mainly servicing tailors is just useless..

I have a mark.6a bp i paid 8k for. IT had been my best money maker over the years until they changed uses for alien acid. Now the bp is a loss to click.

Exactly it is dependent on how smart they get the do the bps, etc. but still, like people are saying, hardly any weapons need to be crafted, and basically no armour.. its just not the way for an economy to work anyone can see that

They probably should reevaluate existing bp recipes and revise according to the current hierarchy of rare resources as appropriate, but it's much easier to just release new ones. While this is a short-term win, it is a long-term losing strategy for the reason i described above in my post about the way they've tried (sort of) a crafting economy and because they didn't leave things (L) enough, have to devalue otherwise perfectly good items to get new carrots to dangle. People only fall for things so many times.

yeah all of that ^^

 

[Sub-Zero]

All armor should be crafted. All weapons should be crafted but, most important thing is to make new ingredients to make the economy balanced, they need to add new loot (ingredients for all weapons/armors) to mobs based on the usefulness of the weapon/armor. As for mining can use current resources.


This would improve hunting because more MU in loot. And not to mention overall most weapons/armors will have lower MU, since it will be the crafters that will decide the MU not the hunters and MA won't decide the drop rate of the weapons/armors.

Overall it will improve the whole economy I think.

 

[JohnCapital]

most important thing is to make new ingredients to make the economy balanced

I disagree with this part.

They need to take the ingredients that are already ingame and use them in more BPs. THere's a whole chunk ok material that have been all but neglected from the get-go. (boards, anyone?)

The LAST thing we need is even more stackables to loot.

 

[jqkill]

The LAST thing we need is even more stackables to loot.

next island comes to mind...ugh

 

[Vedder]

...
cant reli agree with that, for one crafting markup is always no better than break even at absolute best compared to the ingredients MU
...

No, that's not true. But ofc it's very hard to find those rare ones where you can actually get extra mu. That's what all crafters are looking for.

...and the way I envisage this working, if they balanced it smartly, would increase average mu for hunting loot, because of course, the mats would actually be required... I mean mainly servicing tailors is just useless..
...

So you want to make it so smart so both crafters and hunters get more mu?
Try to think about that for a few minutes.
Only way that will be possible, is if we also PAY more mu. MU can't be magically conjured. We have to pay for it for it to exist.

Ah, whatever! Feels like I'm going in circles.
I made my point. Have a nice day all of you.

 

[aia]

The LAST thing we need is even more stackables to loot.

Didn't we get a new breed of Components a few VUs ago? Electromatrix Components and such? (They look like enhancer craftting Components but with other colors).

 

[remontoire]

Didn't we get a new breed of Components a few VUs ago? Electromatrix Components and such? (They look like enhancer craftting Components but with other colors).

3 components in 3 levels. We also got replacements to previous generic components, in the form of basic/advanced/enhanced wave emitters and adaptive fuses. At the time when Aves, Ursus, Karma Killer (L) and so on came out. Over a year ago by now.

 

[Kitch]

So you want to make it so smart so both crafters and hunters get more mu?
Try to think about that for a few minutes.
Only way that will be possible, is if we also PAY more mu. MU can't be magically conjured. We have to pay for it for it to exist.

No need to think for a few minutes, clearly your right but what Im imagining is en economy where there were more small and frequent deposits. And people aimed to deposit less often, rather than always having the aim to never depo. But if you were hunting and you could see an active, vibrant (sound like gordon brown now economy were stuff does have markup, not 102% but over 110% but shifting. Then you can see potential to profit if you make the right decisions or obviously get lucky.

Basically to sum up, I may not have a clue about economics, I may not be a veteran of this game, but one thing I can say is that crafters should craft, and should be fundamental to the game economy. And a system that doesnt work this way is basically a broken system.