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FYI: Smilgs hunting log - 2016 and beyond

and here the positive mobs (results with MU included significant profit)
can see it in the Google spreadsheet as well, but if I know people well enough, not many ever stumble there :)
index.php
 
girtsn said:
For the very first time I think an actual results update during the month :)
Thank you all that motivated me going this far.
Enhancers, other used MU and events MU written down and wrapped up like a proper hunting log should, which brings this month to proper green.
GL out there!

November 2022 = +18,938 hunting (94.64% tt)
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At what price do you value boxes and tokens? Gratz on the result!
 
Rimmer said:
At what price do you value boxes and tokens? Gratz on the result!
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I did not value them, I sold them. To be clear, tokens were collected over the last events not only from November.
 
girtsn said:
and here the positive mobs (results with MU included significant profit)
can see it in the Google spreadsheet as well, but if I know people well enough, not many ever stumble there :)
index.php
Click to expand...
i cannot read the table there is not a visible aggregation of data to me
first line if i see the -87 TT that should be at 97.66% = 3.733 original "run" i expect to have for 1615 "Runs" a total of 6.028.795 ped. This is not the case also including repair
sorry but i cannot understand the meaning of the various columns and how one is linked to the other
i understnad that the MV% is (the percentage of profit on MU items is 4.83% on average) vut this is my reading

all in all the only number that has a menaing is (TT return + MU extracted- cost to kill) / total ped cycled that explains a ratio of total return on the monster in percentage
can you please elaborate such a number in a column? it seems to me that pop dragons and osseo are most interesting
 
Msturlese said:
i cannot read the table there is not a visible aggregation of data to me
first line if i see the -87 TT that should be at 97.66% = 3.733 original "run" i expect to have for 1615 "Runs" a total of 6.028.795 ped. This is not the case also including repair
sorry but i cannot understand the meaning of the various columns and how one is linked to the other
i understnad that the MV% is (the percentage of profit on MU items is 4.83% on average) vut this is my reading

all in all the only number that has a menaing is (TT return + MU extracted- cost to kill) / total ped cycled that explains a ratio of total return on the monster in percentage
can you please elaborate such a number in a column? it seems to me that pop dragons and osseo are most interesting
Click to expand...
a "run" is just an indication of how many ~4 hour iterationss of "hunting then write down results" were done, i.e. approximately how much time was spent
each "run" tracks:
  • ammo tt
  • return tt
  • repair tt
  • mu un top of tt (written when items sell)
for each run (not in the summary), there is a formula which calculates TT (balance in TT) and MV (balance in TT + MU)
what you in the per mob table is a summary of the balances (TT and MV) and sum of the ammo spent and repairs
sum of MV = total balance on that mob including MU, and sum of TT = total balance on that mob in TT
these are the most intersting inputs, the others are mainly needed to arrive at the percentages
per run MV and per run TT might not be very interesting but I guess I thought they were at one point :)

pop dragons are an outlier because a lot of it was during the Rocktropia "esi rain"
and osseos is very interesting because a lot of it was hunting on my own LA, taxed at ~4% and what I got from the taxes was not included in this
it is true that osseos gave some very high hofs at the time
 
A cool read, but scary to read how you got burned on multiple items because mindark nerfs or alters ingame systems after introduction.
 
Alina said:
For instance now no matter if you have 100 looter or 85-90 eff you can have on big hp mobs a bad swing.
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For some reason a lot of people fail to understand the difference between a 90 eff gun and 70 eff gun is literally 1.4% in TT returns. Saw some people complain about "80% tt returns" because they can't afford a loot 2.0 gun when its due to hunting outside their bankroll (big hp mobs). Even ubers have huge swings and need to cycle a massive amount on them to see EV :confused:
 
counting everything you have with skills, items etc... are you up or down overall since playing and how much?

I mean you must have looted good items or won events etc..
 
MrFatBoy said:
counting everything you have with skills, items etc... are you up or down overall since playing and how much?

I mean you must have looted good items or won events etc..
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The answer is in his Original Post
if we DISREGARD HIS valuation of time (Sorry Girts you are not supposed to be paid to have fun)

he got 38k USD return
and if he quits another 76k usd

~+38k$ return.
2) ~76k usd back (from selling items)
best case selling bulk avatar skills etc ~65k usd back (IT WILL NOT HAPPEN SORRY :) )

so.. he got 114.000 USD to have fun over the years. this is the baseline.

so he extracted over 1m ped Markup in the game
this is no bullshitting about over ammo return, this is dedication
the only profit is the MU in this game, hof and globals means nothing but a smile

is it an activity? not in 20 years , that would probably feed a family in some remote 3rd world economy.

i think that i played 13 years WOW and only have VERY VALUABLE remembrances, but no money back,
if i was here since 2008 when i made the account i dream to be able to realize 20% of his success story
that would be a small car in my garage and lots of fun.
 
Msturlese said:
The answer is in his Original Post
if we DISREGARD HIS valuation of time (Sorry Girts you are not supposed to be paid to have fun)

he got 38k USD return
and if he quits another 76k usd

~+38k$ return.
2) ~76k usd back (from selling items)
best case selling bulk avatar skills etc ~65k usd back (IT WILL NOT HAPPEN SORRY :) )

so.. he got 114.000 USD to have fun over the years. this is the baseline.

so he extracted over 1m ped Markup in the game
this is no bullshitting about over ammo return, this is dedication
the only profit is the MU in this game, hof and globals means nothing but a smile

is it an activity? not in 20 years , that would probably feed a family in some remote 3rd world economy.

i think that i played 13 years WOW and only have VERY VALUABLE remembrances, but no money back,
if i was here since 2008 when i made the account i dream to be able to realize 20% of his success story
that would be a small car in my garage and lots of fun.
Click to expand...
thanks! guess i got lost reading thru everything and did not see the obvious first post info - doh!

@OP - you made 114K playing a video game and that's not enough???

dedication or not at least you made $ even if from MU - if everyone profited from MU no one would depo and then lights out.. so yea imo its part luck not just grinding

be thankful and stop crying - sorry, but seriously i think you are not seeing how lucky you are regardless of the effort put in- it is a game after all.

my returns suck so bad i am on another fuck you MA break - last one was 9 months i think, and that was probably the 4th one - not happy - do the same.
 
ohh and thanks for being honest and showing that you profited - so at least we know you are honest and not fishing for an MA buy back :)
 
Msturlese said:
if we DISREGARD HIS valuation of time (Sorry Girts you are not supposed to be paid to have fun)
...
best case selling bulk avatar skills etc ~65k usd back (IT WILL NOT HAPPEN SORRY :) )
...
so.. he got 114.000 USD to have fun over the years. this is the baseline.
...
the only profit is the MU in this game, hof and globals means nothing but a smile
Click to expand...
I updated the OP now that the balance is pretty much fixed besides sales to be made, the numbers are quite different since last update
evaluating time spent as $ in the RCE economy is relevant is when you pay shooters to do the shooting for you, and indeed I have been paying 4$ per hour :)
sure, that is perhaps not what MA thought when they introduced the game, but it is RCE and that was my model because I have a full time job and still wanted to be competitive in my primary hobby
and, time is money in a RCE in my opinion, but it is just that, my opinion
the activity of hunting is extremely boring once you do it for ~8 to 10 hours per day which used to be very respectable until the new generation and then the bots arrived. what was funny to me is that we got so many complaints about shooting 24/7 while we were not even close, and now that it is the reality with bots, nobody really complains anymore :) bots ftw. - I could switch as I can surely develop it for my use but won't as that is where I draw a line

about skills sale, if it does not happen in the convenient way, I will try to chip out everything worthwhile, will see if and how that works

what actually came from my pocket over the years was 169k euros - quite some of that is not salaries but deposits, so to say "he got around hundred thousand euros to have fun over the years" is misrepresenting a bit :)

absolutely right about MU - it has always been the main bread and butter, but TT was part of it before loot 2.0 for most serious players

MrFatBoy said:
my returns suck so bad i am on another fuck you MA break - last one was 9 months i think, and that was probably the 4th one - not happy - do the same.
Click to expand...
have a look at my "unlucky breaks", represented by the red stretches in the 2nd post - and consider that I was paying $4 per hour to push through. honestly the biggest motivator to keep going at those times was not the game, but just reluctance to fire the shooters for whom it was the main income for all these years
MrFatBoy said:
ohh and thanks for being honest and showing that you profited - so at least we know you are honest and not fishing for an MA buy back :)
Click to expand...
honesty is what I aimed for with this whole hunting log (and on selfish level to show MA that the returns are as shitty as I claim at the worst times)
I hope with time you will get someone else publishing a hunting log with some spreadsheet supporing the claims, but I suppose not since it was a lot of effort and little appreciation
otherwise, legends about mega profit it is - same way it was for a long time before I started this in 2012
 
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girtsn said:
I updated the OP now that the balance is pretty much fixed besides sales to be made, the numbers are quite different since last update
evaluating time spent as $ in the RCE economy is relevant is when you pay shooters to do the shooting for you, and indeed I have been paying 4$ per hour :)
sure, that is perhaps not what MA thought when they introduced the game, but it is RCE and that was my model because I have a full time job and still wanted to be competitive in my primary hobby
and, time is money in a RCE in my opinion, but it is just that, my opinion
the activity of hunting is extremely boring once you do it for ~8 to 10 hours per day which used to be very respectable until the new generation and then the bots arrived. what was funny to me is that we got so many complaints about shooting 24/7 while we were not even close, and now that it is the reality with bots, nobody really complains anymore :) bots ftw. - I could switch as I can surely develop it for my use but won't as that is where I draw a line

about skills sale, if it does not happen in the convenient way, I will try to chip out everything worthwhile, will see if and how that works

what actually came from my pocket over the years was 169k euros - quite somet of that is not salaries but deposits, so to say "he got around hundred thousand euros to have fun over the years" is misrepresenting a bit :)

absolutely right about MU - it has always been the main bread and butter, but TT was part of it since loot 2.0 for most serious players


have a look at my "unlucky breaks", represented by the red stretches in the 2nd post - and consider that I was paying $4 per hour to push through. honestly the biggest motivator to keep going at those times was not the game, but just reluctance to fire the shooters for whom it was the main income for all these years

honesty is what I aimed for with this whole hunting log (and on selfish level to show MA that the returns are as shitty as I claim at the worst times)
I hope with time you will get someone else publishing a hunting log with some spreadsheet supporing the claims, but I suppose not since it was a lot of effort and little appreciation
otherwise, legends about mega profit it is - same way it was for a long time before I started this in 2012
Click to expand...
You have my biggest respect for what it's worth. Thank you for sharing this information with us, best of luck with your next adventure.
 
girtsn said:
I could switch as I can surely develop it for my use but won't as that is where I draw a line
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Does that mean the $4 an hour to hire shooters was included in the costs at the end of every month? Or was that kept separate?

Also just out of curiosity whats the difference between the two that you draw the line there. Both methods achieve the same goal but one of them is free right? Botting yourself versus paying someone to bot on your account. Unless we arent talking about having a macro F spam here and you're talking about actual bots. Seems like people interchangeably use the term bot and macro though. No flame at all btw I love your log and been following since I started playing just wanted to hear your take on it
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
Reminds of gurus on social media channels. Starter players aren't calculating the amount of millions PED needed to reach this level.
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I think we all are really aware of the cycle to rise skills and how long it takes to manufacture levels.
looking at a 10 year tracking means just be prepared for similar swings and results. and every player style is different
do we recall Dan Dan Petrov and his 500 HP old times? it was way harder and his record stood for ages...
and he levelled on small monsters
 
Yazuki said:
Does that mean the $4 an hour to hire shooters was included in the costs at the end of every month? Or was that kept separate?

Also just out of curiosity whats the difference between the two that you draw the line there. Both methods achieve the same goal but one of them is free right? Botting yourself versus paying someone to bot on your account. Unless we arent talking about having a macro F spam here and you're talking about actual bots. Seems like people interchangeably use the term bot and macro though. No flame at all btw I love your log and been following since I started playing just wanted to hear your take on it
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hourly rate was never included in the logs, what kind of a hunting log / return % measurement would that be? :)

on bots vs hired shooters, same old argument
as mentioned, we never went more than like 10-12 hours per day on average which is feasible for a human to pull off
24/7 was practically the only sensible argument for those that were complaining about hired shooters (they were not chatting to ppl only relaying)
for me a hunting game run by bots is not a game I want to play
besides, there were people banned for botting in the past, which was very big loss for them. how is the acceptance of botting today treating them?
now that MA revenue stream largely depends om bots, it is suddenly acceptable?

on bots vs macros
sure the current implementation requires less interaction (mashing the F key) - but to run it 24/7 more creative solutions surely exist (which is closer to "bot") - reentering instance, relogging in case of connection loss, repair, tt visit come to mind
 
so if i read the updated first post right your down 10K assuming sales go good etc..

I am down at least 8K and have what 130K skill 145HP - maybe - and you are including money spent on gear land areas and paying shooters. and i never shoot above my level etc.. used unmaxed weps etc.. i would kill for 95+% returns on anything but lvl 0 12 hp mobs.

Sorry but you cannot say hours spent or paid for shooters should be counted because then my time would be say $45 per hour, My looses would be 100K. What about a doctor that plays as a hobby $100+ an hour?

I get where you are coming from but i think you cannot include your time or $ spent on shooters - hiring shooters means you were just trying to "work the system" for profit. Bots are cheaper :)

Really sucks how value was wrecked by MA but again paying 80K for armor or for anything in the game is your choice and a risk you should understand. i would not count that as part of the returns as MU is a player's choice to pay not a function of the game. MA perpetuates this problem in many ways i think. So yea sucks but this game is littered with players that got screwed on MU -recall when UL SIB weps first dropped - what's their value now almost $0 except maybe a few items. should have bought an original space ship MA paid them off nicely 90k ped if i recall and they paid waaaaaay less.

So i would say adding back the time factor, paying for shooters and drop in MU value you had a good run - yes lots of things really sucked for you and MA did you NO favors at all, but you are still positive - and believe me the last thing i want to do is say anything that makes the game look fair because it is not, if anything it is rigged to protect those that were given unfair advantages pre V10 for the most part and those that cheat :)

now the accountant in me is going to ask did you write any of the losses off as a business loss. If so you need to adjust for the tax savings - Belgium has a pretty high tax rate 40%+ i think :)

Not trying to bag on you - just different point of view from my side.
 
Yazuki said:
Does that mean the $4 an hour to hire shooters was included in the costs at the end of every month? Or was that kept separate?

Also just out of curiosity whats the difference between the two that you draw the line there. Both methods achieve the same goal but one of them is free right? Botting yourself versus paying someone to bot on your account. Unless we arent talking about having a macro F spam here and you're talking about actual bots. Seems like people interchangeably use the term bot and macro though. No flame at all btw I love your log and been following since I started playing just wanted to hear your take on it
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Anyone who uses the term bot when they mean macro or even F spam while watching movies can be safely ignored and their opinions disregarded.
 
I think a honest view on today's system.

A lot of the dynamics of the game went away with the more fair loot 2.0. So really chances of looting something wild or getting a big HOF appears to be quite low, making it very foreseeable that you're grinding away with little chances of hitting anything big.

Taking in to account how "lifeless" the combat gameplay is, there's no abilities to use or a need to fight, just click and press auto use button over and over again.

The excitement factor used to be the more dynamic loots, and even a noob could potentially loot a ML35 on a small atrax.

It just seems to be gone in 99% of the cases.
 
NoBion said:
I think a honest view on today's system.

A lot of the dynamics of the game went away with the more fair loot 2.0. So really chances of looting something wild or getting a big HOF appears to be quite low, making it very foreseeable that you're grinding away with little chances of hitting anything big.

Taking in to account how "lifeless" the combat gameplay is, there's no abilities to use or a need to fight, just click and press auto use button over and over again.

The excitement factor used to be the more dynamic loots, and even a noob could potentially loot a ML35 on a small atrax.

It just seems to be gone in 99% of the cases.
Click to expand...
You should check the Camo BGH drops from last summer on EL.
 
NoBion said:
I think a honest view on today's system.

A lot of the dynamics of the game went away with the more fair loot 2.0. So really chances of looting something wild or getting a big HOF appears to be quite low, making it very foreseeable that you're grinding away with little chances of hitting anything big.

Taking in to account how "lifeless" the combat gameplay is, there's no abilities to use or a need to fight, just click and press auto use button over and over again.

The excitement factor used to be the more dynamic loots, and even a noob could potentially loot a ML35 on a small atrax.

It just seems to be gone in 99% of the cases.
Click to expand...
Plenty of new players looted camo arms during summer migration off young/mature longtooth.

DrGirlfriend said:
Anyone who uses the term bot when they mean macro or even F spam while watching movies can be safely ignored and their opinions disregarded.
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DrGirlfriend said:
A bot will play literally 24/7, it will repair your gun, it will heal you effectively, it will buy more ammo and convert shrap, it will play the game for you completely.

A macro just fucking presses F. There is no comparison.
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So how do you decide who is a bot and who is macroing? You could run a setup that doesn't need to repair for several hours with enough lifesteal to never need heals and just set an alarm every time you need to repair to do it yourself. Is this all of a sudden 24/7 botting thats frowned upon?

My point is I think it's silly and hypocritical to say one is okay and the other isn't. You either agree that macros/bots are fine because MA is basically actively encouraging and wants people to do it because more cycle is more profit for them, or it isnt okay. You try to draw some arbitrary line where your level of macroing/automation is fine but any further is a nono
 
DrGirlfriend said:
A bot will play literally 24/7, it will repair your gun, it will heal you effectively, it will buy more ammo and convert shrap, it will play the game for you completely.
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this is exactly what I think is happening, as it is not that much of development, on top of the F mashing
In the end, you are what - "only 5% bot" which is pretty "macro" following the same logic
easiest and cheapest way to get to 24/7
 
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