Stamina the class divide

[Farmer Smurf]

what I would like to see is....

Someone prove that stamina does anything for the avatar, that its not just a pointless skill counter.

Maybe I am wearing tin foil here, but I cant see it does anything..and it damn sure doesn't do enough to justify the cost of even 1 iron mission.

 

[JohnCapital]

If I knew then what I know now....


...But I didn't.

 

[Mac]

If I knew then what I know now....


...But I didn't.

Which part?

 

[Strash]

all of it the deals oh the deals.....
aka prices were nice more then realized lol

 

[Aio]

what I would like to see is....

Someone prove that stamina does anything for the avatar, that its not just a pointless skill counter.

Maybe I am wearing tin foil here, but I cant see it does anything..and it damn sure doesn't do enough to justify the cost of even 1 iron mission.

It gives HP.

 

[Sidney]

There is Another divivide to: Those who wasn't able to take full advantage of "easy" (iron) missions to get stamina from them, for one reason or Another. For instance, being at a daytime job so not able to get the stamina Point at Rocktropia Before the nerf bat there. Those of us who missed the warning about the NI mission change so we missed the stamina Point there (I personally got halfways in that mission chain - I have two limbo misssions). Those of us who have to work 40 hours/week, and wasn't able to spend weeks on (then) poor spawns of fouls and merps to get stamina Points from that. (For other missions, those of us who didn't get a fast repairable weapon so we were able to grind off 500 aurli/kreltin; 1000 trox and whatnot for other attribute gains).

If I recall right, 1 stamina point has been removed from merp, argonaut and fouls, and possibly steelbirds (don't remember). And from most missions on Rocktropia and possibly Arkadia. For instance it doesn't seem like the army graduation mission (10000 zombies) give stamina.

Sure, some mobs got more stamina gains, for instance the reward from 5000 spiders is nice. But on the other hand, so far I haven't stumbled over any nice, fast (prefarably repairable) weapon that would take me through it in a timely fasion.

The extra stamina Points I've gotten is 9 from "oldtime", then +1 from sweat camp mission, +1 from eomon, and if I can keep my sanity lol (I shoot this upp all the time) from the remaining ~500 longtooth. But from there I can't see any additional stamina gain for me for a long time. (I haven't checked the missions on Cyrene though, if there is any mission there that's worth doing.)

[Sorry for misspeling/capitalization, it seems that there is a spellchequer in IE nowdays that Always defaults to wrong language lol]

I'm grateful that MA/FPC made the grace time longer and added additional spawns and I was able to get a few missions to a new level. But two weeks/mob didn't cut it if you have to be somewhere else more than 40 hours/week, be social at weekends and visit friedns/family a few weeks during the summer.

Oh, and I deposit on average probably 2000 ped/month, at least. And my best weapons are still (L) (unless you Count theoretically eco weapons like arkadia TT weapons.. but try those on the remaning stamina giving mobs if you like)

I have a fast repairable weapon for you that i have for sale.
Camo arm's urban stalker tiered.
Lets say tt+ 7k peds and its yours and i have a fi/ra/co amp lasers and scope to put on it as well.

Let me know if you want it ;-)

 

[remontoire]

I did the one easy Stamina mission for newbies on Calypso back in 2010 and got +1 Stamina. What is the other easy Stamina mission? I want to do it as well.

RT and/or NI had also easy stamina missions, both of which were removed fairly fast so only people who went there early got it. I didn't, so I missed out. Still, hey, 1-> 10 stamina and I will get more.

The missions rebalance removed the chance to get a lot of stamina. I would certainly not be getting a lot of stamina if I had started after it or had not completed mission chains.

 

[Roth]

I joined PE/EU in 2003, I had 9 stamina when I created my avatar.
It toke me several months to get some thousand in one weapon related skill, but after the changes
people got 1 in stamina, but I could skill up another, similar weapon related skill to same
point as the first one, in one weekend.
Some lost in attributes but won in skillgains progress.
If they change the staminas for those who did start with 1, it doesn't matter for my part thou'.

As Joat says in this quote. The stamina loss is nothing compared to when the skillsystem changed, It used to take loads of time, 6 months to a year would be my guess, to reach lvl30 in a hunting prostanding. Then MA decided to even out the odds so new players could catch up and suddenly you could reach lvl30 in a matter of weeks.
There were some upset players at the time.
Thats just how it is, things change.

 

[Pyhä Antero]

I'm just waiting for thread about how newcomers can't reach certain attributes levels that older players have. Sure, it was mistake to change anything in skill/attribute system, because at that very moment it became "unfair" to some group of players. But does it really have any effect on your gameplay? I would say no.

 

[Luckycharm]

I see these threads about the stamina issue every once in a while. Then go all the way and start about all the skills I say.

So many people that started to skill really early have over 10k points in single skills. That is without having skilled as much as most people today have. Not even remotely close to it. Avatars not used since 2005 etc. that have skills beyond what we can ever reach in any normal/affordable way. Just because they were here sooner than us.

Then don't just try to close the gap between just the 9 stamina and the 1 stamina starters. It's the only pro many of us have. Go for the time before professions were introduced to nerf all gains of skill. There you have the start of the discrimination if you can see it that way. This will never happen of course. Many of us with 300k skill would have around 500k in that case.

 

[Roth]

I see these threads about the stamina issue every once in a while. Then go all the way and start about all the skills I say.

So many people that started to skill really early have over 10k points in single skills. That is without having skilled as much as most people today have. Not even remotely close to it. Avatars not used since 2005 etc. that have skills beyond what we can ever reach in any normal/affordable way. Just because they were here sooner than us.

Then don't just try to close the gap between just the 9 stamina and the 1 stamina starters. It's the only pro many of us have. Go for the time before professions were introduced to nerf all gains of skill. There you have the start of the discrimination if you can see it that way. This will never happen of course. Many of us with 300k skill would have around 500k in that case.

Its the opposite, you gain skills much faster today then you did in the past

 

[Joat]

I see these threads about the stamina issue every once in a while. Then go all the way and start about all the skills I say.

So many people that started to skill really early have over 10k points in single skills. That is without having skilled as much as most people today have. Not even remotely close to it. Avatars not used since 2005 etc. that have skills beyond what we can ever reach in any normal/affordable way. Just because they were here sooner than us.

Then don't just try to close the gap between just the 9 stamina and the 1 stamina starters. It's the only pro many of us have. Go for the time before professions were introduced to nerf all gains of skill. There you have the start of the discrimination if you can see it that way. This will never happen of course. Many of us with 300k skill would have around 500k in that case.

Skillgain was slower, not faster. Then they changed so the higher points got even slower,
but under 3k was way easier. So we who started early had to first skill a shitload to get
up to 3-4k, and then be punished with slower skillgains higher up.

 

[Luckycharm]

Skillgain was slower, not faster. Then they changed so the higher points got even slower,
but under 3k was way easier. So we who started early had to first skill a shitload to get
up to 3-4k, and then be punished with slower skillgains higher up.

Its the opposite, you gain skills much faster today then you did in the past

So if that is true people must have shot WAY more with their MK.II's and opalo/a104 in 2-3 years than people have nowadays using all kind of big guns in like 7 years? Big (L) guns available everywhere now with decent stats and "Skill Increase Bonus" even which we did not used to have on the maddox IV, karma killers etcetera.

Wow! That's interesting. Are skillgains not the same for all avatars then? Because I really cannot see how using decent sized guns for years, killing lot of stuff can be so way inferior to what the ones did that are inactive since 2005 when we did not have this gear. On entropdia several put their skills with pride like most of us do or used to do. Plenty people that are known to have quit playing round that time. And you will see huge numbers on single skills.

No really. I speak of the high skillgains like you say, Joat, which you agree they made harder. Not just harder but actually kind of impossible. That is the real issue. Hence why I wrote 10k skill in rifle as example. Here it all started to really divide people.

So let's not just go on and on about the stamina every time with these threads but look for equalness for all things then, when it's about stuff from the skillwindow.

I get the impression now some people that started way before the nerf feel stepped on their toes instead of the ones that only just got the 9 stamina advantage...

 

[Svarog]

Skillgain was slower, not faster. Then they changed so the higher points got even slower,

In other words, it was faster

I remember the change somewhere after the 2007's new year (vu 8.8?) and I remember the outcry afterwards. By then I was half a year old and ~25 lvl in LS. Took me 2 years afterwards to get to 40. 7 years at the same pace later I'm LS 60. Where would I've been if my skill progress would be the same as in my first half a year? Way beyond the Commando, that's for sure.

But I'm content with what I have unless people start to appeal for partial revisions of the past.

 

[InDaHouse]

OMG I never started in the golden days when shadow, angel and Eon were TT food, but others did, this is now a disadvantage to me and I think MA should now give every other player and all new starting players a set of choice between Angel, Shadow or Eon.....

Get over yourself dude you started the game after us 9 stamina guys, face the fact, play the game and grind the mobs, but be grateful that MA even implemented these missions so you COULD gain stamina!

 

[Fifth]

It's like u give a little medal of gratitude to your old customers, and few years later u say OK, now we make everybody equal - and u hand out the same medal to every guy who walks in today. (Which is the same as taking it away).

Sorry, your medal of honor has expired, give it back.
C'mon, really?

Besides, u can still get the same STA, and more. It's still possible, and it doesn't even take years now. Just a question how badly you really want it. But u don't want it that bad, right? That's the problem.


IF MA would ever give up their position, THEN i would be worried.
I would start wondering, what will be devalued next?

Just forget it, let it be.
We're all stocked with nerfs here, no need for more.

 

[xaph]

Stamina is supposed to help everything. Yet there are two classes of players/avatars. Those created before 2009 starting with 9 Stamina points and those avatars created after 2009 starting with 1 Stamina point.
Cheers
Bjorn

I started in 2006-7, no I don't have those additional 8-9 points.
I played consistent over those years to 2012, mostly daily!
Figure that out!

 

[RobBuona]

Sorry, your medal of honor has expired, give it back.
C'mon, really?

Boy, "honor" sure is an interesting word to describe a group that has an unfair advantage.

 

[tyk]

who cares about stamina.. its not that big of an advantage.. my first ava had the stamina points.. but when i made the new ava it was little after they changed it.. agility flew from 1 to 20 very fast.. so even that didnt hurt much... and i dont even see why ppl value mission attributes over pure skills.. maybe it looks nice on skill scanner but otherwise quite useless

 

[aia]

who cares about stamina.. its not that big of an advantage.. my first ava had the stamina points.. but when i made the new ava it was little after they changed it.. agility flew from 1 to 20 very fast.. so even that didnt hurt much... and i dont even see why ppl value mission attributes over pure skills.. maybe it looks nice on skill scanner but otherwise quite useless

Why the fuzz about stamina: Because missions is only way to get it. It won't rise naturally.

Why chose attributes over skills: Probably a main reason: Once you get above say 5000 skill Points while getting 12 peds of some common skill (like rifle, handgun, lwt, anatomy) doesn't make that big difference anymore (maybe level 50.00 -> 50.05) and if you want 12 ped rifle you can pretty much chip it in whenever you want, while you can't chip in attributes. Attributes rise naturally over time though - but some attributes can be hard to skill.

And to magyar: Ah, I forgot about the SGA items. The SGA item I was most grateful about was pixie gloves, I became a bit desperate about it towards the end, but after a week of fuga grinding (on the islands at the coat between fort troy and eviscerator outpost) I managed to complete my set. I've got full sets of Kobold SGA, Pixie SGA and a FAP-18 SGA. Besides pixie gloves I also looted two Kobold (M) sga faceguards - it was looting those faceguards that made me start to look for it. (The rest of the SGA gear was from auction.)

Not that the difference Kobold SGA vs normal kobold is that big, but I remember the time a couple of years earlier when I bought kobold to survive at least two hits from thorifoid watchers, and kobold also worked well for feffs in spider crater. My original kobold I sold though soon after I got my ghost set. Originally I had planned to see my ghost as "universal uberarmor" (with uberarmor I ment a generally decent armor that still is affordable - after all the ghost was more or less an act of panic because I bought it part by part night before going on a teamhunt on CP), but I realized it didn't have any acid (so I kept my goblin), and Hunter was better for robots. (Also kept pixie, with its low TT it didn't tie up much PEDs.) Reason I collected two sets (pixie and kobold) was to keep likelihood up to at least get one complete set, and at the time when there was TP-runs and such, it was pretty nice to have a secretly higher-above set that looked like normal pixie. (To put the pixie types in a perspective, the adj pixie came after pixie sga, and adj pixie generally gives better protection than pixie sga.) When feffs got regen, it reduced the usefulness of Kobold quite a bit (someone who'd afford hunting them would probably also go a step up in armor and use ghost instead of kobold), pretty much like adj atrox reduced market for shogun armor.

 

[Joat]

In other words, it was faster

I remember the change somewhere after the 2007's new year (vu 8.8?) and I remember the outcry afterwards. By then I was half a year old and ~25 lvl in LS. Took me 2 years afterwards to get to 40. 7 years at the same pace later I'm LS 60. Where would I've been if my skill progress would be the same as in my first half a year? Way beyond the Commando, that's for sure.

But I'm content with what I have unless people start to appeal for partial revisions of the past.

So if that is true people must have shot WAY more with their MK.II's and opalo/a104 in 2-3 years than people have nowadays using all kind of big guns in like 7 years? Big (L) guns available everywhere now with decent stats and "Skill Increase Bonus" even which we did not used to have on the maddox IV, karma killers etcetera.

Wow! That's interesting. Are skillgains not the same for all avatars then? Because I really cannot see how using decent sized guns for years, killing lot of stuff can be so way inferior to what the ones did that are inactive since 2005 when we did not have this gear. On entropdia several put their skills with pride like most of us do or used to do. Plenty people that are known to have quit playing round that time. And you will see huge numbers on single skills.

No really. I speak of the high skillgains like you say, Joat, which you agree they made harder. Not just harder but actually kind of impossible. That is the real issue. Hence why I wrote 10k skill in rifle as example. Here it all started to really divide people.

So let's not just go on and on about the stamina every time with these threads but look for equalness for all things then, when it's about stuff from the skillwindow.

I get the impression now some people that started way before the nerf feel stepped on their toes instead of the ones that only just got the 9 stamina advantage...

What I gained in LWT in some months I gained equal numbers in GWT for a weekend,
when GWT-weapons became more accessible.
And I was really active at that time (Q3 2003 to 2009, less total activity per year since then).
It was faster for those few that had those higher numbers, but to have a skill
above 7k was seen as something extreme at that time, and close to 10k... well,
an impossible illusion, at least for us who started at 2003, maybe beta- and goldplayers
had it way better.
So yes, we all got harder at higher numbers, but we who started early also had
slow progress at lower numbers, at least for us who actually played the game.
There are some Ubers that are still active now (and some who quit early) that cheated
a shitload with ac's and other crap, and MA didn't do shit about it, except doing skillgain
harder for us who didn't have high numbers.

Not sure what to do actually, since PE was a totaly different game at that time.
Sure we had a bunch of annoying bugs, but if we look at game without those,
we had mobs that did max damage in every hit, we had no SIB, access to good
equipment was very low and so on. Some annoying myths that uberitems
dropped to left and right still excist, I and all those who I knew sure as hell
didn't get anything decent.
One example, a Atrox old alpha always did a damage of 160 (or if it was 165) in
every hit. Change back to that and it will be a riot among players.

Maybe easiest solution is to increase stamina for those who started with 1...

 

[InDaHouse]

Boy, "honor" sure is an interesting word to describe a group that has an unfair advantage.

what is unfair about it?

Why don't we whine about the ones with ADJ/MOD/IMP that had them increased to Ancient ADJ/MOD/IMP items.....

Or the ones that started when EU first went live that saved every bit of shadow, angel, eon, sent, mod merc, imp Mk.II or III or all the other nice items they stocked up on.

Its a fact of life, just get over it and deal with it.

 

[Aio]

One example, a Atrox old alpha always did a damage of 160 (or if it was 165) in
every hit. Change back to that and it will be a riot among players.

Maybe easiest solution is to increase stamina for those who started with 1...

One of the biggest reasons why mobs are so much easier now. Yes, crit's are annoying but they happen so rarely compared to old-school mobs pounding you with maxdmg every hit.

 

[aia]

Why don't we whine about the ones with ADJ/MOD/IMP that had them increased to Ancient ADJ/MOD/IMP items.....

I don't know for how long time it was like that, but players who had "pregold" items had a choice; not repair (practically not use) the item and keep the "pregold" status, or repair (use) them and lose the status. Before the status changed from "pregold" to "ancient" (which "locked" the status) I guess some ancient weapons were "lost" (ie changed to normal ones).

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

I don't know for how long time it was like that, but players who had "pregold" items had a choice; not repair (practically not use) the item and keep the "pregold" status, or repair (use) them and lose the status. Before the status changed from "pregold" to "ancient" (which "locked" the status) I guess some ancient weapons were "lost" (ie changed to normal ones).

How interesting! I never knew about this!

 

[aia]

One example, a Atrox old alpha always did a damage of 160 (or if it was 165) in
every hit. Change back to that and it will be a riot among players.

But there still was evade, right?

At the time this happened (I think it was announced as "mobs has gone through a boot camp"), at least right after I think maturities in the spawns were adjusted, pretty much upped one notch on average.

Maybe it was at that time we got feffs bigger than berserkers (someone once said to me they were the biggest at the time), atrox stalkers/prowlers (above old alpha), and such.

(Later on came the regen on atrox - and feffs -, but that's a different story.)

 

[RobBuona]

what is unfair about it?

Why don't we whine about the ones with ADJ/MOD/IMP that had them increased to Ancient ADJ/MOD/IMP items.....

Or the ones that started when EU first went live that saved every bit of shadow, angel, eon, sent, mod merc, imp Mk.II or III or all the other nice items they stocked up on.

Its a fact of life, just get over it and deal with it.

Of course, how could I have been so stupid?! Clearly, when there is injustice, everyone should just "deal with it" and never be opposed. That way, we never have to have silly debates. And the injustices also never get fixed, but who cares about that? I don't know what I was thinking.

 

[Aio]

But there still was evade, right?

At the time this happened (I think it was announced as "mobs has gone through a boot camp"), at least right after I think maturities in the spawns were adjusted, pretty much upped one notch on average.

Maybe it was at that time we got feffs bigger than berserkers (someone once said to me they were the biggest at the time), atrox stalkers/prowlers (above old alpha), and such.

(Later on came the regen on atrox - and feffs -, but that's a different story.)

Trox Stalkers existed for ages. Feffoids / Maffoids etc had different sub-names, they were never as powerful as the current big ones (clan warlord) but nearly every mob has had a hp boost.

I don't know for how long time it was like that, but players who had "pregold" items had a choice; not repair (practically not use) the item and keep the "pregold" status, or repair (use) them and lose the status. Before the status changed from "pregold" to "ancient" (which "locked" the status) I guess some ancient weapons were "lost" (ie changed to normal ones).

There was never a "pregold status". Items kept post gold had better stats, which they lost on the first repair after gold. MindArk IIRC did not announce this - and I would guesstimate 90% of the items pregold were repaired and lost this way. Usually any item being regularly used would be repaired aswell. Noteable exceptions were the ancient a104 amp (no decay, never needed to be repaired), a bunch of l2000 lasers (again, no decay). Additionally there were the guns which sat in dormant accounts until MA announced the Ancient status.

Remember that between Gold and Ancient there were 3 years, and no MA announcement on Ancient status, so again, it wasn't just luck that these items exist, it could be achieveable by a bit of foresight. Just as something now could be viewed as an achievement in 3 years. Who know where the game will be at in 2016 - maybe your worthless item now is worth quite a bit more in a few years - even if the economy just tracks the global economy and modfaps are once again worth 300k )

 

[Vedder]

Every single VU changes a lot of things.
Every change means that some are better off than before, while others are the opposite.

So... We should go back, track all changes ever done in Entropia, and have MA compensate all of us, for everything we were cheated for.


Hmm... Or maybe not.



PS. I want all those peds back, I wasted hunting before weapons with less than level 100 req. were introduced! It's just NO FAIR!

 

[Aio]

Of course, how could I have been so stupid?! Clearly, when there is injustice, everyone should just "deal with it" and never be opposed. That way, we never have to have silly debates. And the injustices also never get fixed, but who cares about that? I don't know what I was thinking.

I'm ever so sorry time machines do not exist. But pray tell, exactly what was stopping you playing PE in 2001, 2002 and obtaining these items? It's not exactly an injustice just because you didn't play then.

That's like me saying it's an absolute disgrace that I don't own any original da vinci's - I didn't get the chance to buy them in 1400!!