Weapon calculator

[aridash]

AT LAST, a chart that accounts for minimum dmg for Economy. Im tired of discussions about whats the most economical weapon which fail to take account that with newb skills that most people have. I am not going to get 4.75Dmg/pec with a ImpMKII, because im going to miss alot and get lower average damage.

 

[mrproper]

I've been thinking about how to implement overkill for some time but haven't had a good enough idea yet.

I wouldnt add overkill to actual ECO values since overkill depends on creatures HP (I think overkill with 2k health creature is pretty meaningless compared with 50hp creature). ECO is damage/second based while possible overkill value would have to be dmg/shot based (this would mean more calculations and complexity ).
Also creature might not be selected in the tool which would mean there is no 'target' HP available to calculations.

All experienced hunters know about overkill and tool does show total cost per shot (= maximum amount of overkill).

One possible idea to implement overkill would be adding a extra column into creature costs. for example:
creature hp=50, weapon X has avg.dmg/shot=20 and cost per shot=10.
Killing creature with weapon X would result in 2.5 shots on average which would leave 5pec overkill potential .

WEAPON Y with same creature but avg.dmg/shot=40 and cost per shot=20 would show overkill potential 15pec.

I'm not sure this value would help out in estimating overkill?

Exactly. And final eco is total cost/mob HP.

Total cost includes health regen and overkill. Mob HP gives out average loot.

 

[Gargamel]

make new versions with more coll stuffs

will do my best

 

[mrproper]

Example to test:

Sollomate Opalo > Snablesnot-Male young

Wich amp is better? A101, A102, A103, A104, no amp ???

Test that with the new overkill settings and reply back

I get this with the maxxed, no miss opalo:

2.97 eco - no amp
3.09 eco - A101
3.18 eco - A102
3.24 eco - A103
3.26 eco - A104

And then we can move to berycleds, atrox and some other nice mobs with some real nice guns to hunt them with.

There is also a nice feature implemented, it's called CRITICALS, maxxed HA weapons should have a 3% critical chance each shot, with 300% the average damage. That slowly adds up to 10% more eco.

 

[Gargamel]

Exactly. And final eco is total cost/mob HP.

Total cost includes health regen and overkill. Mob HP gives out average loot.

Ok,this might work.
I'll add mobECO (average overkill+average cost to kill creature) value in one of the future versions, it will be added as a column to the creature values and will show cost/hp for selected creature.
It's comparison value will be low if hunter uses cheap weapon to finish, but it might give indication of which weapon to use for which creature if it works in practise. We'll see once I get it in

 

[mrproper]

Ok, that may be confusing, how about this approach:

Inflicted damage: Mob HP + Mob regen + overkill
Theoretical damage: Mob HP

Final eco: Costs * Inflicted damage / Mob HP

 

[Gargamel]

Ok, that may be confusing, how about this approach:

Inflicted damage: Mob HP + Mob regen + overkill
Theoretical damage: Mob HP

Final eco: Costs * Inflicted damage / Mob HP

that formula should work and makes it more simple. I'll put it in the next version which should be ready sometime next week (if I just have enough time on my hands .

criticals are coming too at some point. I'll do them with same system as current miss% which allows the % range to be changed. Not sure if this is in the next version but it'll come at some point.

 

[Gargamel]

Another day, another update.
V1.2 contains some long awaited features:
- critical hits are now supported
- there is economy value for mobs which accounts for overkill.

Please let me know if you find errors in calculations/other kinda bugs. I tried to test it as much as I could, but the changes are quite extensive and I suspect that there might still be some bugs lurking around

 

[mrproper]

Example to test:

Sollomate Opalo > Snablesnot-Male young
I get this with the maxxed, no miss opalo:

2.97 eco - no amp
3.09 eco - A101
3.18 eco - A102
3.24 eco - A103
3.26 eco - A104

Update

2.90 eco - no amp
MOBECO 0.50

3.01 eco - A101
MOBECO 0.40

3.10 eco - A102
MOBECO 0.53

3.16 eco - A103
MOBECO 0.69

3.18 eco - A104
MOBECO 0.51

This means the best way to kill Snable younglings is with an A101 amp. And then you still throw away 30% of the loot.

And of course if you look at the numbers, no skills will get you 50-60% of the normal loot. Nice work... except the mob eco thing, could you convert it to normal eco hp/pec?

Nice to see you can kill a spider with the opalo in 2350000 seconds

 

[Gargamel]

Nice work... except the mob eco thing, could you convert it to normal eco hp/pec?

Changed it. It's now startingHP/total PEC cost with regen and overkill.

Nice to see you can kill a spider with the opalo in 2350000 seconds

That value might be optimistic
If creatures regen outdoes weapons average damage output, tool wont use negative or zero values (cause this made a mess of some calculations, I'll look into it at some point) but uses 0.001 dmg/s instead. Some of those big values mean eternity

Next I would like to hear some views on amount of criticals and misses on various skill levels. Does everyone feel default values on those are at the correct level?

 

[buschi]

wow, wow wow! Gratz mate! What a fu*%& great tool!

My disciples always asked me, how economic it is, to kill with a specific weapon a specific mob. And as a mentor, my answer was always "erhmmm...oh, have you ever saw such a stunning sunset?"

But thanks to you mate! Now i can say: "My son, please have a look at http://weapcalc.ogre-online.com/ . and may the force be with you".

 

[mrproper]

Update

2.90 eco - no amp
MOBECO 0.50

3.01 eco - A101
MOBECO 0.40

3.10 eco - A102
MOBECO 0.53

3.16 eco - A103
MOBECO 0.69

3.18 eco - A104
MOBECO 0.51

This means the best way to kill Snable younglings is with an A101 amp. And then you still throw away 30% of the loot.

Let's retry that Opalo on Snable younglings with 10/10 HA

unamped - 2.83

A101 - 3.00

A102 - 2.26

A103 - 2.88

A104 - 2.64

So the best way to get them is with the A101 or A103 for some faster action.

Warning: Different skill levels give different mob eco levels with different weapon setups. This is the dynamism featured in EU.

Great work again Gargamel.

 

[Gargamel]

I updated the weapons data since some speeds had changed.

Furthermore, the start value for 'Hit ability' has been raised from 0.0 to 3.0, for users that have reached the minimum skill level requirement. The subsequent increase curve has been adjusted to accommodate this change.

Does this mean that 3.0 HA is achieved quicker on all weapons and subsequent raise is slower?
Do I need to change something in the tool ?

 

[Doer]

I updated the weapons data since some speeds had changed.



Does this mean that 3.0 HA is achieved quicker on all weapons and subsequent raise is slower?
Do I need to change something in the tool ?

Hi Gargamel

Nice job with the tool. To answer your question, only the SLB (skill learning bonus) weapons start at HA 3.0, and only when the player is skilled enough to get the bonus. That means all the limited weapons and the tt weapons. I don't think it will require changes.

A couple things i noticed when trying out your tool: critical hits are for 2x the damage of a normal hit--it seems you are counting them as 3x. Mobs regen every ~12 seconds, at least the mobs i've checked. I'm afraid i can't tell you how much but i'm guessing maybe 5% because they seem to have regenerated faster than me when i get crit'ed and run back.

Also, it would be nice to see the economy excluding overkill. It would be more useful that way for the 99% of people who've figured out that overkill is bad. If you need to figure out what to do with the remainder damage, treat it as if it were done by a weapon with 3.0 average eco--most finishers are tt weapons with around that--and very low damage. That would be the most useful figure of all, the one that takes into account using the selected weapon for the integral damage, and the remainder with a small finisher.

Great work!

 

[mrproper]

Dear Gargamel,

I am a happy user of your system. All my previous systems are useless as your system's realism and flexibility allows me to select the best gear for each mob and maturity. By doing so, I even received better results overall compared to what the mob eco said.

thank you,
mrproper

 

[Gargamel]

I don't think it will require changes.

That's good news, implementing curves would have been bit tricky with my math talents

2x the damage of a normal hit--it seems you are counting them as 3x. Mobs regen every ~12 seconds, at least the mobs i've checked. I'm afraid i can't tell you how much but i'm guessing maybe 5% because they seem to have regenerated faster than me when i get crit'ed and run back.

I'll change these to 2x and 12s. I'll propably add a way for users to control these in some version.

Also, it would be nice to see the economy excluding overkill. It would be more useful that way for the 99% of people who've figured out that overkill is bad. If you need to figure out what to do with the remainder damage, treat it as if it were done by a weapon with 3.0 average eco--most finishers are tt weapons with around that--and very low damage. That would be the most useful figure of all, the one that takes into account using the selected weapon for the integral damage, and the remainder with a small finisher.

Overkill switch has been requested before and it should be up soon.
Currently it just leaves overkill effects out of mobeco and instead uses cost/second * killtime instead of counting cost of total shots.
I'll look into ways to simulate 3.0 eco weapon finishing in the upcoming versions.

I am a happy user of your system

It's nice to know that my tool has helped you

 

[Gargamel]

another update is up.

Most imporant upgrade is second MOBECO column that tries (very hard ) to simulate effects of finishing with 3.0 eco weapon.
Some other minor tweaks changed some eco values.

Let me know if you find something broken.

 

[Gargamel]

version 1.31 is up.
Updated fresh weapons and amp data and couple of other small new features.
Hopefully all new weapon speeds are now in.

 

[mrproper]

version 1.31 is up.
Updated fresh weapons and amp data and couple of other small new features.
Hopefully all new weapon speeds are now in.

Can I request another interesting feature? Basically it should be named Mob Eco Gain and it should be equal to the eco difference between mob eco and 3, multiplied by the mob value.

Call it gain and still show plenty of - (minus) as mob eco is usually under 3

 

[Gargamel]

Can I request another interesting feature? Basically it should be named Mob Eco Gain and it should be equal to the eco difference between mob eco and 3, multiplied by the mob value.

With mob value you mean health?
for example MOB eco value of 1.43 on 450hp would give -706,5 ?
What would that number tell?

 

[mrproper]

With mob value you mean health?
for example MOB eco value of 1.43 on 450hp would give -706,5 ?
What would that number tell?

I am tired and unable to write a formula....

Standard equality return economy value for dmg/pec is 3.

Using a weapon on a mob can give more or less (less more and more less).

By calculating the difference between the mob value (as loot return correlated to it's HP) and the cost to kill, you get a pec difference. If you have a 3+ eco weapon, you should receive that difference. if you have a less than 3 eco on that weapon, you will loose that difference evey mob. So it will basically tell you how much you loose for each mob and you could consider some other mob or different setup. You currently get the cost to kill / mob value.

 

[Gargamel]

By calculating the difference between the mob value (as loot return correlated to it's HP) and the cost to kill, you get a pec difference. If you have a 3+ eco weapon, you should receive that difference. if you have a less than 3 eco on that weapon, you will loose that difference evey mob. So it will basically tell you how much you loose for each mob and you could consider some other mob or different setup. You currently get the cost to kill / mob value.

Ok, I think I understood you now.
example:
mob HP=300(with regen)
cost to kill with weapon X and skills X is 1.5ped
300/3=100pec, so GAIN would be -50pec

I'll add this into next version.

 

[mrproper]

Ok, I think I understood you now.
example:
mob HP=300(with regen)
cost to kill with weapon X and skills X is 1.5ped
300/3=100pec, so GAIN would be -50pec

I'll add this into next version.

hmm.... that minus looks a bit dissapointing...

happy coding!

 

[Gargamel]

happy coding!

Coding was as happy as ever

Tool is updated once again.

GAIN value added along with miscellaneous small tweaks.

 

[mrproper]

Posting link so I can find the site faster (you too, the reader of this post)

http://weapcalc.ogre-online.com/
Entropia Weapon Tool 1.32

Great addition, makes it even easier than ever to choose a setup, when the second best alternative looses more than twice your peddies...

You could also add another digit to the gain value since all my setups show -0.02 PED but the eco varies.

Now you need some nice graphics and a little guide on examples of use. There would be something else you could do to finish the system, but it's too crazy

 

[Gargamel]

Now you need some nice graphics and a little guide on examples of use. There would be something else you could do to finish the system, but it's too crazy

I still got quite long 'missing features' list for the tool...if only I had more time to add them quicker
I added extra digit to my todo list, writing more extensive help was already on it.

 

[Gargamel]

Version 1.4 is up.
Some long awaited interface improvement requests are now done.

 

[Gargamel]

Added armor effectiveness chart to the tool.

 

[Gargamel]

New upgrade, contents are here

I'd like to hear some comments on armor efficiency chart. How to improve it in order to make it more useful (or just scrap it?).

 

[steffel]

as for the armor charts...i dont really agree on "ghost has better fit on exa stalker than plated pixie". well ok i take 10 more dmg in pixie but mobs die so fast that this doesnt matter (to me). i say, the armor efficiency is dependend from the weapon you use on a mob.

maybe you can code something like: best armor/weapon combination for given mobs? or at least armor calculations dependend of weapon (time to tank mob -> chewing on armor -> average decay per mob), i think you get other results for the fit then...