Question: What does hunting economically do?

[Nightmare069]

I've tried hunting eco, i've tried hunting uneco... the only difference I saw was that i felt like a dumbass after hunting very uneco and having a huge loss. So, obviously I tried to avoid that

I recently bought a Adjusted Embra Laser Sword C1 (almost $500) to give "eco" another shot

i used the whole sword on drones and came out with 237 ped loss, but i gained 4500 skills... (was pretty uneco as 100 ped went to repairs of my vigi+6a since i had little dodge)

Now I am wearing Pixie+2A and hunting Argonaut with the Embra and a Opalo tagger/finisher... so far loot is STILL horrible.

So eco DOES exist... but how does it (if at all) affect your loot?
---Does it increase your profit? (less cost = higher return)
---Does it decrease your profit? (low PED expendature = low PED return)
---Does it have ANYTHING to do with your loot at all?

Of course I am only asking for personal experiences.

 

[XeroX2]

Eco reduces cost/kill thus you can get a few more kills/run and hope that one of them has a nice loot. However it doesn`t seem to help to improve my returns.

 

[Sircus]

well imo "today" ecco means more kills per peds spent but also that your loot is in a lower intervall.

More peds per click = higher intervall.

MA already said that adding unecco scopes and lasers improve loot if I understood their statement right.

Ecco today is imo saving MU each run on your gear, not the ecco of the gear. Combine this with the right mob and you profit automatically in the long run ^^

 

[Coop_]

UL Embra is decent eco for blades, but still falls ~4% below a p4a+a104 combo.

So I'd expect that those using p4a+a104 will (on average over tons and tons of hunts) get 4% more loot than those using the embra.

For a given run, you still need to get the lucky hits to break even or profit, and having a 4% higher chance to get that lucky hit, while not bad, won't make a huge difference in the number of good runs you have.

 

[Nightmare069]

Believe it or not, I think this poll can actually provide us info XD

 

[c0m4ndo45]

Well, i don't think this has any relationship with my loot but...

I used to hunt argo young with M2a/A102 and pixie and never got a global, tried for very long.. hundreds of them... days hunting...

Months later i came back with Riker UL2/A102 and got 2 globals in 2 days hunting.

IMHO it was just pure luck or good day for hunting and not the change to a weapon which costs more ammo/decay. The return is the same so far except for the 2 exceptional runs with globals.

 

[AtamiKiangola]

It makes me spend less, so I have the chance to profit sooner

It is a "relative" excercise though, if all people hunt eco then the "eco limit" will be dynamically impacted and the effect will be lower. So I sincerely hope a lot of people hunt non-eco and they should believe it doesnt make a difference.



Atami

 

[mastermesh]

So I'd expect that those using p4a+a104 will (on average over tons and tons of hunts) get 4% more loot than those using the embra.

and roughly 80% less evade too I bet, lol.

 

[JingyiDai]

eco is just something folks made up , it does work but only for the lucky ones , same like ATH

wake up now

I tried what you did, recorded it and had a post more than one year ago

You can put tons evades in or dodges

But it wont work wel. Because if it really works-> you better hunt snables or other tiny mobs

The ones you can kill before they ever reach you. That is most "eco"

Need much less peds to rotate .

You can kill a foul very easy with an opalo , without A101... or with it

But loot will still sux , why do you think so much folks cash out, and the MV of those unl SIB gear is so low

 

[Nightmare069]

But loot will still sux , why do you think so much folks cash out, and the MV of those unl SIB gear is so low

Because we are in a depression and everybody is broke

I'm not complaining though... fact of life, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer :\

 

[ermik]

There are 2 things to consider.

1. Your cost to kill the mob

2. The loot the mob give back.

Lets start with 1. Your cost to kill the mob.

It can be broken down into 2 parts , what you spend in tt and what you spend on markup , the difference between these 2 are that tt spent goes into the system and mu spent goes to another player in some way.
On the cost to kill the mob side , you also must consider armor and fap decay, the only part im almost sure we dont get any compensation for in the long run, a good accepted number is to try and keep you defense cost (armor+decay) below 5% of total kill cost , meaning if you cycle 100 ped on a mob , armor and fap decay should not be higher that 5 ped.

Eco in this case means you spend less peds on each mob , giving you an oportunity to kill more mobs with the same peds invested , thus giving more skills and also increasing the chance of a lucky hof.

Now lets move to the other side of the fence , to the place where we cant affect anything , or control anything , as the ONLY thing we can control is , what mob we hunt , and how much we spend on killing them.

2. Loot we get back from the mob.

Huge long term researchers have come to the conclusion that over time , system will pay back 85-90% of spent tt (could also be a combined result of tt spent and hp killed in some way) on hunting, this means that no matter what we do , we will never win vs the house.

So if i choose to hunt trox , and cycle 10.000 peds on them , i will most likely get back 8500 , not counting in if i get lucky and get a payback in advance.

This means , that from those 8500 ped i get back , i must sell loot to cover up the missing 15% to reach break even, this is quite hard , since trox dont really drop stuff with good markup , this as a direct result of many people hunting them thus making the market flooded with loot from them.

Another thing to consider is that the more hp the mob have , the more peds is needed to cycle on them before seeing this magic 85% return rate.

Avatars also have some sort of biorythm , making some specific times better and some other worse , but in the long run tt return will always fall back to 85% or close.

There must be more components we have not yet figured out , wich controls how loot in distributed , but if you follow the basic rules , you should come out with a small loss , or maybe even break even.

I have not been following my own advice , making my losses in eu huge ( by my own standards ) but im trying but im just to impatient

This also means that using anything but the best gear avaliable to your ped card / skill level means you are behind others , in the hunt for shiny peds and glory

cheers

ermik

 

[Nightmare069]

not bad, those are some good figures.

 

[Naithen]

Selected mobs +Time of loot released + # of hunters hunting that area = determination of your return. Or another way to say it is "guess" the area thats hot, get there early enough so you claim the best items and then move on to the next sight.Best eco = being a good guesser and or following patterns and getting lucky.

 

[Nightmare069]

Thought I would get more votes than this :\

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

Well, i don't think this has any relationship with my loot but...

I used to hunt argo young with M2a/A102 and pixie and never got a global, tried for very long.. hundreds of them... days hunting...

Months later i came back with Riker UL2/A102 and got 2 globals in 2 days hunting.

IMHO it was just pure luck or good day for hunting and not the change to a weapon which costs more ammo/decay. The return is the same so far except for the 2 exceptional runs with globals.

You are not talking about the eco the OP refers to. It's another type of eco, related to Damage/pec. You can be eco even with something that burns more ammo (/decays more) than Riker UL2/A102 .

 

[Karmic]

Being more eco than you simply means I can spend less to kill the same number of mob A than you can. Adj embra isn't extremely eco on those mobs and it depends on style as well, someone using the same gear as you do with less wasted shots(swings) and better evade/dodge can be more "eco". In any case, you can't really tell what works for you until you've recorded many, many runs and compared them. Even the MIT blackjack team who had a slight advantage over the casino had many losing trips.

Being effectively eco is taking a slight advantage over your fellows and pushing it over the long term. Short term globals and HoF's or runs without any mini+ loots will skew your perspective unless you're tracking it quite closely. Things also change over time with the markup of different weapons and loots on different mobs so it's not as easy as saying, use a p5a+104 and you'll do fine. But, I've been able to do quite well for a couple years in game now so I have to think it's more than just a little luck

 

[Immortal]

A common misconception is that eco means "scrimping". Eco also does not mean "I will get significantly better loot due to some magic reason"

Eco means "in the next 100kped of hunting, I can expect to be 5kped ahead of where I would be by choosing a hunting setup that suits me, if I do everything exactly the same"

This might mean:
using non-(L) instead of (L)
using a correct fap
using appropriate armor
using a suitable weapon
hunting a mob that does not eat your armor faster than your pedcard is replenished

If your economic plan for success relies upon you getting a big hof to make up for the losses, you are doing it wrong.

 

[M Rufen Power]

If your economic plan for success relies upon you getting a big hof to make up for the losses, you are doing it wrong.

Wow that is a profound statement & something I will keep with me. Thx

 

[Zacariaz]

What usually works, for me at least, is to find the right place and wait. That is choose a mob and a set up ad stick to it. It won't guarantee you profit or even that you'll brake even, but the big one usually comes at some point to even things out.

 

[GoNi]

Hunting Eco reduces your cost, so you can hunt longer at the same PED spent.

TT returns are always around 80-90% of what you spent (on the long run!), so it doesn´t improve your return at all.
Profit comes only from markups and the rar really UBER loots (10kish+).
The comon UBER 1k+, often helps for break even for a longer period, but doesn´t mean profit on the long run at all!

So thing that eco does is lower your cost/hour played, nothing more!

 

[jjmatrix]

I started thinking on how to best formulate a meaningful answer, and the I came upon this post:

Hunting Eco reduces your cost, so you can hunt longer at the same PED spent.

TT returns are always around 80-90% of what you spent (on the long run!), so it doesn´t improve your return at all.
Profit comes only from markups and the rar really UBER loots (10kish+).
The comon UBER 1k+, often helps for break even for a longer period, but doesn´t mean profit on the long run at all!

So thing that eco does is lower your cost/hour played, nothing more!

I'd have nothing else to add: +Rep.

 

[Nightmare069]

It's funny, I use the whole Embra sword again on argos. I had 1 global... yes, 1 global using a whole Embra sword on argos. Low maturity, pixie+2A, only healed like 2-3 times the WHOLE time. I maybe had 70-75% return.

I get a wild hair up my ass and go hunt Frescoquda Youngs with 270 PED (1800 shots), Ghost+5B, LR41+A103, and FAP-2350... yes a very uneco hunt... well i broke even after 2 global and quit early. I am almost at the point where I say fuck it and just play without thinking AT ALL.

These hunts support the loot = amount of PED pumped into hunt theory.

 

[Coop_]

These hunts support the loot = amount of PED pumped into hunt theory.

Howso? Not sure how you get from "below-average hunting on argos then a small above-average hunt on fresco" to "loot out = ped in."

 

[davidgr1200]

Other people have shown that if you hunt "uneconomically" (for example just shooting into the air, or using a weapon that is overkill for the particular mob) you will get more loot than if you hunt economically. However, the extra loot you get does not seem to be sufficient to cover the extra expense (ignoring skills of course).

For example. If you hunt atrox economically and use 1000 PED ammo you may kill 150 and get 800 PED loot. If you hunt those same 150 Atrox uneconomically you may get 1000 PED loot, but it may cost 1250 PED.

SO yes, you get more loot, but it will cost you more.

 

[Kristoliquid]

I got to be the most anti-eco guy in EU and as a straight answer is...

there are good hunts and bad hunts. thats all.

dont try to go Around the system in your head because in the end its gonna come down to the same thing. some hunts are good and some are bad.. its like that.

My returns are WAYYYY better when i am not eco. in general.

 

[Nightmare069]

I got to be the most anti-eco guy in EU and as a straight answer is...

there are good hunts and bad hunts. thats all.

dont try to go Around the system in your head because in the end its gonna come down to the same thing. some hunts are good and some are bad.. its like that.

My returns are WAYYYY better when i am not eco. in general.

I think we have winner

Oh, and i did a LR41 hunt on argos.... 270 ped ammo, ghost+5b, opalo finisher.... 3 globals and 200 PED profit

f*ck hunting economically. I'm just going to hunt :\

 

[Thorn]

Hunting eco saves PED. More or less depending on how and what you hunt. In most cases though where I see people preaching it it is saving them fractions of pennies so I see all that passion about it as misplaced.

I try to focus more on fun. But it`s always good to keep being eco in mind to some degree. If your a big budget hunter then you`ll see better savings but noob hunters and mid level will see marginal results unless they get way uneco. But to preach to a new player about the difference between say an opalo or a jester d1 is like shaving copper off a penny. Eco is something important to be aware of to do when necessary but kind of silly on the low end. I think in the end whether you get good loot or not is way more important. Because if your loot sucks it does`nt matter how eco you are you still lose your ass. And if you get great loot you won`t even notice a few missing pec.

Eco is more about the long haul. What it adds up to over years. But I think crunching too many numbers and fretting over it constantly takes much of the fun out of hunting. It`s all how you want to play and what you hope to get out of it. These days it does`nt matter how eco I play it still costs alot to play. So whether I`m hunting leviathan solo with an unlimited gun or snable with a cb5 it`s all in what my budget can accomodate or what I feel like doing eco be damned.

 

[kalanen]

Eco propably has big impact for those who do "runs" like buy ammo, go where mobs are, shoot non stop until there's no ammo. Great game. This clip is clool tho!

[YOUTUBE]wJ40w8ZY-9w[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Nightmare069]

Eco propably has big impact for those who do "runs" like buy ammo, go where mobs are, shoot non stop until there's no ammo. Great game. This clip is clool tho!

[YOUTUBE]wJ40w8ZY-9w[/YOUTUBE]

lmao .... i dont get it

 

[3-J]

what you get out is directly related to what you put in, this is obvious when you use an amp... or not. you can obviously see the difference in loot *for each kill* when you use an amp or not, because of the amp decay you get more loot per kill, with the same % returns in the end adding in amp decay. people who don't think so obviously don't look at their ammo loot numbers.

therefor, if you hunt uneco you will get the same return as if you were hunting eco... just more ped lost in different ways like decay for one or the other.

of course there is a line there, you can't go out with 0 skills and use the biggest gun and expect the same returns. the skill barrier is what makes the game not gambling, once you cross that barrier for each weapon/item you should almost always get the same returns.


cheers