Many many ppl leaving, I tink sometihng should be done

well the current system obviously isn't working, it pays the bills sure and people will always play and pay sure. but its full potential will never be reached, or even come close when it costs $1000s per player. i'd say a vast majority of players have a grudge against the costs to play. its too bad that any big much needed change to the game would cause the current players another large loss, however it would benefit the game for the long term tremendously. no one will like this but the loss of 10000 is worth the potential gain of 100000+ (or 15mil to compare to WoW)

I guess the small time players took the advice of those who were happy with the current system and quit. Problem is all those small players deposits add up so now the mid range players are paying.

Nothing will change as MA are fearful of crashing the economy and people withdrawing en masse which they can't cover any more as they spent the cash on the CE2 development.

~CHOPPER~ said:

Fanbois are just as loud,
and the "whiners" as you incorrectly label them, are by no means the biggest problem with player retention.

...

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I didn't say they are, now did I?

And what is incorrect with that labeling? They whine. "Those who complain" fits you better?

Also comical you mention my labeling of whiners, seeing you rather frequently throwing the fanboi stamp around you.

Carlito said:

eu has roughly 10000 active globaling players... i'd roughly guess *avg* depo for those is $200/mo, = $2mil
WoW has roughly 1mil active subscribers... $15/mo = $15mil

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How long do I have to go without a global to drop out of that 10K? Because I can probably kill 6K merps, 13K foul and 15K young over the next several months completing iron missions and not get a single global while hunting, mining and crafting for 4+ hours a day...

Oh, and of course, I have never deposited $200 in a month. It would take several "investments" to get me to such a level of expenditure in a month. But maybe we are talking about different meanings of active here?

Unearth said:

Hello guys,

I'm part of a nice and big soc. but something is happening in it and inside EU aswell.
Many many ppl leaving and MA will have to do something about it.

In the last mounth, 3 of my clannies left becose they cannot afford to play EU.
If you look at the trading section, really many ppl selling out, skills, anything.
Most common reason is: " I cannot afford to play EU anymore".

Now, I guess this post is useless but I just want to express myself.
It's time to do something about it. Increase the loot, make something cheaper, don't try to take all from us.
It's a pain like this.

It's a pain to see friends quitting.

I know many ppl cant wait to write: You're free to go if you don't like something.
Here's the fact: many ppl are doing this.

Peace.

Click to expand...

Well people leave people come!

Skills at market don´t say that people are leaving, for some people skilling out is just to get some PED, and do that regularly!
Selling of high end gear is nothing new, too.
Since I started there is always high end equip for sale!
Every time someone offers a IMKII, MM or ModFAP for sale, these "The sky is falling" threads happen!

Don´t bother about your few friends actually leaving, go around make new friends.
Many people stay here, no matter how bad times turn.
Well I felt pissed by MA very often, and I am still here.
Yes, I reduced my deposits drastically, but I am still around and I still enjoy EU although some really shit happened to me (not all that shit was caused by MA, had same bad other experience with players fenture, too!).

To say it with NDs words: You have to believe, and never quit!
You only can reach goals, if you don´t quit, and believe that you manage to achieve your goals!
This doesn´t need huge deposits, a lot of things are doable with small deposits!
If someone can afford a PC for lets say 2.5k $ to be able to play EU, but can´t afford 10$ a month, there is something wrong.
10$ a month should be possible for everyone!
If people are willing to invest this amount of money every month, MA would be healthy and EU could improve.

From my experience the most quiters are those that think they can play totally free, and have to learn that 500 sweat an hour won´t buy you midlevel gear in a reasonable timeframe.
Well let them go!

GoNi said:

Well people leave people come!

Click to expand...

As it seems to be right now, 3 ppl leave for every one that comes, which is worrisome.

GoNi said:

10$ a month should be possible for everyone!

Click to expand...

And how long do those $10 last? Sure, they can be made to last for quite awhile, but if you rather eat living scorpions than kill another daik? Say an ordinary hunt for a midlevel player, trox mature-guard or some similar not-too-hard mob. For me, 100 ped wont last me more than a very few hours. At best.

And I can't help comparing that to what I remember from a few years back, when I typically depoed 6-700 ped twice/month, played for hours upon hours despite having really crappy skills (just found an old note: 22/4-06 I had a sum total of 37810 skillpoints! ) *and* using only "uneco" ul-weaponry. It is way more expensive to play now.

Wille said:

Everyone can afford this game its just a matter of which level you decide to play on, tell your quitting/leaving friends: If your current lvl is to expensive pick a lower one.

/Wille

Click to expand...

Playing within your ability is a common theme, but I wonder about that sometimes. Perhaps the system is designed so the player takes advantage of the natural progression that occurs (even though it is painfully slow now).

Dav said:

The problem is that, after five years ingame, it's no longer fun to shoot a gazillion of argo youngs, corns, low level drones et al. You want to be at least on the same "excitement level" as you were when you had jsut started playing, and for that to occur after several years ingame you need to hunt bigger mobs. And the cost to hunt those nowadays is just simply ridiculous...

Click to expand...

I had some rather nice loots and I just about always invested in skills. I figured if I could use my current items more efficiently, my returns would improve due to lowering the cost to use. I stuck with the same mobs because I am a firm believer that just because you can kill a Hogglo does not mean you should hunt them.

~CHOPPER~ said:

Fanbois ignore the simple fact that MA does NOT print money, they take peds from many and give to some.

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Partially agree... MA is a business. If they gave it all away they would close up tomorrow. They will get their share first - no doubt about that.

~CHOPPER~ said:

Only a dumbass would actually believe everyone can profit in EU.

Click to expand...

Completely agree (except the dumbass part... maybe ignorant is a better term). Some will be successful, but that success is paid for by the rest of us. There has to be controls built in to prevent everyone from hitting the big one and liquidating the MA assets. Otherwise, the system would have failed already IMO.

~CHOPPER~ said:

I agree, and I don't play with profit in mind I play for fun.
But when my returns consistently drop as my skills consistently increase WITH THE SAME gear over the past 2 years, as a depositor I have a right to complain.

I also reserve the right to call bullshit when someone says it's me that's doing something wrong.

The loot system has changed over the years, not my hunting style.

Click to expand...

Also agree... I play for fun, too. What works for one person may not work for someone else. Blindly saying someone is doing it wrong is conceited I think and counterproductive to assisting.

BOTTOM LINE IMO:

Do I think people are leaving at a faster rate than in the past? Perhaps, but only because there are more people ingame than there were 3 years ago. People will leave for many reasons, and while you may miss your friends make choices for yourself.

People come and people go... make new friends. Participate in events. Meet people. Find a reason to do what you are doing. Try not to get all wrapped up in what everyone else is doing... worry about yourself. There are some smart people here and ingame. Each of us have an opinion, and opinions will vary.

One Simply thing to fix this problem. Less ATH. More Globals and lower HOF's.

I have hunted for 4 years and never gotten a HOF on an argonaut. Why not?

LostCube said:

One Simply thing to fix this problem. Less ATH. More Globals and lower HOF's.

I have hunted for 4 years and never gotten a HOF on an argonaut. Why not?

Click to expand...

I have hunted for six years and never gotten a hof on a Chirpi. Why not?

If you are strictly hunting one thing and not getting what you want then maybe its time to change up something

Less ATHs and more globals with lower HOFs will not be a one click fix IMHO. ATHs, HOFs, and globals have been a part of PE and EU for a long while. Its nice to think that maybe one day the stars will align and loot mojo will return and something extraordinary will show up otherwise EU would, as far as gameplay is concerned, be quite boring. There has to be some reasons to continue to grind. Some are looking for that dream loot, others want to work to build that ped card, and others just enjoy the free play aspect.

Cost to play is a big factor but I don't think ATHs are sucking the peds out of people's pockets. Its an easy scape goat to think that it does. I personally think ATHs are funded in different ways and even if they magically went away we would see little difference in the cost to each of us personally. See everyone will have good and bad days sometimes weeks. Mitigate your loss on the bad days and weeks and when things turn around then dive into it head first.

People will always leave and people will start and still some will come back its been like this since I first started. EU is as expensive as you make it. No one is forcing us to deposit or spend wrecklessly but I see it all the time. Chalk it up to entertainment is what I say. Sometimes you see a really good movie or have a really good dinner and other times you have the worst meal and see a stinker of a movie. You still paid for it either way but you might take something away from it like passing on that directors next movie or not eating at that restaurant. We face those choices day in and day out in real life yet in a virtual world it sometimes seems like common sense is thrown out the window.

trance said:

hmm. i do same is i ever do since 5 years,,, and it use more cash as ever befor for same game play. This is a fact.. i do wrong to depo, yes, but now my depo is freez, like a lot other ppl doing.

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I agree completely. I used to make deposits of $100+ at a time and I knew basically how long it would last me. Then it started not lasting anywhere near as long even though my playing stayed the same. Finally I realized it wasn't getting better again. I'm not a HOF chaser and I'm perfectly willing to pay for my entertainment. I still depo, but it's much, MUCH smaller amounts and much less frequently. I only play enough to see what the returns are like. If they ever improve again I'll be willing to put more $ in and play more, but I am appalled at how bad returns have been.

LostCube said:

I have hunted for 4 years and never gotten a HOF on an argonaut. Why not?

Click to expand...

I think when someone says "I have been hunter for N years" is very relative, because the "density of the activity" is the correct measurement to compare the activity from one guy to the rest. (not the number of years from our first logging)

For example, People may forget that one hour of activity from Jenna Star´s way; may be very different from the activity of one guy or another.

So, exist players who are depositors and anothers who are Non-depositors. And exists depositors players from 10 dollars/year, to 50,000 dollars/year or more. Then, people must to understand that only could to compare, if all people are paying for the game exactly the same amount of money. But we know EU is not the case. For that reason, for example, if you never puts one dollar for the game, but you played for years (fun hours free of charge) you must to take on a sport way. By other hand, If we are depositors players , we must to consider if our deposits are lower than the costs of others games, for example, WOW; then we could think something like this: .. "well the people from Mindark works to live... i am paying them for an entertaiment service". And finally, the rest, the people who have the real rights to express its insatisfaction or not; could review, firstly, its own TT return rate; but considering the next: "This is a service with a cost. Some people in PCF says that a long term this cost is 10% TT on we play in the game". Well that means, in the better case, that if we have not in account the market values of the things that we are pretending to loot, we could circle our money 10 times (or less) before it finished.

(sorry my english is not good...I hope you can understand the idea)

Rayne Jade said:

Playing within your ability is a common theme, but I wonder about that sometimes. Perhaps the system is designed so the player takes advantage of the natural progression that occurs (even though it is painfully slow now).



I had some rather nice loots and I just about always invested in skills. I figured if I could use my current items more efficiently, my returns would improve due to lowering the cost to use. I stuck with the same mobs because I am a firm believer that just because you can kill a Hogglo does not mean you should hunt them.



Partially agree... MA is a business. If they gave it all away they would close up tomorrow. They will get their share first - no doubt about that.



Completely agree (except the dumbass part... maybe ignorant is a better term). Some will be successful, but that success is paid for by the rest of us. There has to be controls built in to prevent everyone from hitting the big one and liquidating the MA assets. Otherwise, the system would have failed already IMO.



Also agree... I play for fun, too. What works for one person may not work for someone else. Blindly saying someone is doing it wrong is conceited I think and counterproductive to assisting.

BOTTOM LINE IMO:

Do I think people are leaving at a faster rate than in the past? Perhaps, but only because there are more people ingame than there were 3 years ago. People will leave for many reasons, and while you may miss your friends make choices for yourself.

People come and people go... make new friends. Participate in events. Meet people. Find a reason to do what you are doing. Try not to get all wrapped up in what everyone else is doing... worry about yourself. There are some smart people here and ingame. Each of us have an opinion, and opinions will vary.

Click to expand...

Sryt what u speaking her somebody now its more players like before 3 years ....lol my frend u are dreaming i just go and make one round in teleports and check the place and after speaking before ewry place it was minimum 7-10 ppl i mean in TPs and now u say its more ppl ...just keep to dreaming Ma game and fpc its fk up we will see what heapening in 6-months

One these days, i'm actually gonner bother logging back in again to sell all my stuff.

Calin said:

I agree completely. I used to make deposits of $100+ at a time and I knew basically how long it would last me. Then it started not lasting anywhere near as long even though my playing stayed the same. Finally I realized it wasn't getting better again. I'm not a HOF chaser and I'm perfectly willing to pay for my entertainment. I still depo, but it's much, MUCH smaller amounts and much less frequently. I only play enough to see what the returns are like. If they ever improve again I'll be willing to put more $ in and play more, but I am appalled at how bad returns have been.

Click to expand...

When you compare the cost of playing today and before, do you do the same thing as before? Do you hunt the same mobs with the same equipment? I am curious if the cost of playing have gone up as so many says or if is only that the players "move up" and hunt bigger stuff, craft more expansive items.

Make them change the % im getting back, and will see.

for last 4year im getting under 60% back on everything i do except mining(but i hate drilling)

If i wouldnt be seeing the same name get big hof, and some noob getting 40k+ ath on their 2nd day, then maybe i would spent more.

nothing changed, i was a big player, and MA always favored the others big player, ive slowed, kept the same, slowed even more, no incentive to stay, i stopped for 5month and came back, still 60% return, ok? bye.

WHAT FPC DOESNT UNDERSTAND IS THEY ARE BURNING DOWN THE FUTURE PLAYER BASE THAT WILL KEEP OTHERS TO COME JOIN THE NEXT STUFF.

CAUSE THEY WILL BE NOW INTO OTHERS COMMUNITY AND TELL THEM TO NOT TOUCH ENTROPIA. ITS ALREADY HAPPENING

i think everything is ok..but we need more official events...or something monthly...or weekly..or anything.. Do something MA!!!!!!

billairboy said:

When you compare the cost of playing today and before, do you do the same thing as before? Do you hunt the same mobs with the same equipment? I am curious if the cost of playing have gone up as so many says or if is only that the players "move up" and hunt bigger stuff, craft more expansive items.

Click to expand...

Well.. it's maybe true that players moved up aswell.
With all the (L) stuff it's preaty cheap to use high armors and weapons.

Would be interesting if someone that plays a long time could do a test with the same equipment as time ago,
to see if there's any difference, and if yes, how big.

But ppl still leaving...

Would be interesting if someone that plays a long time could do a test with the same equipment as time ago,
to see if there's any difference, and if yes, how big.

Click to expand...

Yes, huge differences exist between ancient days and now. Nerfs play a big role in that. 2x0 with extra damage used to be the best melee weapon as did the opalo with huge amps... then along came the nerfs to remove the extra damage on 2x0 and the nerf to make opalo only work with a101 as the biggest amp...

...

then along came the SIB... and L...

Sib made the 2x0 and all UL, non-TT weapons go down in value a lot, and in usefulness, at least in the mindset of many.

Then, along came other nerfs. ... then along came CE2.. many, many, many issues, many of which have not been resolved after a full year! .. that bad experience along with prior experiences gives many grief, so they give up and leave.

some leave due to nerfs
some leave due to IRL economy needing more money -- so they don't deposit... and ultimately leave
some leave due to lack of stuff for people to do with no peds... sweating and hunting for fruit gets very old very fast...
some leave due to lack of good returns on loot.
some leave due to lack of customer service... (support tickets that say, "we are forwarding this to another dept." instead of taking responsibility for getting things done themselves, etc.)
some leave do to other issues (oh no, FPC now owns the forum, so we can't take this as all our secret pms are no longer secret, not that they ever were...)
some leave do the complaint threads...
some leave just because this game isn't what it's cracked up to be.
some leave because the download size is too huge... (what, you mean the download is over a gig in size and will take over an hour to download)
others leave for other reasons...

some never even join the game in the first place because they never hear about it as MA/FPC/Rocktropia don't do nearly enough advertising... I don't see their ads on superbowl. I don't see their ads in comic books. I don't see their ads in computer magazines. i don't see their ads in video game mags. I don't even see their ads on facebook... They do have an affiliate program, but you need to read a certain language to understand it as google translate even chokes on it.

Threre are a number of reasons why people are leaving

Well sometimes like I always state, a blind man can often see the forest through the trees when it comes to the obvious questions.

So why are people leaving? There's a number of factors as to why they are leaving, and these are perhaps the most obivous ones:

1. The economy is bad, not in just one locale, but over the entire globe: This is perhaps the number one reason as to why more people aren't playing, and as to why some folks are leaving the game. The thing is that when the economic meltdown in America happened, due to banks defaulting on loans, and to the fact that some people were unable to pay high mortgage rates on their houses (and eventually lost them, thus forcing the banks to default further on loans), people realized something. They had to save money, and in a way, this forced them to cut back on a lot of things, including their entertainment. Today some people can't afford to go out to a movie, let alone an amusement park. They are buying fewer entertainment products, and of course people are playing less games, including online games, especially those that cost money to play. And it doesn't mattter if it's EU or some other game. People just don't have the cash.

2. Cryengine 2 and the failure by players to prepare for it: Now compared to 1, and taking the fact that the economy is bad, very few people can now afford to upgrade or buy a new computer. And yet, two years ago, when the specifications for CryEngine 2 came out, very few players did upgrade, or were prepared to upgrade to the recommended specifications. And some were totally unable due to their financial situations (refer back to issue 1), others assumed that they could play the new gaming engine on old computers and thus refused to believe of the new specifications. (It's those that failed to plan who did fail when they logged in after downloading the client, and suddenly realized that their machine couldn't handle the game, even in low settings). Yet for 2 years they had the time to upgrade their computers so they could have been ready. In this aspect approximately more than half of the player base (some say as much as 60%) were unprepared for the conversion. and of that group, 60% of that group, didn't even bother to read the specs, and to adjust accordingly, and thus in the end, ended up not playing at all. Now granted ince then, some folks have adjusted albeit slowly. And those who finally have the cash and the ability to upgrade are finally doing so. So while some of the people are leaving, some are coming back. and some will never come back due to the fact that they're unable to.

3. Lack of patience and quick self gratification: Now compared to 1 and 2, people today lack patience, and in some cases, some of these same folks want the self gratification to become uber as quickly as possible. And therein lies another issue. While in other games, some people skill up quickly, and reach their peak potential in a few weeks or a couple of months, this game takes years to master. Something a lot of today's younger generatio don't want to do. They want to have results instantly. They want the fact that they can make money quickly. To them, they really don't care how they do it, they want to be level 80+ Characters in a few weeks or months. But they lack the patience to do so. So what do they do? They quit. (I had a case in point a few days ago, when I befriended a new player to the game. He was asking how to make money and do so quickly. I explained to him, that he really had three options:

A: To deposit say 10 dollars into the game. (his reply was that he didn't (or couldn't, or didn't want to ) do that.

B: To sweat (and I advised him fully that because of the economy, [see issue 1] and the fact of other factors his sweat down on Calypso wouldn't be worth much [and even though we were up on Rocktropia, I explained to him that he could still sell his sweat to a trader, or to the flea market (which is held every two weeks but because the people running the flea market were buying so much sweat, that the prices even on Rocktropia had fallen to 4 Ped per K, Still a better price than Calypso, but.. (he argued he wanted a gun/pistol/rifle that he could get into the game as quickly as possible, and he thought that sweating was boring in general. Yet he seemed to me to lack the patience to even try. But he still wanted to play. In short, he wanted quick self gratification yet didn't want to put an effort into it.] So that idea was out.

C: and I offered this solution to him. Why not look for stones fruit and dung.? At first he reluctantly agreed, and after driving him out to a safe mob free area where he could look for said objects, he didn't even bother to listen on how to do it. he just at that pointsaid, "To heck with hit, I'll go play something else. and promptly signed off. Whether he'll be back or not, weill be entirely his choice, but unless FPC (and MA give the new players more options to do things, then this will be the choices any new player has. But then there is a 4th thing new players can do, and that is:

D: Come onto a forum like this and suggest new ideas and new ways to play, or better yet, file support cases and make suggestions as well. After all now with PCF being online, people are actually reading these forums, and are trying to listen to everyone's griefs. And support casses are definitely a way that everyone listens, be it MA, FPC, or Neverdie Studios. They all listen, but it will be up to each Planet partner (or MA in general) to figure out what to do, to make the game more interesting.

But still some facts never change, and the search for self-gratifcation, and quick results seem to the new player to be their major sticking point.. If they came in with the realization that this game isn't gong to be easy, that it's going to be challenging, then (and only then), would they realize that this isn't another game, it's EU. and that you're going to have to put a lot of time and effort into it. pure and simple. Otherwise, they might as well go look for a job, and really compain then.

4. People don't learn how to adapt, or change their approach to the game: Now while some newcomers don't have the patience, some older (and supposedly wiser) players, have failed to learn from mistakes, or have failed to change their playing styles. And in a way they are thus throwing hundreds of PED down doing the same thing over and over again. So in a way, they are just banging their heads against the wall. Also I've heard from experience, that some miners are complaining they can't climb step cliffs, and get to their claims, in order to recover them. Well in a case like that they're not really solving the problems. Because we're in a new gaming engine, and the rules in a way have changed, some folks are thinking that what applied in the previous VU applies here. Not true. This game isn't all about hunting or mining, it's about learning hot to adapt, and how to think (Both on your feet, and with your mind to solve problems). A lot of people fail to do either one or the other, and thus end up wating a lot of time and energy baning their heads against said wall.

of course then there are tools out there to help them achieve their goals. and of course they don't research the issues.. (Like is it a good day to hunt? or to mine? or to craft? or should I lay low a day and go look for fruit stones and dung?) Knowing when to start and stop is a key reason people learn to make money or to lose it.

5. Work within a budget. : I have personally read over this forum a number of times, and I hear the same stories over and over again. "I throw hundreds of PED into my hunting, and I get nothihng!" is the chief cry. And yet it makes me wonder do these folks ever research wwhat mob they're going to hunt? What armor to use on said mob, and even what type of gun to use? Apparently not. But the biggest stickler I hear is that they burn through that money in a day, and then throw a more money into the game, and thus lose that too. It seems that those who do this aren't budget conscious.

With me, if I am low on Ped, I learn to sacrifice, and to give up somethings I knwo are worth money. I try to recycle PED every which way I can, either by putting it on auction, or to just TT it. Some folks don't do this, and in the end, they tend to end up with a lot of loot, and no PED to sell it on auction.. And they certainly don't want TT it either.. So they're at an impasse. And in the end, they're forced to eitehr sit around, and chat to each other (which is okay as well), or they don't play for a month, (which is also okay too.) After all what we choose or don't is totally up to us.
But getting back to the issue of budgeting, many people don't do it.. They don't pace themselves, and in the end, they end up spending a lot of time doing a whole lot of nothing.

6. Are the loots getting smaller? Yes they are (But for a variety of reasons): now that we've seen the first five issues at hand, this brings up the sixth reason. and that is the fact that we have a number of things to think about.
First off, the economy is bad, second, there's a smaller player base, third, some newcomers don't even want to donate a little, (or lack patience, or want instant gratification, or even all three). Fourth, people don't learn to adapt, and finally by not adapting to the situations thrown at them, they're not learning to adjust their playing habits and thus work on a budget.

But let's look at this even furtehr. When Cryengine 2 came out last year, MA took a big hit cause they are using this engine, and it cost them a pretty penny. Of Course, because of the fact, that some players refused or didn't plan to update theircomputer to handle said game, did some of the player base leave. Others did come in to replace them, but some of them were impatient and thus left in frustation, and yet others, didn't pace themselves, and in the end too left in frustration, because they weren't getting the big loots. In short are the loots are getting smaller? well yes and no.. They are geting smaller due to all these issues (The Game Engine, the lack of updating the computer, and of course the impatience and self gratification types), but remember this: if anyone read the financial reports, the CryEngine 2 wasn't cheap. and we're sort of paying back on it, to cover the cost of not only the decay, but also the fact thatt we're paying on the principal of cost for the engine too.

So yes Loots are indeed smaller, but then you have to throw in the other factors asell.

But if enough people had enough patience, and even donated a small amount of money, even 10 bucks, and be patient, could things turn around. Until then, things won't turn around. Pure and simple.

7. Common Greed (and how to avoid this): Granted new folks are greedy, and then some players wonder.. why isn't my item selling on auction? it's because of the fact that you wanted too much money for said item.. i short, you're greedy aren't you?

It's funny that in the movie Wall Street, a man quoted that "Greed is good". well in a way he's partially right. Greed is good up to a point, it does help drive an economy. But once you go beyond a certain point in greed, (in short asking for way over markup), you then do something you didn't expect: you help the market stagnate. I've seen a lot of player asking way too much money for such common place items.. Some of them are even making sillier mistakes like prlacing near broken (or totally broken) items on the market, and expecting someone to pay out the wazoo for it. And others are wanting that extra ped more, yet when they ask to buy things, they are not willing to part with an extra PED to buy it.

This is part of why Greed isn't good. Because when pride kicks in, and not knowing when to gie up a ped for an item honestly or paying out a pED for an item, does the market stagnate. Also it's interesting to note that 90% of the market that exists, exists on Calypso, and a ton of it is way overpriced.. even for players on Rocktropia. So they don't want to buy the goods. and the market stagnates further.

So yeah greed is good up to a point.. But now it's just getting downright silly, selfish, self-centered, and downright well.. greedy. Some people are being greedy selling their items, others are being cheapskates for not paying an extra ped more to buy an item. And then there are some of us, who suck up, and say, heck I'll buy it for that extra ped.. and we help drive the economy. but it's those who don't suck up and swallow their pride that is causing it to stagnate, and thus, that's why wehere here, in a very stagnant market.

8. The EU doesn't reolve just around Calypso: And people think Calypso is well established.. It is, granted, a majority of players hang around Calypso a liot,and they have friends on Calypso..
yet some of us realize one thing.. There's another planet out there to explore.. and another. and while some folks see Rocktropia as a "Vacation planet, others like myself see it as an opporitunity to explore a durdgening and expanding market. We look at the opporitunities handed to us, and we adapt to the fact that when another planet open up, there's potential there too. In short Calypso may have been the first planet in the universe, but it's not the only ne in the universe. We all know that Rocktropia exists (and granted some people think that ND, messed it up.. he didn't.. rather it's the short sightedness of players that is making it not grow).

It's those who seek interplanetary commerce and the ability to adjust and help develop a market that makes the economic wheels turn. Some of us are doing that right now.. But a lot of people don't see Rocktropia as nothing more than a vacation world. Rather than a land of opportunity. They fail to realize there's a potential playerbase up on Rocktropia and that while some players go to Calypso others go to Rocktropia.. (and eventually soon to the other planets once they open. So what to do? Spread the market around. and give other playrs a chance.. (and this goes back to the issue of Greed.. suck up, and give up that 40 PED, and take a trip up there with some items.. try to sell them on auction up there.. People will indeed buy them.. (Also for the resellers, I will say this.. Don't try to short change the Rocktropian sweaters.. They know the value of a dollar, and they're not going to give in to the issue of your offers of cheaper simple cash.. Suck up and pay them the 5 pED.. or better yet, don't come to the planet at all.

and finally...

9. A ton of other reasons.: Take a look above and read this thread. Some people know what's going on, some people do not. Yet all the answers are there on the table, and it's because of all the things that have happened, and have yet still to happen. Granted MA has nerfed some things, but people don't realize about how certain things work, they don't learn to adapt, or learn period. They also fail to research the issues. And in some cases some don't even bother thinking. They fail to adapt to any situation thrown at them.

But if people did think, and did do so wisely would they go far in this game. If they had the patience, the too would go far, and if people thought out things, and have planned things out in advance, will they enjoy this game better.

So yeah, we've got it all spelled out. But the question will be this.. Will anyone listen to reason?

That's the biggest question that is in all of us. It's up to each of us to answr that question in his/her own right.
I think that once we all realize this, can we all enjoy this game a whole lot better. But until then, people will leave, in frustartion, some will leave in anger, and even a little bit poorer but wiser. But maybe they should learn from history. and here it is, cause this did happen some 70 years ago. and by reading all of this above, and adding in thsi little bit of history below will we call come to realize why some folks are successful in this game. And here it is

The History of the Great Depression:
During the great depression of the late 1920's, the 1930's and the very early 1940's, some people didn't plan properly, they lost millions of dollars in cash, why? Because they sold out. and yes they left this world, a little bit poorer, a little bit wiser, and in the end, some of them just lept to their deaths just for the fact that they lost millions.

But others prepared, they knew what to do, they learned how to buy in a seller's market, to not to get greedy, and hold onto their assets, and knew that once the market recovered, they would be able to become rich.. but at their own pace..

And you know.. they did..

So feel free to say bullocks.. cause in the end, you'll probably leave too. As for me, I'm hanging around.. Cause I have a lot of options to choose from. And I plan to explore them all.

Benjamin 'Ben' Coyote
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper"

BenCoyote said:

4. People don't learn how to adapt, or change their approach to the game

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<-------Guilty.... even though I have said it before to others.

i can give one simple example as to the reason why people are leaving this game;

a pair of virtual sunglasses in this game costs more than a pair of designer sunglasses IRL.

thats pretty much sums up the current market, and why most MMO players are not touching this game

omsl said:

i can give one simple example as to the reason why people are leaving this game;

a pair of virtual sunglasses in this game costs more than a pair of designer sunglasses IRL.

thats pretty much sums up the current market, and why most MMO players are not touching this game

Click to expand...

hmmz I got mine for free... as a gift

sitram said:

You have one thing that you can't control.

The big loots.

If you get them, you're basically doomed.

Before I got my big loots I had constantly over 90% tt return using mostly high dmg/pec L weapons. After the big loots my overall tt return jumped a lot on plus side and for over 5 months now I experience a constant 10% decrease in tt return. Instead of the regular 90%-95% tt return now I get 80%-85%. It's kinda hard to cover 15%-20% tt loss from markup of the loot, not even with an UL SIB weapon.

The big question is when will this stop? Because as it is now for me is very frustrating.

Will it stop when I get my overall tt return under 100% or it will continue to drop until I reach something like 80-85% overall tt loss and then get another big loot to compensate?

All in all, I hope I never get another big loot for as long as I play EU.

Click to expand...

I hit a 3500 argo, and a 1500 OA101 within a month.

Lets say i get around 30-40% back from a hunt, unless its a good time to hunt, in which i end up positive

I never hunt if the mobs arent looting.

I want to provide some feedback as a relative newcomer who is staying around.

First a note on my expenses...
I've been playing for several months now. Up until last week I had deposited approx $300 total [and that included around $200 for plates and an opalo SGA]*. So approx $100 spent on ammo, decay and incidental equipment. Last week I more than doubled my deposits so I could buy an unlimited Riker UL2, cos my skills are just about up to it and it makes a lot more sense to me from an eco viewpoint than to buy the limited version (MU on a limited weapon effectively means u are paying decay upfront).
So I spent over $300 on a gun but I know that I could TT it tomorrow and recover all but a few dollars.

I've just done a quick check on entropia bay. If I could sell all my gear at their MU then I would lose less than $100. At TT value I would lose around $200 so my effective cost to play per month is around $20 - 40. That's not so bad. And I haven't taken into account the theoretical value of my skills. No idea what they are worth.

Just like many people I play for fun. My aim is to maximise fun while losing money as slowly as possible without screwing with the fun factor too much. If I actually profit thats just a bonus. What I enjoy includes:
- shooting critters - but they don't have to be big. I was shooting dakibas now I am on argos, merps, working on the missions. Team hunts are fun too but it's not easy to tee those up due to timezone differences.
- scoring globals. I love those cheers and flashing lights. In fact I enjoy it way out of proportion to what I win. A 50 ped global is $5. So it's clearly not the amount. Give me more cheers and flashing lights pls.
- skilling up - I enjoy the satisfaction from growing in my professions and being able to use a new weapon at max efficiency. Its doesn't worry me that skill progression is slow compared to other games.
- loot - I would like to lose as little as possible. So more loot is goodness.
- social interaction. I'm a member of a friendly society that have provided great advice on how to play smart, included me in team hunts. I would probably be losing a lot more without their support. Over the long haul, its the people you play with that make a game environment a great place to be.

So right now, Entropia is scoring well on the fun factor with costs not too bad. In fact the most fun (team hunt) is probably the least expensive. I recall one two hour hunt (hunting armax, trox with opalos) that I lost 5 ped on. Thats 50 cents for two hours entertainment. That seems like pretty good value.

So I can see how u can easily spend too much money but I dont see that its mandatory. Play to ur budget. And if you arent having fun doing that, then its time to move on.

Now for the negative aspects.

I would really like to get into crafting but it is too expensive, especially at low skill levels. It seems that his is an occupation that is not open to newer players if they are going to be sensible about their costs. Seems to me that crafting is fundamentally screwed up.

While I enjoy the game and talk about it with my friends, I feel I cant recommend it to them, cos in my opinion you really do need to be spending money to enjoy the game (sweating is no way to spend your game time) and there are so many free games, or games with trial periods. Also the learning curve for the interface is very steep. I found the first week of playing very frustrating. I had one friend try and give up becos she was stuck on calyspo gateway and having problems shooting and moving around - really basic stuff. And I couldnt go join her in game to talk her though it. This game really needs an in-world help terminal that provides good interface help as well as help on other aspects of game play.

*dollar figure mentioned for opalo SGA and plates is wrong - see post below. And thanks to unearth for catching it.

KijkkiJikki said:

I want to provide some feedback as a relative newcomer who is staying around.

First a note on my expenses...
I've been playing for several months now. Up until last week I had deposited approx $300 total and that included around $200 for plates and an opalo SGA. So approx $100 spent on ammo, decay and incidental equipment. Last week I more than doubled my deposits so I could buy an unlimited Riker UL2, cos my skills are just about up to it and it makes a lot more sense to me from an eco viewpoint than to buy the limited version (MU on a limited weapon effectively means u are paying decay upfront).
So I spent over $300 on a gun but I know that I could TT it tomorrow and recover all but a few dollars.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, I just got a little question ...
Did you buy UL UL2? What kind of plates did you buy for 200$?

Just wondering if you don't mean PEDs ^^
Peace.

"Did you buy UL UL2? What kind of plates did you buy for 200$?"

Hmm, rethinking that bit. Was opalo SGA and plates 5b (*7) but even then the numbers are wrong.
Plates total would have been around 300 ped. Opalo would be about 180 ped. not even close to $200, lol.

Thanks for the catch.

Yes I bought Riker UL2, unlimited. Am going to start using it as soon as my Riker UL1 (L) wears out. I was using Breers but the Rikers seem to be the better choice now they are maxed.

omsl said:

i can give one simple example as to the reason why people are leaving this game;

a pair of virtual sunglasses in this game costs more than a pair of designer sunglasses IRL.

thats pretty much sums up the current market, and why most MMO players are not touching this game

Click to expand...

Could u pls tell us, what designer glasses cost 20eur in RL?

It's not only about what style you play but also how you approach this (I play to lose)

Rayne Jade said:

<-------Guilty.... even though I have said it before to others.

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Well that's okay Rayne Jade, I don't blame you or the others for playing the way you do.

However...

This is one of the reasons why people get frustrated.. and they go on a bit of a "Gotta get the global/HoF/TH" kick.
(They have this attitude of "I'm going to win"(No Matter how much money I burn), "I'm going to win".


Now i'm not saying that you should change your playing style, here folks. not in the least.. But this goes back to the comment I made (Number 5:

5. Work within a budget. : I have personally read over this forum a number of times, and I hear the same stories over and over again. "I throw hundreds of PED into my hunting, and I get nothing!" is the chief cry. And yet it makes me wonder do these folks ever research what mob they're going to hunt? What armor to use on said mob, and even what type of gun to use? Apparently not. But the biggest stickler I hear is that they burn through that money in a day, and then throw even more money into the game, and thus lose that too. It seems that those who do this aren't budget conscious.

Click to expand...

What am I saying here? Well I try to limit my spending.. to no more than 1500 PED per month.. (Sounds like im a big spender here right? Well not quite).

What I do is that I don't go off on these "I gotta get that Global/HoF/ATH" kind of thinking.. I use common sense and keep a running total of what I do in terms of hunting, and especially mining. Granted I'm getting skills for doing what I do, but If I'm behind in the game, I cut my loses and then wait until another day.. (and sometimes I don't go out the next day). I might wait a few days, until I see a chance to go out there, and turn over a profit, even a small one..

And sometimes, you get lucky.. A lot of tmes you don't. But when it does happen, be thankful for what you got. In short change your attitude from "I'm going to wn," to "I'm going to lose, each and every time." (Sound's Like I'm a "Negative Nancy", Right? Think again..)

Case in Point:

About 3 to 6 months ago, I was hanging around twin.. I was not doing much (as I had in a way reached my spending limite at the time, (Which was about 1K PED), and that I was going to depo in just a just a few days. My ped card read only 4+ ped.. Sounds Like I lost it all right? Nope, I paced myself every day I went out and I kept thinking in that negative nacy way. I knew when to stop and save a few ped on the side, each and every time, and eventually, I kept just the right amount in reserve (Which in this case was just 4 PED) for a rather surprising event.

I was talking with one of my socmates in chat and he said, "Ben, can you get some probes/bombs and come out here northeast of Jason Centre?" My response what "Why?" My socmate was getting a lot of perception off of robots in the area he was hunting, an wasn't getting anything spectacular. (He had a hunch that there was something out there, and that it was more than likely something to do with a mining issue.) He said "it's gut intuition and I feel there's soemthing out there."

I looked down at my ped card.. 4 PED enough for 8 probes, or 4 bombs.. (Not a good chance for a run right?)

"Hmm, I don't know " I said,

My socmate rellied, "Tell you what, get as many of whatever type of probes or bombs you can muster, and come out here, pronto.. if you get zilch, I'll spot you the 4 PEDs and that way you won't be out till the end of the month. and then you can pay me back on the first when you depo."

No guts, no glory, eh? Either way I was still going to owe my socmate 4 PED.

So I did the gutsy move, and took out just 8 probes, 4 PED in all. And I decided to meet up with the socmate and he took me out to the area in question. Of course to save money, I wasn't wearing armor.. Not a single piece. (I was running the most eco way I could. )

But in the back of my mind, I kept saying over and over again, "I'm going to lose or get nothing.. and Well, that's fine."

And off I went.. and after a short distance, and a bit of backup fire power, I dropped the first probe.. zilch..
(Okay nothing there, but hey I was expecting nothing right?)

I spied the territory ahead of me, and there were a couple of bots ahead of where I wanted to go,. I told my socmate what to clear out, and while he kept them busy, I did an end around, and got to where I wanted to drop..

Nothing there right? Nope.. this time, I got a hit.. (of course I was thinking, okay nothing big, but hey at least paid for the probe right?)

I looked at the deed.. and blinked.. and blinked again.

"Uh," I started "I think I found that perception you were talkng about" I chuckled..

"How big and how much?" My socmate shot back.

"Growth Molecules, Size... XII." We both busted out laughing..

I finished my run and got only one more hit (a level IV Oil) but just those two hits alone, paid not only for the probes, (4PED in all) but also for the decay on the tools (20 cents on the drill and finder) , PLUS I turned over a 38+ PED profit.

and you know what? That same socmate is still helping me from time to time, and I'm helping him. In fact I'm paying him off, with Pixie SGA parts that he wants.. granted I lose the parts, but hey, I still get something for that 4 PED effort right?

But here's the bottom line: When you go ut there with the mentality of "I'm going to get a Global/Hof/ATH" a lot of times it doesn't happen, or it does but you're disappointed. So you try harder, and get more frustrated..

But if you go out there with the attitude of "I'm going to get absolutely nothing, and I'm probably going to lose," Sometimes you find these nice surprises. sometimes in loot, sometimes in globals, sometimes in hofs..

(Granted it sounds like negative thinking), but stop and flip that around for a moment, by expecting nothing, you might just get something.. And the solo globals, and the team globals, and even the Team Hof's all have been with this same type of attitude.. Never expect to win, play to lose.

After all this is Entropia Universe.. (Look up Entropia sometime.. you'll fnd out what it means. )

I think if more players had that kind of the losing attitude rather than the winning, and worked within the budget they set up, they would be able to spread out their runs and be more apt to succeed..

But with a lot of players, the mentality is "I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta get it!" with that attitude, you're just tricking yourself into thinking it will happen, when in reality it probably won't.

But if you go into the game knowing that you're not going to get all your money back, or you're going to lose a lot, and knowing when to stop, only then will you really achieve a true sense of the game, and by working on and within a budget, a budget, you'll be able to pace yourself better, and thus keep going for a longer time..

And when you do run low on cash? Think about this: Granted there's always sweating, and granted there's always stones fruit or dung hunting.. But do one, or the other or both.. and do it without armor.. that's perhaps the most eco way to play..

Or better yet, take a few days off from the game, or hand around and chat it up with your socmates, or friends. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.. (and besides, if played with the right attitude and the right approach, you will indeed go far. )

Wise words from "The Coyote".

Benjamin 'Ben' Coyote, a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper"

I think that KijkkiJikki hit it dead on the nail, to many people deposit a certain amount low or large & it goes away to fast for a sustained amount of play. People need to plan better, seeing your budget for the month then calculating what gun you could use that blows a fraction of that amount each day. Let's say 500ped each month / 30 days. That puts it in the range of 16 to 18 ped per day. Then you need to look at the amount of hours you have each day lets say 2-4hours. So according to the budget for one month & expenditure for each day should give me a clear indication of what gun I should use to hunt etc for each day. Obviously the gun would be an Opalo on its own should give u I guess 2 hours play. Not very exciting statistics which is why a lot of people after depositing and losing it on bigger mobs within a few days or 2 weeks don't come back online. Untill they can repeat the same process untill that becomes boring due to constant loses and nolonger return.

Another method would be to use 100ped each day of a week, but if you are losing most of it then it would be a bad idea if you keep on hunting a mob that just doesn't want to give you loot. This method has some risk involved but can be done to good effect if done properly, can give you a chance to gain a better return rate.

BenCoyote said:

....

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Jeez dude

You say that "I don't go off on these "I gotta get that Global/HoF/ATH" kind of thinking" and yet you take probes with your last 4 peds going to an area where a soc mate of yours got perception hopping to hit something bigger then average.

Is it me or you kinda contradict yourself?