Petition: Restore old mining loot system

Xen said:

And I don't see how the new system hurts amp sales, if anything people will feel safer using amps because of the decreased chance of a bad return, and people who must have globals increase their change with amps.

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It's actually the reason i stay away from any amp at the moment, maybe up to lvl7-8 it won't make that much of a difference but why would i use anything like lvl10-13 with higher MU when I can rest assured it's not going to do anything other than amplify the standard 'V' claim? Just look at the usual big amp users like Squall who were using 12-13s on foma on a regular basis. A couple of weeks ago they were able to hit the occasional uber with a 5digit here and there.. now however people are having trouble getting half an uber with those amps The thrill factor for mining's been removed as far as I'm concerned, was top30 miner up until a couple of weeks ago but since the changes it just got really boring for me.

Shinta Himura Kenji, old system fan (despite the possibly horrendous runs here and there yes)

Change it back, Few folks I Know have already Ped/Chipped out and don't plan on coming back im in the process of doing it my self as we speak, This game has lost it luster and is now a time bomb waiting to implode.

let the unamp folks have there steady return swap the damn AMPs back to the way they were!


Travis Bullse Deatheater For old system

bvandevelde said:

The thrill factor for mining's been removed as far as I'm concerned

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There ya have it

I think I'm going to make a couple of my own lists.

"Whiney bitches who will never be happy with the mining system no matter what MA do"

and

"Avatars who cry when every mining drop isn't a HoF"


So who wants to be on my lists?

omfg......
everyone relax DRop and give me 50 pushups!!!!!


They make the TT more Even across the board..... and you are crying???

the biggest issue was the obscure tt returns......
people never understood how it works.... maybe never will


but i enjoy how it is... sucks not seeing lights all the time... but when you do hit now that makes it even more unique and Fun

perhaps instead of stressing about returns people will enjoy and be Surprised when a nice hit does occur.....


instead of before where it was stressing about returns and then hit and shrug it off.... now it's more unique moments in my eyes...

Keep how it is and Expand on it i say!!!

bvandevelde said:

It's actually the reason i stay away from any amp at the moment, maybe up to lvl7-8 it won't make that much of a difference but why would i use anything like lvl10-13 with higher MU when I can rest assured it's not going to do anything other than amplify the standard 'V' claim? Just look at the usual big amp users like Squall who were using 12-13s on foma on a regular basis. A couple of weeks ago they were able to hit the occasional uber with a 5digit here and there.. now however people are having trouble getting half an uber with those amps The thrill factor for mining's been removed as far as I'm concerned, was top30 miner up until a couple of weeks ago but since the changes it just got really boring for me.

Shinta Himura Kenji, old system fan (despite the possibly horrendous runs here and there yes)

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This.

Before the changes I was mining with level 5s mostly, and most nights would drop between 100-200 single drop bombs. So say 500 ped a night on average cycled. I know it isn't a huge amount, some days I'd mine a lot more. Now with the changes it is pointless for me to amp. The markup drives out any real profit I'd make. I'm better off dropping unamped, and mining longer. I get less skills and spend less PED this way, but seeing as I'm not going to hit a big claim, there is no use amping. Before there was some chance to it, a chance to hit a big claim. I drop between 100-200 bombs about 3 times a week now. So before on a week when I was spending anywhere from 2100 PED to 4200 PED cycled, I'm now spending 300-600 PED a week cycled. I was spending 7x more in the old system. MA was getting much more money from decay from me in the old system.

I can't stress how much this change sucked the fun out of it for me, there is no excitement anymore. It's almost like being stuck in a college or university class where the professor is talking in a monotonic voice. You're there to better yourself (avatar). You're spending your money (PED) with hopes of investing it in a carrer (skills) but it's just so dull you can hardly stay awake (Small V).

Revert to the old way preferebly, or at least a middle ground, something... anything more exciting.
Archie Atlantis Sims

Lots of gamblers in EU!? For me there is no difference between the old system and the new one. I get roughly the same return with or without amps.

Strash said:

omfg......
everyone relax DRop and give me 50 pushups!!!!!


They make the TT more Even across the board..... and you are crying???

the biggest issue was the obscure tt returns......
people never understood how it works.... maybe never will


but i enjoy how it is... sucks not seeing lights all the time... but guess what it's when you do now that makes it even more unique and Fun

perhaps instead of stressing about returns people will enjoy and be Surprised when a nice hit does occur.....


instead of before where it was stressing about returns and then hit and shrug it off.... now it's more unique moments in my eyes...

Keep how it is and Expand on it i say!!!

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lol...how's the air up there Strash? If your nose gets any higher it'll get lopped off by a mothership.

Must be nice now paying for that UL amp with steady boring returns....lol

The rest of us normal folk that have to use (L) ain't feeling the love so much.

Could you elaborate a bit on where the fun comes in?????

I'm sure after I add my two pecs I will have a lynch mob after me , but I am finding this rather amusing due to the fact a whining thread or two or more about too big hofs and ath , you all whinged not naming anyone but as a collective and MA responded now that they responded you are whinging again (the collective)
And what is sad I think is that it is more about the gambling factor which I don't think belongs in this game , I applaud mindark on their efforts to make entropia more balanced for everyone .
I myself know it can getnotonous but at the end of the day its the balance at the end that matters for progression and really its up to the individual to make it more exciting , if u can't do that then maybe u need to find something else

So remember its not the wow factor of a swirlie or two coz even still you can lose a lot , its about what you spend and what u get in return that matters and I know that this way is so much better , it means more time in game at a less expense and striving harder ,

Good luck everybody with what it is you make do with this rebalancing that ma has given us


And I'm not hating on anyone in this thread .

First of all i worked for this amp in the game....

i used L amps to achieve such a goal ....

i found some areas that avg 130%+

buy bulk amps better %.... lower the mu on the amp the better chance.....

i guess it just takes more work to find these areas.....

GL out there

Strash said:

First of all i worked for this amp in the game....

i used L amps to achieve such a goal ....

i found some areas that avg 130%+

buy bulk amps better %.... lower the mu on the amp the better chance.....

i guess it just takes more work to find these areas.....

GL out there

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agreed...I respect what you did...but you also did it under the old system...not this new shit...


just sayin
I get you want to ram your foot on everyone elses throat and keep em down.

pretty sure i could do it again....
i just would have to be on top of it all the time.

giuly_adm said:

List growing... if I missed someone pls let me know

Today 2nd in mining hof list is a 550 ped find, I don't know others, but I won't mine until I know there is the possibility to get something big out there.

TT return is good, I like that part of the new system, but a neverending no-profit no-loss activity, with no chance to get big win, loses interest to me.

Middle way maybe is the right direction, but please MA take measures!

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Sorry, I forgot to write my full avatar name.

Jin Artrat Mugen - old system

chevrons said:

Amps always did decrease your return. But their whole point was that they increase the return per hour. That hasn't changed, so your point is wrong.

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My point of view is correct.
Earlier we had a sequence: 5-2-3-7-3 - ... 4 .. 2-11-2-7-5-10-17 etc.
We now have a sequence 5-5-5-5-5-5-4-5-5-5-5-4

Using an 5 lvl amplifier, we increased 17 Claim to 3x, ie to 20, and 20-th for example to 23 (Rich). Thus repulsed all losts for 5-10 sessions.
In this case, it made sense to pay Markup

Now the increasing turnover per hour does not increase the probability to get a HoF or ATH.

Increasing the size of Claims is linear, and does not allow to cover the losses of the previous sessions by HoF's or ATH

Gewitter, your argument is based on MA reducing the average return, not on the pattern of the return. As it happens, I do think they have done that as well, but it is not the theme of this thread.
Btw, amps multiply a claim value, they don't increase a claim size by a fixed number, which may explain your misunderstanding.

chevrons said:

Btw, amps multiply a claim value, they don't increase a claim size by a fixed number.

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Level 5 amp on Caly (ore). W/o amp all claims will be mostly V. With amp all claims will be mostly VIII.
Number of multiplying is fixed. Earlier it was not so obvious.

Strash said:

i found some areas that avg 130%+

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Yeah. When residue was ~105% and amps was ~110% in avg? And Niks ~130%, Cobalt ~135%, Gazz ~124%, Narc 127%, even fucking Blau was ~120%? This time?

Strash said:

i guess it just takes more work to find these areas.....

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More work? No, it's impossible now with (L) amps. Or those areas "non-grindable". In best scenario - you will just breakeven with (L) amps.

Strash said:

pretty sure i could do it again....
i just would have to be on top of it all the time.

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I'm pretty sure you will go in red pretty fast, and then we will see pretty lvl7s on pretty condtion.

giuly_adm said:

List growing... if I missed someone pls let me know

Today 2nd in mining hof list is a 550 ped find, I don't know others, but I won't mine until I know there is the possibility to get something big out there.

TT return is good, I like that part of the new system, but a neverending no-profit no-loss activity, with no chance to get big win, loses interest to me.

Middle way maybe is the right direction, but please MA take measures!

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check my tracker

and to the people suggesting there should be a slider like in crafting, you are idiots, i cant put it any other way.

and if i have to explain why its dumb to suggest the person unamped (and not paying markup) should have a better/more even return than one amped (paying markup on amps) then there is no hope for you.
everyone has to be on the same system for mining to work or not work for everyone?

i loved mining before they totally screwed it up, used to mine constantly with lvl5's, but a better average TT return is not the reason i hardly mine any more.

FallenAngel said:

and to the people suggesting there should be a slider like in crafting, you are idiots, i cant put it any other way.

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You just don't understand what they want. They want to mine on "quantity", meanwhile carrying shitloads of residue (two types - metal and energy ofc) to fill up TT of their claims.

Let's them get what they wishing for.

addz said:

I think I'm going to make a couple of my own lists.

"Whiney bitches who will never be happy with the mining system no matter what MA do"

and

"Avatars who cry when every mining drop isn't a HoF"


So who wants to be on my lists?

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Thinking of making a list of all the trolling bitches who have nothing to do with mining, found my first victim.

Ps. update did no good, still way too bad to play. Losing costumers MA. 64k total loot mining so far and it's in the +. Have fun miners who still mine.

S4400Salvation said:

Ps. update did no good, still way too bad to play. Losing costumers MA. 64k total loot mining so far and it's in the +. Have fun miners who still mine.

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Well, they can do it without VU's actually. Like resources distribution too - there is no need to change anything client-side, it's just server-side changes.

And planetary, even before VU - I already see changes. They do it very slow, but they do. I have no more strings of similar size claims, they different, etc. Instead of one "large" per run I getting four or five of them.

I hope it's dawn of HoFs, joy, fun, MU-swings. And sunset of stupid ecofags!

Afraid to say i am not convinced with the "small" changes they make overtime, i rather just wait till its more solid then it is in it's current state, did some test runs and they were without a doubt the same stuff i have been seeing the last couple of months. Back then without the knowdledge i have now i sunked load of peds into it, and it kept asking for more like a bottomless pit, so why continue with this vicious circle?

FallenAngel said:

check my tracker

and to the people suggesting there should be a slider like in crafting, you are idiots, i cant put it any other way.

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Calling somebody idiot without one word of declaration makes yourself an idiot

We actually had very diffent settings with different hitrates, claim-sizes and even finder-ranges and it dosnt take to much math to transform that in a stepless-slidermode. But what do I care - I simply avoid mining when its neither fun or profitable like it is now.

+1 for the old MINING loot distribution
Avatar: Bondrea Zeus Andrei

strash said:

i guess it just takes more work to find these areas.....

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got maps???

If there is a WILL there is A WAY...

i wish i could show you that i could do it with amps.......... L version still but i don't want to bother with it.... well you know why...

Rutabaga said:

Why would anyone bother paying extra markup for a mining amp when they can just use a slider?

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You don't get it, right?

I'll try to be as pedagogic as I can (I know I'm not that good of explaning, but I'll make a try).


First, mining amps adds a multiplication factor to your deposits.

If you use a "x2" amp, then when you've found a 5 ped raw deposit, you're getting a 10 ped deposit to dig. When you've found a 10 ped raw deposit, you're getting a 20 ped deposit to dig.
If you use a "x5" amp, then when you've found a 5 ped raw deposit, you're getting a 25 ped deposit to dig.

That's how amps work (right?).

Ok, now the example of my "sensitivity switch" (as you call "slider"):
If you set it to High Sensitivity, as an example, you get following deposits:
0-2-1-1-1-0-0-0-0-4 -> You use 10 drops, you get 10 ped back.

If you set it to Low Sensitivity you get:
0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-10-0 -> You use 10 drops you get 10 ped back.

Let's say you support your mining by sweating. You can only afford 5 bombs.
With High Sensitivity, you get 5 ped back.
With Low Sensitivity you get 0 ped back. Or you're lucky and get 10 ped back.

You're a professional miner. You have thousands of PEDs to spend.
a) You just want to spend some time, maybe want to tiergrind finder or to gain skills. Or you want to mine in a new area: You use finder in High Sentitive mode.

b) You're a gambler. You want to use big amps and go for ATHs on asteroid: You use finder in Low Sensitivity Mode.

As for using residues to increase return in mining: If you can't tell the difference between a crafting machine and a finder you should get better glasses.


If you're still saying "It's going to ruin the amp market", then I just say "sigh". Gamblers can still use amps if they want and they would work as Before with sensitivity switch set the chosen way.
If you say "Only gamblers should be allowed to mine - any other way and mining amps will be out of work" then I say, as far as we know the mining amps Always have just add a multiplier. Either the cost of mining amps is justified or not. Either it's an advantage to mine "fast" or it isn't.

old system

Pantoffel Rock Tierchen

aia said:

Ok, now the example of my "sensitivity switch" (as you call "slider"):
If you set it to High Sensitivity, as an example, you get following deposits:
0-2-1-1-1-0-0-0-0-4 -> You use 10 drops, you get 10 ped back.

If you set it to Low Sensitivity you get:
0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-10-0 -> You use 10 drops you get 10 ped back.

Let's say you support your mining by sweating. You can only afford 5 bombs.
With High Sensitivity, you get 5 ped back.
With Low Sensitivity you get 0 ped back. Or you're lucky and get 10 ped back.

You're a professional miner. You have thousands of PEDs to spend.
a) You just want to spend some time, maybe want to tiergrind finder or to gain skills. Or you want to mine in a new area: You use finder in High Sentitive mode.

b) You're a gambler. You want to use big amps and go for ATHs on asteroid: You use finder in Low Sensitivity Mode.

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I must say your idea is very interesting. My experience with MindArk's "customer focus" (rather, lack of it) tells me they wont even consider it.

I truly wish they had a system like eve-online's CSM, where the developers actually talk to selected players who represent the community to request, suggest and discuss further updates and changes. That would be very healthy to EU...

c0m4ndo45 said:

I must say your idea is very interesting. My experience with MindArk's "customer focus" (rather, lack of it) tells me they wont even consider it.

I truly wish they had a system like eve-online's CSM, where the developers actually talk to selected players who represent the community to request, suggest and discuss further updates and changes. That would be very healthy to EU...

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Yeah. Now the question - who is the "selected players"? Those, who doesn't see elementary flaw in "slider" system?