VU 15 - "improvement" to decrease the MU even more aka eat some shrapnel, suckers

Not sure why you decided to take an aggressive stance. Most have realized that what has been done to Calypso (currently) is either incomplete or just shear laziness on the part of the "balancing" team. While I made 400ped doing eviscerators during WOF last night, out of the 1050ped, 920ped was shrapnel and ammo. Everything else was TT food and not a single tier component. That's just awful. And I did go back out after the event to hit eviscerators again but I had to stop even though I was getting minis because it was the same thing.. ammo and shrapnel on every mob and maybe 5 pec of extractors.

I decided to take an aggressive stance because this is 18 pages of whining.

Its ridiculous.

I've been around long enough to know when somebody is trying to game the system. This thread is nothing but that. He's heavily invested in a particular mob and is trying to slant public opinion in order to favor his own situation.

Sorry, but I dont like it when people try to manipulate situations. It shows a clear disregard for anyone involved but themselves.

Easy, he is unable to communicate in any other way. In his eyes we are all dumb and he is god almighty, tons of literature on the subject. No offense Magyar, but your hostility is unwarranted.

Actually it's more warranted than folks seem prepared to admit. Somebody needs to step up and say no. Dont you ever get tired of people on this forum telling half truths in attempts to serve their own interests?

I get tired of it.

Oh, for the record I dont think you're all dumb. I think you're a bunch of selfish, petty jerks. There's a difference. I think you're smart enough to constantly be attempting to 1 up each other and a large portion of this forum politicking that goes on is reflective of that.

I think that's a pretty fair assessment, frankly.

Given that I have no particular interest in winning a popularity contest with a bunch of people I really dont like to begin with, I have no problem pointing out when somebody is attempting to manipulate, coerce, or deceive you. It's your choice what to do after that. I really dont care. Though I would prefer if the game stuck around, that's up to you. At this point I am largely disengaged. I play when I want, and I do what I want. I've dissolved my society and any other social interests in this product.
 
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I agree completely with Magyar, the thread is a thinly veiled attempt to manipulate public opinion for the sole gain of a single avatar.

Has happened many times before on these boards.
 
I think it's pretty clear the OP took this mob as example becouse he hunts them a lot & can give exact numbers in the future & compare them to the past wich would be the most accurate way to go... but hey.. think what you want
 
Lol so the only avatar with the big turnover out there honest enough to post every run results of the last 2years or so and be open about who is playing the avatar is the greatest manipulator of all time and lying about the returns I get.
Listen to yourself we all know you got a personal issue with me and forum history to see it. Like das said and first post stated, Osseo was just an example cause that's what I hunt. Making all maturities loot same and reducing 60% of loot to tt will lower the MU I'm convinced my hunting log will reflect it.
 
Btw even if Kim's logic was right I don't really get how artificially limiting the resources availability thus increasing their MU in any way help the economy. If the MU goes up crafters products MU increases so hunters and miners pay more.
Sorry but I find this whole change deeply illogical from making all maturities loot same to limiting resource drops and leaving normal ammo in loot while stopping explosives and introducing shrapnels.
 
Im so curious from this discussion, I do believe this change is good but have no hard facts to back up my thoughts.


I will start tracking my returns to see more precisely to see how Im doing and if I get the time I will share my results here aswell!

I have a VERY different playstyle from smilgs so to compare would be very fun :)
 
I think it's pretty clear the OP took this mob as example becouse he hunts them a lot & can give exact numbers in the future & compare them to the past wich would be the most accurate way to go... but hey.. think what you want

He OWNS the Osseo LA's, his concern is solely based on the fear that they will not be hunted as much following this change, perhaps if hunters go elsewhere for Light Metal Plating? I dont believe the OP gives a toss about anyone else.

It is a fear I believe is unfounded anyway, given the good markup available on Heart Oil, but whatever..

As far as I am concerned, it's too early to tell whether this move by MA will be sucessful or not, in terms of improving hunting MU, but it is at least a move in the right direction.

As with all changes MA make, there will be winners and losers, OP may end up being a loser, he IS entitled to be pissed off about that, but that dont make the changes bad per se. :wise:
 
A question:

What other mob than Osseo, drops Heart Oil ?
 
Btw even if Kim's logic was right I don't really get how artificially limiting the resources availability thus increasing their MU in any way help the economy. If the MU goes up crafters products MU increases so hunters and miners pay more.
Sorry but I find this whole change deeply illogical from making all maturities loot same to limiting resource drops and leaving normal ammo in loot while stopping explosives and introducing shrapnels.

It's meant to help economy by alowing more ppl to make their cut on the way from loot to product.
Imagine if loot consist only from peds and/or 100% MU items = in this scenario all items needed for craft ) are easily aviabe for crafters but hunters have hard times and traders profesion not even exist

If loot consist only from 10X% MU components fluidity ( counted as aviablity for crafters ) to abotains them is lower, wchich reflect on prices of it's theitr product, but at the same time hunters, and traders can earn something. Crafters are concuring among themselves so therefore they won'' skyrocket prices in the process.

All new system needs now is stabilise amount of MU loot to no mU loot, and not messing with it for some time. Also removing from loot ammo and other TT items as we have sharapnels now would help a bit.
 
The reason for not doing this is quite trivial I believe (Kim said somewhere in this thread it is not planned to do it). Before the release, 2k ammo bought in tt and doing a run, you got around 300-400 peds of ammo type you are using (assumption, have not measured the exact figure but I know it has changed since to shoot until no ammo takes more decay) so if shooting until all ammo spent you actually turned over 2350 peds or so.
After the release, it's 500-600 peds of ammo type you are using. So you have to shoot longer to spend all ammo.
If MA would replace all tt ammo with shrapnels, people who just take X ammo and shoot until it's all gone, would do less turnover (quite a lot less).
Also removing from loot ammo and other TT items as we have sharapnels now would help a bit.
 
Look, I provided 4 arguments below which are not related only to osseos, it was not meant as a whining thread since those in general don't provide valid arguments only whine. Osseo was a freaking EXAMPLE since I know their loots before vs. after and return figures very well. They were never a great MU mob, as said 3.68% MU before the change.
Yes I am not happy for my LAs but it was more related to making stackables same on all maturities which makes one of my LAs obsolete (quite founded right).
I would prefer if people indeed discussed on my arguments not on how all of this is a personal vendetta and whining thread. Will put them here and update first thread to make it more clear.
1. My assumption is MU will actually go down on stackables before and after the release for ALL MOBS, reasons are trivial
a. 101% on shrapnels is not MU by definition (i.e. it is not added value paid by other people), it is tt food
b. there is more regular ammo thrown (judging by more decay on same tt ammo after release)
c. no more hofs with oils as used to be
d. the MU increase which you could have in theory on some stackables is quite insignificant and if it indeed goes up, the effect on economy should be bad since it increases cost to manufacture​
2. Other planets still have the old loot variety (except that they have also stackables), time to change = unknown
3. All maturities are now same stackable loot, what is the point of the higher maturities now?
4. The post of MA seemed to suggest we will go back to old days where the grass was greener and stackables sold better. Main reasons for low MU are the following (imho), you can't really fiddle with only with availability to get some positive effects, they are both part of the equation.
a. low player-base and activity in general
b. high availability + alternatives on other planets
He OWNS the Osseo LA's, his concern is solely based on the fear that they will not be hunted as much following this change, perhaps if hunters go elsewhere for Light Metal Plating? I dont believe the OP gives a toss about anyone else.
 
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1. My assumption is MU will actually go down on stackables before and after the release for ALL MOBS, reasons are trivial
a. 101% on shrapnels is not MU by definition (i.e. it is not added value paid by other people), it is tt food
b. there is more regular ammo thrown (judging by more decay on same tt ammo after release)
c. no more hofs with oils as used to be
d. the MU increase which you could have in theory on some stackables is quite insignificant and if it indeed goes up, the effect on economy should be bad since it increases cost to manufacture​
2. Other planets still have the old loot variety (except that they have also stackables), time to change = unknown
3. All maturities are now same stackable loot, what is the point of the higher maturities now?
4. The post of MA seemed to suggest we will go back to old days where the grass was greener and stackables sold better. Main reasons for low MU are the following (imho), you can't really fiddle with only with availability to get some positive effects, they are both part of the equation.
a. low player-base and activity in general
b. high availability + alternatives on other planets


to 1:
actually we can already see slightly increase of MU on close to TT stackables
to a:
It is definitive markup for the hunter using the universal ammo, doesn´t matter where it comes from, so it is not TT food for those who loot it and use it.
to b:
agree, the total amount ammo+shrapel seems a bit high, I am for reducing comon ammo drop amount, and replacing the rest of it with 100% explosives (actualy it seems calypso don´t drop explo anymore)
to c:
Thats good. The number of crafters are lot less than hunters. The small amount of crafters (compared to hunters) can´t cycle all the big HoF oils looted by hunters. That crashed the MUs. Big HoFs consist mainly of items or if not items 100% TT food is helthy to keep MUs, market will not be flooded with stackables.
to d:
increased MU on crafted items, maybe. Crafters need to compete against looted items, so the droprate of items got bigger impact on the crafted items MU than cost to craft. Beside that the use of residue in crafting could keep the MUs on items relative low. On high TT items main source of full TT is generated by residue used.

to 2.:
agree, thats bad. PP other planets need to adjust loot aswell

to 3.:
as I got it from Kims post, higher maturity got higher chance to loot that materials, beside that higher maturity better chance to global (drop items) instead stackables.

to 4.:
exactly that. We had pure PED in loot in the past, the TT food (ammo) is what was pure PED in the past. (no markup possible!) or does anybody sell/buy ammo with MU ?


And now again:

Any other mob known that actually drops heart oil?
Thats a question you should be very interested to get an answer.
If there is no real alternative to Osseo to get Heart Oil, your Osseos are still very valuable mob for your LAs.

Well I am sure there will be other mobs that drop heart oil too. Question is what mob. Maybe its easyer to hunt Osseo over the other options to get it.
 
1. we all agree I guess usable stackables will go up in MU eventually, my point was that in total, the hunting loot MU will decrease since the MU increase can't cover up for the rest - and other professions (read activity levels) will suffer for the less availability. same as for example tiering costs going up will slow it down.
1.a. Can't agree by definition. It is very simple, MU is amount paid on top of tt to a good that another person is selling. Since MA can reduce tt return proportionally, this 101% doesn't mean anything unless we know how the loot system is working (which we don't)
1.b. Kim already said and I explained why MA would not want to do it (less hunting turnover is what they fear)
1.c. I don't think so imho MU was mainly crashed by other planet partners starting to drop these oils in large quantities in their events AND by the activity decrease.
1.d. The whole ecosystem must be healthy for it to work, thinking in silos is a problem - if one of the professions get screwed, the others are impacted.
3. There was diversity in loots before the change, because the maturities were different. You could chose your mobs and maturities indeed wisely. Now it will be made more brainless activity, all will know the high MU mobs and only those will be hunted until the MU crashes again, rinse repeat. The fact hunters can maybe get more oils from higher maturities doesn't really compare to the number of choices before.
4. My point was different, to simplify: MA introduced planet partners and did not assure growth, thus we are here. Screwing with just stackables availability won't return the good old times...

As for heart oil, I am not so interested (though Kim said I believe no loot type will be there for just 1 mob). Price of heart oil is related not only to availability but what it is used for. If price increases to an unhealthy level due to availability, alternatives might become cheaper. Trying to look at the bigger picture.
to 1:
actually we can already see slightly increase of MU on close to TT stackables
to a:
It is definitive markup for the hunter using the universal ammo, doesn´t matter where it comes from, so it is not TT food for those who loot it and use it.
to b:
agree, the total amount ammo+shrapel seems a bit high, I am for reducing comon ammo drop amount, and replacing the rest of it with 100% explosives (actualy it seems calypso don´t drop explo anymore)
to c:
Thats good. The number of crafters are lot less than hunters. The small amount of crafters (compared to hunters) can´t cycle all the big HoF oils looted by hunters. That crashed the MUs. Big HoFs consist mainly of items or if not items 100% TT food is helthy to keep MUs, market will not be flooded with stackables.
to d:
increased MU on crafted items, maybe. Crafters need to compete against looted items, so the droprate of items got bigger impact on the crafted items MU than cost to craft. Beside that the use of residue in crafting could keep the MUs on items relative low. On high TT items main source of full TT is generated by residue used.

to 2.:
agree, thats bad. PP other planets need to adjust loot aswell

to 3.:
as I got it from Kims post, higher maturity got higher chance to loot that materials, beside that higher maturity better chance to global (drop items) instead stackables.

to 4.:
exactly that. We had pure PED in loot in the past, the TT food (ammo) is what was pure PED in the past. (no markup possible!) or does anybody sell/buy ammo with MU ?


And now again:

Any other mob known that actually drops heart oil?
Thats a question you should be very interested to get an answer.
If there is no real alternative to Osseo to get Heart Oil, your Osseos are still very valuable mob for your LAs.

Well I am sure there will be other mobs that drop heart oil too. Question is what mob. Maybe its easyer to hunt Osseo over the other options to get it.
 
1. we all agree I guess usable stackables will go up in MU eventually, my point was that in total, the hunting loot MU will decrease since the MU increase can't cover up for the rest - and other professions (read activity levels) will suffer for the less availability. same as for example tiering costs going up will slow it down.
We need to wait some time to see the long time effects of the new droprates onto markups.
Actually it looks like you are right, point is how much will MU on stackables rise.
And we have to wait and see if droprate of looted items got adjusted (lowered), as this could have an serious impact on MU of items and MU of crafted items aswell. Actually no coment about that, and not that easy to analyse than doing it with stackables.

1.c. I don't think so imho MU was mainly crashed by other planet partners starting to drop these oils in large quantities in their events AND by the activity decrease.

If there is 10+ pages adrenal oil at buyouts all less than 102% in auction, its definately a huge oversupply, it really doesn´t matter what caused that oversupply. At least is removing full oil globals/HoFs from loot (replaced with ammo) an attempt to solve that oversupply problem that could work.

1.d. The whole ecosystem must be healthy for it to work, thinking in silos is a problem - if one of the professions get screwed, the others are impacted.

Correct!
Sidenote: I don´t think crafters got screwed by higher markups, it worked in the past with higher markups, it can still work. Crafter still got option to focus on using mainly mined materials, and less looted once.
Difficult to see how crafting will be affected. Maybe less Simple I whatever crafting, and more other stuff.

3. There was diversity in loots before the change, because the maturities were different. You could chose your mobs and maturities indeed wisely. Now it will be made more brainless activity, all will know the high MU mobs and only those will be hunted until the MU crashes again, rinse repeat. The fact hunters can maybe get more oils from higher maturities doesn't really compare to the number of choices before.
Partly agree, personally I would like to see diversity in maturity (f.e. low mob: youngs-old drop muscle, provider-alpha drop eye, oldalpha-stalker drop thyroid). We would have option just changing maturity to get other oils, instead changing mob.

True only the good markups will be hunted. What impact?
Well good markup will slowly drop (more supply), while low markup will raise (less supply).
Very likely we will see more waves in MU and more ofen need to adjust our hunting to actual market situation (what smart players had to do in the past, and still should have to do)

4. My point was different, to simplify: MA introduced planet partners and did not assure growth, thus we are here. Screwing with just stackables availability won't return the good old times...

Agree. We need growth!
PP have same responsibility as MA has, to promote EU in a way that playerbase could grow.
Its easy to say MA should have done this or that.
PP have responsibility to make their planets attract new players, not screwing players off other planets by offering better eco items at TT and such things that already have happened.
MA did adjusted all TTs in the universe, first step into right direction.

Don´t know if that happens, but all PP should sit at one table from time to time, together with MA and have healthy discussion about future plans and development of single planets aswell as the whole universe.
At such meetings, impacts on economy of PP introduction of items/events/event rewards could be discussed from different angles. Same counts for plattform updates, done by MA.
 
I wonder how long the growth in MU will last on an oil as soon as an event mob arrives, def. now that they will all drop the same oil
 
The amounts of oil that are thrown are very low compared to before, oil hofs are not possible at all based on experience and what Kim said. E.g. migration event will not be the same since for now main part of it was the good oils (spleen and kidney to name them).
I wonder how long the growth in MU will last on an oil as soon as an event mob arrives, def. now that they will all drop the same oil
 
I'm going to put this new loot bluntly...

I get to burn up a gun (L) and have jack shit to show for it when I am done.
 
The portion of TT food gets progressively higher based on the size of the loot, from around 50% up to a maximum of somewhere around 90-95%.

ROFLOL! I should send my medicall bill to mindark cause I just fell off my chair laughting so much off how you think this would improve the game!

Are you trying to get rid off those damn annoying customers now? I know that customers sucks. Much better to run a company without them so you don't have to have support department and all that stuff. Most efficient ways of cutting expenses!
 
ROFLOL! I should send my medicall bill to mindark cause I just fell off my chair laughting so much off how you think this would improve the game!

Are you trying to get rid off those damn annoying customers now? I know that customers sucks. Much better to run a company without them so you don't have to have support department and all that stuff. Most efficient ways of cutting expenses!

If you knew game design you would know that was a good thing.. just saying :)
 
Since i saw that Red Bowtie incident their endgame has to be to file for Chapter Eleven.

That's lawsuit material if it happened to any other well known game, but i guess EU isn't that big so it's allowed.
How far can they stretch it is my question to them.
 
The reason for not doing this is quite trivial I believe (Kim said somewhere in this thread it is not planned to do it). Before the release, 2k ammo bought in tt and doing a run, you got around 300-400 peds of ammo type you are using (assumption, have not measured the exact figure but I know it has changed since to shoot until no ammo takes more decay) so if shooting until all ammo spent you actually turned over 2350 peds or so.
After the release, it's 500-600 peds of ammo type you are using. So you have to shoot longer to spend all ammo.
If MA would replace all tt ammo with shrapnels, people who just take X ammo and shoot until it's all gone, would do less turnover (quite a lot less).

easy fix is to do like many do (i do too) and just buy the ammo it takes to wear out the amp.
i know my A104 takes 19xx uses to be worn out so i bring that amount of ammo and hunt til its dead.

around :
600 ped ammo on LC-55
400 ped ammo on LC-200
180 ped ammo on p5a
see the point :)

Thats also the reason why i stopped using blp after this update because it takes to much ammo to wear down the amp so on a small run you would end up recycling your loot again.

i also never convert scrapnel to ammo until my hunt is over, then i use it on the next hunt.
 
thanks yea started to do this as well...
easy fix is to do like many do (i do too) and just buy the ammo it takes to wear out the amp.
i know my A104 takes 19xx uses to be worn out so i bring that amount of ammo and hunt til its dead.

around :
600 ped ammo on LC-55
400 ped ammo on LC-200
180 ped ammo on p5a
see the point :)

Thats also the reason why i stopped using blp after this update because it takes to much ammo to wear down the amp so on a small run you would end up recycling your loot again.

i also never convert scrapnel to ammo until my hunt is over, then i use it on the next hunt.
 
so by now, I assume:
1) the MU of all stackables has skyrocketed as expected
2) it now makes so much sense to hunt high maturity mobs since they are so much better than low maturities
3) the other planets have adopted the new loot system completely
right?
 
And
4)Kim is here to discuss latest "punch-in-face", as he did when crapnel was introduced.

OK, he is busy. So is everyone else who can keep atleast some comunication to show some reapect to players. Busy with what?
I can't understand this lack of communication and the way our economy is organized.
 
After nine years I've come to expect a lack of communication.
 
Lucky for me that I only have about 7000 points left to take on the Osse mission, after I'm done with the whole Osse mission.

I am aware that MA has done a big nerfs on Osse, but for me it has not been an economic issue but an honor to cope with one of the toughest missions in the game.:yay::yay::yay:
 
Dear Gewitter,

I addressed you in a inappropriate way earlier, which resulted in a bunch of negative reputation comments, so I figured I would try to straighten things up.

1. Your ideas lack backbone. You do not provide any valid information or have any kind of support presented behind your, at the least to say radical, ideas.

2. That the majority of people agree with you (which they most certainly do not) doesn't prove a thing. The majority of people are clueless. Most people lack knowledge in fundamental economics. Just ask around your friends about who they voted for in the last election and why and I guarantee you that no-one will reply "Well, I made an analysis of how the former politics turned out in reality by making a weighed comparison about the nations wealth compared to internationl conjunctures at said time. After that I decided to take a look at the countries current economic state, was there anything that would make the current politics beneficial for the time being due to global political state, or was it perhaps a uniform solution that could be applied at any time?"

3. Kim did most certainly not agree with your ideas, and here is his post quoted:



Edit:




You cannot pick stuff out of its context.

Edit 2:

You see people!? Understand my reaction yet!?!? No need to push the negrep that fast.

That is a note from Kim..
There's just no way that could ever happen. Its true that some items such as the mod fap should never have been introduced in the first place but now that they are here we cant alter them in such a way as it would completely erode the confidence players have for investing in their avatar, plus the fact that its a fundamentally flawed approach. What we can do to limit the effect of such items on the economy as a whole is to do things like item upgrade quests where two items can make one better etc, but on a completely voluntary basis.

Your word is bxxxsxxt if you remeber what MA did with the Portable TP- teleporters who MA forced the players to sell back to MA for 5000 peds, i remeber that a old player in here wrote about that here in the forum so whay dont force the players to sell back this Mod-Faps now.....
 
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