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Do you feel your overall loot returns have improved significantly?

Subject

  • Yes

    Votes: 64 27.7%

  • No

    Votes: 167 72.3%
  • Total voters
    231
Loot seems to be better in this new system. Stop complaining and force the loot out!
 
TheRock said:
Loot seems to be better in this new system. Stop complaining and force the loot out!
Click to expand...

DPP 3.25 & no rep costs. TT return 95%:wise:

Think its time for a break until they fixed it.
 
Amue said:
DPP 3.25 & no rep costs. TT return 95%:wise:

Think its time for a break until they fixed it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are optimal and having great results to me.
 
As most of other players who I spoke with (who I know tracked hunts before and after loot 2.0) I am doing much much worse than before...

This is either bug or MA is trying to kill the game. For sure they kill fun and motivation.


Eli said:
With all due respect, if your returns previously were 50-60%, it's hard to not improve...
Click to expand...

I do not believe anybody was 50-60% before, unless they shoot in air in pvp that is.
All people to state that never logged their runs, so don't believe this.
 
The loot is not better but I survive more longer in duration with the same sum, by cons on the same monster on 2 run of the same amount you can have a huge difference which is not logical.:scratch2:
For the 1st update it is not bad, the 2nd mini patch has broken the runs constant


M Rufen Power said:
Well I for one can't play with this mess of a loot system, I've sold all my gear and withdrawing all of my in-game funds out of the game.

I can't wait to see calypso land deed returns either lmao, I will now adjust my playing style to this new VU where I can't lose anything.

Let's see how the MA/ EU shareholders react to majority of the player base requesting withdrawals, better get in first before they've no funds.
Click to expand...

:lolup:
Learning the game is not what you told me after 14 years :rolleyes:
 
I noticed two type of people complaining about 2.0

First of all is the regular complainers. They were complaining before and they are still complaining now, nothing new on the western front. Usually, they are also using unoptimal setup and have anecdotal samples. I won't comment on these people because they're nothing more than a bad joke. And I could easily give examples, but I don't want to insult people, but if you read the forums you all know them very well by now.



Then there's the second category of people that are somehow the opposite of the first category; they're smart, they have invested in nice gear, they optimized they setup and their hunting habits, they're religiously tracking everything they do, they were the representing the definition of success in previous loot system, consistently having over 100% TT results. They were top 2%. They still are. Just that not by such a landslide anymore. They still have what most of us would call great results, but they are unhappy because they are not making TT profits anymore and now they have to pay for their game (entertainment) time like all of us. And they don't like that. They were used with us paying for their playtime and, eventually, also for their withdraws.

Here's a great example of such a player:

Amue said:
DPP 3.25 & no rep costs. TT return 95%:wise:

Think its time for a break until they fixed it.
Click to expand...

I'm convinced that any of the bottom 98% players, like me, would be happy with such results. Yet for him is a reason to withdraw... if so, then all I can say is Vaya con Dios... don't let the door slam you on your way out and I promise that I will for sure not miss you taking my money any longer. Probably none of the other 98%.

And if all your friends are complaining, that is probably because people make friends with alike people, so most probably your friends are in the same top 2%, have the same kind of uber setups like you and experienced the same problems as you... going from 10x% return rates to 9x% return rates and feeling that something is wrong. For myself, that I only have regular, average, low or mid level friends, with regular setups, that don't cost an arm and a leg, I see mostly only people happy with the new return rates (that went up from high 8x% to low 9x%). If you want to get an impression about return worlds in the "real world", get down from your ivory tower for once and actually take your time to see how the regular people are doing.

I am yet to see anyone with a high enough sample (let's say at least 5k mobs) and less than 90% return rates after 2.0. If you have experienced something like that or you know someone that did, please show the numbers to us and I'll retract everything I said.



TL; DR: 9x% percent return rate is a normal, even good return rate, which would let you recycle your money quite a lot of times and give you hours and hours of entertainment for your money, not a bug and not a catastrophe how some you're painting it; it's only normal that we all contribute to server costs and pay for our entertainment. It's just a matter of having realistic expectations or not... expecting to play a game and profit is just not realistic.
 
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wizz said:
Wall of Text.
Click to expand...

I only hunt markup mobs and fouls are not one of them and have already completed their 5 stage quest.

Unlike you I have DPS supporters using the exact same setup so, you can imagine the losses multiplied.

I tried team hunting (dps support), I have tried solo hunting all with markup in mind all 80% TT returns.

I have hunted up till the point where I have lost all of my surplus peds I've managed to previously gain.

I really doubt CLD returns could compensate -50 per run so I'll have to adjust my play style accordingly.

In the sense that I will not require the Adj Res Chip to hunt mobs with my left over gear or higher dps.

Do you seriously think I wanted to sell my gear withdraw funds and rage quite out of the game, really?

What's disappointing is how MA treat us like beta testers and have to pay for it, is stupidity gone mad.

I am not asking for anything extravagant in loot I just want to know that play eco is a sure way to win.

At the moment that is no longer looking possible and same goes for some of my howtosurvive group.
 
Vagrant said:
Sounds like you are optimal and having great results to me.
Click to expand...

The guy is using 90%+ efficiency and you reckon 95% TT returns is acceptable? My spreadsheet suggests that after auction fees average markup boils down to just 4%. So I would need 96.5% at minimum to break even! He should easily be able to achieve 98%+ with that efficiency rating imo.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
As most of other players who I spoke with (who I know tracked hunts before and after loot 2.0) I am doing much much worse than before...

This is either bug or MA is trying to kill the game. For sure they kill fun and motivation.
Click to expand...

It is no longer fun to hunt knowing that I am going to take a beating... hence the withdrawal.
Loot has not improved at all for majority of the player base, look at all the summer sales atm!
 
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morfoc said:
:lolup:. Learning the game is not what you told me after 14 years :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Game is fundamentally the same :rolleyes:, only now you need more peds to survive 80% runs. So hunting has now become Mining 2:0 with how volatile returns can get similar to mining :laugh:. Try surviving that! :smoke:
 
M Rufen Power said:
I am not asking for anything extravagant in loot I just want to know that play eco is a sure way to win.

At the moment that is no longer looking possible and same goes for some of my howtosurvive group.
Click to expand...

M Rufen Power said:
The guy is using 90%+ efficiency and you reckon 95% TT returns is acceptable? My spreadsheet suggests that after auction fees average markup boils down to just 4%. So I would need 96.5% at minimum to break even! He should easily be able to achieve 98%+ with that efficiency rating imo.
Click to expand...

That's exactly where I think you're wrong.

Playing eco was, is and will probably always be the way to play.

But eco should only get you so far, allowing you to make your deposits last longer, to get more entertainment value (more hours) out of your money, not to allow you to break even or profit.

In the moment when some players are doing this, it puts pressure on the other players to not only pay for their own expenses, but also for the expenses of those other players (and eventually also for their profits).

And, guess what, those people will not be willing to do so indefinitely. You say you are not willing to pay for your own share of expenses and want to break even or profit; then why you consider that other people should be willing to pay not only for their own shares but also for yours? That's simply not realistic.

And if anyone has to rage quit the game who do you think is better to do it (as in better for the company, for the economy)? Player A who used to be a net withdrawer, making profits and taking them out of game or player B who was a net depositor, bringing money in the game?



M Rufen Power said:
It is no longer fun to hunt knowing that I am going to take a beating... hence the withdrawal.
Loot has not improved at all for majority of the player base, look at all the summer sales atm!
Click to expand...

Looking at the summer sales I see exactly this... quite a few top 2% players, that were using to make a net profit, are now quitting; haven't seen any major sellouts on mid level gear (if, for anything, the MU on improved ares which is a low/mid level ring has quite abruptly climbed since 2.0).
 
Just remember that in the loot 2.0 follow up MA said (which I will slightly rephrase):

"Optimal loot is not quantity of loot, it's what you can loot".

To me that means you need to be setup to optimum "efficiency" (renamed from eco), to be able to loot say unlimited bits of armour or other stuff.

So basically 98% of the community now have the opportunity to loot items they probably previously couldn't loot, but now can.

LOOT 2.0, has nothing to do with return value.

What that really means is; MA 'implied' that loot 2 would be interpreted to what they knew we would think it meant, even though they knew it meant something else.

Rick



EDIT: I've long suspected we're set on some sort of ped reduction curve that takes into account any MU on sales. I was doing ok low level taming, then I sold a spare hog I had in store for 150 ped, and it turned even worse. Last weekend was horrid.

One of the reasons I do taming is I'm 100% convinced (with 10 years experience) that skill gain in the field "matters a great deal", (it has a huge impact on return value) and I suspect MA were turning off my skill gain pets. I know they do it, because when I try to show pet status while taming, it shows an error. I'm watching you MA :)

Anyway f*** it, I switched my bankroll into compet deeds. I'm out for a while.

Rick
 
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DoA said:
And, guess what, those people will not be willing to do so indefinitely. You say you are not willing to pay for your own share of expenses and want to break even or profit; then why you consider that other people should be willing to pay not only for their own shares but also for yours? That's simply not realistic.
Click to expand...

Let me simplify this for you, I am unwilling to let MA take my hard earned peds to hand it to people who are unwilling to use their brain. That just is not realistic, people who use their brain should be compensated vs people who don't and this even applies in the real world. Bad decisions should = bad results. So why not good decisions = better result? Your logic is illocal at best DoA and I am not the only one who feels this way. Why invest in a 5K heal chip when using armor and some range would do?
 
M Rufen Power said:
I only hunt markup mobs and fouls are not one of them and have already completed their 5 stage quest.

Unlike you I have DPS supporters using the exact same setup so, you can imagine the losses multiplied.

I tried team hunting (dps support), I have tried solo hunting all with markup in mind all 80% TT returns.

I have hunted up till the point where I have lost all of my surplus peds I've managed to previously gain.

I really doubt CLD returns could compensate -50 per run so I'll have to adjust my play style accordingly.

In the sense that I will not require the Adj Res Chip to hunt mobs with my left over gear or higher dps.

Do you seriously think I wanted to sell my gear withdraw funds and rage quite out of the game, really?

What's disappointing is how MA treat us like beta testers and have to pay for it, is stupidity gone mad.

I am not asking for anything extravagant in loot I just want to know that play eco is a sure way to win.

At the moment that is no longer looking possible and same goes for some of my howtosurvive group.
Click to expand...

Let me first tell you that I respect your posts, maybe that's why I was really surprised to see your sales thread.

Its funny to see you write posts, that you normally commented on by pointing to your blogs.

You wrote before that you always made a profit with hunting (which is unhealthy for the game) and now seem to lose with 80% returns.

I guess you were one of those 2% then where guaranteed returns no longer apply.

I feel your pain, but maybe now you understand all those folks you commented on earlier.

Don't get me wrong, I always agreed on your hunting style, but I think it still works, at least it does for me. As long as I hunt small, I nearly play for free.
I don't believe you get 80% constant returns with resto/a101 hunting.
1 global is enough to totally tip the balance.
I had a 76 ped foul young, that was enough to compensate quite a few runs. But I guess i don't need to tell you that ;)
 
M Rufen Power said:
Let me simplify this for you, I am unwilling to let MA take my hard earned peds to hand it to people who are unwilling to use their brain. That just is not realistic, people who use their brain should be compensated vs people who don't and this even applies in the real world. Bad decisions should = bad results. So why not good decisions = better result? Your logic is illocal at best DoA and I am not the only one who feels this way. Why invest in a 5K heal chip when using armor and some range would do?
Click to expand...

If you look at your poll, this does not just apply to me. Majority of players are not seeing improved returns, regardless of how eco their setup were before, whatever worked now does not work. Simple.
 
wizz said:
I don't believe you get 80% constant returns with resto/a101 hunting.
1 global is enough to totally tip the balance.
I had a 76 ped foul young, that was enough to compensate quite a few runs. But I guess i don't need to tell you that ;)
Click to expand...

You think I have been idle since the update? Check my tracker, I've only had 1 global since VU and have taken a beating and lost around 230-250 of my TT profits, not willing to lose anymore frankly!

About 70% of my runs were all losses and the ones that were not losses had small gains past 100%, but that did not of set the other runs which in Loot 1:0 would happen more often, plus no globals.

Just remember, everyone before Loot 2:0 had the same chance to profiting TT wise if they just followed the principles which I laid out in my HowToSurvive thread which started out in early 2015!

So now after Loot 2:0 I am literally forced to hunt mobs that fall in line with my setups dps to mob HP levels, and there arent many markup options based on that limiting factor so why bother hunting?
 
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DoA said:
I noticed two type of people complaining about 2.0

First of all is the regular complainers. They were complaining before and they are still complaining now, nothing new on the western front. Usually, they are also using unoptimal setup and have anecdotal samples. I won't comment on these people because they're nothing more than a bad joke. And I could easily give examples, but I don't want to insult people, but if you read the forums you all know them very well by now.



Then there's the second category of people that are somehow the opposite of the first category; they're smart, they have invested in nice gear, they optimized they setup and their hunting habits, they're religiously tracking everything they do, they were the representing the definition of success in previous loot system, consistently having over 100% TT results. They were top 2%. They still are. Just that not by such a landslide anymore. They still have what most of us would call great results, but they are unhappy because they are not making TT profits anymore and now they have to pay for their game (entertainment) time like all of us. And they don't like that. They were used with us paying for their playtime and, eventually, also for their withdraws.

Here's a great example of such a player:



I'm convinced that any of the bottom 98% players, like me, would be happy with such results. Yet for him is a reason to withdraw... if so, then all I can say is Vaya con Dios... don't let the door slam you on your way out and I promise that I will for sure not miss you taking my money any longer. Probably none of the other 98%.

And if all your friends are complaining, that is probably because people make friends with alike people, so most probably your friends are in the same top 2%, have the same kind of uber setups like you and experienced the same problems as you... going from 10x% return rates to 9x% return rates and feeling that something is wrong. For myself, that I only have regular, average, low or mid level friends, with regular setups, that don't cost an arm and a leg, I see mostly only people happy with the new return rates (that went up from high 8x% to low 9x%). If you want to get an impression about return worlds in the "real world", get down from your ivory tower for once and actually take your time to see how the regular people are doing.

I am yet to see anyone with a high enough sample (let's say at least 5k mobs) and less than 90% return rates after 2.0. If you have experienced something like that or you know someone that did, please show the numbers to us and I'll retract everything I said.



TL; DR: 9x% percent return rate is a normal, even good return rate, which would let you recycle your money quite a lot of times and give you hours and hours of entertainment for your money, not a bug and not a catastrophe how some you're painting it; it's only normal that we all contribute to server costs and pay for our entertainment. It's just a matter of having realistic expectations or not... expecting to play a game and profit is just not realistic.
Click to expand...



Oh boy, you dont know me. I really dont know why u think i make a lot of money ingame???
Before 2.0 i was hunting Bristlehog Stalkers with EST and adj. Restoration Chip + Adjusted Hero (lv 88).
I had great results. I was able to play for free but dont make a lot of peds. That was okay for me.

Now i am using imk2 (lv 90) + improved Resto Chip + Ares Aug
So as u see i investet a lot of money and i dont have good results. I can only survive because of mushrooms and my Bankroll.

The last 3 days i was trying Bristles again and loose more than 850 ped (3 globals in 12 hours). Never loose so much before 2.0

The problem is i have a lot of minis but no globals.


90% of the people play the game because they dream of uber items and make some money and if its not possible anymore so mindark is loosing there customers.
 
jesus christ... so you guys complain all the fucking time that you cant do anymore what you used to do?
guess what. theres a reason why its called loot 2.0. there obviously has been a change and either you guys are too lazy or stupid or both to try and adapt. they finally did something and it seems to be rather good. now go out there and try to learn. looks like big bankroll doesnt set you up for instant tt profit anymore so people have to start using their brain again. and thats a good change.
 
Amue said:
90% of the people play the game because they dream of uber items and make some money and if its not possible anymore so mindark is loosing there customers.
Click to expand...

And herein lies the biggest problem. The expectations.
Not having these expectations have made me survive the game for this long.

Hunting = playing
Playing cost money.

"Providing services" = working
Working makes money.

And it for sure is possible to make money here. But not without using brains and just autoclicking mobs.

And THAT is what I like about this game. But yeah, im well aware that that is just my opinion.
 
Me Really Never said:
jesus christ... so you guys complain all the fucking time that you cant do anymore what you used to do?
guess what. theres a reason why its called loot 2.0. there obviously has been a change and either you guys are too lazy or stupid or both to try and adapt. they finally did something and it seems to be rather good. now go out there and try to learn. looks like big bankroll doesnt set you up for instant tt profit anymore so people have to start using their brain again. and thats a good change.
Click to expand...

I am not complaining sir, I am stating facts! I do have a brain and have been using it ever since. Now due to all the new changes/ restrictions imposed whether accidental or not, has caused a reaction for me to withdraw. I will be using my brain to work things out, but like when I first started HowToSurvive out, but now at a much lower level, I might even go back to hunting punies while I work this **** out and minimise the losses. But then how does that help the game out and the community of players, let alone instead of calling us all besotted morons?
 
M Rufen Power said:
I am not complaining sir, I am stating facts! I do have a brain and have been using it ever since. Now due to all the new changes/ restrictions imposed whether accidental or not, has caused a reaction for me to withdraw. I will be using my brain to work things out, but like when I first started HowToSurvive out, but now at a much lower level, I might even go back to hunting punies while I work this **** out and minimise the losses. But then how does that help the game out and the community of players, let alone instead of calling us all besotted morons?
Click to expand...

Well, you are actually complaining a bit :rolleyes:

Also, nobody called you a moron.

And you WILL regret selling your resto.

So either remove your link from your signature, or straighten your back and pick up your arms again!
:wtg:
 
wizz said:
And herein lies the biggest problem. The expectations.
Not having these expectations have made me survive the game for this long.

Hunting = playing
Playing cost money.

"Providing services" = working
Working makes money.

And it for sure is possible to make money here. But not without using brains and just autoclicking mobs.

And THAT is what I like about this game. But yeah, im well aware that that is just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying but when I first joined the game, the emphasis was on gaining markup to block out the TT losses. Prior to Loot 2:0 I found out how this was possible, but how is this even possible now? No clue. Why hunt now knowing you will get less than optimal loot accompanied by low markups via hunting said mobs?
 
wizz said:
Well, you are actually complaining a bit :rolleyes:

Also, nobody called you a moron.

And you WILL regret selling your resto.

So either remove your link from your signature, or straighten your back and pick up your arms again!
:wtg:
Click to expand...
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I have not complained. I am on topic by explaining how I feel loot has not improved, if by addressing the topic this makes me a complainer, then I'm guilty. But I do not regret selling the Res chip 1 bit, what I regret is depositing to get it in the first place, as I recall I was actually profiting quite well ever before getting one, so may return to that hunting practice.
 
M Rufen Power said:
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I have not complained. I am on topic by explaining how I feel loot has not improved, if by addressing the topic this makes me a complainer, then I'm guilty. But I do not regret selling the Res chip 1 bit, what I regret is depositing to get it in the first place.
Click to expand...

Im sorry to read this sour reaction.
Regret is bad.
You had fun right? You sold the chip for more then you bought it, right?

So why the regrets?
 
wizz said:
Im sorry to read this sour reaction.
Regret is bad.
You had fun right? You sold the chip for more then you bought it, right?

So why the regrets?
Click to expand...

As I now have to wait 10 weeks to hit my real life account. So not much regret rather more annoyance than anything. But yes, I had fun using it, sold it for more than purchased, even made reseller happy!
 
DoA said:
That's exactly where I think you're wrong.

Playing eco was, is and will probably always be the way to play.

But eco should only get you so far, allowing you to make your deposits last longer, to get more entertainment value (more hours) out of your money, not to allow you to break even or profit.

In the moment when some players are doing this, it puts pressure on the other players to not only pay for their own expenses, but also for the expenses of those other players (and eventually also for their profits).

And, guess what, those people will not be willing to do so indefinitely. You say you are not willing to pay for your own share of expenses and want to break even or profit; then why you consider that other people should be willing to pay not only for their own shares but also for yours? That's simply not realistic.

And if anyone has to rage quit the game who do you think is better to do it (as in better for the company, for the economy)? Player A who used to be a net withdrawer, making profits and taking them out of game or player B who was a net depositor, bringing money in the game?





Looking at the summer sales I see exactly this... quite a few top 2% players, that were using to make a net profit, are now quitting; haven't seen any major sellouts on mid level gear (if, for anything, the MU on improved ares which is a low/mid level ring has quite abruptly climbed since 2.0).
Click to expand...


Stop to believe that you are know the game and play a little because I do not see you much ingame , you talk about loot before and after 2.0 but has you hunt?
You are new is you want to give advice to the elders who have already gone through several steps, concentrate on what you do in the game .:girl:
 
This is the forum for you:

A: How's your hunting returns?
B: Not bad, could be better, I'm struggling to hang in there.

A: So you're complaining.
B: Not really, I'm just honestly answering your question.

A: You're f***ing complaining, admit you're stupid
B: Why are you ranting at me, when you asked me my returns?

A: Did you change your setup to be more eco after loot 2:0?
B: Yep, it's the best setup I've ever ever ever had in game.

A: So you admit you 'was' stupid and now still stupid because you're losing.
B: So you didn't want me to give an honest answer to your original question then?

A: I just want an excuse to call as many players as a can total c***'s, it makes me feels all superior and good inside.
B: Why don't you actually deposit $100 and actually shoot something?

A: Because I will lose, I'm not hear to lose, I'm here to call you a stupid c***. That is my main concern.
B: Please just FO, I'm out, bye.


Rick
 
people seem to misunderstand "optimal loot" and actual loot tt value... despite MA clarifying it...
 
M Rufen Power said:
Let me simplify this for you, I am unwilling to let MA take my hard earned peds to hand it to people who are unwilling to use their brain. That just is not realistic, people who use their brain should be compensated vs people who don't and this even applies in the real world. Bad decisions should = bad results. So why not good decisions = better result? Your logic is illocal at best DoA and I am not the only one who feels this way. Why invest in a 5K heal chip when using armor and some range would do?
Click to expand...

Sure, I totally agree with you. People taking good decisions should be rewarded, and people taking bad decisions should be punished. But the difference in our vision is given by the magnitude of said rewards on punishments.

Far now good decisions were greatly rewarded, up to the point where said people were a liability to the game (ending up on net profits, so taking money out of the game, out of the economy) and bad decisions were greatly punished with losses too big to be supported.

What I think that MA aimed to do with this update was to just lower the gap. People taking good decisions would still be rewarded and do better than the people taking bad decisions, just that this would mean, for example, having 98% returns instead of their previous 102%, while people taking bad decisions would still be punished and do worse than the people taking good decisions, just that this would mean, for example, having 92% returns instead of their previous 88%.

So everyone was brought closer of the median value - smart people are still above and dumb/reckless people are still bellow, just that the gap between them was lowered. And no, MA is not taking your PEDs and handing them to someone else, just that, for the very first time in a long time, they're charging you too (like anyone else, actually less than most other people) for the entertainment you're receiving playing the game.

And, again, the real problem lies in the text I marked with red... that's a GAME, where you're supposed to come to relax, have fun and get entertained, not "work hard" as you said it.
 
RickEngland said:
This is the forum for you:

A: How's your hunting returns?
B: Not bad, could be better, I'm struggling to hang in there.

A: So you're complaining.
B: Not really, I'm just honestly answering your question.

A: You're f***ing complaining, admit you're stupid
B: Why are you ranting at me, when you asked me my returns?

A: Did you change your setup to be more eco after loot 2:0?
B: Yep, it's the best setup I've ever ever ever had in game.

A: So you admit you 'was' stupid and now still stupid because you're losing.
B: So you didn't want me to give an honest answer to your original question then?

A: I just want an excuse to call as many players as a can total c***'s, it makes me feels all superior and good inside.
B: Why don't you actually deposit $100 and actually shoot something?

A: Because I will lose, I'm not hear to lose, I'm here to call you a stupid c***. That is my main concern.
B: Please just FO, I'm out, bye.


Rick
Click to expand...
That has really made my day of being attacked much better. Thank you for such an honest reply!
 
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