Suggestion: Revitalize PvP. Make all players and vehicles lootable in all PvP zones!

Captain Jack

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There are a number of problems with PvP. I'll highlight just three of them.

1. In lootable PvP the risk-vs-reward is too high. Loot composition in PvP4 isn't high enough to justify the chance of getting looted - thus why it's dead.

2. In non-lootable PvP, the cost-vs-reward is too low. You can shoot someone at the rig over and over again and they just keep flying back.

3. As mentioned above, vehicles have opened the door to exploitation in PvP zones. You can kill someone over and over and they fly back in different vehicles every time, and then exploit the vehicles to make it cost prohibitive to keep shooting them.

I propose two relatively simple changes to incentivize action within PvP. No, I'm not talking about making it so that you lose all your stackables in all PvP zones, rather that players and vehicles behave like mobs when killed.

1. Add the same loot algorithm which applies to mobs to players, but make loot composition 100% shrapnel.
2. Add the same loot algorithm to vehicles, and make it so that when a vehicle is recalled it is considered dead for loot purposes.


By doing this, MindArk still gets revenue through the same mechanisms they do with hunting. I would venture to say that these changes would cause a significant increase in PvP participation, possibly to the degree that they would even make more from PvP than they do today. This would also open the door for significantly more PvP events.
Imagine running a "highest single loot" or "most loot" event on players? That could quickly become one of the most entertaining activities in game, boost the sale of PvP gear, and revitalize the PvP zones.


Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.


Very respectfully,


- Captain Jack
 
I like it! :wise:
 
isn't that somehow in place already, that besides looting stackables of a player, you also get a loot event on the toxic snot?

i've read about globals & hofs of players that didn't carry anything at all...

and i somehow like this idea! they could even keep all their actual lootable pvp zones and its mechanics, and implement your suggestion only in all other zones and space.

:rolleyes:
 
Dear MA, back vehicles in PVP4 plz! It was so much fun! :yay:
 
What a great idea jack +rep.
MA make it happen.
 
There are a number of problems with PvP. I'll highlight just three of them.

1. In lootable PvP the risk-vs-reward is too high. Loot composition in PvP4 isn't high enough to justify the chance of getting looted - thus why it's dead.

2. In non-lootable PvP, the cost-vs-reward is too low. You can shoot someone at the rig over and over again and they just keep flying back.

3. As mentioned above, vehicles have opened the door to exploitation in PvP zones. You can kill someone over and over and they fly back in different vehicles every time, and then exploit the vehicles to make it cost prohibitive to keep shooting them.

I propose two relatively simple changes to incentivize action within PvP. No, I'm not talking about making it so that you lose all your stackables in all PvP zones, rather that players and vehicles behave like mobs when killed.

1. Add the same loot algorithm which applies to mobs to players, but make loot composition 100% shrapnel.
2. Add the same loot algorithm to vehicles, and make it so that when a vehicle is recalled it is considered dead for loot purposes.


By doing this, MindArk still gets revenue through the same mechanisms they do with hunting. I would venture to say that these changes would cause a significant increase in PvP participation, possibly to the degree that they would even make more from PvP than they do today. This would also open the door for significantly more PvP events.
Imagine running a "highest single loot" or "most loot" event on players? That could quickly become one of the most entertaining activities in game, boost the sale of PvP gear, and revitalize the PvP zones.


Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.


Very respectfully,


- Captain Jack


You have hit the nail on the head!

Similar mechanisms could be applied in space as well to make it worth while for the "Victims" to shoot back at us also.
 
You have hit the nail on the head!

Similar mechanisms could be applied in space as well to make it worth while for the "Victims" to shoot back at us also.

Ideally it would apply to all PvP zones, space included. This would make some some epic space battles!
 
So simple. I hope Sven can do it!
 
Funny I wrote this yesterday:

I'll probably make a thread one day telling all the ideas I've got to improve the whole PvP system ingame. (and to bring back vehicles in PvP zones! :wtg: )

in this thread https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...elease-Notes&p=3662748&viewfull=1#post3662748

Is it synchronicity ? :confused:

Anyway, first you should know why vehicles have been banned from PvP zone.

And for what I know:

1/ People use it to send ores/enmatters to storage in PvP4.

Easy solution: Deactivate vehicles inventory in PvP zones.

2/ People are hidding in vehicle carcass (destroyed vehicles) to avoid been killed.

Easy solution: When a vehicle is destoyed in any PvP zone, it instantly goes back to storage.

And then Bring back vehicles and mounted weapon in PvP ! :rocket:

There is alooot of other ideas to improve PvP that I will add later.
 
With the rig, they made that building, made oil spawn all over it, then made oil spawn in some patch out the front. Could have battles all over that structure for oil, can have like waves where some part starts spawning oil quickly for a short period so it is an incentive to defend spots every now and then. Vehicles become no longer an issue, you can't drive onto it.

Lootable in the same way creatures are lootable is a cool idea.

However the cheating has to be addressed. We need something like punkbuster in pvp. In non-serious games like overwatch people get banned for it. In this game where cheating in pvp translates to robbing other people, MA doesn't even care. There are definitely trigger bots in use. Cheating in this game is incentivise by a) whatever makes people want to cheat in overwatch b) money rewards c) MA turning a blind eye. The only thing that can be fixed there is MA caring.
 
With the rig, they made that building, made oil spawn all over it, then made oil spawn in some patch out the front. Could have battles all over that structure for oil, can have like waves where some part starts spawning oil quickly for a short period so it is an incentive to defend spots every now and then. Vehicles become no longer an issue, you can't drive onto it.

Lootable in the same way creatures are lootable is a cool idea.

However the cheating has to be addressed. We need something like punkbuster in pvp. In non-serious games like overwatch people get banned for it. In this game where cheating in pvp translates to robbing other people, MA doesn't even care. There are definitely trigger bots in use. Cheating in this game is incentivise by a) whatever makes people want to cheat in overwatch b) money rewards c) MA turning a blind eye. The only thing that can be fixed there is MA caring.

There is no need for aim botting in EU... our hit boxes are so big you could hit a Pin so long as that MA assigns the hit box to it....
 
With the rig, they made that building, made oil spawn all over it, then made oil spawn in some patch out the front. Could have battles all over that structure for oil, can have like waves where some part starts spawning oil quickly for a short period so it is an incentive to defend spots every now and then. Vehicles become no longer an issue, you can't drive onto it.

Lootable in the same way creatures are lootable is a cool idea.

However the cheating has to be addressed. We need something like punkbuster in pvp. In non-serious games like overwatch people get banned for it. In this game where cheating in pvp translates to robbing other people, MA doesn't even care. There are definitely trigger bots in use. Cheating in this game is incentivise by a) whatever makes people want to cheat in overwatch b) money rewards c) MA turning a blind eye. The only thing that can be fixed there is MA caring.

I think cheating in PvP is extremely low on their priority list, and part of that is because of the lack of activity in PvP.
My proposal is extremely simple, very easy to implement, and would bring PvP back into the realm of popular ingame activities. If MA chooses to take action on this and implement this or something similar, then I would begin to propose more complex solutions to other issues.
 
There are a number of problems with PvP. ...

I had been hinking about this recently as well, but I came to another approach in regards to non lootable PVP.

How can PVP be made fun again, for everybody?
How to draw more people into PVP zones?

I came up with this very simple solution:

Why not treat players in pvp zones like shared loot mobs?
So, whenever I shoot a player in PVP I can loot him, but I wont take his personal stuff (since this is reserved for PVP4), but instead I just get loot (based on cost to kill) like any other mob.

What would be the result of this?

Well, I think this will make shooting players not a total 100% waste, so my guess is that it will result in a lot more pvp action.

This will make PVP approachable for everybody.
Instead of grindig mobs you can now cycle ped in PVP.

It comes down to hunting players instead IA mobs.
And lets be honest, we all know that hunting real players can be way more fun than hunting dumb IA mobs.

And the good part, this wont cost MA anything!

*edit*
This also goes for the octagons.
People globaling on eachother inside the rings :rolleyes:

*edit 2*
I guess I hadnt read your first post properly as you suggested the same! :)
 
I had been hinking about this recently as well, but I came to another approach in regards to non lootable PVP.

How can PVP be made fun again, for everybody?
How to draw more people into PVP zones?

I came up with this very simple solution:

Why not treat players in pvp zones like shared loot mobs?
So, whenever I shoot a player in PVP I can loot him, but I wont take his personal stuff (since this is reserved for PVP4), but instead I just get loot (based on cost to kill) like any other mob.

What would be the result of this?

Well, I think this will make shooting players not a total 100% waste, so my guess is that it will result in a lot more pvp action.

This will make PVP approachable for everybody.
Instead of grindig mobs you can now cycle ped in PVP.

It comes down to hunting players instead IA mobs.
And lets be honest, we all know that hunting real players can be way more fun than hunting dumb IA mobs.

And the good part, this wont cost MA anything!

*edit*
This also goes for the octagons.
People globaling on eachother inside the rings :rolleyes:

*edit 2*
I guess I hadnt read your first post properly as you suggested the same! :)

Yes, every avatar and vehicle behaving like shared loot is the idea behind this.
 
I like the idea for normal PvP. PvP 4... I don't have much opinion. (Been running the same toxic shot for at least 5 years :rolleyes: )
 
entropia_pvp.jpg
 

PvP is one of the most popular genres in the gaming industry. There is a huge population of players here in Entropia who enjoy PvP in other games. There is a reasonable population of players in Entropia who would love to have PvP improved.
 
PvP is one of the most popular genres in the gaming industry. There is a huge population of players here in Entropia who enjoy PvP in other games. There is a reasonable population of players in Entropia who would love to have PvP improved.

I am one of those who enjoy PvP in other game.

Why do I avoid it in EU?
Because its useless to compete in an unbalanced enviroment, where I simply be a viction without any chance to shoot anyone with high end gear and levels above 200+

So if you attach loot onto me, its very likely that I won´t mine/hunt anymore in non-lootable PvP zones, as shot down to often.

To make PvP fun, it has to be balanced, what is impossible with EU skill system.
There always will be UBERs who cycle a lot more than I (or any other average joe) can do, so they will always be way ahead in skills (HP).
Not to speak about gear that cost $10k+, what is just not affordable for average joe and me!

So no thanks, let it be how it is (at least in non lootable).
No big thing if I get shot down every here and then, just because someone wants to hit a playerkill HoF entry, but if people start to hunt me down in mining grounds to get loot out of me, it will become very anoying.
 
I am one of those who enjoy PvP in other game.

Why do I avoid it in EU?
Because its useless to compete in an unbalanced enviroment, where I simply be a viction without any chance to shoot anyone with high end gear and levels above 200+

So if you attach loot onto me, its very likely that I won´t mine/hunt anymore in non-lootable PvP zones, as shot down to often.

To make PvP fun, it has to be balanced, what is impossible with EU skill system.
There always will be UBERs who cycle a lot more than I (or any other average joe) can do, so they will always be way ahead in skills (HP).
Not to speak about gear that cost $10k+, what is just not affordable for average joe and me!

So no thanks, let it be how it is (at least in non lootable).
No big thing if I get shot down every here and then, just because someone wants to hit a playerkill HoF entry, but if people start to hunt me down in mining grounds to get loot out of me, it will become very annoying.

Spawn camping at icarus and PA will be a great intro to the game for new players, too.

Oh wait, This is EU. We'd never have gangs of griefers camping spawns waiting to loot lesser skilled or experienced players.

lol

I enter PVP, lootable and non, for various reasons. I get the most angry when they simply steal my opportunity to play. I haven't commented yet in this thread because I have mixed feelings on the matter, but this point is unavoidable, and I'd like to just step in and say this may be the most important point in the whole conversation.

If you're really just trying to get somewhere, and you came with no loot, but there's a couple of pirates around and their not communicating this can be a real problem just right now. Two or three loot checks from various lone wolves, or just one who kills you a couple times because you dared to complain, and next thing you know logging in for an hour to take a 45 minute flight isn't enough.

Then I wind up very angry because what they have taken is worth considerably more to me than some PEDs.

I have no problem envisioning seven or eight assholes coming up on someone like myself or GoNi mining, trailing to spawn, and holding you there until everyone in the group has added you to their kill streak.

All the while spewing nasty, rude, x-box quality crap at you about how they're just playing the game and you should really stop acting like it's a problem that you're just another mob for their shitty entertainment.

If you've ever seen it happen in space, you know fully well that if MA "says it's ok" to hunt other players, this is going to happen.

After several days of consideration, reading what people have to say here and keeping a lid on my desire to rant about vehicles in EU, this post really hit home for me.

I've an emphatic no for this idea.

Pls campaign to revive the Hub. Then we can have lovely conversations about e-sports and leaderboards and good PVP champs in EU. The players who love for it can come go for it against people with the same interests, and properly matched skills and gear.

Not this.
 
Spawn camping at icarus and PA will be a great intro to the game for new players, too.

I'm not proposing to make everywhere in EU PvP.

If you're really just trying to get somewhere, and you came with no loot, but there's a couple of pirates around and their not communicating this can be a real problem just right now. Two or three loot checks from various lone wolves, or just one who kills you a couple times because you dared to complain, and next thing you know logging in for an hour to take a 45 minute flight isn't enough.

Then I wind up very angry because what they have taken is worth considerably more to me than some PEDs.
….

If vehicles behaved like mobs, then you could actually establish an anti-piracy coalition (for which I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers) to go into space in squads specifically to take down pirates. Kind of like the old days before vehicles, when the Calypso Rescue Team would escourt players who were stuck at a remote outpost without a TP chip.
 
============================================================

Believe it or not I've deleted a lot of rambling and redundancy from this post. I know there's still plenty in there but I'm tired of editing it down.

After looking at the wall of text I decided to add TL;DR, because

TL;DR: The end result of all my pros and cons is still "I'm not sure".

=============================================================
I'm not proposing to make everywhere in EU PvP.



If vehicles behaved like mobs, then you could actually establish an anti-piracy coalition (for which I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers) to go into space in squads specifically to take down pirates. Kind of like the old days before vehicles, when the Calypso Rescue Team would escourt players who were stuck at a remote outpost without a TP chip.

With regards to that, as long as "Normal" players have to go where the PVP is at, and there is plenty of room to reasonably participate in the game systems without it - I'm open to a lot of stuff.

I hear what you're saying, I think I understand it. But there would be follow on effects and again, this needs to be limited to certain, voluntary entry, areas.

Looting (especially repeatable looting) of my Valkyrie or my Sleip while I'm trying to get out of a revive or a service center is a SERIOUS problem, and mad food for griefers.

I think that a one spawned vehicle per avatar rule would help with many of the issues that have arisen both in and out of PVP.

You do you, as long as participation is optional. I think the hub made a clear statement about how many of the chest thumping, geared up, old time PVP'ers really love PVP, and blow up about anything that chips at their advantage.

No one complained about vehicles when they were using them to stop me blowing them up after three weeks in the game. I was an obnoxious noob messing with things I "couldn't understand". ROFL whatever.

As soon as I spawned one, it was an exploit.

It was pretty hilarious, from my perspective. Literally THE SAME avatar that used his valkyrie to ward off my electric strike was leading the charge to ban vehicles when people started using Pits to eat up his 450 hp rocket blasts. Or stop the tango all together.

If someone was shooting at me, I would hide behind a car in a minute.

Anyways I'm interested very much in the topic of vehicles in EU, and how people react to realism when it's impeding their perceived advantage. But while it all ties together I think it's (mostly) off topic to what you're talking about here.

In my opinion there's a disconnect here. Much of the conversation regarding where pvp games fit into the gaming world are not even relatable to EU. And every attempt to ignite broad player interest in PVP here has pretty much failed.

Personally I can't get behind anything that encourages random griefers to attack me more frequently in the wild. And if you confine this interaction to a zone that zone will be empty the majority of the time.

If you confine this to "space" because MA has already screwed us up there so, why not, it's no better for me. While enabling the sort of gameplay you describe, it also encourages otherwise "Good" people to sit at the spawns, guard the stations and the training areas, and interfere with people that are trying to interact with the system.

I do see some capacity for fun here. There's also just WAY too much capacity for abuse, and actual incentive for players that would never really be griefers to go around griefing people as a mode of "encouraged" gameplay.

If you remove the personal looting from the equation it's a huge positive and I think this would allow the broader interest you want, but it interferes with MAs established use of space as a barrier to commerce.

TBH I just don't know how it would work out. I have mixed feeling, but mostly an overriding fear of it. I suspect this is pretty broadly shared among most of the players already here.

As to whether or not it would attract a new type of player in sufficient numbers to "revitalize" anything - it's probably a better gamble than compets.

Keep it to limited zones, and the idea has my tentative support. There's a lot to consider, and the sheer existence of a withdrawal mechanic makes this game subject to social forces that just don't exist for pretty much every game out there that anyone ever references in regard to "what video gamers want".

I'm not a gamer. I never was, and I don't see anything wrong with that. One thing that I like about EU is the number of people here, on one of the largest and oldest sandbox MMO around, that feel the same. "I went into FPS mode" is old grouch speak for "I got excited and screwed up with the mouse".

:shrug:

TBF I have been trying to learn some space fighting skills lately. I don't know how many battles I'll have before the adrenaline rush gets done but for right now "dogfighting" still kind of means spinning around randomly trying to blast them as they spin in and out of view.

I'm just adding this bit to point out that I'm not really against all change or completely against this idea. Still there are a very long list of things to be done around here. If MA drops the ball to chase after this for another two years, the success of something like this could be what finally destroys the game completely.

I mean, imagine if they lay this out and get it patched on and all in fine MA fashion and we still have nothing that has languished unfixed or requested for years. Then, say, 0.0001 percent of FPS PVP or Space/combat sim gamers show up to try it out.

I've had some recent conversations about low end machines and playing in safe mode, heh. The hogglos on caly have had effects that can be felt on other servers in the last couple of weeks. It's a real problem if we get a couple hundred players on one server, with the current playerbase you can already be rejected from a planet safe zone for "too full" errors.

In summary, there I go rambling again I guess. There's actually a lot to think about here, but TBH while I started with a little of "that could be really cool" the more I think about follow on consequences and what it requires for EU in terms of infrastructure and programming, I'm not sure whether something like this failing or succeeding would be messier.

It's a lot of food for thought. I understand why it's an unwelcome idea, my knee jerks in the same direction as a lot of the other reaction I see here. I'd be willing to give it a try, but implementing on top of the current stack could also be too much.

I do think they might do better to finally hire an actual skilled propaganda firm and run a hard campaign on "The Virtual RCE Where You Can Lose It All".

That's not a joke. It's kind of silly, but not a joke.
 
Looting (especially repeatable looting) of my Valkyrie or my Sleip while I'm trying to get out of a revive or a service center is a SERIOUS problem, and mad food for griefers.

I am not familiar with the location you're talking about - somewhere the revive is located in a PvP zone? Unless you're talking about space?
 
I am not familiar with the location you're talking about - somewhere the revive is located in a PvP zone? Unless you're talking about space?

Yes right now without the system loot mechanic this behavior is a problem in space. But only with certain players that are actively here to work out their desire to cause other people problems.

For simplicity I'll continue to refer to them regardless of motivation, as griefers. The are plenty of players here in game that are space pirates for this reason, as much as (in some cases more than) any actual loot they might be getting.

These people would rather see you lose your shit all over space chat and maybe even ragequit than get any loot from you or your ship. In the current system, it's a limited problem, and probably no more common than it is (in relative %) than it is in normal society.


The current pirate line about "We're playing the way MA intended" currently rings through space as the battle cry of group of people who, given the choice, have chosen to be thieves and griefers. And MA did give them the choice.

Add a system loot mechanic and this becomes a seriously confusing issue. At that point MA is actively encouraging players that would never turn into thieves or griefers to go around randomly griefing players as they try to go about their business.

One players interaction with the provided game system is another player's EU nightmare.

I understand you've had to repeatedly clarify at this point you're not really talking about a gamewide implementation.

However "existing PVP areas" include most of amathera as well. In sum total this may be a part of the universe that's larger than most of the other planets and zones (Stations/moons/instances) combined.

Even confined to space, an environment most players avoid as carefully as necessary, I see incentive to do what amounts to griefing in the course of normal gameplay.

===========================================

For example I run into another player at skyflails, and he decides to show off for 90 seconds. I've got 25 minutes of trouble now before I can try to get back to what I was doing. That may be most of my remaining session, or discouraging enough to stop me early.

If I get back half an hour later and he kills me in another 90 seconds, I can honestly tell you in that moment you, him, MA, space and all of y'all can fuck off I'm logging out for a couple of hours. Maybe days.

===========================================
TBF in the end the most weighted argument I can see is that I don't think MA can pull these various conflicting drives together into a system without losing EU completely along the way.

I'm here for a avatar skill/experience based, non-linear sandbox MMO. Dabbling in optional PVP is an occasional bit of fun for me.

Spending my entire allotted gameplay being wrecked by people who want to show off their space sim skills or being left with no reasonable option but to schedule my gameplay around the bus routes is a huge no go.

Admittedly, I'm staring at a half a glass of water here, and calling it half empty. I can't call you wrong for saying it's half full.

In the end though, even if you take time to gather feedback and hammer out the finer points of a system that the majority of players agree would be, at least, interesting enough to try, I fear the end of EU would come before MA had it implemented as envisioned.

Edit: added specific example of "unintentional" griefing encouraged by this system.

Here is some intentional griefing on amathera. "We don't hate sweaters we just love PK".

90 Kills just on the top 5 HoF and >26 pages of fallout<

This does still happen occasionally, but it's usually one or two people who have found some sweaters in a yellow zone.
 
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Why even reply to the thread with this drivel. PvP has driven Entropia's arm race between players since the beginning.. You act as if it is unpopular than why do top societies gear up completely to win over at LandGrabs.. Not to mention most of the top streamers on Twitch that can attract people to Entropia are also playing PVP based games quite constantly (pubG, Fortnite, LeagueofLegends). The crossover appeal is quite noticeable.

There is a point and purpose to gaining high hp and having really nice gear besides just hunting and you are saying that is unpopular? For one it has hugely driven the economy of Entropia. A large percentage of the top societies at some point or other were heavily involved in PVP (although admittedly many are inactive now but i do believe this is the symptom of the problem that Captain Jack is trying to address). A large amount of the items and armor on the high end of this game are purely for pvp but it has been shelved, which seems incredibly counter-productive given that the pvp zone's in particular used to be quite popular including lootable pvp.
 
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There are a number of problems with PvP. I'll highlight just three of them.

1. In lootable PvP the risk-vs-reward is too high. Loot composition in PvP4 isn't high enough to justify the chance of getting looted - thus why it's dead.

2. In non-lootable PvP, the cost-vs-reward is too low. You can shoot someone at the rig over and over again and they just keep flying back.

3. As mentioned above, vehicles have opened the door to exploitation in PvP zones. You can kill someone over and over and they fly back in different vehicles every time, and then exploit the vehicles to make it cost prohibitive to keep shooting them.

I propose two relatively simple changes to incentivize action within PvP. No, I'm not talking about making it so that you lose all your stackables in all PvP zones, rather that players and vehicles behave like mobs when killed.

1. Add the same loot algorithm which applies to mobs to players, but make loot composition 100% shrapnel.
2. Add the same loot algorithm to vehicles, and make it so that when a vehicle is recalled it is considered dead for loot purposes.


By doing this, MindArk still gets revenue through the same mechanisms they do with hunting. I would venture to say that these changes would cause a significant increase in PvP participation, possibly to the degree that they would even make more from PvP than they do today. This would also open the door for significantly more PvP events.
Imagine running a "highest single loot" or "most loot" event on players? That could quickly become one of the most entertaining activities in game, boost the sale of PvP gear, and revitalize the PvP zones.


Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.


Very respectfully,


- Captain Jack

I enjoy reading your points because they are short and concise. I do agree that PVP needs a major overhaul and this seems like a cool idea. Vehicles ARE exploited at the rig all the time. It is not simply the blowing up of the vehicle that is the problem it is the ability to repair it immediately to absorb damage that is unrealistic. (should only be able to be blown up once and then should go back to storage when in a PVP zone or just become un-repairable until it is recalled to storage). It would be great if blowing up a vehicle did pay you back some of the input that you put in.

A few that are against the idea seem to be thinking that you are arguing that all PVP should have these rules including some or most of Amethera where there is uncontained pvp. I think you were intending that PVP specific zones that are delineated by their red and orange boundaries (except space) should have this change that you are recommending. It would be great to replace the toxic shot with something much more simple.

I really like this idea. I think that we can agree that these changes should be impressed upon specific pvp zones such as:

  • -LandGrab areas
  • -PVP1
  • -PVP2 (rig)
  • -PVP3 (lootable)
  • -PVP4 (lootable)
  • -Space PVP (lootable)
  • -Rocktropia PVP (lootable)
  • -Arkadia PVP (lootable)
  • -Not familiar enough with Cyrene and others although i am sure there are more.

I do agree that all of Amethera being PVP might cause too many griefing type situations as already happens in space. A majority of players that don't enjoy PVP in games like this don't need to be hassled constantly and i think they need to improve space to allow for them to avoid most of this. I would like for space to have specific PVP lootable zones with perhaps lucrative mining and hunting opportunities inside and maybe a few high risk areas where needing to be escorted will be necessary. The way it is now hinders enjoyment for the majority of participants of Entropia.

There can be a great balance that can be achieved between PVP and those that want nothing to do with it.
 
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...
Imagine running a "highest single loot" or "most loot" event on players? That could quickly become one of the most entertaining activities in game, boost the sale of PvP gear, and revitalize the PvP zones.
...

I would suggest that you engage with the existing PVP event system. I'm guessing that you have at least looked at it, but you can manage decay, enable or disable the vehicle mechanics. You may be able to make other PVP related changes I haven't looked in along time.

You can also provide incentives IMO HSL on players is against the thing that drives players who are interested in PVP. Most loot fits right in. The current system is kill point based I'm pretty sure. Again, it's been a while.

I do think that if HSL on players happened(with system loot mechanic), a lot of players would show up to try it, but I don't know how well it would retain interest. The current event system leans heavily on "I was going to hunt that mob anyways".

I am not just posting random thoughts in your thread.

I have failed to get so much as a nibble of interest in this. The only existing criterion i could gather from the community is "make it cheaper we don't care about anything else".

From the very few people who even cared enough to take note or respond. I was essentially punished (negative ratings, insults, etc...) for attempting to explore this :)

This will have also have to follow on benefit of attracting like minded players If you can get anybody interested. PVP is heavily stigmatized right now. TBH in the current environment I guess there are some interested parties that wouldn't OPENLY support this idea but might, if you could get some, or any, sort of positive vibe going.

...
Why even reply to the thread with this drivel. PvP has driven Entropia's arm race between players since the beginning.. You act as if it is unpopular than why do top societies gear up completely to win over at LandGrabs.. Not to mention most of the top streamers on Twitch that can attract people to Entropia are also playing PVP based games quite constantly (pubG, Fortnite, LeagueofLegends). The crossover appeal is quite noticeable.
....

What's the per-engagement cost to the individuals involved in any of those games?

They created an entire system dedicated to people who wanted to use their existing skill and gear to do these things. It's languishing unused. You can turn down decay, make it cheap. If you make it cheap enough, people will show up to complain about how it sucks.

I don't even look, when was the last time there was a player sponsored event on tukar?

They also implemented a full on e-sports type use of the Entropia mechanics in PVP. All start equal, and build specific skills to this task regardless of what they may have done (or spent) in EU. A competitive arena for people to exercise their personal skills in an environment with avatar skills and equipment more balanced for PVP.

Ever been there? Have you ever seen a match?

Mega's picture sums up a common sentiment. It's not just about PVP. It's about MA development, the people that (financially) support them, and the demographic that are attracted to a giant open world sandbox.

When is the last time that anybody even stepped into a ring? I spent some time standing in twins ring recently.

Scratching my virtual balls. Alone.

I'm ignoring the land grab thing. Do they even bother now? TBF that's a PE activity that really just seems to have caused a bunch of crap in EU. Most relevance that it seems to have to this conversation is that it made more people angry than happy.

i definitely don't need to be getting mean about anybody's fond old memories of PE/EU right now. But I 100% believe that MA don't waste their already minimal effort on the problems associated with land grab OR pvp4 etcetera because, frankly, there's not enough interest in the broader community for it to be worth it.

Opinions may vary, and that's ok. But there is a long history of attempts to increase, or even force PVP onto the player base that have failed.

Pyrite wasn't moved because MA wanted to screw PVP miners, or PVPers, or the other complaints that came up. It was moved because it's needed for the game and nobody could be asked to go mine it. The system provides loots there. Still.

I have seen my own name in global chat as the mob. This actually turned out to be pretty funny since my full avatar name is ALMOST the exact name of an event mob. It caused a lot of questions in chat, where's the event etcetera, and was the first many people learned of how the toxic shot is used.

The cost/incentive system for fun, engaging PVP is broken in EU. And the majority of players currently involved with EU are not really interested in spending money to show off in that way. It's really not directly comparable to anything you have listed.

This is a real barrier to advancing with an idea like this. It doesn't indicate that this is a bad idea, or a sure failure and I'm not implying that. What I'm saying is that there is a very real and very steep perceptual hill about the existing role PVP has played in EU that will have to be overcome.

EU is not full of people waiting for them to fix what's "broken" about PVP. There are a few, and they're sometimes a vocal minority. But if you have interacted with most of them, they're not actually interested in proving themselves on a level playing ground.

I'm not sure if changing the loot mechanic would work, I'm not even against it, in principle. I see it as 100% a gamble because it's not what attracts PVP players to PVP, and it's not what attract MMORPG players to EU.

I understand that a lot of people like fortnite. If this game turns into that I will quit. It's not about right or wrong, that one. It's just a matter of preference and personal choice, and I can go play fortnite if I want that.

There's nothing to replace EU. If there was any chance that we could ever see either idea to fruition, I would be willing to place a very large bet on eliminating PVP entirely from EU attracting more new players than implementing this mechanic. Put THAT to the player base.

I could be wrong, but that's where I'm coming from. Narrow it down to the red/yellow zones and it won't matter because what that really means for the system is that the vast majority of EU players can continue to ignore it.

In space, and in space only (of existing zones) I see this idea as, not exactly desirable, but a possible improvement to what we have. But it will also bring new issues and hurt between players as I described above.

EDIT: I am having a huge laugh this morning at the thought of a 10k player iron mission.

37.57 Ped Equivalent Captain skill
or
64.16 PED Equivalent Mounted Weapons

The NPC would have to be an old pirate at Howling Mine, of course.
 
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I would suggest that you engage with the existing PVP event system. I'm guessing that you have at least looked at it, but you can manage decay, enable or disable the vehicle mechanics. You may be able to make other PVP related changes I haven't looked in along time....


The current PvP event system leaves a lot to be wanted. Yes, you can have a Battle Royale event, but there really is not much point unless the event coordinator fronts a lot of prizes. With the current system in place, you would need to sell tickets to be able to spot the prizes. People tend to not like the pay-per-ticket model of any event, as they don't want to buy a ticket and have something come up later so they can't show up. Consequently, these event types tend to produce below-average turnout, or the prizes must simply come out of the event coordinators pockets. With the proposed PvP system, each kill would produce loot which could be taxed by an LA owner, enabling LA owners to fund the prize pots on free to enter events.

I am not just posting random thoughts in your thread.

I have failed to get so much as a nibble of interest in this. The only existing criterion i could gather from the community is "make it cheaper we don't care about anything else".

I am sorry you failed to get any interest in your idea. This post has actually had significant support, but the vast majority of it has been in private messages and +reps on the post. There are a lot of trolls on this forum that make it uncomfortable to publicly support something that may be a sensitive topic for some, one of said trolls has already posted here in the same form and fashion as he tends to make the vast majority of his other posts in the past year or so.


I'm ignoring the land grab thing. Do they even bother now? TBF that's a PE activity that really just seems to have caused a bunch of crap in EU. Most relevance that it seems to have to this conversation is that it made more people angry than happy.

Land grab used to be a popular event in which many high level players with all manner of gear came and brought their best. Today it consists of a quiet alliance of some high level players with top PvP gear in such numbers that it is cost prohibitive to even try to make them even just fight for the land they hold. Consequently land grab today consists of 1-3 members of that society standing there waiting for the timer to elapse and then they do it again at the next one. Occasionally a few players show up to fight, but that is not the norm.
If my idea were implemented, it would no longer be cost-prohibitive to give them a run for their money. Even if you couldn't defeat them at land grab, you could certainly have a lot of fun making them fight for it - and I think there are over 100 people in EU who would. That would make for some pretty epic battles.

i definitely don't need to be getting mean about anybody's fond old memories of PE/EU right now. But I 100% believe that MA don't waste their already minimal effort on the problems associated with land grab OR pvp4 etcetera because, frankly, there's not enough interest in the broader community for it to be worth it.
Opinions may vary, and that's ok. But there is a long history of attempts to increase, or even force PVP onto the player base that have failed.
No, there isn't enough interest in it. My proposal does not require much effort on their part at all - a simple copy/paste of coding and a few hours of debugging and it's ready to roll - and the point would be to revitalize the interest that was once there.
I am not proposing forcing anybody into PvP. I don't understand where you get that idea from. I am proposing making PvP worth pursuing as a regular ingame activity.
 
I am not proposing forcing anybody into PvP. I don't understand where you get that idea from. I am proposing making PvP worth pursuing as a regular ingame activity.

You are not suggesting that we force people into a new place. You are suggesting a system be placed over an area people are forced into. Without that pressure, I believe that this system implemented in clearly marked and reserved PVP areas on planets will largely be a failure.

So the way I see it, this is not going to be welcomed, and it's not going to happen past some initial curiosity unless people are forced into it.

I understand that your idea isn't to implement that, but to build on it. None of use were given any choice in that. But, again just IMO, it absolutely depends on it.

Why even reply to the thread with this drivel. PvP has driven Entropia's arm race between players since the beginning.. You act as if it is unpopular than why do top societies gear up completely to win over at LandGrabs.. Not to mention most of the top streamers on Twitch that can attract people to Entropia are also playing PVP based games quite constantly (pubG, Fortnite, LeagueofLegends). The crossover appeal is quite noticeable.

There is a point and purpose to gaining high hp and having really nice gear besides just hunting and you are saying that is unpopular? For one it has hugely driven the economy of Entropia. A large percentage of the top societies at some point or other were heavily involved in PVP (although admittedly many are inactive now but i do believe this is the symptom of the problem that Captain Jack is trying to address). A large amount of the items and armor on the high end of this game are purely for pvp but it has been shelved, which seems incredibly counter-productive given that the pvp zone's in particular used to be quite popular including lootable pvp.

This is the cause of most of what I typed here this morning. I was ignoring how personal it started off since it wasn't aimed at me and he actually goes on to raise (again) what people are trying to draw as valid point for this system.

Yay everybody is welcome to their opinion regarding some things. But really?

Entropia's arms race between players? Sorry 8 years PVP has been noobs hiding from assholes most of the time. Every zone.

As noted it's been a long, looong time since "top societies geared up for land grab". The only reason anybody comes is to make sure they still have the lock on the cash. And there's no challenge or "PVP fun" involved at all.

Took a noob to the rig a couple days ago. Dunno about all the time but, it might as well have been orthos over there with people covering the ground instead of standing in line.

After a couple minutes someone saw me (not noob) standing by the rig and shot me. I don't even know where the 1 shot kill came from. They actually left the noob i brought among the searchers for several minutes. Never a single word from the "nanny"- if i didn't get a name in system chat I would never have known who it was.

Like I said I'm not here to crap on anybody's fond memories really but as descriptions of EU go, this is pretty out of touch. I'm not going to call it "drivel" but it's inaccurate.

The more valid and reasonable points (imo) I already addressed.

And as far as mega do you think that my posting has either reinforced or changed any more opinions than his?

Anyways I'm pretty sure that I'm 100 percent clear on what you're suggesting captain Jack. If you didn't see what I'm saying I'll never manage to explain it but, I think you do. In fact if this thread is connecting you to people who share similar interests and want to discuss it that's great.

Keep on keeping on. I probably will be here if it evolves further into a flame war though :rolleyes:
 
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(Wall of text)...
Keep on keeping on. I probably will be here if it evolves further into a flame war though :rolleyes:

I'll be honest with you Atrax, I think you are getting frustrated that people are not fully reading your posts. One major reason for that is because your posts are very long, and bulleted without a separation of ideas or points. You are making new paragraphs which should not be new paragraphs. I've put a lot of thought into my initial proposal, and I could have made it a wall of text. Instead, I chose to pull out the most important bits and shorten it down to a length short enough to last the attention span of your average gamer. If you do likewise you'll probably get more support in your responses, even if you maintain the same position.
 
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