User Content not Cripted?
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Bear
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This answer is not real, is it? Yeah, MA we are all stupid kids....
1. THIS statement is a joke! DECRYPT in MEMORY MA!!! HELLO??!!!?!?! Not on the harddrive....
(Yeah, you can suck it out of memory as well... but thats not THAT easy..)2. Aha, and how do you protect "the exclusive rights of your materials within the Entropia Universe."? You Hash the pics? Ok, change one pixel and the hash is useless. Oh, image identification by pattern... sure you do that MA....lol, thats why the new servers, heee?
Or you have somebody sitting there watching all the pics? Aha....
3. How do you protect OUR rights OUTSIDE EU? You spam around our work and do not care, thats what you do!
- Since i am bashing and bitching about copyrights, i want to clarify one thing. I have a Video on YouTube which uses a song i have no rights on. BUT YouTube has since they made an aragement with the Lable which has the rights on that song.. -
DAMM IT, i normaly charge people for that.... Give Actam and me some stuff MA!! We want Protector of the Empiere for that work!!!
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Bear
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Etopia
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You wont protect material by trying to hidde how to get it...
It is a very very very old knowledge , to impvove security , the best way is to inform evryone about the hole.
The thief always know and find how to steale something... its "normal" people that will pay for the security hole if you dont provide info.
So
1) lets inform evryone about the problem and about its gravitie.
2) lets discuss about "how" and "what" we should do as player who whant do business with content...(i got lots of project that will probably be ruined by that hole).
3)Lets explain to MA that the EULA dont protect anything at all...
4)I dont think bank ask for only secure a nice EULA...EULA protect us from scamer , thief and so on too.... so far , we got login , pasword , gold card....
5) i dont think MA send all the data through internet with no emcryption... i dont bielieve that... and if they do , i bet bank wont like that...
6) since evrything is allready somhow encrypted , why not encrypt stuff on my disck , and send me a key when i need the data in clear ?
I am not good at security encryption and such a stuff ... but changing the file extention is a big lack attention from MA , and show with their eula they only protected them self and dont carre about player an other time...
It is a very very very old knowledge , to impvove security , the best way is to inform evryone about the hole.
The thief always know and find how to steale something... its "normal" people that will pay for the security hole if you dont provide info.
So
1) lets inform evryone about the problem and about its gravitie.
2) lets discuss about "how" and "what" we should do as player who whant do business with content...(i got lots of project that will probably be ruined by that hole).
3)Lets explain to MA that the EULA dont protect anything at all...
4)I dont think bank ask for only secure a nice EULA...EULA protect us from scamer , thief and so on too.... so far , we got login , pasword , gold card....
5) i dont think MA send all the data through internet with no emcryption... i dont bielieve that... and if they do , i bet bank wont like that...
6) since evrything is allready somhow encrypted , why not encrypt stuff on my disck , and send me a key when i need the data in clear ?
I am not good at security encryption and such a stuff ... but changing the file extention is a big lack attention from MA , and show with their eula they only protected them self and dont carre about player an other time...
actam
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Etopia, the data on your HD (textures and stuff ) is not encrypted.
I did manage to create a little python script that extracted all the textures...
The only view of protecting the pic would be a watermark as jdegree said...
But that watermark will show ingame so really not a nice solution!
I did manage to create a little python script that extracted all the textures...
The only view of protecting the pic would be a watermark as jdegree said...
But that watermark will show ingame so really not a nice solution!
Bear
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Anybody ever tried to change the games .bik files? Like watching a nice music video ingame instead of that "draw a picture, two people facing each other, each with a telephone.....blablabalbala"?
I have to work or else i would try.
NOW.. you wake up MA?
I have to work or else i would try.
NOW.. you wake up MA?
Etopia
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The data are not accessible by a simple extention change...
And who the hell will try to steal MA texture ???
There is better free texture on the net , there is no point doing that...
But i do bielive ... that data transfert between my comp and server are emcrypted , at least login , pass and gold card number...
In other hand , its write in clear on the entropia.exe command line....
Well , I am sorry , but save image full size , usual format on my HD , make the "stealing" way too easy...
Fact is its more easy and more nice to see an image by renaming file , than looking image in game...
What is the point to use a display stuff , that is little and crapy , when you got a 2048pix image on your hd ?
actam
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lol, no, not stealing, just curious of the content...
(* I did find some car textures and old stuff inside
*)
actam
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Cant find that in EULA.
/edit Actually, take it back. Extracting the art would qualify for the "tampering with the client software" part of EULA.
very true. They could look everyone account if you play a bit with their files...
Ido
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Cant find that in EULA.
/edit Actually, take it back. Extracting the art would qualify for the "tampering with the client software" part of EULA.
was there the last time i read it
Bear
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The "hosting facilities" where the user content is stored are our computers/harddrive and are NOT provided by MindArk.
GoNi
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Yeah there is surely need of some crypt.
Watermark would not help at all, as you get the original files you also get the watermarks. As long the thief doesn´t edit anything on the picture he has still the original. The watermark surely helps to get a thief when he distibutes your art without permisson, but it can´t stop him to steal it.
Serveroverload due to decrypt-routine? Sure if decrypton runs on server it will lead to massive laggs. MA should introduce a decryption routine to software we all have installed on our computers. If its done this way they have just to send a key to people looking at any crypted contents. The decryption itself runs on everybodys PC at home.
Its still possible to log the transmission of the key, and find the decryptionroutine in the code, but it affords a lot of more knowledge to a thief then just opening a file with his common grafik programs.
I would advice at least a 64-Bit key better 128-Bit or higher, so brute force attacks on the files will have to work for years on it.
Watermark would not help at all, as you get the original files you also get the watermarks. As long the thief doesn´t edit anything on the picture he has still the original. The watermark surely helps to get a thief when he distibutes your art without permisson, but it can´t stop him to steal it.
Serveroverload due to decrypt-routine? Sure if decrypton runs on server it will lead to massive laggs. MA should introduce a decryption routine to software we all have installed on our computers. If its done this way they have just to send a key to people looking at any crypted contents. The decryption itself runs on everybodys PC at home.
Its still possible to log the transmission of the key, and find the decryptionroutine in the code, but it affords a lot of more knowledge to a thief then just opening a file with his common grafik programs.
I would advice at least a 64-Bit key better 128-Bit or higher, so brute force attacks on the files will have to work for years on it.
Etopia
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Before you get it in your hard drive its strored on MA server...
Mean i can send image , movies...with the PC things to zillion people , but i pay server fee only 1 time...
Bear
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Yes, but you "tamper or interact" with the files on YOUR computer, not with the servers from MA
You can store the Key (one Key, changing with every VU) within the program-code of EU. No need to send it around. Sure, its not Super-Duper-Secure, but you will have to decompile the program aka hack it, to get the key. Thats a big wall!
Ido
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anythig at least a bit more complex then the current thing would be great
keeping all pics in one big dat file for example .. so u would have to use hex to get teh data out would solve the initial problem ... would eliminate at least 70% potential thiefs who dont know what hex and jpeg standard and file header is... die thiefs 
keeping all pics in one big dat file for example .. so u would have to use hex to get teh data out would solve the initial problem ... would eliminate at least 70% potential thiefs
who dont know what hex and jpeg standard and file header is... die thiefs 
jdegre
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There are two different issues here: "copy protection" and "copyright protection". Digital watermarking helps the latter (copyright protection). It helps you to prove you're the content owner.
Preventing "copy protection" to its full extent is _almost_ impossible. Ask the music companies!
And, actam, _digital_ watermarking is invisible !!!
/jdegre.
Excerpt from http://www.watermarkingworld.org/
1.4 What is the difference between ``copy protection'' ``copyright protection'' ?
Copy protection attempts to find ways, which limits the access to copyrighted material and/or inhibit the copy process itself. Examples of copy protection include encrypted digital TV broadcast, access controls to copyrighted software through the use of license servers and technical copy protection mechanisms on the media. A recent example is the copy protection mechanism on DVDs. However, copy protection is very difficult to achieve in open systems, as recent incidents (like the DVD hack - DeCss) show.
Copyright protection inserts copyright information into the digital object without the loss of quality. Whenever the copyright of a digital object is in question, this information is extracted to identify the rightful owner. It is also possible to encode the identity of the original buyer along with the identity of the copyright holder, which allows tracing of any unauthorized copies. The most prominent way of embedding information in multimedia data is the use of digital watermarking.
Whereas copy protection seems to be difficult to implement, copyright protection protocols based on watermarking and strong cryptography are likely to be feasible.
GoNi
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Thats the thing I said judegre. You may hold a thief liable if he sells your watermarked art. He is violating copyrights.
But thats some kind of useless. F.e. someone places te Mona Lisa to art thiefs private rooms, every art expert may expertise that its the true Mona Lisa, but won´t hold back the thief from reselling it. Its just like a gift to him.
Therefor we need crypt to prevent thiefes from stealing the arts. At least it should become a little harder for him to get the pictures. Actual situation is like free gift.
If the pictures with palyer content are stored only at the server it would be not that easy to get the original, but thats to much traffic to transmit the whole data every time one takes a look on player content. So the contents have to be stored at everyones PC to reduce traffic, but this should be cryptet data not pure data.
@Ido:
Storing all contents in one big data file isn´t that easy like it sounds. Its much easyer to introduce a simple crypt routine, and a key. Recovering the key isn´t an easy thing.
Surely a good hacker may find the key if stored in program code, and he may be able to log the key when transmittet every time you look at player content. Nothing is absolutly safe.
But thats some kind of useless. F.e. someone places te Mona Lisa to art thiefs private rooms, every art expert may expertise that its the true Mona Lisa, but won´t hold back the thief from reselling it. Its just like a gift to him.
Therefor we need crypt to prevent thiefes from stealing the arts. At least it should become a little harder for him to get the pictures. Actual situation is like free gift.
If the pictures with palyer content are stored only at the server it would be not that easy to get the original, but thats to much traffic to transmit the whole data every time one takes a look on player content. So the contents have to be stored at everyones PC to reduce traffic, but this should be cryptet data not pure data.
@Ido:
Storing all contents in one big data file isn´t that easy like it sounds. Its much easyer to introduce a simple crypt routine, and a key. Recovering the key isn´t an easy thing.
Surely a good hacker may find the key if stored in program code, and he may be able to log the key when transmittet every time you look at player content. Nothing is absolutly safe.
Oh.
Cool thread about nothing. I use internet , somebody stole my Jpeg.
People talking about encryption like it gonna solve it, hah. People take camcorders to the cinema, if i where out to steal this very Jpeg , and it was to troublesome to actually take it from the Entropia folder, i would simply use my digital camera.
I for one are glad they did not spend time on encrypting stuff like this, in my humble opinion they surely do have some other stuff that could use some developer attention.
Nice pictures btw.
Cool thread about nothing. I use internet , somebody stole my Jpeg.
People talking about encryption like it gonna solve it, hah. People take camcorders to the cinema, if i where out to steal this very Jpeg , and it was to troublesome to actually take it from the Entropia folder, i would simply use my digital camera.
I for one are glad they did not spend time on encrypting stuff like this, in my humble opinion they surely do have some other stuff that could use some developer attention.
Nice pictures btw.
jdegre
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Yeah, I know... I was just commenting on the part about "watermarking would not help at all". Well, at least is helps to prove that someone is illegally using your work without permission, and that is punishable.
I agree that it would be better to prevent the copy of the content, but this is extremely hard, if not plain impossible. The media companies have tried to encrypt content in DVDs, HD-DVDs, and these protection methods have been hacked in a matter of weeks.
You better assume that your content might be copied, and prepare to be able to prove you're the legit author.
/jdegre.
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Bear
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Seems like you did understand NOTHING. There is a different between a bootleg, a camcorder record of a movie or illigeal filesharing and MA distributing our images to everyone (EU is Free). They are 100% full copies of our content. The User Content was also ment as a new possibility to trade with Art for example. MA takes a nice share from us uploading one image and kills the Art market with some lazy programing.
Etopia
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I guess people are not foul.We all know what internet is , and we all in som degrea use "stealed" material.
But , here , you get better quality in the folder than in game lol.
at least if it was a bit cripted , and you had to do screen shoot , or use your cam , the lower calitie would be enought.
Maybe alow 'artist' to sign the PC sign , so it show its made by artist and not thief.
We are in game , and there is lots of way that can be used to make part of stuff more dificult for thief , and part od stuff more valuable for artist...
we wont kill copie only by encryption that is sure , the true item need to provide something else
Etopia
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Very valid point here...
do people only read parts of the EULA depending on thier mood
as i said before, the strict enforcablility of this is a matter for lawyers to decide, but the essence is this: if you muck about with these files you risk having your account lock/closed.
thats a sensible solution.