Merging melee professions / skills

narfi said:

1. A part of the game is choosing paths and progressing down them until you decide to follow another path. Doing this will remove that aspect of the game and in effect remove the motivation for a lot of people to grind/skill in their chosen profession.

2. While this is good for the individual I question its value for the games economy. The economy is based off of me selling what I cant use to buy what I can. I might be wrong but this looks like it could cause stagnation.

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Joker has pointed out the goods to this proposal. It would be easier to pick up another weapon which you haven't worked for. This may or may not affect the value of higher end items, I am not sure.

When weighed against the possible negatives though, I think I am against it.

I would vote for merging 1 and 2 handed clubber professions, and leaving the rest alone.

narfi

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slupor said:

I think merging professions is a bad idea. Great diversity is a key feature of the game and should be preserved.

If players want to use the items they loot, they should skill up. If there are not enough weapons to skill up with, the problem is a loot balancing problem and not a skill overkill diversity.

/Slupor

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I agree with these statements!

Mixed feeling about the idea. I honestly don't trust MA to make it fair in anyway toward us if they were merged.

*Remembering mindforce professions and how I dropped levels :/

Still fairly upset about the change to scanning and don't understand that one at all other than it was a way for MA to 'fix' something they broke? Seems to me I remember MA 'promising' not to change stats for existing items so instead they just nerf a whole existing system.

So, overall, I'm against it I guess since I can come up with tons of things that could go wrong vs. any pros to doing it other than it makes things a bit easier for coding maybe. In reading the thread, the biggest con I saw and agree with is the balancing for existing items.

Note - I'm one that has a lot higher lb skills than sb ones. My little amount of sb wouldn't add to lb (combined melee) in any fair way I could see for total skill count on my avvy.

Mice said:

I been using melee exclusivly for the last 4-5 years. Right now I have almost 10k in both Longblade and Shortblade which gives me the ability to max any blade ingame, short or long. I am all for merging the two proffesions into one as long as it doesnt affect the skills already aquired. I guess merging them based on skill tt would be the only fair way. It would probably make me close to lvl 100 in melee, awesome

Also the demand for melee weapons would go up, today they are fairy cheap for what you get becuse the demand is simply quiet low.

Introduce more melee weapons in all ranges but please dont nerf whats already here, making melee too easy or high dmg weapons with very low requirements would damange the profession badly.

I own one of the UL Prism of Destructions and I can only say this is the most awesome weapon I ever used in EU. But at this point (even though im not even considering it) its more or less impossible to sell it for a price that would equal its potential since there is none or a very limited amount of players with the skills for it or the pocket to chip up (if there is skills availible).

Mergning melee would
- make melee more attractive
- increase the demand for melee weapons
- increase the value of melee weapons.

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agreed i have still yet to see a compelling reason not to merge as long as it is done properly

Mice said:

I been using melee exclusivly for the last 4-5 years. Right now I have almost 10k in both Longblade and Shortblade which gives me the ability to max any blade ingame, short or long. I am all for merging the two proffesions into one as long as it doesnt affect the skills already aquired. I guess merging them based on skill tt would be the only fair way. It would probably make me close to lvl 100 in melee, awesome

Also the demand for melee weapons would go up, today they are fairy cheap for what you get becuse the demand is simply quiet low.

Introduce more melee weapons in all ranges but please dont nerf whats already here, making melee too easy or high dmg weapons with very low requirements would damange the profession badly.

I own one of the UL Prism of Destructions and I can only say this is the most awesome weapon I ever used in EU. But at this point (even though im not even considering it) its more or less impossible to sell it for a price that would equal its potential since there is none or a very limited amount of players with the skills for it or the pocket to chip up (if there is skills availible).

Mergning melee would
- make melee more attractive
- increase the demand for melee weapons
- increase the value of melee weapons.

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Thats pretty much how I see it simplify.
I've used a prism and your on the knocker...awesome
The array of what should be one skill is diverse and confusing why not simplify it to enable many?

The simple are weak but simply enabled they are great

first.. i like this kind of questions to the community.

But you only get the opinion of a small player base out of only this forum.
What about the not English speaking/reading ppl out there, there are many of them.
There are so many points, that this isn't the way.


Bring back the voting terminals and ask this questions again.




For me .. i don't care of merging LB/SB and Clubs.


m2p

Kim|MindArk said:

As the title suggests I've been thinking about merging one/two handed clubber to a single profession and skill. The same goes for longblades and shortblades.

Is this something you would like or not?

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I dont agree leave as is thank you

sitram said:

Merge clubs but keep SB/LB as it is.

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Agreed only thing can be merged is one and two handed club professions...

MysterLV said:

Agreed only thing can be merged is one and two handed club professions...

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I would so benefit from merging LB with SB...

I must not be selfish and think of my own petty personal gains but to the greater good of EU, so my vote remain no for merging SB/LB.

if they are added togther by TT value, which would appear to be the only way of doing this then we would stand to loose on total skills! say i have 6000 LB and only 4000 SB these combined through ESI TT vaule will not = 10000 skill points

i cant understand why any one would wish for this, leave it alone please kim!!!


there are lots of people who just skill up in some of these to have a higher total skills, they would all loose out here

Merge clubs , keep SB/LB separate.

Kim|MindArk said:

As the title suggests I've been thinking about merging one/two handed clubber to a single profession and skill. The same goes for longblades and shortblades.

Is this something you would like or not?

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Pardon for hijacking this, but there's a lot of I coming from you.

You are apparently not only managing and controlling Calypso, you are now also in control of the main system?!

I think this is worthy of a whole new thread - and I think not only an article, as especially existing Planet Partners (which seems to again be demoted to "glorified LA-owners" as I previously have worded it) would likely have both opinions and follow-up questions.

Evil Aeon said:

Merge clubs , keep SB/LB separate.

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I go for this one too.

The only way to merge clubs is to merge light melee weapons and heavy melee weapons skills. That would also merge longblade/shortblade a little.

EMW said:

Will the points be added together? IE, say i have 5000 longblade points and 5000 shortblade points, following the merge my overall skill points be 10000 and therefore i can use higher skilled weapons, or how will it work?

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im with emw on this one... im all for the professions to be merged, and i also agree that more melee weapons need to be added.
i would love to have some kind of laser/lightning sword. like a lightsaber. I DEMAND MORE PARTICLE EFFECTS!

Xen said:

The only way to merge clubs is to merge light melee weapons and heavy melee weapons skills. That would also merge longblade/shortblade a little.

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You wouldn't have to do this. You just need to change 1-handed Clubber to Clubber and make all clubs use that profession.

For Clubs it makes sense to merge. There are not a lot of items which would be affected in their MU.
And the professions do not differ that much. Also here would be no need to merge skills.

For the longblades and shortblades and the other melee professions i would leave them alone.
The impact on item value alone would potentially piss of a lot of players.

Cheers
Siam.

Hi,

First: Great that you ask us! This is most welcome!

Second: Why here? This is a forum for a specific planet, but the change would concern melee fighters everywhere in the EU, right? So wrong forum, maybe?

Third: I'm melee fighter since my day 1. But I don't know what to think of it.

For sure I'd LOVE to have my short blade and long blade skills combined (given that it's just a summing up, without loss). This way I'd get blade skills I couldn't dream of else. I'd get my Determination sword nearly maxed, I'd be an Uber suddenly ...

But what would be the further consequences? Weapon skill determines crafting of such weapons, too. Any change in the skill system would change the market prices, and thus participants "investments".

This is a can of worms. It should be thought through intensively, and then discussed among all participants. Please, don't do any hip shots, we melee fighters are in disadvantage enough - any more nerf could be disastrous.

And I cannot overview it from my limited participant side. This could be the best thing since the invention of sliced bread, or it could be a meleeageddon. Be careful, please!

I advocate a certain "cleaning up" in the skills. They have grown out of hand, IMHO. I also advocate changes like the mining change recently, and the ammo change of the last VU. These are beneficial as far as I can judge.

I'd be ready to discuss such changes, happily. But I'd need more information. And the discussion should be on EF, IMHO, maybe mirrored on EP. This is something that concerns all participants. PCF is the utmost wrong place for such.

Further, I'd strongly suggest to think of the way the melee weapons work at all, compared to the ranged weapons. There are clear disadvantages, complained since ages - lacking amps to have an example. When doing a change like you asked about, why not do a really big overhaul, in a way that would emancipate these forgotten weapon professions?

I very much appreciate your move! It's overdue already, since long. But I'd kindly ask for a good analysis before, for a thought through concept then, and for an EU wide discussion finally.

Please don't feel attacked by this criticism! I value your work a lot, and I'm more than happy to finally see people like you acting on MA's behalf. You do a great job, and my intention is to help to become even better. This may be assumptive, but it's the way I am. Cannot help.

Thanks, and have a good time!

Joker said:

that is enough reason for me... you got my vote

merge that shit please

I have 12k longblade... but not much shortblade and would love to use the PoD and or other melee weapons...

melee is melee lets do this

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If the merging means to get the highest skill (in you case Longblades) and had the TT equivalent of others (SB, Whip, Clubs) and making the new melee skill to give HP like rifle or pistol

I doubt that many people will have reasons to complain.


But if the merge makes that you instead of having 12K Longblades end up with 8000 of a skill that gives no HP

Then most people will complain.
(most likelly you wouln't be able to use your cold blade, and far from PoD too)




So this is my advise to MA:


Then get the TT value of the skills to be erased,
Sum them to obtain the TT value of the skill to be created
Use this value to generate the new skill value
Make this new skill to give HP


(if not don't change anything besides merging the 2 club professions)

Mice said:

I own one of the UL Prism of Destructions and I can only say this is the most awesome weapon I ever used in EU. But at this point (even though im not even considering it) its more or less impossible to sell it for a price that would equal its potential since there is none or a very limited amount of players with the skills for it or the pocket to chip up (if there is skills availible).

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I think the point you address is not so much a problem as it is a given. In a skill-based game with a real cash economy the top items are desired by many yet reachable by only a few. Helena discovered and tried to sell the first UL PoD, failed and took months to acquire the needed skills to effectively use the blade. She never openly tried to sell again.

MA decided to drop another PoD, only a handful players can actually use it. Buying the second one is a risk taken by the buyer since the market for (re)selling it is so small.

The key is that right now there is more supply than demand for end-game items and that only very dedicated (let's avoid the term "insane" since I'm one of them ) Melee users decide to take the route.

Solving the "problem" by merging skills and reducing the diversity in-game is the wrong route. I think the skilling path towards using PoD or Rainbow should be stimulated by increased drop-rate of SIB items. The actual way to do that is a different problem by itself worth a separate thread, so lets not go there.

Anyone who has access to Entropedia and can sort the weapons on highest DPS can see that there are some very attractive Melee toys, so it's not the stats that are the problem.

Just my 2 pec.

/Slupor

Is there any advantage at all to join longblade and shortblade skills?

As far as I remember, I haven't looted a single shortblade, and only a handfull of longblades ((L)).

On one hand, merging skills would open up a bigger market, on the other hand, the demand would be much bigger. The only net result would be the shuffle of who would gain on the change depending on how the merger is done (if skills are averaged or added, and if they are added in terms of skill points or TT value).
For instance one side effect could be that someone who today have say 10k skills+10k skills, matching their current weapon, only get a small skill increase (in terms of skill points) and decided to chip out one of the "old" skills, meaning that market value of the "generic blade" skill would go down.

The probelm with melee in the (L) world is more like, the problem is either you don't have enough PEDs to buy the entire melee weapon offered, or after having bought melee weapons (read: "ammo") for a few hundred PEDs, the auction is effectively depleted. Or in some cases, you're to pay 150% for your "ammo".

Sure there are pretty nice "toys" out there, but only a handfull of players have the option of being able to use them continously.

Bemo said:

Well part of me says yes and part says no. Ok so you merge the 2. Then what? Merge laser and blp? Merge pistol and rifle? Where does it all stop? There should be long blades and short / pistols and rifles/ blp and laser. Each is a defined profession that people choose to follow. If you start to merge weapons then why not just make all in the same group? I agree 100% on the clubbers that the 2 handed and 1 handed get merged but dunno bout the other ones. Just my opinion.

-Bemo-

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Kim|MindArk said:

Yes one must balance this very carefully. The objective must be to remove unnecessary obstacles without oversimplifying the game.

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Answering as meele user... generally i don't like recently simplyfying of everything. I think we lost bit of climate course of that and some of that symplyfying is performed terrible (minig gear, some tols changed for new 106, other not, lot of ppl losing their peds course of MU). However in meelee it can be done and welcomed good by comunity if You simplyfy that but not kill diversity totally.

For example You can merge powerfists, one handed cubber, two handed cubber and whips into one "smash" profession/skill set , and shortblades and longblades into 2nd.

All gets simplified and there still be difference ( like pistol/rifle, laser/blp etc.)

Simply merging all into JUST ONE profession is too much.

valentin said:

When MA plan to change something, I always think that they are planning to create more "nerfs".

The suspicion is based on a pattern that they always follow.

So how much do we need to lose this time.!!!!

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well, thay asked this time so i think there is still chance to be diferent this time, and our skills will be added ( not just leaved biggest one ). I find that kinda obvious. Right Kim ?

shoti said:

For example You can merge powerfists, one handed cubber, two handed cubber and whips into one "smash" profession/skill set , and shortblades and longblades into 2nd.

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Could you all just please leave powerfists alone?

Oleg said:

You wouldn't have to do this. You just need to change 1-handed Clubber to Clubber and make all clubs use that profession.

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But then the only profession to use heavy melee weapons would be LB. Why not do it the other way and make all clubs heavy? Seems a little more balanced to me.

Kim|MindArk said:

Very well it seems as if most people think that merging the clubs would be a good idea and that the longblades / shortblades should be left alone. Ill suggest this at the next design meeting.

Thanks everyone!

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Kind of quick there? This is a big discussion and you seem to want to cut it off before it's really gotten going. Please stick around and consider more viewpoints before rushing off to the meeting.

remontoire said:

Could you all just please leave powerfists alone?

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hm...ok maybe powerfist shall remain separate and let them be like plasman in laser/blp world. On the other hand KIm already made 20 new powerfists so it may be not so bad

Ass long al skils are counting up its NP else it aint a good idea LB and SB not that skilss are disapearing or CASH back

Is blade combat included in melee by the system? The differences between longblade and shortblade combat are far more removed from each other than pistol vs long arm.

Sword vs rapier is another discission, but not worth having at this point since there's no equivalent to rapier combat in-game currently.

No I would leave all of them seperate.

So there are different SIB tracks for all of them ppl can 'work' on.

Putting them toghether you are eliminating some SIB paths, and nerv the diversity.

Make more weapons with a complete SIB tracks (from lvl 0 - 120 or so) in all seperate categories instead!

As a (small-time) melee user, and owner of a unL club that I do use from time to time for fun (Loughlin Masher One), I'd vastly prefer if you guys introduced more melee weapons (In variety and amount), as we're certainly suffering from the lack of choices here. I know you said there would be more Powerfists, but I'd like to know if some of these would be "common" enough to be looted or crafted in a daily basis (Think of the Isis CB13 for example, or the Breer lines of handguns and rifles).

And, I kinda oppose the merge between one-handed and two-handed clubs, as it makes sense they work in a different way (You don't handle a blackjack or a baton the same way you handle a sledgehammer, for example, and they're both concussive weapons). But if there's no hope for introducing enough weapons to easily differentiate the two club professions, then by all means go ahead (Make them all Heavy Melee Weapons though, or else that skill will only do well for Longblades ). Long/shortblade is a different thing though, and there are already many weapons of each type circulating, and balance issues would quickly arise.

So, in a few words, I kinda oppose the club skills merge, I vehemently oppose the blade skills merge.

Snuggins said:

But then the only profession to use heavy melee weapons would be LB. Why not do it the other way and make all clubs heavy? Seems a little more balanced to me.

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I suggested that way because all but one of the existing clubs are 1-handed (assuming Entropedia is correct).