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Who makes money in EU?

BigBertha said:
Thats why there is only dropping L stuff to us, so MA can take back the loss of the "globals"
Well IF everyone stopped putting money ingame (non depositors) i guess MA wont stand a chance with the economy ingame and it would bankrupt?
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Whenever MA runs short on cash they run an event like Land Grab, Merry Mayhem, Robot Mayhem, Mutant Mayhem, 3x skillgains, 2x skillgains, mining events, etc.
MA will never fall short on events that will make people want to deposit, and if they just did 2 LGs/year they could pull in more income while making their players more happy. Why they don't, I do not understand :scratch2:
But then again, I am very young and have little experience with the world of economy so I could be completely wrong :D
 
addz said:
Reminds me of an old saying.

The only way to beat the casino, Is to open a BIGGER casino next door.


Sooooo.... anyone that's good at coding want to start a new RCEMMORPG? :laugh:
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What u need is someone who is good at fundraising (not so easy atm), the rest will come :D.

One person with good coding skills will get u nothing i fear.
 
Let's compare this to most other mmorpgs. I shall use a fictitious example but I think you will understand:
Tropia costs $20 per month to play.
Anyone who plays deposits $20 for each month they play.
Strangely enough they also use PED and started in 2003.

Total funds deposited since 2003: around 500 million PED
Total funds withdrawn since 2003: exactly zero PED
Total player assets as of end 2008: exactly zero PED

That is what I see, economically speaking, as the main difference between EU and other mmorpgs. Other games you KNOW you will get nothing back, in EU there is a possibility of getting something back.
Players who see it in that light do not worry too much about "losing PED" or "the value of items decreasing".

You may own a castle in Tropia but even if you sell it you will still have to keep paying $20 per month to keep playing.
 
Those who do services for other players for the purpose of profit make money in EU.
Those who play purely for fun can make money in EU, but usually don't.
 
:silly2:
davidgr1200 said:
Let's compare this to most other mmorpgs. I shall use a fictitious example but I think you will understand:
Tropia costs $20 per month to play.
Anyone who plays deposits $20 for each month they play.
Strangely enough they also use PED and started in 2003.

Total funds deposited since 2003: around 500 million PED
Total funds withdrawn since 2003: exactly zero PED
Total player assets as of end 2008: exactly zero PED

That is what I see, economically speaking, as the main difference between EU and other mmorpgs. Other games you KNOW you will get nothing back, in EU there is a possibility of getting something back.
Players who see it in that light do not worry too much about "losing PED" or "the value of items decreasing".

You may own a castle in Tropia but even if you sell it you will still have to keep paying $20 per month to keep playing.
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Well, you are right. But that's not really comparable.
You might also say, "pay $20/month to play on an online casino" or "
pay $20/month to play on the lottery everyweek" or even better "put $20/month in your savings bank account"
Your final balance will be different in each case (imagine you win the lottery!) but the service/entertainment won't.

For example, in Tropia, you pay $20/month but after 2 years, maybe you have the best armor and weapon in the game and belong to the top guild. In ENTropia, good luck to have best equipment with $20/month for 2 years (I want to know how :ahh:)
 
MA business model is simple .... loot return value is balanced from in-game PED vs PED in bank .... if there is less PED in bank acc then ingame i.e <100% (like 50% atm) so u get your loot value .... if ppl deposit bank acc value rise i.e VS value rise closer to 100% or even more so u get good loot in return.
Avg loot value per mob kill, mining or craft is calculated by method of spent and decay only thing it`s getting affected by global rate (ingame PED vs bank acc PED).

As before there was big activity and that rate was close to 100% (70%+) so we had very acceptable game play .... only thing is that MA in general think they can stay profitable all time ... but dont think it`s correct ... atm MA should stay on non-loss/profit (balance in-game loot return so) and freeze withdraws (to stimulate economy dont allow withdraws for some time, lets say 4 moths). If you are EU player you wont worry about it (withdraw freeze) and if you are investor (LA, bank etc) you will understand it that EU need some stimulating and another thing is that MA need bring something exciting to ppl return more active to EU as pure craft clicking, same mob grinding and boring mining (1 claim in 15 drops) is not thing what can be entertaining!

My 2 pecs.
 
who makes money in EU?

Pre
gold.jpg
Players Only
 
I think everyone agrees that the numbers, if plotted on a graph, would show a few important lines pointing downwards. What really worries me is that during the last year, about half of our peds stopped being backed with real $. A few players mentioned markup... this doesn't mean squat to MA, all they see are hard peds or TTs... MU is only something taken into account by players, like coubo said, very wisely. If u bought an item for TT+100k, all u have is TT. The seller, on the other hand, has TT+100K, so what u did was just a transfer between accounts of the same "bank" that is EU.
MysterLV said:
As before there was big activity and that rate was close to 100% (70%+) so we had very acceptable game play .... only thing is that MA in general think they can stay profitable all time ... but dont think it`s correct ... atm MA should stay on non-loss/profit (balance in-game loot return so) and freeze withdraws (to stimulate economy dont allow withdraws for some time, lets say 4 moths). If you are EU player you wont worry about it (withdraw freeze) and if you are investor (LA, bank etc) you will understand it that EU need some stimulating and another thing is that MA need bring something exciting to ppl return more active to EU as pure craft clicking, same mob grinding and boring mining (1 claim in 15 drops) is not thing what can be entertaining!

My 2 pecs.
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About your suggestion of MA freezing the withdrawals, MysterLV, they would certainly create panic, and MA would have to deal with long "lines" of people wanting their money after those 4 months.
 
Agree, pre-gold players / resellers / services
 
Dblood1 said:
Agree, pre-gold players / resellers / services
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utter bs..im not pre-gold nor reseller..i just hunt 16 hoursa day..and its almost income like a job,if you cannot profit hunting in pe then you are not using your brain..
 
So meaning youre profiting on regulair basis?

i know i can to (think iam able to) just hunt where ppl spend massive ammount of decay and claim the loot pool :D
 
fluske said:
utter bs..im not pre-gold nor reseller..i just hunt 16 hoursa day..and its almost income like a job,if you cannot profit hunting in pe then you are not using your brain..
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Are your profiting on tt or from markup on loot?

From my experience the markup is the one that keeps some of us in the profit margin but the markup is not that easy to get :)

From my records, the profit is nothing more then a few % from what I cycle. The more I cycle, the higher value in peds those few % means. There's one thing to make 1%-10% from 1000 ped cycled and another to make 1%-10% profit from 1 mil ped cycled. For a hardcore hunter with a high dps weapon cycling 1 mil peds over a certain period of time it's not as much as it might seem.

Sitram
 
LOL, who makes Money...only MA and here fair haired children...(you know who I mean)

The Title says is all...

don't know how many times i've been slapped down for saying this, but, i'll say it again..

MA is gambling, but with a twist, seems its not really 'gambling', but, skills don't really mean anything...

So, what is it, my opinion, its some dude saying you can have an ATH and you can't. It's the same dude, saying "I like you and you can make money" and "I don't like you and you can't"

That is my opinion...

L....:yay:
 
I'd like to make money in EU but didn't loot the blueprints of it yet.
 
fluske said:
utter bs..im not pre-gold nor reseller..i just hunt 16 hoursa day..and its almost income like a job,if you cannot profit hunting in pe then you are not using your brain..
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Agreed, Half the profit/loss is depending on how you play.

An example: Just cause you can kill an atrox doesn't mean you should :D

Also agree with davidgr1200

I could be dumping money into WoW for nothing back or I could just play EU and get some money back in the end.
Your paying for entertainment it is simple as that. If some people can profit on a regular basis, they know how to do it. Then its not gambling.
You can compare it as easily davidgr1200 did. Sure it might take more than 20$ a month for some of you. But again thats all about preference of play.
 
fluske said:
utter bs..im not pre-gold nor reseller..i just hunt 16 hoursa day..and its almost income like a job,if you cannot profit hunting in pe then you are not using your brain..
Click to expand...

Do you TT all your loots?
 
addz said:
Reminds me of an old saying.

The only way to beat the casino, Is to open a BIGGER casino next door.


Sooooo.... anyone that's good at coding want to start a new RCEMMORPG? :laugh:
Click to expand...

i like that saying:D
 
i think we all should do a organized strike for MA realize that need us. the profit that they make is too much and they should give more to high skilled players. if not this is a pure gambling game. what's the point like me being lvl57prosp and lvl 42 attach if i cant profit in loot? if i dont profit who profits?. profits at long term it what u guys speak. but mining 10 hours a day for in end get 100peds profit for me it's not good due the time i spend here. what's the pont of havind 300k in game?
 
travolta said:
i think we all should do a organized strike for MA realize that need us. the profit that they make is too much and they should give more to high skilled players. if not this is a pure gambling game. what's the point like me being lvl57prosp and lvl 42 attach if i cant profit in loot? if i dont profit who profits?. profits at long term it what u guys speak. but mining 10 hours a day for in end get 100peds profit for me it's not good due the time i spend here. what's the pont of havind 300k in game?
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I'm still on my "I'm not depositing until 2 PEC decay is removed!" strike :silly2:
 
Gluepot said:
I'm still on my "I'm not depositing until 2 PEC decay is removed!" strike :silly2:
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i been always non depositor. MA never got one euro from me! but that's couse i start in a time that was possible to play without depositing.
 
I sometimes think there is some confusion about the "economics" of EU.

PED are created at the rate of 10 for every dollar deposited (yes, there are costs but lets keep it simple)

MA's liabilities to us are the PED on our cards and the TT value of items. That is their worst case - everyone cashes in. Note they don't consider this a likely event (we hope) because they actually only have around half the PED equivalent in real cash.

Mark up is irrelevant to MA - its just something that defines how much of his particular part of the existing PED someone might give you for something. It creates no PED, just regulates how it moves around between players.

Decay and fees exist to reduce the PED in existence and hence reduce MA's potential liability (and of course encourage us to deposit more real money for PED).

Unless MA are total idiots, loot (total) in any period never exceeds player expenditure (total - that's ammo, bombs, crafting materials) for the period. If it did then MA would be creating PED and thus increasing their liability. That's unlikely.

So, if we all stopped depositing tomorrow (and kept playing) decay would just reduce the PED in game. Mark up wouldn't create more (only deposits add PED) - it would just continue to regulate how existing PED move around.

Something remarkably similar happens to the real cash we deposit. It goes on MA's bank balance and is decayed (by salaries, investments etc). So again if we stopped depositing that bank balance would continue to reduce until .....

And that is one worrying part of the accounts. The rate at which MA seem to be decaying their cash pile is increasing whilst our deposits are stagnating or decreasing. That money won't last for ever.
 
the one thing i don't see accounted for with all this is the mythical "loot-pool" that magic place in the atrox ass that holds 20k of muscle oil.
 
markup offcourse,and i cycle around 5k-8k ped daily

sitram said:
Are your profiting on tt or from markup on loot?

From my experience the markup is the one that keeps some of us in the profit margin but the markup is not that easy to get :)

From my records, the profit is nothing more then a few % from what I cycle. The more I cycle, the higher value in peds those few % means. There's one thing to make 1%-10% from 1000 ped cycled and another to make 1%-10% profit from 1 mil ped cycled. For a hardcore hunter with a high dps weapon cycling 1 mil peds over a certain period of time it's not as much as it might seem.

Sitram
Click to expand...
 
Gluepot said:
Do you TT all your loots?
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i tt absolutely nothing..if i cant get markup for it now,it goes into storage, at any time i have somewhere around 40-80k tt worth in storage.

it does take time though to screen where the markup is at "this" moment,
and you need some cashflow to survide bad lootperiods
 
Ogulak'Da'Dragon said:
One of the problems with the figures is that Mindark counts assets in TT value - Doesn't include markup on anything.
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That doesnt matter m8. Markup doesnt have anything to do with this picture.

Let me clarify on an example.

It is said ppl depoed 50M and WD 10M
7M ingame in TT value

- you got a modfap from MA - 30$
- you sold a MODFAP to someone for 30k$ 5 yrs later
- thats 30k$ deposit, yet 30k$ more ingame assets (the one who deposited has 30k$ cash) - that money is reflected in ingame TT value
- if someone WD that amount (eg. u sold it to cover your mortgage) - it should reflect in WD amount

Get it? All markup is considered either in TT value (PED card is also TT value) ingame OR player WD amount ;) All the rest - is MA pocket.

I.
 
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