MA should indeed pay attention to this issue:

[Wollongong]

Zyloc wrote something, which was locked due to being a leaving thread. He also got flamed for being a whiner.

In this thread was a bit which I agree with, and which -in my view- needs some serious attention from MA. This bit is after him telling he played for 2.5 years, depositing, working with his soc, skilling and loving the game. Then he says:

I have played even when loosing (most of the time) but skilled up to improve my avatar with the idea that my skills would allow me to hunt bigger mobs and maybe, just maybe things would improve.

I have not seen anything improve as I have progressed which is my main motivation, to try and be the best.

There have been things that have upset me as I have played including lack of transparency with mayhem results.

I fully agree with this bit. We all are, or have been, skilling in order to be able to finally get those better results. But is this really happening? Personally, I have not seen it either. I have seen a decline in mining returns, to the point where I had to stop blowing up the planet (I love blowing up stuff). I am now occassionally hunting snables. With my skills, I should be able to get a great return from them, but no. Not even break even. I even noticed MISSING them more often. I used to do three shots for a snable with Opalo, now I need about 5.... higher skills, more misses?

Zyloc continues his story about other players getting huge loots, due to their higher investments, and acknowledges this is okay. I agree with this as well. However, he also points out that:

Fine I said to myself they have invested and skilled and deserve it and one day that could be me.
I do not believe that this will be the case.

I fear this is correct as well. Those who are at the top now get the income, and thereby can invest to stay at the top. How are those who came later ever going to be able to get the top in sight?

He goes on about only the top soc being able to play the LG. I don't care much about it, but agree it is kinda odd that it is not open to all who have a gun...

I believe MA seriously needs to redesign the game to turn it into something where everyone has a fair chance. A game also, where this fair chance is visible, and not fully depending on randomness, but also on dedication.(After killing snables for a year, I think an average tt return of 95% isn't too much to ask).

Because if it is true that those who invested big will always remain on the top... EU would become much like a Ponzi scheme.

I do not know why, but I still have hope for the future of this game (game, not casino, or investment).

 

[Droops]

(After killing snables for a year, I think an average tt return of 95% isn't too much to ask).

Even less then 95% would be fine compared to what most people are getting for to long now, <50% returns

 

[Wollongong]

Bad comparison mate...

something isn't "fine" because the current situation is even worse.

 

[FilthyMcNasty]

It has allready been stated that MA makes their money by tt profit. Everything past 100% tt is pure profit for the players. Due to depo's amd recirculating currency, the MU profit is mostly fueled by the players. I don't see why MA can't do a 95% return tt. Then of course, I do not know their internal workings either

 

[KeynesAlley]

Counting all my globals and 1 HoF, I've made 2,800ish PED which were pumped right back into the "game". My last global or HoF was April 2007.

For more than 2 years now I've been in a cycle of huge loses.

 

[Wollongong]

Please guys, try to keep this thread a pro-active and constructive discussion on how MA could improve things. Let us not allow this to devolve in a "my loss is worse than yours"-thread (and believe me, I *KNOW* it is hard...)

 

[KeynesAlley]

I wasn't comparing loses, just showing that depositing and skilling don't make a difference in this game.

That was what was talked about in the thread you mentioned.

 

[Witte]

Seems to me you have a major misunderstanding of the game mechanics. Where did you get the idea that more skills would (significantly) improve your returns on snables? After level 5 you won't notice an improvement at all.

Why do you want a game that you don't like, but others do, to be changed? Just go play another game and let the people why like this game be.

And a Ponzi scheme? Do you have any clue what that is?

 

[KeynesAlley]

After level 5 you won't notice an improvement at all.

Maybe that's true, but as he pointed out, it now takes 5 shots instead of 3.

So more skills means more misses.

And a Ponzi scheme? Do you have any clue what that is?

A Ponzi scheme is where you pay money to one investor from other investors' money. It's a form of pyramid scheme.

 

[Pepto]

I fully agree with this bit. We all are, or have been, skilling in order to be able to finally get those better results. But is this really happening? Personally, I have not seen it either. I have seen a decline in mining returns, to the point where I had to stop blowing up the planet (I love blowing up stuff). I am now occassionally hunting snables. With my skills, I should be able to get a great return from them, but no. Not even break even. I even noticed MISSING them more often. I used to do three shots for a snable with Opalo, now I need about 5.... higher skills, more misses?

I have noticed this on a small scale. Back when I began hunting snables and daikiba I looted oil residue, muscle oil, various ammos, occasional pixie. Some skill later I was started to get hide in increasing amounts and started to get wools too. Now If I grab an Opalo and go hunt snables and daikiba I get the same as before and now I also get snable skin and daikiba skin, sometimes a daikiba horn.

NOT the increase in loots I thought they meant when they said better loots with higher skills but enough for them to say it is happening. I will point out that it's not that the loots I average out on now are worth more TT than before but the skins and hides at least could be used for crafting after you collect a certain amount thus increasing the loot amount further down the line (depending on crafting success).

So not much but I do see a difference of some kind in loot dependant on skills

 

[sob]

Maybe that's true, but as he pointed out, it now takes 5 shots instead of 3.

So more skills means more misses.

Thats just guessing and excluding everything else.
Unless you place several low skilled players and high skilled players next to each other on the same connection with the same specs and still get that result...

It could be changes in the ingame mechanics, it could be caused by an unstable network from your side or MAs side ect.

Progress in EU is when you can kill a more difficult mob just as easily as you used to be able to kill the easier mob, thus getting more turnover for the same amount of work.

 

[Wollongong]

And a Ponzi scheme? Do you have any clue what that is?

No, I just like to make up words and throw them into a thread ...
*sigh*

 

[KeynesAlley]

He's not the only one to notice this. A lot of people are seeing that they need more shots than before to kill mobs.

This means more loss for the average player, so MA can give bigger ATHs to a few players, while raking in the dough.

If it's an internet thing, then it must be on MA's side since people all over the world are seeing the exact same thing, unless suddenly every internet company started to suck.

 

[Pirx Danford]

The core of this problem is not the loot but the content.

And the current engine makes it incredibly difficult to provide and maintain good content.
You can already notice increased motivation by FPC to provide better communications and when a company will be solely devoted to maintain Calypso and provide content - combined with the easy to use SDK of the cry engine - the situation is bound to get improved a lot.

We do have to wait and see what happens.

 

[sob]

He's not the only one to notice this. A lot of people are seeing that they need more shots than before to kill mobs.

This means more loss for the average player, so MA can give bigger ATHs to a few players, while raking in the dough.

If it's an internet thing, then it must be on MA's side since people all over the world are seeing the exact same thing, unless suddenly every internet company started to suck.

Im not saying that people dont have that experience.

But saying that "more skills = more misses" is a very bold and apparently a very emotional claim. I would also say its probably one of the most unlikely explanations.

My experience is that it comes and goes. Sometimes I miss ALOT and other times I hardly miss at all.
To be more clear; It could be that they changed the "hit rate algorithm" making it more random/unstable, or high network utilization at MAs end at certain hours due to high activity, or someone in the house downloading someting. Its also possible that when you are in a bad mood (due to bad loot, dying alot ect) you are more aware of the misses and it can sometimes feel like you are missing more than you usualy do. It can just as well be a combination of all on different levels.

 

[TheRock]

What i really see MA should do to improve is to be MORE fair!
How fair is it when u hunt snabel 1 year without a global for example and then comes someone for firts time hunting and gets a 1k HoF? oO

Or those rich ***** u know in game seeing hem getting more and more ATH, uber items as if they need them. Grow up MA!!!!

 

[Tree-doctor]

Well, some people can tank this pressure, some cant. MA will never say how things work. IRL u have many kinds of comportements and i can describe 2:

- U have the people who trust in themself, who do things without minding about who win what or who do what, and finaly stay and have the possibility to success.

- U have the people who not realy trust in themself, who trust a lot the boss (MA here), who always "think" things when the boss never said anything. Those guys are always strongly disapointed.

To be honest, for my part, im between those two description with PE.

 

[Witte]

Maybe that's true, but as he pointed out, it now takes 5 shots instead of 3.

So more skills means more misses.

Proof? Seen this often before yet every single test implies the opposite.

A Ponzi scheme is where you pay money to one investor from other investors' money. It's a form of pyramid scheme.

And how does it apply to hunting?

No, I just like to make up words and throw them into a thread ...
*sigh*

You don't need to state the obvious.

 

[fnalig]

Getting more and more obvious MA have their "Favorites" . At least when you go to a casino and put some coins in a slotmachine, your NAME wont affect the outcome

 

[Wollongong]

hehehe, that made me laugh

 

[Witte]

hehehe, that made me laugh

Well you make me laugh too

 

[KeynesAlley]

Proof? Seen this often before yet every single test implies the opposite.

It's happening all the time to a lot of player.

No matter what proofs anyone can provide, you will just claim that X, Y and Z are the cause and dismiss it in favor of MA.

And how does it apply to hunting?

Crap returns for most players while a few get the big wins from MA.

It also applies to mining and crafting.

 

[Witte]

It's happening all the time to a lot of player.

No matter what proofs anyone can provide, you will just claim that X, Y and Z are the cause and dismiss it in favor of MA.

False. If you provide me with a test of say 1000 shots and you can clearly show me that your hit-rate is lower than is should be then I believe you. But guess what, nobody ever did. On the other had, multiple persons provided tests that showed the hit-rate did increase with higher skills. That is the reason I dismiss these kind of theories.

Crap returns for most players while a few get the big wins from MA.

It also applies to mining and crafting.

A Ponzi scheme means that people invest money. Hunting is not investing. It also means that the party that receives the investments promises profit, and makes himself creditable by paying out other inverters money. Essential for a Ponzi scheme is that it is a scam. Since those conditions are not met, it is not a Ponzi scheme. EU just has some mild similarities, just like a stock market, estate market, casino, grocery store, bar, etc.

 

[Harvest]

10/10 = 42% see math is easy.

Your chance of success is not going to get 'better' than that. So with out the skills for 10/10 that means your chances suck worse than the 42%. You skill up and for what? So you can use a higher dps(cost per click) weapon? Your reward is being able to cause decay faster and fighting mobs that have high hp and doing more decay.

MA's main goal IMO is to make sure NO ONE PROFITS! You dont get to leave entropia with the shirt on your back, not noob, not uber...no one.

Enjoy losing money playing small or enjoy losing money playing big. Just imagine for one sec that this is a casino. You bet small, you win small...you bet big and put down lots of ped per click you win lots of peds per click. Same with loses.

I think the cost of play is a huge issue. Ppl are losing interest due to lack of content and theres no way they can justify the entertainment they receive for the price they pay. Whats fun about having to stick to a formula and the best that formula can provide you is crap?

 

[KeynesAlley]

False. If you provide me with a test of say 1000 shots and you can clearly show me that your hit-rate is lower than is should be then I believe you. But guess what, nobody ever did. On the other had, multiple persons provided tests that showed the hit-rate did increase with higher skills. That is the reason I dismiss these kind of theories.

I'll take my own experiences and the word of a lot of other players over the word of 1 pro MA player any day.

A Ponzi scheme means that people invest money. Hunting is not investing. It also means that the party that receives the investments promises profit, and makes himself creditable by paying out other inverters money. Essential for a Ponzi scheme is that it is a scam. Since those conditions are not met, it is not a Ponzi scheme. EU just has some mild similarities, just like a stock market, estate market, casino, grocery store, bar, etc.

Hunting isn't investing?

So MA lied when they say it's "a real cash economy"?

People invest real money in hunting in hopes of getting something in return.

So either it's bordering on a Ponzi scheme or it's gambling, both of which MA deny.

 

[Witte]

I'll take my own experiences and the word of a lot of other players over the word of 1 pro MA player any day.

Yup, you base your opinion on prejudice and hearsay. I base my opinion on dozens of extensive tests by multiply players.

Hunting isn't investing?

So MA lied when they say it's "a real cash economy"?

Do you consider buying a beer at a bar an investment?

People invest real money in hunting in hopes of getting something in return.

Buying hunting gear is not under debate. Spending money on hunting is not investing, and nobody (at MA) is claiming that.

So either it's bordering on a Ponzi scheme or it's gambling, both of which MA deny.

Its not bordering a Ponzi scheme because there is no scam. That is an essential property of a ponzi scheme. And about gambling, IMO hunting is indeed very similar. The opinion of MA is irrelevant, they just quote what the law says.

 

[Joser]

Yup, you base your opinion on prejudice and hearsay. I base my opinion on dozens of extensive tests by multiply players.



Do you consider buying a beer at a bar an investment?



Buying hunting gear is not under debate. Spending money on hunting is not investing, and nobody (at MA) is claiming that.



Its not bordering a Ponzi scheme because there is no scam. That is an essential property of a ponzi scheme. And about gambling, IMO hunting is indeed very similar. The opinion of MA is irrelevant, they just quote what the law says.

Witte, you may want to let this one go, man. It's a bit hard to convince a brick wall to be anything other than a brick wall.

 

[demonseedgfx]

The core of this problem is not the loot but the content.

And the current engine makes it incredibly difficult to provide and maintain good content.
You can already notice increased motivation by FPC to provide better communications and when a company will be solely devoted to maintain Calypso and provide content - combined with the easy to use SDK of the cry engine - the situation is bound to get improved a lot.

We do have to wait and see what happens.

TOTALLY WRONG. I'm heading off topic here folks sorry. The current engine Gamebryo is a very powerfull engine. The engine now has lightspeed which means content can be worked on by any number of artists and coders live. Thats correct live. Meaning that if they wanted too they could add new mobs/loot/weapons anything without a reboot of the servers. The engine is c++ based the same as Cryengine 2 and also works with lua and flash mods the same. Blaming the engine for lack of content is again totally wrong. On the plus side the cryengine handle graphics alot better and its terrain editor is far better. Content is not down to anything other than the company making the game. The tools cannot be blamed here its deffo the craftsmen using them. That been said I love the game thats why I'm here.

 

[KeynesAlley]

Witte, you may want to let this one go, man. It's a bit hard to convince a brick wall to be anything other than a brick wall.

And obviously we can't convince the fanboys/girls of anything either.

 

[Sapeian]

Personally,
Ive played for 3 years,
I dont deposit much at all,
And my returns have been quite fair i think in terms of what i have deposited,

Yet its nowehere near what i deposited,
I can see a clear rise in return after i have just deposited,
sometimes even globals.

I have never had a hof,

And i dont know if i ever will,

But I dont think MA need to change anything,

I think too many people expect a return from this game,
If you go to a shop and buy a Chocolate bar,
Your money is then gone,
and even more so once you have eaten the chocolate bar,

I wont go into detail on what the return is
But you can guess,

Eu isnt like a casino the odds are diffrent,
If its a casino you want then there is loads around on the internet,

MA is alot more Diffrent,
Its a game with an RCE and It really I think down to the individuals luck at the time.


Thats just my thoughts anyway.

Sapeian.