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Suggestion: PVP4 needs attention

Said Theocles from Holy Moly a society who can go only in groups to pvp :D.Anything else you want for pvp?maybe players that die on line of sight so they surrender you their loot?If you are smart you get them anyway if not is nature selection such a crybaby with those skills.And I say this because I remember waiting you behind a tree and you got scared a few days ago, scary to get claim alone huh?and you come here and talk about cowards?
 
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Doesn't matter
 
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mihaimnb said:
Now that attitude is offending maybe one of those 50 dudes will be bigger then you one day since you will just get old and rusty...I mean who knows?Isn't it okay to respect all players of all levels since even if they don't have your experience they still have a brain and are able to think and asess situations(at least to some extent)?
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Spot on :)

This is a long term game and players can have long term goals and long term memories.
I am sure there will be a time in the future when you will be reminded of your attitude Alina and made to regret it :D
 
Raffaele Meiers said:
Lets have a new rule implemented by MA that if you kill someone in PVP then he only can loot as much TT as he has lootable stuff carring while killing the other Avatar.

1) More exiting for PK'er as he can also loose stuff and not only some ammo
2) More exiting for Miners and Hunters as he not only can loose but also gain something when fighting a PK'er - so not only one party can loose in fight but also the attacked player has a incentive to fight back as he knows he could also gain something when killing the attacker so change from a LOOSE(Miner/Hunter) - WIN(PK'er) situation to a WIN(Miner/Hunter) - WIN(PK'er) situation as both can get something for the kill not only the PK'er as today
3) Only loosing as much as the other one is also risking to loose - Evens out that playing field between hunter/miner and PK'ers
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this is actually good info MA should implement this in some way
 
As he does not want to answer it I will answer it for him.

Why dont want PK'ers that they only can loot as much as they have lootable stuff on them?

There are several explanations to this:

1) They would risk of loosing stuff while fighting other miner/hunter
2) Someone could make a living of hunting down PK'ers as everyone would have some lootable stuff carrying now as opposed to before where PK'ers did not carry lootable stuff
3) Today when a PK'er meets a PK'er in PvP they mostly go their way because they know that the other will 99% of time not have any lootable stuff on them so a fight would be most of the time Peds lost in Ammo, Decay, MU on their L Stuff and Toxic Shot

They, PK'er allways say they do this for the exitment, when everyone would have loot in PvP then that would be even more exiting as they could loose also some stuff so it would be even more suspense, they would have more posssible fights in PvP as the other PK'ers would also have loot so much more targets for a fight than only the miners and hunters.

But they fear that maybe some real uber would start to police PvP as he not only would kill PK'ers and maybe get something from the Toxic Shots but he could also get loot form the killed PK'ers and would make more peds than hunting.

So the real reason they do not want to only be able to loot as much as they carry is that they would stop profiting from "stealing" from others without risking anything doing it.
They like to profit without risking anything and dont want MA to change it.
 
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Raffaele Meiers said:
What does it take away from their fun if they only can loot as much as they risk? Can you or Cirrus answer this as you allways state it is about PK'ing and not getting Peds or am I wrong?
BTW they still get the Peds from the Toxic shots which according to Cirrus also can be a four figure amount.
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this is what made people like me want to skill and get decent gear so one day if i choose to enter a lootable zone id stand a chance to save my loot via heavy defence ,, loosing all u earned ensures u either dont go in or u make sure u have the skills and gear to protect it ,, pretty fukin simple its not rocket science
 
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FunkyFishy said:
no its not ,, while were at it lets abolish all skills different armors and weapons and make everyone have the same gear armor weapons and keep pvp lootable !!!!
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So both having to risk something is the same thing as making everyone having the same gear and skills? Seams your logic is a bit messed up.
 
Alina said:
at this point im sure we argue with some dudes that are not even level 50....waste of time as usual :D
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So, did you never express an opinion until you reached level 50? I bet you did. Shocking arrogance.
 
Raffaele Meiers said:
3) Today when a PK'er meets a PK'er in PvP they mostly go their way because they know that the other will 99% of time not have any lootable stuff on them so a fight would be most of the time Peds lost in Ammo, Decay, MU on their L Stuff and Toxic Shot
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That is 100% false.
 
Elfie said:
So, did you never express an opinion until you reached level 50? I bet you did. Shocking arrogance.
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You have the typical response. Its like every time you call someone out for not having a clue about the subject you are an arrogant so according to you we should just let anyone around spread wrong information, like some crafters,miners and hunters on this forum which for years can't figure out nothing and then you guys complain that are no new players in this game. Well some of those new players might read some of those wrong comments and make a bad impression about the game.
 
Alina said:
You have the typical response. Its like every time you call someone out for not having a clue about the subject you are an arrogant so according to you we should just let anyone around spread wrong information, like some crafters,miners and hunters on this forum which for years can't figure out nothing and then you guys complain that are no new players in this game. Well some of those new players might read some of those wrong comments and make a bad impression about the game.
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Actually, over the years, I recruited about a dozen new players to the game, all real life friends, and some became big depositors and even ubers. A forum is for every player to give an opinion, even if others do not agree with it.

I love the thrill and risk of lootable PVP, and so do others. Even new players below level 50, have a valid opinion and should be listened to and allowed to express it here and not be dismissed because they are fairly new on the scene. That's what keeps the player base and the forum alive and interesting. :)
 
Yap i have no problem with him expressing but i have a problem when he said its oke to be "smart" and use a helmet and then rocket to keep you life low. When MA added those helmets in game they had 100 deregen they changed that but its still abused.
 
Alina said:
Yap i have no problem with him expressing but i have a problem when he said its oke to be "smart" and use a helmet and then rocket to keep you life low. When MA added those helmets in game they had 100 deregen they changed that but its still abused.
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You can't blame him for using the game mechanics to escape. If MA chooses to change the mechanics, they will, if not, just accept that players who use them to escape getting looted are playing smart, and in their view are not exploiting, but just using the mechanics. Should they just give up and get shot and looted and then often mocked at the revive which does happen? Or should they use the mechanics as they are?
 
Elfie said:
You can't blame him for using the game mechanics to escape. If MA chooses to change the mechanics, they will, if not, just accept that players who use them to escape getting looted are playing smart, and in their view are not exploiting, but just using the mechanics. Should they just give up and get shot and looted and then often mocked at the revive which does happen? Or should they use the mechanics as they are?
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If it were simply "using the mechanics" then everyone who used Yog buff to increase weapon reload would have simply been "using the mechanics" as well.

They are exploiting.
 
So much noise from those that spend nearly zero time in pvp always makes me laugh in these types of threads. PvPers ARE the miners and hunters that frequent the zone the most. They constantly are putting their loot at risk and hold massive RISK in the tens of thousands of peds of items that they have that they deposited for, and their return on is quite dismal. The person suggesting that there needs to be a fair balance of loot carried by all players to be able to loot the same amount off of other players, this is just plain garbage. Take out the trash please. The main risk at that point goes to the PKers, as they would be engaged with other PKs constantly but potentially losing massively. The cheaters now, in this system either would always run, potentially just not even come to pvp anymore, or even in death cause the PKer to then be a target of other PKs. Would be an escalation of potential loss to PKs. Much more risk to the PKs. How about we have a fair amount of value spent on the price of items themselves, instead of competing with broken ass (L) deregen helmets and (L) rockets that allow escape from the rules of the pvp zone time and time again. This type of game is based on real cash right? Why even own expensive items? What is the point? Loot 2.0 you can still barely come back to tt in hunting. You expect PKers that some have spent hundreds of thousands of peds in their items to share the same burden with those players that have spent near zero and are violating the principles of the game itself?
 
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Xen said:
If it were simply "using the mechanics" then everyone who used Yog buff to increase weapon reload would have simply been "using the mechanics" as well.

They are exploiting.
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There is a big difference though. The Yog Buff robbed other legitimate competitors in the Mayhem from competing on an equal playing field so other players lost out due to the outright cheating of some. The PVP matter the player just gets to keep their loot. I'm not saying I am right, but the Yog Buff was an unintentional bug, whereas the not being looted below 50% seems by design so I just see it differently.
 
Elfie said:
There is a big difference though. The Yog Buff robbed other legitimate competitors in the Mayhem from competing on an equal playing field so other players lost out due to the outright cheating of some. The PVP matter the player just gets to keep their loot. I'm not saying I am right, but the Yog Buff was an unintentional bug, whereas the not being looted below 50% seems by design so I just see it differently.
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Berserker helms were never intended to be used for this purpose but I would say the real broken mechanic is the “must do over 50% damage in order to loot”
Change this and you are golden.
 
ZippO said:
So much noise from those that spend nearly zero time in pvp always makes me laugh in these types of threads. PvPers ARE the miners and hunters that frequent the zone the most. They constantly are putting their loot at risk and hold massive RISK in the tens of thousands of peds of items that they have that they deposited for, and their return on is quite dismal. The person suggesting that there needs to be a fair balance of loot carried by all players to be able to loot the same amount off of other players, this is just plain garbage. Take out the trash please. The main risk at that point goes to the PKers, as they would be engaged with other PKs constantly but potentially losing massively. The cheaters now, in this system either would always run, potentially just not even come to pvp anymore, or even in death cause the PKer to then be a target of other PKs. Would be an escalation of potential loss to PKs. Much more risk to the PKs. How about we have a fair amount of value spent on the price of items themselves, instead of competing with broken ass (L) deregen helmets and (L) rockets that allow escape from the rules of the pvp zone time and time again. This type of game is based on real cash right? Why even own expensive items? What is the point? Loot 2.0 you can still barely come back to tt in hunting. You expect PKers that some have spent hundreds of thousands of peds in their items to share the same burden with those players that have spent near zero and are violating the principles of the game itself?
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The system recognizes only TT-in/TT-out. Fairness can only relate to that.

MU goes to players, which means money is spent. Holding high priced items (including deeds) is not a risk you can advocate. You just paid, whether deposited or not, PEDs are gone, and that′s it. This can never be a balancing matter (or grounds to adjust game mechanics).

:dunno:
 
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GradenFoss said:
The system recognizes only TT-in/TT-out. Fairness can only relate to that.

MU goes to players, which means money is spent. Holding high priced items (including deeds) is not a risk you can advocate. You just paid, whether deposited or not, PEDs are gone, and that′s it. This can never be a balancing matter (or grounds to adjust game mechanics).

:dunno:
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Didn't know you wrote the rules of this engagement m8. Sorry..... ?. Just TT in and TT out, and Rules that suggest if you are killed you are looted. Exploits not welcome. There is a red border, and the zone is vast. The risk may still be worth it. I know it was when PvP1 was the only pvp zone in Entropia, and CK were saying nobody is allowed in here. I mined under their noses constantly. Every time I died it took me 20 minutes to get back to where i was (had to run as a ghost from where i died all the way back to revive and then revive, and run back and hope i didn't die to the atrox or calams or more CKs that were constantly mining the area too, helped i was friends with one or two ;)) kicking butt with my mining, couldn't miss when dropping. Also died a ton when first lootable zones were created. PvP 3 i was always going up against the Warants types of the game, I was looted more times than i care to admit. Did i ever try and find exploit? Nope.. if I was caught with pants down I usually tried to get as many mobs on me as possible to get them to kill me, but was pretty tough when they had the drop and nice ranged weapons vs my armor. :) Early PvP4 was my favorite zone. Died in there probably hundreds of times with loot as a miner. Never tried to exploit though.
 
mihaimnb said:
Said Theocles from Holy Moly a society who can go only in groups to pvp :D.Anything else you want for pvp?maybe players that die on line of sight so they surrender you their loot?If you are smart you get them anyway if not is nature selection such a crybaby with those skills.And I say this because I remember waiting you behind a tree and you got scared a few days ago, scary to get claim alone huh?and you come here and talk about cowards?
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Lol? Yeah that sounds like me, I always ask people to watch me drill claims.. And considering the only claim I had over 500p in months was an iron claim that I drilled right after getting, Im going to go ahead and guess you are full of shit. But enjoy sitting behind your trees man.

I find it comical how many names I see in the pvp threads, of people who are just spouting garbage.

So lets add a little truth to your statement, I was probably running with someone who asked me to help them drill a hof. Yes, that is a thing that happens, other societies do the same.

But yeah you are right, I do get scared in pvp. Makes sense to spend the majority of my time in game, in a place that scares me :D :D
 
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Raffaele Meiers said:
As he does not want to answer it I will answer it for him.

Why dont want PK'ers that they only can loot as much as they have lootable stuff on them?

There are several explanations to this:

1) They would risk of loosing stuff while fighting other miner/hunter
2) Someone could make a living of hunting down PK'ers as everyone would have some lootable stuff carrying now as opposed to before where PK'ers did not carry lootable stuff
3) Today when a PK'er meets a PK'er in PvP they mostly go their way because they know that the other will 99% of time not have any lootable stuff on them so a fight would be most of the time Peds lost in Ammo, Decay, MU on their L Stuff and Toxic Shot

They, PK'er allways say they do this for the exitment, when everyone would have loot in PvP then that would be even more exiting as they could loose also some stuff so it would be even more suspense, they would have more posssible fights in PvP as the other PK'ers would also have loot so much more targets for a fight than only the miners and hunters.

But they fear that maybe some real uber would start to police PvP as he not only would kill PK'ers and maybe get something from the Toxic Shots but he could also get loot form the killed PK'ers and would make more peds than hunting.

So the real reason they do not want to only be able to loot as much as they carry is that they would stop profiting from "stealing" from others without risking anything doing it.
They like to profit without risking anything and dont want MA to change it.
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I fail to realize how someone whom I have never seen in pvp a single time has such an opinion of "pk'ers" But its kind of funny and a bit sad. Yes, pvp4 can be profitable, Im sure sitting in space was profitable for NVE if they sat there 18hrs a day, sounds fun right?

Mining in pvp can be profitable, thus the entire purpose of this thread which was to point out that avatars who have no intention to pvp or fight for the markup they are claiming in these zones. Shooting a rocket at the ground and intentionally doing damage to yourself should not make it impossible to be looted, thus calling it an exploit as there is multiple people doing this daily.

And stealing... this is the term i love best when it comes to pvp4, is it stealing if you go to a horse track and lose money?? No, you made the choice to go in the zone yourself, you made the choice to carry what you had on you, or not check your vehicles before entering the zone which warns you it is a lootable zone. So the term stealing does not really apply.
 
Katie Chalmers said:
Berserker helms were never intended to be used for this purpose but I would say the real broken mechanic is the “must do over 50% damage in order to loot”
Change this and you are golden.
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I get what you are saying, but I would still suggest at the moment using the Beserker Helm is not an exploit but utilizing a game mechanic, and for the record I do not do this myself but if I did choose to do so I would not see an issue and do not when other players do this.

For example. When I was a little girl Papa used to say to me 'Angelica be smart in life, and always obey the two rules of business. No1, always maintain your word, keep your integrity, and fulfill every promise you make." Me and my siblings all knew the answer to the second one, but papa would sit there sucking on his pipe and blowing smoke rings until, as the youngest I was expected to ask, 'Papa, what is the second rule." He would smile and say 'Don't make stupid promises you don't want to keep."

Here is a hypothetical scenario for those who say players in lootable pvp should not use the Beserker helm mechanic. If you are uber, and lets say you hit a hypothetical 1 million ped tower in pvp4. Your time to collect is is fast running out, and you have 5 minutes left to TP in, and get out with your loot, and the tower is being camped by other ubers. Maybe your soc friends TP in to distract the campers, and you go in to collect the loot and get out as fast as possible. In that scenario with current mechanics, would the smart thing be to go in at full health knowing you could be looted, or to TP in as fast as you can, with low health, click and collect and even if shot knowing you have secured a very, very big reward. What would be the smart thing to do atm? Would you who complain about current players collecting their loot, honestly say you would not yourself use this mechanic to get your 1 million ped loot? I BET YOU ALL WOULD :)
 
Elfie said:
I get what you are saying, but I would still suggest at the moment using the Beserker Helm is not an exploit but utilizing a game mechanic, and for the record I do not do this myself but if I did choose to do so I would not see an issue and do not when other players do this.

For example. When I was a little girl Papa used to say to me 'Angelica be smart in life, and always obey the two rules of business. No1, always maintain your word, keep your integrity, and fulfill every promise you make." Me and my siblings all knew the answer to the second one, but papa would sit there sucking on his pipe and blowing smoke rings until, as the youngest I was expected to ask, 'Papa, what is the second rule." He would smile and say 'Don't make stupid promises you don't want to keep."

Here is a hypothetical scenario for those who say players in lootable pvp should not use the Beserker helm mechanic. If you are uber, and lets say you hit a hypothetical 1 million ped tower in pvp4. Your time to collect is is fast running out, and you have 5 minutes left to TP in, and get out with your loot, and the tower is being camped by other ubers. Maybe your soc friends TP in to distract the campers, and you go in to collect the loot and get out as fast as possible. In that scenario with current mechanics, would the smart thing be to go in at full health knowing you could be looted, or to TP in as fast as you can, with low health, click and collect and even if shot knowing you have secured a very, very big reward. What would be the smart thing to do atm? Would you who complain about current players collecting their loot, honestly say you would not yourself use this mechanic to get your 1 million ped loot? I BET YOU ALL WOULD :)
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I had a million ped hof sitting there I would just bribe the Uber’s not to kill me. :p

What I definitely wouldn’t do is put my million PEDs at risk by dancing precariously in some grey area exploit.
 
Katie Chalmers said:
I had a million ped hof sitting there I would just bribe the Uber’s not to kill me. :p

What I definitely wouldn’t do is put my million PEDs at risk by dancing precariously in some grey area exploit.
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You would be putting trust in people some of whom, like a few top societies I mean, have members of their society currently banned for cheating. Personally I would not trust any member of a society that still has not condemned the cheating of its own society members or removed them from their society. Also, despite any agreement they previously made with you, if they did kill you and looted you and got your 1 million ped, they would claim all is fair in lootable pvp, its been done in the past when agreements in pvp were broke and players looted, not with 1 mill ped loot though :).

Merry Mayhem cheaters and their societies that have not condemned them but complain about the pvp4 matter, IRONY HUH? I hope none of those currently complaining about the players who use the beserker helm are either in the same society as the mayhem banned cheaters, or friends with them, and are staying silent on that cheating whilst complaining about this issue?


Anyhoo, genuine question, has this actually been declared an exploit by MA because if so, I would agree with you, but if not, then it is surely a game mechanic being put to use.
 
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Elfie said:
You would be putting trust in people some of whom, like a few top societies I mean, have members of their society currently banned for cheating. Personally I would not trust any member of a society that still has not condemned the cheating of its own society members or removed them from their society. Anyhoo, genuine question, has this actually been declared an exploit by MA because if so, I would agree with you, but if not, then it is surely a game mechanic being put to use.
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Maybe, sort of, I think so. Probably. We will see?

Just to add, as it was asked; yes, MindArk are aware of the issues, and I have forwarded this thread to the team.
 
Katie Chalmers said:
Maybe, sort of, I think so. Probably. We will see?

Just to add, as it was asked; yes, MindArk are aware of the issues, and I have forwarded this thread to the team.
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Haha, brilliant answer in your first line even if as a trained lawyer I would have fun dissecting that in real life .

Your second line, that maybe will be the resolve. If MA declare it an exploit, that is the end of discussion and they either fix the 'bug' or players know. However, if a player genuinely goes in with the B helm on, say loots a Mul for 1 mill ped and is at low health, 10%, and a uber turns up shoots them and does not get the loot, would this be fair if the one with the B helm was banned?

I think even if MA declare it an exploit, without the mechanic fix, innocent players could also fall fail.

Nice debating with you Katie, maybe, sort of, I think... :)
 
Elfie said:
Haha, brilliant answer in your first line even if as a trained lawyer I would have fun dissecting that in real life .

Your second line, that maybe will be the resolve. If MA declare it an exploit, that is the end of discussion and they either fix the 'bug' or players know. However, if a player genuinely goes in with the B helm on, say loots a Mul for 1 mill ped and is at low health, 10%, and a uber turns up shoots them and does not get the loot, would this be fair if the one with the B helm was banned?

I think even if MA declare it an exploit, without the mechanic fix, innocent players could also fall fail.

Nice debating with you Katie, maybe, sort of, I think... :)
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Yes I could see your point about innocent users of the berserker helm getting the ban hammer, that's why I and others have suggested the much more simpler "Loot player from any HP%" mechanic.

When I didn't have the money for reload rings, I would often wear the berserker to go in and to the daily's purely to speed up my encounters, and because I was (and still am) a noobish level player I would get beat around by the Mul a lot, always with significant damage to my health. What I had no idea on at the time was that the majority of the time I was infact immune from being looted. But I was completely unaware of this.
Somebody could of TPed in, saw my helmet, saw my low hp because I hadn't healed yet, and reported me. Then I could be banned for something I didn't even know I was doing wrong.
Wearing helmets and being damaged aren't exploits, its how you use those mechanics that is. But I think it will be really hard to prove intent.

PS. that second line I wrote was meant to be a quote from Ludvig earlier in this thread, I guffed it up.
 
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