Suggestion: Make Loot Meaningful

[Rocket192]

Loot in every profession feels incredibly mundane and uninteresting. Margins are incredibly small for even the best hunters, and output far exceeds demand for just about every material and resource in the game. In my opinion this is not sustainable for both an economic and entertainment aspect.


I propose the following:

1) place shrapnel into the mining loot pool at a consistent rate above 50% of average loot (in TT, not claims)
2) Reduce the drop frequency of all materials (oils, hides, wools, excl. tier and other components) by a minimum of 90%


shrapnel conversions would skyrocket of course and this would cause CLD revenues to plummet, but it's a small price to pay and people who don't even play the game shouldn't care anyways. There is too much output in the current system and I don't see how MA could possibly increase demand when every change made over the last 6+ years has resulted in reduced demand for looted items.

every item looted should have a meaningful impact on a player's gaming experience. it should be exciting to loot oils/hides and it should feel good to hit repeated claims of caldorite/iron.

 

[Edward-James]

Uhm sry....i fully disagree with ya. on point #2 (Nr 1 is ok)
...Oils and Hides are very important for crafters too......( if you have too many ...then swap it in the [4tt] channel for shrap or something else
all craft products would rise like ..... and their further products even too...also arm guns have a craft chain which uses oils and stuff at one point
crafting textures is already a pain bec of the lower drop of hides...
( and for what you wanna replace it then ? with shrap ? or wayy better mu loot ? if so..sure..i am in,,but would doubt that happens)

and i saw your post with the bp110 ...where you also wrote....ye nothin spectacular ..a few esis here and there...with your dpp (which is very good) you get also armor parts and other stuff too

not many players have this dpp (or can afford it) and they would get even more hurt, if the drop rate is reduced to your wanting 10% with shrap only ( bec i wouldnt think mindark changes to a rain of armors and guns)

Eddie

 

[miathan]

Yes to both 1 and 2. Make the shrapnel excavated with a single use (or at least something like 10 PED per use).
For 2 I agree but it should be done gradually in small steps and the effects should be observed by MA.

 

[warmdogg]

not many players have this dpp (or can afford it) and they would get even more hurt, if the drop rate is reduced to your wanting 10% with shrap only ( bec i wouldnt think mindark changes to a rain of armors and guns)

Eddie

Worst part about high DPP is less shrapnel and more pointless oils, making what could be a decent mob into a ‘meh’ mob.

Just increasing the shrap to oil ratio by 25% (more shrap) would yield a net increase in average markup for most hunters.

 

[Sulje]

There is very interesting loots, but you MUST find it yourself. U guarantee you there are superior mobs to loot, but requires one to look at his pc monitor and move his avatar instead of macroing.

 

[Jhereg]

Two crazy ideas that are unpopular...

1) Players should hunt less when MU is bad
2) TT the oils (This means MU from other loot in the mob is good enough to cover oil being tt'ed)

Adding more shrapnel encourages more cycling, which exacerbates the problem and doesn't really help MA with their bottom line as it is a freebie to players.

 

[Jhereg]

Just to add...what actually needs to happen is for players to be more picky about what they hunt. But that will not happen as the decision to hunt isn't solely based on MU of mobs.

Some people hunt for fun, some for codex, etc. There will always be a glut of common materials in loot...

 

[Rocket192]

Two crazy ideas that are unpopular...

1) Players should hunt less when MU is bad
2) TT the oils (This means MU from other loot in the mob is good enough to cover oil being tt'ed)

Adding more shrapnel encourages more cycling, which exacerbates the problem and doesn't really help MA with their bottom line as it is a freebie to players.

hunting less certainly doesn't help MA's bottom line either.

restricting TT output and cycling by players is a net-negative for MA. They would make more money paying the extra 1% for shrap conversion than the 2-5%+ they would lose from players simply not shooting.


The proposed solutions are mechanisms that can solve the "trash loot" problems and tiny margins for said loot while not restricting output. MA could simply increase demand for everything, but even then i think there's too much output from the players to handle that without rolling back EP blueprints which isn't going to happen.


I don't believe there's a better solution that solves the trash loot issue without restricting player cycling/tt output.

 

[Deemer]

I don't believe there's a better solution that solves the trash loot issue without restricting player cycling/tt output.

Suggestion: - Exchange Anything (Except UA) for Shrapnel Option in Trade Terminal

In light of numerous recent conversations regarding avatar bound items, the affect of nanocubes on markup, and the overall problem of loot balancing, I propose a simple solution. Add an additional tab to the Trade Terminal which allows any item, including avatar-bound items (except universal...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

 

[Jhereg]

hunting less certainly doesn't help MA's bottom line either.

restricting TT output and cycling by players is a net-negative for MA. They would make more money paying the extra 1% for shrap conversion than the 2-5%+ they would lose from players simply not shooting.


The proposed solutions are mechanisms that can solve the "trash loot" problems and tiny margins for said loot while not restricting output. MA could simply increase demand for everything, but even then i think there's too much output from the players to handle that without rolling back EP blueprints which isn't going to happen.


I don't believe there's a better solution that solves the trash loot issue without restricting player cycling/tt output.

That's the paradox of the situation.

The more you encourage cycling, the more MU gets reduced for anything except the materials that have non-cycle dependent drop rates.

Exchanging oils for shrapnel is simply asking for a freebie from Mindark/Planet Partners, and doesn't solve the heart of the issue. You are simply shifting the burden for lack of MU onto MA instead, by maybe reducing their intake by about half a percent, depending on what you think is reasonable shrapnel loot rate.

There's a check already in the system for oversupply. It is the tt terminal.

 

[Rocket192]

markup aside none of this makes loot more interesting, meaningful, or exciting. the changes i suggested probably wouldn't increase margins for hunters at all, or maybe slightly for high dpp users. it's about making the loot feel meaningful.

i shouldn't be getting upset when i loot things that aren't shrapnel.

 

[Deemer]

That's the paradox of the situation.

The more you encourage cycling, the more MU gets reduced for anything except the materials that have non-cycle dependent drop rates.

Exchanging oils for shrapnel is simply asking for a freebie from Mindark/Planet Partners, and doesn't solve the heart of the issue. You are simply shifting the burden for lack of MU onto MA instead, by maybe reducing their intake by about half a percent, depending on what you think is reasonable shrapnel loot rate.

There's a check already in the system for oversupply. It is the tt terminal.

The setting of the game depends on the MA, so the responsibility is theirs.
They are the company that offers an exchange of $ for loot... that is, MA are the ones who pour a lot of shits into the loot.

 

[Jhereg]

markup aside none of this makes loot more interesting, meaningful, or exciting. the changes i suggested probably wouldn't increase margins for hunters at all, or maybe slightly for high dpp users. it's about making the loot feel meaningful.

i shouldn't be getting upset when i loot things that aren't shrapnel.

I'd argue getting some crap in loot is par for the course, makes getting the good stuff in loot more exciting.

I'd also say, work within the system. There are plenty of mobs with decent amounts of shrapnel, and there are oils that will be above 101% MU.

Could you support MA replacing oil drops with UA instead? That's one option that's not shrapnel based...or is that conversion really key to what you want? Because the latter is really just about trying to get more MU.

 

[Rocket192]

I'd argue getting some crap in loot is par for the course, makes getting the good stuff in loot more exciting.

I'd also say, work within the system. There are plenty of mobs with decent amounts of shrapnel, and there are oils that will be above 101% MU.

Could you support MA replacing oil drops with UA instead? That's one option that's not shrapnel based...or is that conversion really key to what you want? Because the latter is really just about trying to get more MU.

if you do that you have to give players the option to TT UA, which i don't think MA will ever want to do.

 

[Jhereg]

The setting of the game depends on the MA, so the responsibility is theirs.
They are the company that offers an exchange of $ for loot... that is, MA are the ones who pour a lot of shits into the loot.

It is your responsibility for hunting for shit loot.

MA doesn't care about MU. Only the players buy/sell things at MU. Hunt for stuff with no MU, get no MU.

Think before you shoot.

 

[warmdogg]

i shouldn't be getting upset when i loot things that aren't shrapnel.

hit the nail on the head.

@Jhereg you’re a 100% right, relying on MA for that 1% isn’t a good strategy overall, players should be relying on other players for markup. But I feel like the average player would still tt the excess shrapnel and sell the oils if they were once again 103% muscle eye etc.

The real answer is that MA need to cook up some meaningful mark sinks. The housing worked for a little while but was rapidly abandoned, I feel this could easily be revived.

Craftable consumables would also be fantastic. Making loot pills and certain buffs craftable as a cooking skill is an interesting concept which I hope MA consider. (the example buffs are pulled from the top of my head, but with some thought I’m sure there are some fantastic options)

 

[Jhereg]

if you do that you have to give players the option to TT UA, which i don't think MA will ever want to do.

Perhaps, but you get my point right? You are really just trying to push more MU into mobs by increasing shrapnel.

 

[Rocket192]

Perhaps, but you get my point right? You are really just trying to push more MU into mobs by increasing shrapnel.

yeah that would be another effect. really it's just that i don't want to have to deal with dividing stacks of literal garbage to post on auction to get 101-101.5% after fees.

it's tedious, boring, time consuming, and not fun.

 

[Jhereg]

hit the nail on the head.

@Jhereg you’re a 100% right, relying on MA for that 1% isn’t a good strategy overall, players should be relying on other players for markup. But I feel like the average player would still tt the excess shrapnel and sell the oils if they were once again 103% muscle eye etc.

The real answer is that MA need to cook up some meaningful mark sinks. The housing worked for a little while but was rapidly abandoned, I feel this could easily be revived.

Craftable consumables would also be fantastic. Making loot pills and certain buffs craftable as a cooking skill is an interesting concept which I hope MA consider. (the example buffs are pulled from the top of my head, but with some thought I’m sure there are some
Fantastic options)

Yes, I would agree with crafted consumables. I think that's a decent option for sure. Stuff players want to use up, but doesn't stick around.

That being said, I'm not sure animal pancreas oil MU will ever go above 101% during non-mayhem times still .

 

[Slyk]

Hunt SH-30 and you won't be upset with item loot. Don't be dumb and cry to change the game everytime you play because you hunt thyroid and pancreas mobs.

 

[Deleted member 58836]

@Jhereg mentions it...

The game is not meant to be played as one profession alone. They're all connected.

Too many hunters causing oversupply?
Try mining.
Too many miners causing oversupply?
Craft with the cheap resources.
Too many crafting?
That must mean markup is heading back upwards on hunting/mining loots as demand for resources is increased...
It's kind of like a cycle...

MA tries to balance around something similar.

 

[wizz]

Loot in every profession feels incredibly mundane and uninteresting. Margins are incredibly small for even the best hunters, and output far exceeds demand for just about every material and resource in the game. In my opinion this is not sustainable for both an economic and entertainment aspect.

Strange. I'm picking up mixed signals from this poster.
In one thread he claims that there is so much MU to be had if you just use your superior intelect (to quote his own words). And now he claims there is not.

Anyhow, I absolutely agree that loot is utterly boring and not entertaining.
But the problem is not so much the loot, but the entire economic system that entropia became.

Most loot has no more value since there is very little interesting stuff left to craft.
Most crafters just buy nano cubes from TT for EP crafting.
Most hunters use UL stuff so or not buying any crafting tools anymore.

So, what use is most stackable loot anyways in a system that does no longer require looted materials for crafting?

The longer we wait, the more people will use UL stuff. The less materials will be sold.

Without a total crafting overhaul loot will become even less interesting and less profitable, except maybe for mayhem events.
But even those will rapidly decrease the more people will get their 2.0 weapons and the market will be flooded by boxes that will no longer be sold.


Also OP clearly only thinks about his own returns as he clearly doesn't give a damn about deed holders. He still thinks that this game will run without those people or other small occasional hunters, totally forgetting about the entire entropia eco system.
Destroy one part and risk the entire system to collapse. It's a careful balance.
But be screwing over a large part of the player base, mind there are you, 60.000 CLD's out there, will greatly reduce trust in the game as well.

So, bad idea.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

Well crafters have been quitting left and right or playing less at least.

The problem isn't the loot, it's that there's less demand BECAUSE less crafters are crafting. It's the same reason why some mining materials are worth more now, less miners,

Most people don't want to do the boring parts of the game and crafting and mining suck.

 

[warmdogg]

The issue is that whilst yes there are events with massive markup and specific mobs people with a brain can sniff out and hunt to some success, for the vast majority of mobs and their respective missions the markup is 100.5-101.5% the players hunting these mobs generally fall in the low to mid level and form a large part of the player base.

This issue isn’t about Rocket crying because he can’t find markup outside of mayhem, Im fairly confident he can figure it out. What I believe he sees which many of us do too is the bigger picture.

If mindark want to improve player retention, then they need to work on the way markup is balanced across the board. Welfare isn’t the answer, but they are more than capable of creating engaging and fun markup sinks that elevate the game as a whole and help retain low to mid level players.

I feel like rdi was an interesting attempt at this and if the tezla wave was within the Medusa swamp and the pills lasted 1 hour we may have seen a greater amount of pills being burned and everything good that comes with that.

sorry for the Rick England length post, but the topic is an exciting one to me with lots of potential.

 

[Bulletproof Spider]

2) Reduce the drop frequency of all materials (oils, hides, wools, excl. tier and other components) by a minimum of 90%

Some people hunt for fun, some for codex, etc. There will always be a glut of common materials in loot...

Not sure if you all realize this, but the point of the game that's been created is actually to follow the story line and do all professions. Focusing solely on hunting, and for codex, let alone reducing materials looted by 90%, would cripple the economy. Try targeting creatures and mining in locations where you can find materials for blueprints you can craft. Then craft what has MU. You mix this approach with Daily Missions, and other missions; that's how MindArk intended for the game to be played.

Grinding the same mob for weeks and trying to sell for MU, doing what everyone is doing, it's a race to the bottom. You need a 'balanced diet'. With a more balanced approach, over the years of skilling naturally, you can allocate your ped toward doing what brings in the most MU in all areas of the game.

 

[aVaLON_52]

I don't mind crafting. I usually convert my oils into all simple components and sell the components at a higher mu or make armatrix weapons etc.

 

[Bulletproof Spider]

I don't mind crafting. I usually convert my oils into all simple components and sell the components at a higher mu or make armatrix weapons etc.

Now, just imagine if you hunted mobs and mined in areas where you could acquire the resources that go into crafting mining amps & equipment, as well as Armatrix hunting gear (amps/weapons). /mindblown

 

[Rocket192]

This issue isn’t about Rocket crying because he can’t find markup outside of mayhem, Im fairly confident he can figure it out. What I believe he sees which many of us do too is the bigger picture.

the OP had nothing to do with markup and as i stated myself it would have zero or minimal impact on markup output of players. everything would balance out



the point is about making loot feel interesting/fun rather than like emptying a garbage can into a backpack and calling it a day

 

[wizz]

the point is about making loot feel interesting/fun rather than like emptying a garbage can into a backpack and calling it a day

But how does your proposed solutions fix this?
90% more shrapnel? How is that more interesting or more fun?

As said, the entire crafting system should be overhauled to have any possibility to make loot more interesting again.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

this would cause CLD revenues to plummet, but it's a small price to pay

Hmm I don't think I like that as I recently bought some CLD.

How about we nuke rockets return percentage to 10% ! Rocket would be our sacrificial lamb. The returns of the many outweigh the returns of the few or the one (rocket)! /joking