News: Introducing Entropia Unreal Tokens

Most people owning and using top gear aren't really nervous about loosing value, because they treat the gear like it should be treated - efficient tool to extract further value. What these people are nervous about is not having more DPS for the upcoming grindfests, hence the still high price on buffs (rings) and the demand for new and better combos.

I can understand the other perspective, the one of an investor who didn't quite grasp the game and only sees gear as investment in pure speculation terms, these players rarely own gear but only fear for others that are owning, for the wrong reasons.

With incoming TWEN and Unreal one would be better standing on a top DPS tool to make sure they grind the best events to come to the game.
You keep looking at this game as a being a collection of Fabergé eggs... it's many things but not that... from that perspective yeah, there are infinite better opportunities for you out there in the "real" world. As per the famous cliché: go get them tiger :D
If the goal is to seek value with top equipment (as you say), but the equipment loses value, then the equipment must earn more than the depreciation of the equipment (which is often a considerble spread). Yet you're still viewing it as capital invested, so are an investor yourself.

Potentially it maybe possible to achieve returns greater than equipment depreciation, if events deliver that. It's simply a matter of persinal choice regarding risk and reward.

There're many ways to play the game, to gain the enjoyment each individual is after. The only answer, isn't simply loading your ava with 100k+ usd of equipment.

I can achieve continous profits here with considerably lower capital investment. You view that as a fail. Whatever...I dont feel the need to pay to feed my ego.

Rick.
 
I think a missing piece is that you're failing to valuate the second, third, etc... weapon in to the purchase price of the first.

It's the difference between an active investment (tools of your trade), and a passive one (someone else's business).

If you're going to do the work, reach for the top, whatever, you have to see things in a different way. A carpenter with a hand saw doesn't buy a circular saw so that he can make money selling it later. He buys a better saw so that he can produce a higher quality (or just more) output, and increase his total earnings over time. At some point he'll be able to buy a table saw. Maybe he'll move on to a CNC machine.

He probably threw the hand saw away, or left it hanging in the garage. He might garage sale the circular saw. If he's not sitting on a comfortable bankroll yet, he's definitely selling the table saw when he gets the CNC machine because it takes up a ton of space, and it's going to resell for an appreciable percentage of it's original value.

Now at this point, this is where we find someone like, uh, "Eddie". He's been at this for a while. He seems to love his work, and he's operating at the top of his market. There's a little fudging here with the metaphor because a more obvious real world comparison like an athlete isn't necessarily gear-dependent, and may be working professionally with regulation gear or under other standards. But in EU, it works more like another trade - Skills are required but the quality of your gear is a deciding factor.

If you are capable of playing efficiently (I'm not talking about weapon eff I'm talking about EU, where to some extent you have to do what the game wants you to do) and invest in a high-end toolset - within a couple of gear cycles you should be pulling ahead. I'm going to put my thoughts here, for anyone who cares - even if Rick doesn't. If I'm way off base, perhaps someone who is functioning at that level would like to correct me.

For now we discard armor/FAP costs. These items have relatively stable values and active markets. You grab the one you need, and when you're done you pass it on. If no one's around when you're done maybe you hold it for a minute, or maybe you take a loss to get what you need to keep working. Unless you got something really specialized and suddenly everyone "takes a break" for a few months, this is going to be ok. And definitely we're focusing on the big piece, weapons here.

So you've spent, hmmm, 100k PED to get a top-end weapon. You've cycled 1m PED and you're ready for your vendor pull. You're playing like a pro and returns are at 97ish %. Let's not BS here - at this level your loot composition should be pretty solid. So you're out, effectively, 130k at this point. But also you've got 970k PED worth of loot, and you still have all of your gear. And you're ready for a vendor pull.

Here's a kick in the nuts. Because of your own vendor pull, the weapon you bought is no longer top in class :(

Guess what though? Your new one is :thumbup:

You drop the old weapon like a hot potato. A quick 70k. And a bunch of armchair quarterbacks and would-be passive investors get cramps looking at you losing 30k on your investment in under a year. With cycling losses you're down at least 60K!

Meanwhile Eddie laughs his ass off because he's fully top in class, he's getting ready to do it again, and he still has 970 KiloPED of uber-class loot to sell. Even if it was 90% eye oil - you're getting close to breakeven on MV. And let's be honest, you don't grind a million PED through top-end mobs and loot a mega stack of eye oil 😉

So our observer is looking at 60k in losses, wondering why people do it. At this point I'm sure they realize that Eddie could have sold the pulled weapon and come out way ahead. Depending on his level of confidence in doing it again with the same weapon, maybe he would. But probably not, and certainly not for more than one extra gear cycle.

End of the day, after dropping the loot, Eddie has completed a "gear cycle" and he's probably a little ahead of breakeven. Time for the next round. And this time he's starting the cycle with the top in class weapon, it was essentially free.

Gear cycle 2 then, with the same pretend, round numbers, million PED cycled, etc... At this time whatever the market value of the current weapon is, that's pure profit for Eddie.

Grind hard, stay top in class, and sell people your seconds. Extracting value along the way and as long as you can keep getting that 3 - 5% MU on your loot you're earning at a minimum, the market value of a first or second in class weapon every time you can manage another vendor pull.

At this point some people are watching you, thinking you're "losing the weapon depreciation" on every round. But - that's not what's really happening. As long as you can stay at the top and pull one of the next-gen tools - selling whatever you have left from the previous cycle is pure profit. You're actually depreciating the weapon yourself - as a part of the process of extracting value from it.

So, if Eddie was a carpenter, and he bought that table saw for $25,000 and uses it for 5 years before he sells it at $9,000 - there might be some people saying that he "lost 14k on the saw" but meantime, he's laughing because he earned $50k/year using that saw for 5 years. Remember that uber loot?

He could throw the "saw" in the dumpster, and still be ahead.

This chip is going to net almost two years' gross pay at the US federal minimum wage if it goes for BO....
 
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I think a missing piece is that you're failing to valuate the second, third, etc... weapon in to the purchase price of the first.

It's the difference between an active investment (tools of your trade), and a passive one (someone else's business).

If you're going to do the work, reach for the top, whatever, you have to see things in a different way. A carpenter with a hand saw doesn't buy a circular saw so that he can make money selling it later. He buys a better saw so that he can produce a higher quality (or just more) output, and increase his total earnings over time. At some point he'll be able to buy a table saw. Maybe he'll move on to a CNC machine.

He probably threw the hand saw away, or left it hanging in the garage. He might garage sale the circular saw. If he's not sitting on a comfortable bankroll yet, he's definitely selling the table saw when he gets the CNC machine because it takes up a ton of space, and it's going to resell for an appreciable percentage of it's original value.

Now at this point, this is where we find someone like, uh, "Eddie". He's been at this for a while. He seems to love his work, and he's operating at the top of his market. There's a little fudging here with the metaphor because a more obvious real world comparison like an athlete isn't necessarily gear-dependent, and may be working professionally with regulation gear or under other standards. But in EU, it works more like another trade - Skills are required but the quality of your gear is a deciding factor.

If you are capable of playing efficiently (I'm not talking about weapon eff I'm talking about EU, where to some extent you have to do what the game wants you to do) and invest in a high-end toolset - within a couple of gear cycles you should be pulling ahead. I'm going to put my thoughts here, for anyone who cares - even if Rick doesn't. If I'm way off base, perhaps someone who is functioning at that level would like to correct me.

For now we discard armor/FAP costs. These items have relatively stable values and active markets. You grab the one you need, and when you're done you pass it on. If no one's around when you're done maybe you hold it for a minute, or maybe you take a loss to get what you need to keep working. Unless you got something really specialized and suddenly everyone "takes a break" for a few months, this is going to be ok. And definitely we're focusing on the big piece, weapons here.

So you've spent, hmmm, 100k PED to get a top-end weapon. You've cycled 1m PED and you're ready for your vendor pull. You're playing like a pro and returns are at 97ish %. Let's not BS here - at this level your loot composition should be pretty solid. So you're out, effectively, 130k at this point. But also you've got 970k PED worth of loot, and you still have all of your gear. And you're ready for a vendor pull.

Here's a kick in the nuts. Because of your own vendor pull, the weapon you bought is no longer top in class :(

Guess what though? Your new one is :thumbup:

You drop the old weapon like a hot potato. A quick 70k. And a bunch of armchair quarterbacks and would-be passive investors get cramps looking at you losing 30k on your investment in under a year. With cycling losses you're down at least 60K!

Meanwhile Eddie laughs his ass off because he's fully top in class, he's getting ready to do it again, and he still has 970 KiloPED of uber-class loot to sell. Even if it was 90% eye oil - you're getting close to breakeven on MV. And let's be honest, you don't grind a million PED through top-end mobs and loot a mega stack of eye oil 😉

So our observer is looking at 60k in losses, wondering why people do it. At this point I'm sure they realize that Eddie could have sold the pulled weapon and come out way ahead. Depending on his level of confidence in doing it again with the same weapon, maybe he would. But probably not, and certainly not for more than one extra gear cycle.

End of the day, after dropping the loot, Eddie has completed a "gear cycle" and he's probably a little ahead of breakeven. Time for the next round. And this time he's starting the cycle with the top in class weapon, it was essentially free.

Gear cycle 2 then, with the same pretend, round numbers, million PED cycled, etc... At this time whatever the market value of the current weapon is, that's pure profit for Eddie.

Grind hard, stay top in class, and sell people your seconds. Extracting value along the way and as long as you can keep getting that 3 - 5% MU on your loot you're earning at a minimum, the market value of a first or second in class weapon every time you can manage another vendor pull.

At this point some people are watching you, thinking you're "losing the weapon depreciation" on every round. But - that's not what's really happening. As long as you can stay at the top and pull one of the next-gen tools - selling whatever you have left from the previous cycle is pure profit. You're actually depreciating the weapon yourself - as a part of the process of extracting value from it.

So, if Eddie was a carpenter, and he bought that table saw for $25,000 and uses it for 5 years before he sells it at $9,000 - there might be some people saying that he "lost 14k on the saw" but meantime, he's laughing because he earned $50k/year using that saw for 5 years. Remember that uber loot?

He could throw the "saw" in the dumpster, and still be ahead.

This chip is going to net almost two years' gross pay at the US federal minimum wage if it goes for BO....

I like your optimistic viewpoint, and sure I get it, "if" you can constantly find buyers after you've pulled another weapon from the broker. I'm not convinced players are running million ped bankrolls though... haha.

What did the Terminator sell for, 500k+ was it? What's it worth now? Nearly every weapon for the first 15 years of the game became worthless overnight when FEN came in. That will repeat again at some point.

I simply wont pay 250k ped for a weapon... never, ever, ever not even 50k ped. When MA built a system for players to collect say 60k+ ped of tokens to access a weapon. They moved the loot from the mobs to the broker but for much higher weapon cost price. What are you hunting for in the wild then, just skills and a title? Is that it,....the continously acquisition of ever higher numbers of tokens for higher "cost" priced gear? Come on.. wtf haha. What's the gamble then for shooting for 90% about then? It tickles me actually the management of expectations. Enjoy. Where's the dream loot box?

Rick.
 
I simply wont pay 250k ped for a weapon... never, ever, ever not even 50k ped.
I doubt I would ever do that either to be honest. But not because of what it is. Because of what it takes to use it correctly.

I just honestly don't care to devote the time and energy needed to play the game at that level. The only reason I've ever seen for me to deposit that kind of PED so far was thinking about a mothership.

I'm not convinced players are running million ped bankrolls though... haha.

OFC just some round sample numbers. I don't know what the expected PED cycled actually is to pull something like a mod nano or an L15 chip like that. And I doubt anyone does it in one cycle of the ped card. Who knows though.

As regards future consistency, it's not much worse than real life. I wasn't super happy owning three box trucks when suddenly nobody could afford (or wanted to spend on) my services during the 2008 crap either. But I was all paid off and losing a stream of revenue is not the same as 'losing' hard cash.

For someone who has been through a couple of gear cycles like that - this is still not actually going to put them negative. Just, "less positive" :ROFLMAO:
 
I doubt I would ever do that either to be honest. But not because of what it is. Because of what it takes to use it correctly.

I just honestly don't care to devote the time and energy needed to play the game at that level. The only reason I've ever seen for me to deposit that kind of PED so far was thinking about a mothership.



OFC just some round sample numbers. I don't know what the expected PED cycled actually is to pull something like a mod nano or an L15 chip like that. And I doubt anyone does it in one cycle of the ped card. Who knows though.

As regards future consistency, it's not much worse than real life. I wasn't super happy owning three box trucks when suddenly nobody could afford (or wanted to spend on) my services during the 2008 crap either. But I was all paid off and losing a stream of revenue is not the same as 'losing' hard cash.

For someone who has been through a couple of gear cycles like that - this is still not actually going to put them negative. Just, "less positive" :ROFLMAO:

Some people are happy to pay 3000 - 5000 usd (not ped) a "month" to play this game. It's a playground for those people. Not including equipment. If you are paying say 200 usd, you're not even going to be on the radar.... haha. The whales keep the lights on, and the artists in work, so it's all a plus.

Laters

Rick.
 
No disagreement, 5k and more. When I started I knew someone who was spending that weekly. 🤷‍♂️

Now that so much money goes into bought revenue streams and the like, with returns stabilized, he left long ago, as did many others.

For myself, I've always said that I prefer to "play with EU" rather than trying to really play it. To each their own I guess. But also there's not many "millionaire's playgrounds" where anybody can just go and hobnob 😜
 
I doubt I would ever do that either to be honest. But not because of what it is. Because of what it takes to use it correctly.

I just honestly don't care to devote the time and energy needed to play the game at that level. The only reason I've ever seen for me to deposit that kind of PED so far was thinking about a mothership.
I'm of the same mindset as you. But because I am a relatively switched on player, and I'm fairly well invested people call me out sometimes for a supposedly lack of judgement for not owning high end 2.0 gear when I could afford it, and could make serious profit with it if I wanted to. Some people are narrow minded and think that high level grinding is the only way forward. Making money from video games has always been a goal of any teenager growing up but if you don't find the game enjoyable, then its just soulless drudgery for barely minimum wage.

The reality is, I just do what I need for events, because I like the idea of looting something cool from the vendor, and I'm a sucker for mission stages, I might cycle 500k a year tops, I am at the throughput where I could start to justify a 2.0 weapon of comparative DPS to my current weapon. But I feel that psychologically it would push myself to "work it off" and start playing fulltime at a detriment to my other real life interests and responsibilities.

For this same reason, I don't have a Mod/Imp fap, sure I can afford it and I already proved the model of how much I can make as a healer, but I don't want to force myself into healing full time and stressing about working off my one ticket item. With my Adjusted FEN I just heal occasionally for people I like when I feel like doing it.

Being a sweater with 2 pennies or an uber with a million PED of gear can both be correct gameplay options depending on the person and their goals. Just have good reasons for what you do. (or don't do)
 
big money guns is about more than just the better efficiency, which is probably only getting them 1% better returns TT than normal if that

big money guns is about being able to "play big", when you are shooting 10 ped per shot out of a 30k ped gun, it's not a question of TT return rates, it's a question of just having the bankroll, and honestly, most of us just don't. those people are playing the "$10 slots" as it were, something that many of us could afford to do for a few hours, perhaps once or twice a year, not all night, every night. Those people are in a different league and that's why things cost more. it's just the reality
 
big money guns is about more than just the better efficiency, which is probably only getting them 1% better returns TT than normal if that

big money guns is about being able to "play big", when you are shooting 10 ped per shot out of a 30k ped gun, it's not a question of TT return rates, it's a question of just having the bankroll, and honestly, most of us just don't. those people are playing the "$10 slots" as it were, something that many of us could afford to do for a few hours, perhaps once or twice a year, not all night, every night. Those people are in a different league and that's why things cost more. it's just the reality
Think you're downplaying how much 1% is over a 1 million/month cycle. That's 10k PED in TT value alone.
 
Think you're downplaying how much 1% is over a 1 million/month cycle. That's 10k PED in TT value alone.
And if you're cycling $100k/mo, you probably don't lose sleep over $1k

That's the point I'm making. To people are aren't rolling big that seems like a huge advantage. But that's because the numbers are bigger.

Or to put it another way. Owning a $3k gun isn't going to allow you to cycle $100k/mo if you don't have $100k.
 
And if you're cycling $100k/mo, you probably don't lose sleep over $1k

That's the point I'm making. To people are aren't rolling big that seems like a huge advantage. But that's because the numbers are bigger.
Think you're confusing cycling and spending, because you can cycle $100k/month with a few thousand dollars I'm talking like $5k so yes losing 20% of that amount absolutely does matter.
 
To me it’s all a matter of ROI. If I charge myself an interest rate of 8% (about the rate of my pooled investments), do I make enough on the efficiency gains per year to pay myself back. This calculation is straight forward, you just need the purchase price of the weapon and your intended annual cycle. For example an LR-40 FEN +HC would be an equivalent DPS upgrade, but would be a net trade up of 65k on my current position. Gun saves me only 4200 ped in reduced losses on my annual cycle, interest cost is 5200.

Now IMO the LR-40 is pretty average for it’s price, I can find some weapons that are better value for money in this regard, IMK2 if I could max it, but I will be waiting for the new TWEN gear to drop first to see what we got.
 
*Nods*. However, whilst passive investment through peds can get returns without you playing, your avatar can only do one thing at a time.
But yes, if the investment cost for an activity is going to bring you lower returns than a passive investment, then in ped terms you'd be better off with the CLDs or other choice. I have the occassional item worth a CLD equivalent that does not make me a profit or reduce losses by 3 peds a week, therefore on a purely economic basis I should switch it for deeds/shares.
Unreal tokens in the loot are not going to move me towards Mayhem this year, but they may get me to increase my turnover during TWEN. That may justify certain item choices too, and the price I'm willing to pay, but we shall see...
 
Think you're confusing cycling and spending, because you can cycle $100k/month with a few thousand dollars I'm talking like $5k so yes losing 20% of that amount absolutely does matter.
That's a good point, I misunderstood what you're saying.

Is it possible to cycle a million ped a month with a 30k ped weapon?
 
Is it possible to cycle a million ped a month with a 30k ped weapon?
How much is a swine? To the extreme you can do a bit over 2mil/month with one of those trash guns at t10 with delta. You won't be left with much after that, but, #ForTheScience
 
How much is a swine? To the extreme you can do a bit over 2mil/month with one of those trash guns at t10 with delta. You won't be left with much after that, but, #ForTheScience
that's a good point. loaded up with big amps and lots of enhancers that chances the cycle profile quite a lot.
 
As usual the hunters would seem to be the only ones MA think of as contributing to the economy and therefore worthy of any reward.
Miners and crafters have no equivalent of codex to help their skills, no mention of these tokens for them either
Mining at least has Sotos but for crafting..nope

Why cant these tokens drop as sotos in both those professions ?
It doesn't seem that MA is interested in sepparating these paths as much as players would want to. There's nothing stopping people to hunt if they want tokens, there's nothing stopping people to mine, if they want pyrite. It seems MA is aiming to push players to diversity, instead of choosing only specific paths... which is pretty nice.

I really liked the crossover hunting/mining event they did 2 years ago (?) where you looted some fragments in Easter Mayhem that gave a mining mission from which you got some boxes from which you could find some schematics for UL excavators, refiners and you needed for those stuff from mining, hunting and crafting. That was really interesting type of event and I would love to see it again, maybe even in TWEN.
 
Will Entropia Unreal Shares be sold in game or in the webshop?
 
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Looted and offered as event prizes, that's my guess.
Actually I was thinking about Entropia Unreal Shares not the tokens? If the shares will be sold ingame or on the website?
 
You have to loot token, in early 2023 unreal shares should be added to entropia exchange and you can start trade them.
And one day in distant future when they release unreal version of EU they will maybe start pay your 0,5 PED per year and share, or how much it is.
 
Actually I was thinking about Entropia Unreal Shares not the tokens? If the shares will be sold ingame or on the website?
Shares ARE tokens and are only looted atm, they are one and the same and won’t be sold
 
Shares are not tokens. Tokens are looted, shares are sold.

It does not explain where shares will be sold. My guess is ingame, but there were some deeds sold only on the webshop.
Step 1 > Loot tokens (or win in future events ?)
Step 2 > Wait for token to be come tradable then you can sell p2p (or in auction ?)
Step 3 > If you decide not to sell yet hold till UE5 release then you can convert the tokens to shares
Step 4 > Now you have shares you can sell in entropia exchange
 
Entropia Unreal Tokens can be looted from all creatures in the Merry Mayhem event instances. After the launch of Entropia Universe Unreal, the tokens can be converted to Entropia Unreal Shares on the Entropia Exchange. The Entropia Unreal Tokens will be tradable from early 2023.
Shares are not tokens. Tokens are looted, shares are sold.

It does not explain where shares will be sold. My guess is ingame, but there were some deeds sold only on the webshop.

Clear you dont read
 
Step 1 > Loot tokens (or win in future events ?)
Step 2 > Wait for token to be come tradable then you can sell p2p (or in auction ?)
Step 3 > If you decide not to sell yet hold till UE5 release then you can convert the tokens to shares
Step 4 > Now you have shares you can sell in entropia exchange

May be people don't get my question, because I forget to mention my assumption that not all 1 million tokens will be looted and big portion that is not looted will end up sold by MA to players.
 
They will be all looted, maybe given as price, but still, looted. If you want buy them, you have to wait and buy them via entropia exchange :)
 
May be people don't get my question, because I forget to mention my assumption that not all 1 million tokens will be looted and big portion that is not looted will end up sold by MA to players.
Why assuming so much when pretty much everything is clearly stated by MA, tokens will drop for whole of next year, they will be probably big stacks as event prizes etc.. sheeesh
 
Why assuming so much when pretty much everything is clearly stated by MA, tokens will drop for whole of next year, they will be probably big stacks as event prizes etc.. sheeesh
Why would you read when you can instead bitch and moan about "not being told the answers" When they are right there in front of you? /s
 
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