A new continent for noobs / non depositors?

[dee]

in regards of what you are saying with other mmo games that have perks for paying customers, this game does also. It lets them buy land areas, as well as other uber things out of reach for most players. Maybe you should be less concerned with non depositers and happy that you have the means to actually be profitable in game, which is what most strive for yet few attain.

 

[Midori Fairlona]

Or are you, as as Landowner, just interrested in the profit?

and as landowner yourself you (should at least) offer a way of entertainment, like events and certain mobs that cant be found somewhere else, so ppl come to hunt at your LA

And I can honestly say the if this is how you truely feal Gen, then I am afraid I will never be hunting on your land area again!!

For anyone that missed the earlier announcement, gen has sold his land area.

 

[gen]

in regards of what you are saying with other mmo games that have perks for paying customers, this game does also. It lets them buy land areas, as well as other uber things out of reach for most players. Maybe you should be less concerned with non depositers and happy that you have the means to actually be profitable in game, which is what most strive for yet few attain.

OK, now that's a good point.

And those who are continuing to - rep with comments about concentration camps Etc. You should read the ENTIRE post and try and understand the reasoning, this is not about race. It's about benefits for and against those that deposit and those that don't deposit.

 

[Annica]

It's about benefits for and against those that deposit and those that don't deposit.

The players that can deposit allready have a huge benefit, they dont have to work for the money.
Those that are not able to deposit also have a benefit, they can sweat to get free money.
But they who sweat i admire because they do a very hard job to be able to stay in game with only sweating.
So why make it less fun for they who work hard?

 

[JackFree]

OK, now that's a good point.

And those who are continuing to - rep with comments about concentration camps Etc. You should read the ENTIRE post and try and understand the reasoning, this is not about race. It's about benefits for and against those that deposit and those that don't deposit.

I agree that talk of concetration camps, race or religion are misplaced and a bit of an exaggeration in this thread.

I can understand what you are trying to say Gen, I just don't agree with your solution. Closing off most of the planet to non-depositors goes against the main concept of EU, FREE to play...

At the same time, I can understand that you think paying players should have a benefit. Instead of trying to restrict gameplay for non-depositers, maybe there should be a new planet that depositors can travel to. This would keep Calypso "Free" to play and fulfill the concept of the "game" at the same time it would give depositors a new playing field. A new "high rollers" planet that you need a minimum deposit of $1000 to travel to. The only problem is that it might turn out to be a very lonely place...

Cheers

 

[gen]

I agree that talk of concetration camps, race or religion are misplaced and a bit of an exaggeration in this thread.

I can understand what you are trying to say Gen, I just don't agree with your solution. Closing off most of the planet to non-depositors goes against the main concept of EU, FREE to play...

At the same time, I can understand that you think paying players should have a benefit. Instead of trying to restrict gameplay for non-depositers, maybe there should be a new planet that depositors can travel to. This would keep Calypso "Free" to play and fulfill the concept of the "game" at the same time it would give depositors a new playing field. A new "high rollers" planet that you need a minimum deposit of $1000 to travel to. The only problem is that it might turn out to be a very lonely place...

Cheers

Another good idea! - The incentive on that new planet to join for high rollers I guess could be UBER UBER Loot!

 

[Zhorgul]

There are so many type of players in PE (sorry I still prefer to call it PE). I don't think separating them would improve anything. As for a tutorial / Sandbox thing, well the answer is easy : PE is dynamic and there is a mentor system. PE is how it is today because of its inhabitants.

Now some people needs to drop 1000$ to have fun when others choose non depositing and still have fun. And all together they are part of the economy. So I'd say the current system is working pretty good and I'm sure MA won't say the opposite when they get the money going in.

 

[gen]

There are so many type of players in PE (sorry I still prefer to call it PE). I don't think separating them would improve anything. As for a tutorial / Sandbox thing, well the answer is easy : PE is dynamic and there is a mentor system. PE is how it is today because of its inhabitants.

Now some people needs to drop 1000$ to have fun when others choose non depositing and still have fun. And all together they are part of the economy. So I'd say the current system is working pretty good and I'm sure MA won't say the opposite when they get the money going in.

Well another reason why I suggested a subscription / threshold fee is because this scares of would be scammers - they have to make a deposit and so can be easily tracked as opposed to someone who can create an avatar with information which might not be correct. So effectively scam someone, give items to another avi then start a new one and start scamming again. With a cost involved the chance of this happening is reduced.

I introduced a friend to play (A depositor) and on his third day he had his entire armour set and weapons scammed off him. He stopped playing. He had spend around $500 on his gear that was scammed, sent a support MSG to MA but was told the transactions did not look strange since a trade was initiated and completed. It's difficult for MA to tell whether people are genuinely being scammed or not with these trades. Yes he should have been more careful and read up on scamming but people just want to get on with things and play and have fun without having to read pages and pages of documentation and searching through forums before going off to shoot some mob.

 

[dee]

Instead of trying to restrict gameplay for non-depositers, maybe there should be a new planet that depositors can travel to. This would keep Calypso "Free" to play and fulfill the concept of the "game" at the same time it would give depositors a new playing field. A new "high rollers" planet that you need a minimum deposit of $1000 to travel to.

are u talking about cnd?
Ok, maybe it just seems that way with the airfares of late

 

[Annica]

Well another reason why I suggested a subscription / threshold fee is because this scares of would be scammers - they have to make a deposit and so can be easily tracked as opposed to someone who can create an avatar with information which might not be correct. So effectively scam someone, give items to another avi then start a new one and start scamming again. With a cost involved the chance of this happening is reduced.

I introduced a friend to play (A depositor) and on his third day he had his entire armour set and weapons scammed off him. He stopped playing. He had spend around $500 on his gear that was scammed, sent a support MSG to MA but was told the transactions did not look strange since a trade was initiated and completed. It's difficult for MA to tell whether people are genuinely being scammed or not with these trades. Yes he should have been more careful and read up on scamming but people just want to get on with things and play and have fun without having to read pages and pages of documentation and searching through forums before going off to shoot some mob.

First of all i understand that MA can not make any actions if someone is scammed by doing a bad deal or lending out items that is the owner/sellers responsibility. They even warn about scamming on the official website. And if someone dont read the rules or recomendations before playing then you cant blame MA for that.

Second, a monthly fee to at least get rid of some scammers is not a bad idea really. Many will not pay for a new avatar just to scam and then dont use anymore. And it will of course be easyer to trace a scam with paying accounts. This is the ONLY reason that i could think of that would be good with a monthly fee.

BUT those who wants to scam big money dont care about a fee i think.
A fee of say 50$ is nothing if they can do a scam of 1000$

 

[Alice]

a scammer would go for the biggest prey

and the best prey imo is a person who deposits 100-1000$ right from start, goes and buy say nemesis or jaguar, and then is asked if he want to have it upgraded ^^
in other games such systems exist, and since many played those games before, they might go for it


and, why wouldnt you pay for a second ava?

i mean, say first depo required is 100$, just lets assume this number

now, this guy a scammer, makes a new ava (with name of his wife/son/daughter/cousin/...) deposits 100$ (he planned to deposit some cash anyway, since his main ava is outta cash), gives the 1000 ped to main ava, and some clothes who look quite acceptable for a newbie to the second one

and then tries to upgrade armor

cost for the scammer, kinda none, if he had deposited anyway to get some cash
with the nice little bonus that he has now a better prey
he knows all of the persons there HAVE deposited, and most likely pretty much even

 

[Zhorgul]

First of all, the rule on any mmorpg and especially with real cash involved is : never trust anybody (and even some I saw irl couldn't be trusted).

That being said if you want an anti scam process. No need to make it auto deposit, I'm against it as I don't deposit and still participate in the economy. The easiest solution I see is used by the competitor of PE : At account creation, your account is linked to one credit card and you can't link it to another account. So with this we'll avoid many abuse without forcing people to deposit.

Still don't know why MA is not doing it especially when there man competitor is doing it on there Real cash economy world.

 

[JackFree]

Another good idea! - The incentive on that new planet to join for high rollers I guess could be UBER UBER Loot!

Exactly, as it would not change the core EU as we know it today, just add another dimension for thos ethat like to play big.

Cheers

 

[Falco]

Noobs are to start on this "new" continent and as soon as they make their first substantial deposit (1000 USD) they gain teleports to Eudoria / Amethera where they can then gain access to CP and CND.

This could mean lag created by loads of Noobs and Non depositors are restricted to one Continent (A small farm of servers) and won't affect the rest of community that pay-to-play.

The benefits are also that if the mentors out there can go to a specific continent to find their apprentices in vast numbers.

I voted with no. I dont think, we need Uber- and Beginner-Continents.

Like Ghettos, Concentration Camps, Homelands....

Additionally: Patient sweaters may get 1000 USD after long time of sweating too. Why shall we separate them from those who deposited the 1000 USD? Why shall we make a Berlin Wall between a guy who deposited 500 and another who did deposite 1500?

 

[gen]

First of all, the rule on any mmorpg and especially with real cash involved is : never trust anybody (and even some I saw irl couldn't be trusted).

That being said if you want an anti scam process. No need to make it auto deposit, I'm against it as I don't deposit and still participate in the economy. The easiest solution I see is used by the competitor of PE : At account creation, your account is linked to one credit card and you can't link it to another account. So with this we'll avoid many abuse without forcing people to deposit.

Still don't know why MA is not doing it especially when there man competitor is doing it on there Real cash economy world.

Yes insisting that people enter their credit card details with address where they have to deposit say $1 would work too. At least these $1 build up and can be used to offset those who have been scammed (returning items to those that have been scammed)

500,000 $1 = $500,000 kitty

 

[LarsMac]

Scamming is a whole other story.
I do not think that requiring a deposit will help curb scamming all that much.
first off, scammers can find ways to to get in. Secondly, most, if not all scam victims could have avoided being scammed, had they thought about what they were doing.

If you loan your stuff to others you are giving it away. That is simple enough. If they give it back to you, you are fortunate. this is just like real life.

All of the reported scams I have heard about (and this includes the time I was scammed) the victim should have known better.

The only thing that requiring a deposit will do is to make the class of scammers much higher, and give the "marks" a false sense of security, making them even more angry when they fall for a scam.

 

[Shadowsong]

This is my final post on the matter / idea.

This has absolutely nothing to do with racism or discrimination.

If you want to join a club (golf club) and benefit from the member's lounge and perks you have to pay a fee to reap the benefits of the "members". The same is the idea here.

Are you going to call the owners of the club racist and discrimatory because they won't let you in the lounge and offer the perks to you because you're not paying a fee? (subscription).

Similarly if you were to signup to Amercian Express' Platinum card you have to pay a fee of X hundred dollars per year. Are they racist and discrimate those who can't pay? No, it's a service they are providing and for this service a cost is associated.

It becomes racism and discrimination when you refuse to accept payment based on how the money was earned. You seem to believe that a ped purchased is worth more than a ped earned through effort, time and labour. I see most forumites disagree. Very happy about that.

I have lived under a regime which tried for many decades to build an economy by segregation. There were seperate areas for the "less worthy" who "did not contribute" to the "ideal society". Travel was restricted and the choices of where to live and where to work were strictly controlled to conform to this flawed vision of utopia. Off course, these "less worthy" people were always welcome to perform menial labour in our gardens and mines, and were allowed to spend their meagre earnings in reserved shops owned by the elite. The system was called apartheid, and it died the death it deserved.

Anyone who cannot see the parallels must be blind, or in denial.

 

[Nebu]

:S why does everything come back to my LA, this is a post about a continent for noobs / non depositors not whether you guys should visit or shouldn't visit my LA because of my post!

Your LA is actually very important in this discussion. You say you dont like the lag created by non-depositers. Alright, I wont get near your LA so it stays lagfree

 

[gen]

Your LA is actually very important in this discussion. You say you dont like the lag created by non-depositers. Alright, I wont get near your LA so it stays lagfree

You're not reading the thread are you? I suggest collect facts and figures before you post then you wouldn't like so erm

 

[LarsMac]

I agree that talk of concetration camps, race or religion are misplaced and a bit of an exaggeration in this thread.

I can understand what you are trying to say Gen, I just don't agree with your solution. Closing off most of the planet to non-depositors goes against the main concept of EU, FREE to play...

At the same time, I can understand that you think paying players should have a benefit. Instead of trying to restrict gameplay for non-depositers, maybe there should be a new planet that depositors can travel to. This would keep Calypso "Free" to play and fulfill the concept of the "game" at the same time it would give depositors a new playing field. A new "high rollers" planet that you need a minimum deposit of $1000 to travel to. The only problem is that it might turn out to be a very lonely place...

Cheers

The problem with this idea is that now again you separate the players by the fact that they are depositors, or not. This causes one big problem.

The fact that people can come and play and do all sorts of things without depositing is what, in essence separates the activity at EU from that of your basic casino.

If you have to pay to play, with the hope of winning something in return for your money put into the game, you are now skirting the edges of gambling law. And as a gambling institute, would be officially forbidden for US players under current law.

If you can come into the game with no investment, and through your own cleverness, hard work, and ability, make some money, without breaking any laws, it is now more a hobby or even a job, and does not trip the wire for online gambling.

At some point, I suspect that the taxing authorities in many countries will require documentation of deposits/withdrawals and players will be required to report their monies from EU as income, or face action from their respective authorities.

 

[AL Killmore]

voted NO

I do not see a reason for a whole new continent - for newbies and low level traders. It's pointless.
Why should it be done ?
To learn new players the basics ? No. There are tutorials, there are mentors, there are experienced players in the game that can share with you some tricks and tips (if they want). So from educational point this new big place is totally useless - it'll only create a false impression (by introducing to them some twisted little world with lots of little newbies crying around) about the game to the newcomers - and that's not a good thing IMHO.
To attract new players and "depositors" ? No way. These ideas - pay for the "promised land" is BS. People would like to pay for the real thing, and for that - they want to SEE BY THEMSELVES what is that "real thing" all about. People do not trust promises. They trust their eyes. And if they can see big parts of Entropia Universe without paying (in the way it is now) - well, so be it.

I really don't see how the newcoming non-depositors are hurting someone's feelings or pockets ? By killing atroxes armed with their heavy orange gear and scoring dozens of globals? Or by mining tons of ore with their bare hands instead of with expensive advanced equipment ?

And finally - if someone come to your shop with 1000 PED, how will you know if he's a depositor or not ? You'll ask for his credit card ??? Then why do you use PEDs at all ? Use euro, dollars, etc.
If you deposit 1000$ and have 10k PEDs, and i have played 5 years without depositing and have 50k peds - then who's the newbie ? And who should be left on a distant continent with the other newbies, untill he learns the game ?

Gen's logic is too plain and simple: the one who deposit money - only he can withdraw money. Only one variable - MONEY. Nothing else. The vital, complex economy system of Entropia Universe is far beyond his vision. MONEY is all that he cares about. MONEY IN - MONEY OUT - simple as a brick.
May be Entropia is just not his game and he should play Tetris instead ? Who knows? The one thing that i know for sure is that his idea is totally pointless, senseless and practically useless. Not for this game. Not for this virtual universe !

 

[Toshba]

Nice first post Al Killmore, very insightful for one so new.

I think there is a benefit in separating the first day noob from the others, give them time to learn about the game and experience it before opening it up to them.

Dont care about the money side, ie: whether they deposit or not. I would think very few do that in the first few days anyway, and they might eventually deposit once they understand the game.

One thing that I think is a good thing about a noobi continent is that information can be given to them in a controlled way. The guides and "approved" mentors can roam the place and inform them of scams, auctions and shops etc....

Most online games have some sort of "introduction" level that lets the new player get their feet wet before they are let loose in the full world.

 

[LarsMac]

Nice first post Al Killmore, very insightful for one so new.

I think there is a benefit in separating the first day noob from the others, give them time to learn about the game and experience it before opening it up to them.

Dont care about the money side, ie: whether they deposit or not. I would think very few do that in the first few days anyway, and they might eventually deposit once they understand the game.

One thing that I think is a good thing about a noobi continent is that information can be given to them in a controlled way. The guides and "approved" mentors can roam the place and inform them of scams, auctions and shops etc....

Most online games have some sort of "introduction" level that lets the new player get their feet wet before they are let loose in the full world.

Well said, but in a sense, we already have this with PA. There are ad terminals and there are MA reps acting as guides. The only way to get anywhere from PA as a n00B is to wander off on your own, or to go with guide or experienced players.

The only glitch here is that n00B's can choose to start at New Oxford, where there are no guides or clues to what the game is about.

A small change to the entry set up, making PA THE entry point, and perhaps to get to Amethera, you must make it to another TP, such as Zychion, before you can TP to Amethera. Now you have made it at least more likely that for n00B's to get far from PA, they must learn the basics.

 

[dee]

the whole scamming subject is a totally separate issue in itself, and definitely worthy of its own thread. I personally think its the company's responsibility to track down and eliminate threats to its customers. Granted, most scams can be avoided with a bit of common sense, but it doesn't mean that these people committing the offenses shouldn't be thoroughly investigated and quickly cut off from any future service. It can't be that hard for them to trace what an avatar has done through chat and transaction logs, and if it IS hard for them, then they should either upgrade their system or put more manpower into it.

I'm sure that a very small fraction of a percentage of non-depositing noobs are scammers, and approaching it in this fashion is not going to solve anything.

 

[Annica]

I do not see a reason for a whole new continent - for newbies and low level traders. It's pointless.
Why should it be done ?
To learn new players the basics ? No. There are tutorials, there are mentors, there are experienced players in the game that can share with you some tricks and tips (if they want). So from educational point this new big place is totally useless - it'll only create a false impression (by introducing to them some twisted little world with lots of little newbies crying around) about the game to the newcomers - and that's not a good thing IMHO.
To attract new players and "depositors" ? No way. These ideas - pay for the "promised land" is BS. People would like to pay for the real thing, and for that - they want to SEE BY THEMSELVES what is that "real thing" all about. People do not trust promises. They trust their eyes. And if they can see big parts of Entropia Universe without paying (in the way it is now) - well, so be it.

I really don't see how the newcoming non-depositors are hurting someone's feelings or pockets ? By killing atroxes armed with their heavy orange gear and scoring dozens of globals? Or by mining tons of ore with their bare hands instead of with expensive advanced equipment ?

And finally - if someone come to your shop with 1000 PED, how will you know if he's a depositor or not ? You'll ask for his credit card ??? Then why do you use PEDs at all ? Use euro, dollars, etc.
If you deposit 1000$ and have 10k PEDs, and i have played 5 years without depositing and have 50k peds - then who's the newbie ? And who should be left on a distant continent with the other newbies, untill he learns the game ?

Gen's logic is too plain and simple: the one who deposit money - only he can withdraw money. Only one variable - MONEY. Nothing else. The vital, complex economy system of Entropia Universe is far beyond his vision. MONEY is all that he cares about. MONEY IN - MONEY OUT - simple as a brick.
May be Entropia is just not his game and he should play Tetris instead ? Who knows? The one thing that i know for sure is that his idea is totally pointless, senseless and practically useless. Not for this game. Not for this virtual universe !

Ajust want to say wow, very well written theres really nothing more to ad.

 

[Nebu]

You're not reading the thread are you? I suggest collect facts and figures before you post then you wouldn't like so erm

I read the whole thread, it was very entertaining to say the least
I just need one fact:

This could mean lag created by loads of Noobs and Non depositors are restricted to one Continent (A small farm of servers) and won't affect the rest of community that pay-to-play.

I guess there wont be a "non-depositer only continent", so I'll restrict myself the access to your LA. At least one place stays free of non-depositers that way, so you dont have to worry about me causing lag there.

 

[gen]

I read the whole thread, it was very entertaining to say the least
I just need one fact:



I guess there wont be a "non-depositer only continent", so I'll restrict myself the access to your LA. At least one place stays free of non-depositers that way, so you dont have to worry about me causing lag there.

You obviously didn't read the whole post... If you had you'd realise I don't have an LA!

 

[Nebu]

You obviously didn't read the whole post... If you had you'd realise I don't have an LA!

No, I'm just waiting for another one.

 

[AkiranBlade]

I voted NO. I do like that everyone is in the same melting pot.

However, I do feel that there is use for an area in which only those who meet a certain skill requirement can enter. I have mentioned this on the forum elsewhere before.

It could possibly be a different continent, although I think maybe a section of Amethera would suffice otherwise the rest of Calypso would end up getting quieter on the whole.

In a way, you already have that to a certain extent in PvP 4 (and PvP 3) but, the problem with them is, they are PvP Lootable areas. PvP isn't everyone's cup of tea, although people would like a more 'exclusive' place to hang out. A place which didn't have trader spam, noob insults etc. Those who have been around a bit would probably avoid that kind of EU activity.

It is for me, an interesting concept.

• Higher level Avatars get an exclusive place to hang out/hunt/mine/craft
• Those who've been around a while can avoid total spam while trying to achieve their goals among like experienced avatars
• Lower experienced avatars have a non-loot non-mob related goal to aim for, perhaps lengthening an avatar's participation.

 

[JohnCapital]

However, I do feel that there is use for an area in which only those who meet a certain skill requirement can enter.

*cough* Crystal Palace (domes 3 & 4 especially)
*cough* Club NeverDie (Certain domes, like Dasps)
*cough* Certain LAs
*cough* Rig

Seems to be lots of places where n00bs won't go, and if they do, they don't last long and soon leave.

Maybe it's not quite what you mean though. However, there are lots of places where relative n00bies simply do not exist in any decent number.

'Course, once someone proves, by virtue of their staying alive and/or holding their own, then they are more able to spend more time there.

Seems the best way to see who does and does not belong in those places. If you can survive, welcome. Otherwise, go skill up more and maybe we'll see you there in the future.