a diferent way to make a auction

[akruz]

Ok! i will start sugesting doing here, and if works i will sugest to put in EU...

My sugestion its to do a more classical auction... In other words, you open a auction, but you will mark a date before, then, everyone interessed will have to appear in the thread...

And so, you say the starting price... you CANNOT start this kind of auction with just one member in the thread(have to be at least 2)

You can wait a certain numbers of member to start...

So, when you have that number, you post: start!(or something like that)

you will wait the first offer...

when this comes... you will start to count the "time ticks"

works that way:

you start a auctuon with the start value of 50 PED

someone cover this price

if nobody gives a new price after the first time tick, you will post:time tick 1

you will wiat another time, and post time tick 2

will repeat again(time tick 3)

after that, if no one post nothing, you will sell to the winner

here, my suggestion of time tickets

second auction(not aplicable in fact, not here in the forums, but well... its really fast)
1 second
5 seconds
10 seconds
15 seconds
30 seconds

minute auction
1 minute
5 minutes
10 minutes
15 minutes
30 minutes

hour auction
1 hour
2 hours
6 hours
12 hours

day auction
1 day
3 days
5 days

week auction
1 week

just remember, the gap betewen a offer and the winner its 3 times the tick
(so a 1 day tick will end after 3 days of silence)

any doubt pm me or post here, any sugestion or other stuff to... and if anyone have the right name for the time ticks, i will gladly edit it

 

[akruz]

Antoher sugestion... exist a modality of auction that is reversed...
is like this...
you say the starting price, bit this price is the higer value that you think that the item will get (like a buyout)
so you wait, and if noone buy, you lower, and continues lowering until reach the limit price or someone buy... this one have an advantage... sometimes you dont know what is a good starting price, but also, dont want risk winning nothing, cause you started to lower... good for commom things

 

[akruz]

^^^^bump^^^^

 

[davidgr1200]

I think you have to make your explanation a lot clearer, I'm afraid I don't really understand what you mean.

 

[akruz]

Ok...
Its kind of hard, but i will try...
In the EU we put a item in auction, we put a starting price a buyout and a time, right?
So if i put 1 week, its possibly that no one giva a offer until the last hours...
IN EF, we anounce an item, put a starting price and a ending date, then the people post their offers until that date, in the date, the auction finish...
So, that is what i think:
First, you don't announce a finishing date, you announce a starting date... You have in that announcing post say what is the item, the starting offer and the "time tick"(again, lack of a better name)
Ok, in the date, you, the auctioner HAVE TO BE ONLINE, (note:its a full date, time included)
So you enter in the post and says that the auction is opened
Then, you wait until someone cover the starting offer, o put a higer one
In that momment, we have the true auction starting...
After the start, you have to wait the anounced time tick, if nobody post a new offer, after the time tick, you post "time tick 1" and wait again, after a second "time tick" period, you post "time tick 2" and wait again, so after the time tick oeriod you post "final time tick" wait a last time the period and if nobody posts, you close the auction.
You can but a roof(a buyout) so, if someone post that offer he or she will take the item and the auction will be closed...
I will give some examples...

 

[AJack10600]

you mean just like a real auction ?

 

[akruz]

EX1: a very quickly auction, without a buyout

Let's say that someone(that we will call The Auctioneer, here and in the other ex's) want sell lyst, 1k of lyst, but The auctioneer need that money very quicly, in fact, needs the money NOW!(don't matter why)
So, here is the options:
Go in a auction(here on in EU) and wait a time
Sell in the streets and maybe wait a time, maybe not, but he can win less
//Here enter my idea
The Auctioneer open a Thread, puts the word urgent or something else, the title becomes
Urgent! Quick auction tick style> item:1k lyst tick:1 min
Then he posts:
"The auction will start in half hour!(so if its 3pm, will start 3:30pm)
the item is 1k of lyst
the time tick is 1 min
the starting price is 30 PED"
Ok, so 3:30pm he post
"The auction is opened"
He waits until someone post the first offer
Then someone post it(i will call him buyer1)
"30 PED!"
The Auctioneer then post
"30 PED! The auction its started!"(and with this, he will wait the time tick, let's say that this happens at 3:32)
The Auctioneer waits 1 min(3:33) and post
"time tick 1"
Wait more 1 min(3:34) and post
"time tick 2"
But, at 3:34:30 someone posts(i will call she, buyer2)
"30 PED and 45 pecs"
The Auctioneer post
"30 PED and 45! Who gives more?"
Then, he restart to count, he wait 1 min, post "time tick 1", wait more 1 min and post "time tick 2", wait more 1 min, and finally post "time tick 3"
At this pints, The Auctioneer wait the last time tick(1 min) and then post
Selled to Buyer2 for 30 PED and 45! The auction is closed!
And its this, now, another ex...

 

[akruz]

you mean just like a real auction ?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well, the second ex is the same at the first, but...

It have a buyout, so its need to be in the first post
The time tick is 1 week so is a very, very long auction
The auction don't need check every min, but need t check near a time tick
So, he will check after 1 week, lets say that he start today, now
So he have to check just next week, at 11:00
and if have a offer, he put the higer offer, and wait more 1 week
If someone put the buyout, the auction end

Well, someone have any doubt?
ANd more, you think that it can be used i EU?

 

[AJack10600]

Not sure how you want to apply that to EU... maybe in EF... not sure... don't see the benefit to be honnest...

 

[Jimmy B]

Well, I think the whole 'going, going, gone thing' is more for adding a bit of drama than anything else.

Think its best to keep things simple online, especially as many people are reading/speaking in their second language.

I kinda think the way EU auction works is OK. Some length of time up to a week where people who can't make the 'real auction' can bid what they're willing to pay (which can happen in real auctions too no?), and then a 'real auction' with one 5 minute 'tick' every time someone makes a bid.

On forum obviously people can choose to increase the 5 min tick. Often people don't use a tick at all though, that can cause problems.

 

[aia]

An IRL auction house I once visited, worked this way:

There is a building with all items, everyone marked with a number.
To bid, you filled in a form with the item number and max bid.

At the end of the week, the auction owner would go through all forms, and the winner (he who bid most) got the item - for the second highest bid plus some percentage.

Let's say you wanted something. You offered to pay 200 "ped" (to make it easy). There was three other people also bidding on same item, bidding 50 ped, 150 ped and 175 ped. Now, you have the highest bid, but you don't have to pay it, instead you pay like 176 ped.

Basically, it worked the way as if everyone has used "auto bid" feature - if your rival had set his autobid to 175 he would stop there, since but your autobid has a higher limit you would do a virtual bid of 176 ped and winning at 176.

(Of course you have to be ready to pay your bid if you win - if you offered 200, then you have to pay 200 if the second highest bid happened to be 199.)

I kinda think the way EU auction works is OK. Some length of time up to a week where people who can't make the 'real auction' can bid what they're willing to pay (which can happen in real auctions too no?), and then a 'real auction' with one 5 minute 'tick' every time someone makes a bid.

The ingame auction has two problems:
First, there is no minimal bid increase. So, people can fight with +1 ped increases on items costing >1000 ped. And waiting out 5 minutes. Because of stability of the client, someone might lose an auction this way. If there was a minimum bid increase of say 2% it wouln't prevent normal bidding (+1 ped ok for items up to 50-75 ped) but it would stop the worst stupidities.

Secondly, if you offering say 100 ped for an item, you probably actually have some buffers. Though, if you offer 100 ped for some item that expires in the middle of the night there is always the risk someone will offer 101 ped for it (knowing, there is at least one person that would pay 100 ped for it).

As for the 5 minute rule, it could be more intelligent. Let's say the time was 1 minute between bids, unless a previous bidder (can be limited to for instance the 5 latest bidders and bidders with a bid "younger" than an hour) experence a disconnect, or demand a "timeout" to, for instance, do a deposit or go to a bank. And that a bidder can get maximum two timeouts during the final phase.

The builtin system also has this problem: You can't "bundle" items. For instance, right now there is 7 parts of "Xfire Survival armor (F)" on auction. It's an unique armor in the sense there are (as far as I know) only two sets ingame, and there is unlikely there will be replacements parts for it. The problem is that you have to fight for each part. It's very likely that this armor is split up forever, especially if someone for just the sake of it bids some outrageous sum on one of the parts in it. Another example is, let's say someone crafts a complete Lich(L) armor. Now, someone wants a footguard for his, uh, Ghoul. He goes to the shop, buys the Lich footguards, and leaves the rest of the Lich without footguards.

 

[Jimmy B]

The ingame auction has two problems:
First, there is no minimal bid increase. So, people can fight with +1 ped increases on items costing >1000 ped. And waiting out 5 minutes. Because of stability of the client, someone might lose an auction this way. If there was a minimum bid increase of say 2% it wouln't prevent normal bidding (+1 ped ok for items up to 50-75 ped) but it would stop the worst stupidities.

Yeah, agreed, a 2% rule (or similar) would be good.

I actually lost an auction from a disconnect in this very way. Happily, in retrospect it would have been a rather frivolous purchase

Secondly, if you offering say 100 ped for an item, you probably actually have some buffers. Though, if you offer 100 ped for some item that expires in the middle of the night there is always the risk someone will offer 101 ped for it (knowing, there is at least one person that would pay 100 ped for it).

Yeah, its annoying when it happens but not sure there's a simple way to avoid it. Some sort of sealed bid system as you mention in the first half of the post would be interesting, I'd have to think about the implications of that, the lack of transparency may cause issues? But in any case it'd be a pretty big rehaul, not sure there's much chance of it happening.

As for the 5 minute rule, it could be more intelligent. Let's say the time was 1 minute between bids, unless a previous bidder (can be limited to for instance the 5 latest bidders and bidders with a bid "younger" than an hour) experence a disconnect, or demand a "timeout" to, for instance, do a deposit or go to a bank. And that a bidder can get maximum two timeouts during the final phase.

I don't think the 5 minute rule is that bad, but it can be a bit of a race to relog after a disconnect. Both disconnect extensions and timeouts could easily be abused I think though.

The builtin system also has this problem: You can't "bundle" items. For instance, right now there is 7 parts of "Xfire Survival armor (F)" on auction. It's an unique armor in the sense there are (as far as I know) only two sets ingame, and there is unlikely there will be replacements parts for it. The problem is that you have to fight for each part. It's very likely that this armor is split up forever, especially if someone for just the sake of it bids some outrageous sum on one of the parts in it. Another example is, let's say someone crafts a complete Lich(L) armor. Now, someone wants a footguard for his, uh, Ghoul. He goes to the shop, buys the Lich footguards, and leaves the rest of the Lich without footguards.

Yeah very true, I can understand MA not wanting to implement bundling for any old combination of items, but it'd be great if full armor sets could be bundled.

 

[akruz]

well, i am saying this like a alternative option, we have to many restriction in the auction system...
But well, i am first suggesting to implement here, and if the time tick is 5 min, you have 5 min to bid
Another thing is the fixed 1 PED bid increase, i dont know, why the auctioneer cannot choose what is the increase? he can put 10 pec or 2 ped, its with him...
if he put a high increase, its bad to him, and just to him, if he puts a low increase, what is the problem? the worst that can happen is a lower final bid...


We can have various types of auction, once implemented, MA don't will have a lot of problems...

An IRL auction house I once visited, worked this way:

There is a building with all items, everyone marked with a number.
To bid, you filled in a form with the item number and max bid.

At the end of the week, the auction owner would go through all forms, and the winner (he who bid most) got the item - for the second highest bid plus some percentage.

Let's say you wanted something. You offered to pay 200 "ped" (to make it easy). There was three other people also bidding on same item, bidding 50 ped, 150 ped and 175 ped. Now, you have the highest bid, but you don't have to pay it, instead you pay like 176 ped.

Basically, it worked the way as if everyone has used "auto bid" feature - if your rival had set his autobid to 175 he would stop there, since but your autobid has a higher limit you would do a virtual bid of 176 ped and winning at 176.

(Of course you have to be ready to pay your bid if you win - if you offered 200, then you have to pay 200 if the second highest bid happened to be 199.)

And sure, we can have other options like this:
Traditional Auction(the in game)
Time Tick Auction(my sugestion)
(i don't know, max bid auction?)Aia sugestion

So first you choose the auction style, them you choose the items and the rules, will not scruple the normal auction, will just add new options

Ah! Here in Brasil(don't know about the auction in other places) we have "licitação"(don't know the english name) is similiar what aia have said, but is the buyer who start it, so, the lower price wins... But well, i think is not a good idea here lol(maybe if we have more on crafting, who knows, we can put some reversed auctions)

 

[Redfrog]

Sorry but I'm going to vote 'no' to this. I don't see that it adds anything to the existing auctions without meaning that people in different time zones need to be on EF at a possibly inconvenient time for them.

 

[akruz]

In my next auction here i can use this... But for now, i don't have to much things to put here... Just 371 EFD...maybe when i have 1k of it... or maybe sweat... when i have more, who knows... (but i think is better make a insane stock of it)
note: i sweat wen i can't craft, sometimes is fun

 

[akruz]

Sorry but I'm going to vote 'no' to this. I don't see that it adds anything to the existing auctions without meaning that people in different time zones need to be on EF at a possibly inconvenient time for them.

Well, we have internet global auction, people from different timezone have to be loged, and even in the normal way, this is true...
Cause if you put a bid resting 1 hour to the end of an auction, and then someone else put another bid, resting 15 min, and you have put the bid and then leave EU, well... You lost that item... So, if you really want win a auction you must have to be logged in the auction end...

 

[aia]

Yeah, its annoying when it happens but not sure there's a simple way to avoid it. Some sort of sealed bid system as you mention in the first half of the post would be interesting, I'd have to think about the implications of that, the lack of transparency may cause issues? But in any case it'd be a pretty big rehaul, not sure there's much chance of it happening.

Yeah, I'd say "sealed bid" auctions naturally would be separate from ordinary live auctions.

As for lack of transparency, we have a bigger culprit (as I see it): the orders. In cases someone order X blueprints for maddox iv, X "jaguar helmets" (both where X>1) it would be interesting to see if it's someone who sells exactly those items on auction. Same thing goes for orders where there are three orders posted within an hour, one at 110%, one at 110.01% and one at 110.02%. The orders should be visible, just to pull people that does that kind of things into the light. If this is done, it would also be possible (with the transparency of seing buyers, same way as if there is an ordinary bid) to let orders get trigged by items without buyouts but where highest bid is lower than the order bid.

Yeah very true, I can understand MA not wanting to implement bundling for any old combination of items, but it'd be great if full armor sets could be bundled.

I just had to get it out of my head, I found out another situation about 6 months ago: Someone placed a land area and the shed upon it on auction. The shed got sold (to a reseller), but the land area was unsold. (As the buyer of the shed immediately relisted the shed he obviously wasn't interested in the shed as such.) In a case like this, I suspect a buyer of a land area would prefer to get a complete land area, with shed, to be able to provide shopkeeper service to visitors.

 

[711]

The trading section of EntropiaForum is intended mainly to allow members to advertise items that are difficult to sell in the Entropia Universe in-game auction system, such as complete armor sets, batches of similar items (e.g. blueprints), etc.

The trading section of EF is not designed as a replacement or alternative to the in-game solutions, such as the auction or shops. Thus, the enhancments and improvements you are suggesting in this thread are very unlikely to be implemented here on EF.

 

[akruz]

Well, is there auctions don't? So we can use this i see people selling sweat and EFD's... we can use this on anything, i am saying that if you will do an auction, you can do that way to, it's not worse or better, just diferent... And i am sugesting it to EU to... But i can't but here and in the wishlist, so i choose put here

 

[711]

Well, is there auctions don't? So we can use this i see people selling sweat and EFD's... we can use this on anything, i am saying that if you will do an auction, you can do that way to, it's not worse or better, just diferent... And i am sugesting it to EU to... But i can't but here and in the wishlist, so i choose put here

Are your suggestions for Entropia Forum, or for Entropia Universe?

If for EU, then this thread belongs in the Wishlist forum (where many, if not most of your ideas have been suggested many times before).

If for EF, then please refer to my post above to see why such features will not be added to EF.

 

[akruz]

Both, it's not that have to be added, i can't post a auction in that style, let's say that i sell a full set, i can't use a time tick auction? it's just a option and no one need to add anything

 

[Nadie]

I'd rather have a system like Ebay for example. I pay in the max I'm prepared to go and if someone outbids me my bid is automatically updated and keeps going up to my max bid. We should also be able to set the increments as we want them say 1 ped, 5 ped, 10 ped, 50 ped, 100 ped etc. or even in %. We'd only need to type in the amount exactly like we do when placing an order. At least then I wouldn't have to get up at 4am as I have done in the past for some auctions only to not get what I was bidding on

 

[-Cash-]

I'd rather have a system like Ebay for example. I pay in the max I'm prepared to go and if someone outbids me my bid is automatically updated and keeps going up to my max bid. We should also be able to set the increments as we want them say 1 ped, 5 ped, 10 ped, 50 ped, 100 ped etc. or even in %. We'd only need to type in the amount exactly like we do when placing an order. At least then I wouldn't have to get up at 4am as I have done in the past for some auctions only to not get what I was bidding on

I like that idea, eBay like auction system would be a nice addition to market. But I am afraid it would be very demanding on servers system resources. I am satisfied with the current auction system. Just my

 

[akruz]

^^^^up^^^^

 

[Nicholas Ash]

I'd rather have a system like Ebay for example. I pay in the max I'm prepared to go and if someone outbids me my bid is automatically updated and keeps going up to my max bid. We should also be able to set the increments as we want them say 1 ped, 5 ped, 10 ped, 50 ped, 100 ped etc. or even in %. We'd only need to type in the amount exactly like we do when placing an order. At least then I wouldn't have to get up at 4am as I have done in the past for some auctions only to not get what I was bidding on

This is an excellent idea, one that I had today as well. I placed a bid for some jeans last night (only bidder @ 495 PED), but was not able to see the end of the auction as it ended today while I was at work. Hopefully I won the auction, just don't know though.