Help: An Attempt to put Hunting TT Returns in perspective...

[sawachika]

Just as a disclaimer (in case someone decides to burn me with a flamethrower):

Seeing all the threads and posts about the adjustment in loots, it has in my opinion become worrying...but nonetheless, there is still as usual, "two sides" - pro loot change faction vs against loot change faction.

But apart from the claims (gut feelings) and no data to support either side, it does become difficult to tell what is what.....so we need some facts (data).

Since, I'm just sitting on the fence in this case, could it be possible for you guys who are pro and against, to just humor me for once? Just this once...

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The actual spreadsheet i used for hunting is unsuitable for any experiment data collection of your scale since I'm a low level hunter.....(carabok chaser)....I don't use armors, faps and let alone enhancers and whatnots. Thus I spent an hour or two to modify it into something "reasonable" for mid to higher level hunters. If there's anything wrong with it....please tell me.

But here's the link to the spreadsheet anyway:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AniSse5timmidE5BOTRXblRwaW9YWVY5SHZYdHRWTHc

So now down to what I'm trying to do...

Would you guys be nice enough, both "factions", to just hunt 100 of your usual mob....with your "usual" setup. But with the loot and expenses "tracked" according to the spreadsheet?

If that is done, maybe....just maybe....we will have some data to "argue" whether loot is bad....or loot is good?

If there is anything unclear with the spreadsheet or anything wrong with it....please tell me.

Thank you very much.

*** Be prepared to post up the spreadsheet as proof if challenged by the other "faction". ***

 

[FallenAngel]

The actual spreadsheet i used for hunting is unsuitable for any experiment data collection of your scale since I'm a low level hunter.....(carabok chaser)....I don't use armors, faps and let alone enhancers and whatnots. Thus I spent an hour or two to modify it into something "reasonable" for mid to higher level hunters. If there's anything wrong with it....please tell me.

its a nice spreadsheet but some of us will use anywhere between 2-4 weapons on a hunt (tagger, rifle/carbine, pistol, finisher), 2 faps, and depending on where you hunt, the spawn can be a mixture of different creatures.

 

[girtsn]

Very easy, here is my perspective.
Run size, tt result
800, -442
1600, -861
1600, -782
1600, -822
2500, -1290
60% return over a period of 2 days. Never had a period like this. Period.

 

[sawachika]

its a nice spreadsheet but some of us will use anywhere between 2-4 weapons on a hunt (tagger, rifle/carbine, pistol, finisher), 2 faps, and depending on where you hunt, the spawn can be a mixture of different creatures.

I see....so many variables huh? Makes it very hard to track anything then. I usually would try to limit as many variables as possible to "try and see" something.

Mentality wise, I seem to think that there should be a proper set of equipment or sets of equipments for different creatures. Since each kind of creature has its own unique damage range, HP, attack speed, etc...therefore if you use an inappropriate selection of equipments, your end result might be that your cost per kill would largely increase beyond the "mob's" average loot range, thereby incurring heavy losses....(very low TT returns).

But that's just my opinion of course. Pre VU, punies with 10 HP seemed to loot around 3 to 4 pecs on average....not sure about post vu though....haven't collected enough data. But ideally, if it loots on average 3 to 4 pecs and you push your cost per kill beyond that range, your likely to perform far worse...

So i guess this spreadsheet is useless? Or would any one be willing to participate in this tiny experiment of mine?

 

[FallenAngel]

I see....so many variables huh? Makes it very hard to track anything then. I usually would try to limit as many variables as possible to "try and see" something.

im not sure if we are going to far off topic here but it is harder to track hunting than mining for example, i use www.entropiabay.com/invcalc.asp to compare my inventory before and after a run, this shows all my decay/costs and ammo used and the loot i received, its not perfect due to not having access to buyout prices for calculating markup but it gives you a good idea of whats going on.

 

[sawachika]

Oh no worries, FallenAngel....I know your trying to help....so its not going off topic or anything.

But if only counting inventory before and after hunt.....alot of stuff goes missing imo......since you don't know how many you've killed.....cost per kill and average loot per kill etc.

Basically....I seem to have an understanding that the HP of the mob, and perhaps even regen and damage might have a factor in the "amount of loot" (in PEDs, TT value) on average that a mob will "surrender". So far....I've only got a few low level mobs....like I have posted in the other thread....somewhere in the forum.

Shinkiba (30 HP) vs Punies (10 HP)
​

Their observed average payout seems to be around 9 to 10 pecs vs 3 to 4 pecs. And I'm assuming it might be 9 : 3. Which appears to be the ratio of their HP if you get what I mean......but I'm too low levelled to hunt higher mobs to track their returns....to see if there's a linear or exponential curve...

But ultimately.....if you keep some variables constant and only "alter" 1 variable....you can somehow do a small data test to see a pattern.....and how to adapt to it.....you know....the basis behind hypothesis, experiment, data collection and analysis.

And if you introduce too many variables....you just cloud your vision and see nothing...

 

[Mordrell]

http://arkadiaforum.com/showthread.php?4642-Mordrell-s-Hunting&p=50006#post50006

Here is the link to my log since I started hunting more full time again.

TT spent = 23309.47 ped (acounts for armor/weapon/fap decay as well as ammo)
TT out = 23294.69 ped (just tt value of loot)
Returns = -14.78 ped (this amount varies greatly sometimes +1k, sometimes -1k)

I have bad periods where overall result will go into negative and then good periods where it goes into positive. Since I hit the 10k mark the return rate has stabilized alot and lies anywhere between 95%-110%... I'm never in positive or negative very long. My mu sold is growing alot faster then the mu I spend and so my profits grow.

 

[Egrim]

bleh hunting all the work for nothing then ^^

 

[Cail]

ill share RT mining


run TTbombs TTamps Total cost Loot TT %backTTwise

1 468 1200 -1668 570,5 34,20%
2 1138,5 3444 -4582,5 2438,24 53,20%
3 1904,5 6317 -8221,5 4600,21 55,95%
4 1190 3600 -4790 2585,82 53,98%
5 555,5 2240 -2795,5 1345,48 48,13%
6 974,5 1960 -2934,5 1428,48 48,67%
7 3580,5 7838 -11418,5 6710,42 58,76%
8 1073,5 1756 -2829,5 1897,5 67,06%
9 1863,2 3920 -5783,2 3061,39 52,93%

Total: 12748,2 32275 45023,2 24638,04 = = == 54,72% TT RETURN! WTF ?

welcome to EU! or RT what ever...after those run´s i decided to sell My impfap and my UL cb26 and withdraw..

The topic is about Hunting loots, and you are sharing mining returns.
<removed>

 

[Actarus]

There's something wrong with the new loot distribution system. I'm having the worst period ever with losses not beeing returned by the system as it used to be. It is a bug? I'm no longer cycling peds but loosing again and again with no ending. WTH is happening?

 

[sawachika]

Thank you Mordrell, but I'm afraid its pretty hard to see much from the data in your hunting log apart from TT in, TT out, result and MU sold.

As for Actarus, that was exactly my purpose of this post. To try to figure out whether hunting loot has really turned bad after vu loot changes.

But to do that, we need data....a set of common data which we can compare and then analyze to see if there really is a difference...

If you refer to the spreadsheet, what I've attempted to do was to "fix" some variables which we can control, like weapon used, cost per shot, target mob/maturity...etc.

If lets say two person, pro loot change vs against loot change, both killed a mob of the same maturity, say Atrox Young.....for a total of 100 kills using different equipment setup, we could from the spreadsheet, compare their "average" loot per mob and "average" cost per mob....to see something.

For example, one might have TT returns of about 80% while the other may have only 50%....but upon looking at their "average" loot per mob, we could realise that the payout was roughly the same but only due to equipment choices, the cost per kill of one was vastly more than the other......or something like that.

Because ultimately, we need to realize that being eco as a hunter is very different from that of a miner and a crafter. We cannot solely look upon the dmg/pec of a weapon and "conclude" that we're being "eco". A very hard hitting mob with high regen, may require that we use a high dmg/sec weapon to kill it as fast as possible while incurring less hits from them to be able to call the kills as being "eco". I'm sure the hunters here are more professional than me so I won't go into it.

Nonetheless, we do need a common set of data to compare results in order to say with a degree of certainty as to whether loot has indeed turned for the worse or was it inappropriate equipment setup.

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Off topic: My thoughts so far on loot changes are currently as such...but may change depending on more information that I manage to get/collect.

Chances are, MA tweaked the loot in such a way that they skimmed the payouts off the top and spreaded it. Maybe not from different mobs but rather mobs of the same maturity and kind. So that lets say the carabok puny we recently saw which gave 100+ peds of loot? So maybe now, we would see less of it and lowered payouts, but that excess is spreaded across the board of all carabok punies such that we see less no looters, more pec-ranged carabok puny looters. And to spread this excess across the board, what better way is there than to use a small TT valued item like nova fragments, blazar fragments and now ammo cells too (which unfortunately, all have 0 or useless MU).

But because of this adjustment, hunters are becoming "even more" tightly squeezed to be "eco".....perhaps down to the pecs. Since there's lower chance to hit a high hof to "recover" your losses. But this of course is just my speculation.....

 

[Cerberis]

There's something wrong with the new loot distribution system. I'm having the worst period ever with losses not beeing returned by the system as it used to be. It is a bug? I'm no longer cycling peds but loosing again and again with no ending. WTH is happening?

New loot system?

 

[sawachika]

Just yesterday, I did a small run of 100 carabok puny kills. The results were somewhat similar to what I've stated in the previous posts.

Pre VU Data:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...r-kept-track&p=3006037&viewfull=1#post3006037

Post VU Data:
http://roamadm.blogspot.com/2012/10/entropia-universe-carabok-puny-hunting_16.html

Although the returns and average loot per carabok killed was somewhat skewed by the 1.2803 ped carabok that I looted, one thing stayed the same.

The number of no looters + bad looters still hovered around 90 to 95. So at the end of the day, I'ld say with a reasonable amount of certainty that on average, 90 to 95% of your kills would be somewhat bad looters while the last 5 to 10% would be the good looters.

However, the amount of peds you loot from the 5 to 10% may be random and sometimes, it would give you enough to "recover" your rate of returns back to the "average" and then continue to drop again.

And yet some other times it would loot "darn good" and brings you "over" your rate of returns and then from there, slowly drop back to the "average".

But ultimately one factor still remains..."How eco are you being?"

 

[skunkjunk]

Just as a disclaimer (in case someone decides to burn me with a flamethrower):

Seeing all the threads and posts about the adjustment in loots, it has in my opinion become worrying...but nonetheless, there is still as usual, "two sides" - pro loot change faction vs against loot change faction.

But apart from the claims (gut feelings) and no data to support either side, it does become difficult to tell what is what.....so we need some facts (data).

Since, I'm just sitting on the fence in this case, could it be possible for you guys who are pro and against, to just humor me for once? Just this once...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The actual spreadsheet i used for hunting is unsuitable for any experiment data collection of your scale since I'm a low level hunter.....(carabok chaser)....I don't use armors, faps and let alone enhancers and whatnots. Thus I spent an hour or two to modify it into something "reasonable" for mid to higher level hunters. If there's anything wrong with it....please tell me.

But here's the link to the spreadsheet anyway:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AniSse5timmidE5BOTRXblRwaW9YWVY5SHZYdHRWTHc

So now down to what I'm trying to do...

Would you guys be nice enough, both "factions", to just hunt 100 of your usual mob....with your "usual" setup. But with the loot and expenses "tracked" according to the spreadsheet?

If that is done, maybe....just maybe....we will have some data to "argue" whether loot is bad....or loot is good?

If there is anything unclear with the spreadsheet or anything wrong with it....please tell me.

Thank you very much.

*** Be prepared to post up the spreadsheet as proof if challenged by the other "faction". ***

100 mobs is not close to a accurate refletion of my hunting. It issent for anyone,return has to be tracked long term. (10k missions should give a nice indication of accually returns). NOTE: Also the 10k missions require people to think about their set up.

Btw my loot is fine and has bin years and if i loosse a lot longer term i know how and why. If this any diffrent for you... hate to tell you its YOU!!!!!!!!!!! (with you i mean every retard on this forum who keeps playing like a idiot , loses and then comes here whining and blaming MA , the weather or alignmend with the stars).

My best gues is the once on forums here crying so badly are the same sort of tards that do trox young in angel and then complain on armor decay...