Become a citizen of Planet Calypso!

[Casay]

Yeah, it does math below:

3.5PED/deed
60000 deeds
25% revenue = goes to deeds
100/25% = 4
3.5 x 60000 x 4 = 840000PED
840000PED = 84000USD

Where do you get 25%? "Each Land Lot deed entitles the holder to a share of the 50% planet partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso."

Also, it says Gross Revenue..... so paying employees as others posted? confused..... lol

 

[Prescott]

Where do you get 25%? "Each Land Lot deed entitles the holder to a share of the 50% planet partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso."

Also, it says Gross Revenue..... so paying employees as others posted? confused..... lol

Yes indeed it says so... but it still just 25%
the reason is that the revenue generated on planet calypso is split 50/50 between Mindark and Entropia AR.
The deed holders get 50% of the planet partners revenue. This is 25% of the total planet revenue.

 

[dougkush]

3.5 (ped) * 60000 * 4 * 0.1 = 84,000 ped = $8400

Rgds

Ace

It should be $84000USD since you took account for the ped conversion rate in the calculation.

 

[billairboy]

What does the * 0.1 stand for in front of the equation symbol then?

The 0.1 should not be there.
It should be 840 000 peds/84 000USD.

MA gets 42 000 USD
Calypsy planetparnter (MA) 21 000 USD
Land deeds holders 21 000 USD (but only some are actually owned by players, the rest goes to MA)

 

[-Archangel-]

It should be $84000USD since you took account for the ped conversion rate in the calculation.

Exactly

3.5PED (week revenue for players) * 60000(number of shares) * 4 (revenue for players represent only 25% of total revenue)

= 840000 PED = 84000 USD

In 52 Weaks it would mean 4368000 USD




My doubts on the deeds were more along this lines

What TAX LAW is MA using

Meaning are the revenues for the deeds being counted as profit distribuition or expenses

 

[Ace Flyster]

What does the * 0.1 stand for in front of the equation symbol then?

The 0.1 is 10% left after loot is paid. Ie an avatar decays 100 ped killing mob, MA pay 90% in loot back difference = 10% left over for MA

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: but as 11k deeds (close enough for this) are already in the hands of avatars, that is 11000 * 3.5 = $3850 that MA is not getting

So

It is more like $8000 this week that MA earns before expenses, like salaries, rent etc

Which does not sound like much to me

 

[Joat]

Exactly

3.5PED (week revenue for players) * 60000(number of shares) * 4 (revenue for players represent only 25% of total revenue)

= 840000 PED = 84000 USD

In 52 Weaks it would mean 4368000 USD




My doubts on the deeds were more along this lines

What TAX LAW is MA using

Meaning are the revenues for the deeds being counted as profit distribuition or expenses

Don't worry about tax law as long the value stays within EU. As long as it does,
it's just a value with no RL-value, a value which MA owns all and everything of,
within the service called Entropia Universe...

 

[Ace Flyster]

The more i think about it, the more incredulous it is

Lets take an extreme example, CLD's get 100% of revenue

-All revenue goes to Avatars, bought by investers that take all money out of game, leaves no money left over for MA to develop planet, pay salaries/rent etc
-company goes bust

CLDs get 25%, all CLD's bought by investers that take money out of game
-MA are throwing away 25% of REVENUE with no money input

I know the one above is extremely unlikely, but some of the 25% will definitely be taken out. And what ever is, does not generate any income for MA. Previously all money earnt ingame was from other players. This is directly from MA, with no money input

I am struggling to see the business sense, i understand their need for $6m, but is this really the best course?....i suppose that MA are hoping the vast majority of it stays in game and gets recycled. But it just seems like a big risk

Although saying all that, i still bought two shares lol and plan to buy more

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: if most of that 25% is withdrawn, MA have cut their revenue by 25% with the same running costs??????????????

 

[Sircus]

The more i think about it, the more incredulous it is

Lets take an extreme example, CLD's get 100% of revenue

-All revenue goes to Avatars, bought by investers that take all money out of game, leaves no money left over for MA to develop planet, pay salaries/rent etc
-company goes bust

CLDs get 25%, all CLD's bought by investers that take money out of game
-MA are throwing away 25% of REVENUE with no money input

I know the one above is extremely unlikely, but some of the 25% will definitely be taken out. And what ever is, does not generate any income for MA. Previously all money earnt ingame was from other players. This is directly from MA, with no money input

I am struggling to see the business sense, i understand their need for $6m, but is this really the best course?....i suppose that MA are hoping the vast majority of it stays in game and gets recycled. But it just seems like a big risk

Although saying all that, i still bought two shares lol and plan to buy more

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: if most of that 25% is withdrawn, MA have cut their revenue by 25% with the same running costs??????????????

New GR stream is 25% PP and 75% MA. The problem is MA spending our 25% GR so there isnt enough to withdraw with the ever more increased need for deposits. MA just pushed a small snowball off a mountain and expect it to be a small snowball when it has rolled down. The 25% GR lost for the PP means slower development for the PP, less new content, less staff and so on. The cookie needs to be big enough for 25% GR to be big enough for a PP to be able to keep a small dev. team. and cash out profit.

FPC/AP changing owners after the deed sale is complete for some pocketmoney isnt unthinkable.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

The 0.1 is 10% left after loot is paid. Ie an avatar decays 100 ped killing mob, MA pay 90% in loot back difference = 10% left over for MA

Isn't revenue what is taken out after loot has been given?

 

[-Archangel-]

I am struggling to see the business sense, i understand their need for $6m, but is this really the best course?....i suppose that MA are hoping the vast majority of it stays in game and gets recycled. But it just seems like a big risk

You know that most high risk investor funds usually expect more than 20% per year (in case things go right)

Also do you know any bank or investment fund willing to give MA a loan of 6 Million without having MA to offer any colateral assurancies ?

 

[Anhithe]

The more i think about it, the more incredulous it is

I am struggling to see the business sense, i understand their need for $6m, but is this really the best course?....i suppose that MA are hoping the vast majority of it stays in game and gets recycled. But it just seems like a big risk

Although saying all that, i still bought two shares lol and plan to buy more

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: if most of that 25% is withdrawn, MA have cut their revenue by 25% with the same running costs??????????????

Personally I think this makes great sense from MAs POV. If planet calypso was sold again, the software house would have received all of the planet partner gross profit (planet partners revenue). By keeping the planet, assuming all CLDs sell, MA get 50% of this planet gross revenue retained to cover the costs of maintaining Calypso which will be far less than it would cost a planet partner to run the planet and they still get the 6 million they valued it at. MA already have the infrastructure and staff in place and only need a few additional dedicated resources plus they get a UAT environment for platform changes whilst retaining creative control (bar some player input).

Even at the initial low payment of 3.5 per deed deed, thats 21000 dollars a week retained by MA to run calypso or 1,092,000 per annum to cover the costs, more than enough I would say.

 

[Atraie]

The more i think about it, the more incredulous it is

Lets take an extreme example, CLD's get 100% of revenue

-All revenue goes to Avatars, bought by investers that take all money out of game, leaves no money left over for MA to develop planet, pay salaries/rent etc
-company goes bust

CLDs get 25%, all CLD's bought by investers that take money out of game
-MA are throwing away 25% of REVENUE with no money input

I know the one above is extremely unlikely, but some of the 25% will definitely be taken out. And what ever is, does not generate any income for MA. Previously all money earnt ingame was from other players. This is directly from MA, with no money input

I am struggling to see the business sense, i understand their need for $6m, but is this really the best course?....i suppose that MA are hoping the vast majority of it stays in game and gets recycled. But it just seems like a big risk

Although saying all that, i still bought two shares lol and plan to buy more

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: if most of that 25% is withdrawn, MA have cut their revenue by 25% with the same running costs??????????????

Well they are trading 25% future revenue for 6 million cash infusion, and potentially a few thousand promoters. People with deeds, especially a lot of deeds will be more likely to mention the game in a positive light. Doesnt mean they will, but they would think about their investment before saying negative things!

Even a relatively small number of new players could easily make up for the 25% of current revenue lost. If they dont get new players, then ya its a bad move. If they do, its a good move at this time.

They have 3-4 years to increase the player base and ped turnover of calypso 33% to be back where they started in revenue.(why 33%? 100% - 25% = 75% * (100%+33%) = 100%)

And thats assuming that 25% is removed. A large chunk of it will be cycled right back into the economy.

Companies trade revenue(in a bunch of forms) for cash infusions all the time.

 

[Xavier Target]

if most of that 25% is withdrawn, MA have cut their revenue by 25% with the same running costs??????????????

Thats it!!!! I'm moving to Arkaidia where my decay improves that planet instead of going into other players pockets....
Time for the calypso non-citizen colonist exodus!!!

 

[Ace Flyster]

Well they are trading 25% future revenue for 6 million cash infusion, and potentially a few thousand promoters. People with deeds, especially a lot of deeds will be more likely to mention the game in a positive light. Doesnt mean they will, but they would think about their investment before saying negative things!

Even a relatively small number of new players could easily make up for the 25% of current revenue lost. If they dont get new players, then ya its a bad move. If they do, its a good move at this time.

They have 3-4 years to increase the player base and ped turnover of calypso 33% to be back where they started in revenue.(why 33%? 100% - 25% = 75% * (100%+33%) = 100%)

And thats assuming that 25% is removed. A large chunk of it will be cycled right back into the economy.

Companies trade revenue(in a bunch of forms) for cash infusions all the time.

I didnt think of it like that, and very good points!

3 years is a long time to increase player base!

I was just going through, and it did seem rather incredulous. Bigger picture thinking certainly helps lol

Rgds

Ace

 

[billairboy]

The 0.1 is 10% left after loot is paid. Ie an avatar decays 100 ped killing mob, MA pay 90% in loot back difference = 10% left over for MA

The loot don't effect the revenue, the revenue for the planets are based on the decays and fees, so the 10 % left is invalid.

 

[Anhithe]

Thats it!!!! I'm moving to Arkaidia where my decay improves that planet instead of going into other players pockets....
Time for the calypso non-citizen colonist exodus!!!

Or stay on calypso where a portion of money that has already been take out (decay), is given back to players, some will withdraw and some will spend.

Another way of looking at the CLD deal is that MA has always taken decay from us, they have either kept it or given up some of it to a planet partner. In this case some of it is going back in to the system. Its about how this changes player behaviour, for example if someone who used to deposit regularly stops and then only withdraws (and have given MA money for the opportunity). If someone stops depositing and instead spends the same amount on playing from CLD revenue then it should make little or no difference as the PED was already taken out of circulation, IMO this will almost be better in some cases as they will spend regularly and arguably stay around longer. Then there is also people who will still deposit and spend their CLD revenue. This is of course not counting a potential increase in player base or mass exodus to another planet!

its all about how much activity there is on Calypso but that challenge was already there.

 

[Ace Flyster]

The loot don't effect the revenue, the revenue for the planets are based on the decays and fees, so the 10 % left is invalid.

Then its a good thing i did not say that loot affects revenue

Rgds

Ace

 

[ALEXANDER]

we are all missing the point here... If MA does not start that campaign soon enough, so we can get new players into the game, all is in vain. The constant decrease in the active playerbase in the last 2 years shows that if trends continue, 2013 will find Calypso as an empty and deserted planet. MA knows that very well, that's why the sudden marketing fund rise.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

The more i think about it, the more incredulous it is

Lets take an extreme example, CLD's get 100% of revenue

-All revenue goes to Avatars, bought by investers that take all money out of game, leaves no money left over for MA to develop planet, pay salaries/rent etc
-company goes bust

CLDs get 25%, all CLD's bought by investers that take money out of game
-MA are throwing away 25% of REVENUE with no money input

I know the one above is extremely unlikely, but some of the 25% will definitely be taken out. And what ever is, does not generate any income for MA. Previously all money earnt ingame was from other players. This is directly from MA, with no money input

I am struggling to see the business sense, i understand their need for $6m, but is this really the best course?....i suppose that MA are hoping the vast majority of it stays in game and gets recycled. But it just seems like a big risk

Although saying all that, i still bought two shares lol and plan to buy more

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: if most of that 25% is withdrawn, MA have cut their revenue by 25% with the same running costs??????????????

This has nothing to do with business sense as you're illustrating it, and everything to do with their own written business agreements with the other Planet Partners.

By both developing and maintaining Planet Calypso as well as doing contract development for Rocktropia, Next Island, Arkadia, Cyrene, Toulan, Theryon, and any other Planet Partner MA is potentially in breach of contract and leaves themselves exposed to suits involving conflict of interest.

This is the only reason that they sold a PROFITABLE Planet Calypso to SEE. When that deal fell through they had already budgeted the 6m. Im sure they tossed around the idea of selling it to another group, but what effect would that have on the only 100% working planet in their universe if it suddenly fell into neglect and disrepair after being kicked from Planet Partner to Planet Partner without any development.

This is simply a compromise. UNIVERSE AB was created with the sole purpose in mind of establishing a Trust for the players, and maintaining that trust. The administrator of the trust is taking a 25% fee for administration (IE continued development, maintenance, and updates), and the trustees, the Land Lot holders, get paid their 25% share.

Now MA gets to maintain their crown jewel with the caveat that they will likely be accepting lot holder input for their priorities much like a shareholder gets to vote on corporate matters in real life. The foundation of Entropia Universe is thus preserved.

Now to those who say EU is going bankrupt, or will fold in 2013, etc. If that's the case then answer me this.

1) WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?

2) Why are planet partners still signing on for development? Why have they not halted development and closed their doors, cutting their losses?

Really. You guys need to look at the big picture and not just the mothballs in your wallets.

 

[Casay]

Yes indeed it says so... but it still just 25%
the reason is that the revenue generated on planet calypso is split 50/50 between Mindark and Entropia AR.
The deed holders get 50% of the planet partners revenue. This is 25% of the total planet revenue.

Ty! + Rep..

Now to all you negative ppl that think 18% return on something is a bad thing.. well.... I'd LOVE to know where else you invest and get that much or even half of that...for a minimum $100 investment. You can just go away and keep your money in your pockets but keep your unrealistic opinions to yourself!

Overall, I'm very pleased with the first numbers. I honestly expected it to be lower and am very thrilled as it seems MA is in a better financial situation that many companies right now. Or at least it's better than what I thought it was. Week to week the numbers will go up / down. OMG, what if it only pays 15% two weeks in a row? I can just imagine the crap that will get posted here.

I think of this as a long term investment into something I love to do. I'm pleased with the opportunity to invest in it even if it's just a little bit. I'm hoping the money raised by MA is used wisely on promotions and marketing and not pissed away on marketing firms that were useless as before.

Off to decay some weapons and armor in a bit

 

[tamlin]

Really. You guys need to look at the big picture and not just the mothballs in your wallets.

I honestly would like your kind of money to play with. Really.

 

[Leona]

I'd LOVE to know where else you invest and get that much or even half of that...for a minimum $100 investment.

I totally agree that the return is fine and all. But can we just stop comparing those deeds to RL investments please? That makes no sense because nothing we as player do ingame is investing.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Invest in your Avatar.....Where have I heard that before ?

 

[In Love With]

I totally agree that the return is fine and all. But can we just stop comparing those deeds to RL investments please? That makes no sense because nothing we as player do ingame is investing.

why not?

I have deposited 20k dollars to buy an OLA ... How is this NOT an investment?

Angel

 

[remontoire]

EDIT: if most of that 25% is withdrawn, MA have cut their revenue by 25% with the same running costs??????????????

Well, not MA, just the part accountable to Calypso.

Another way of looking at this is - this is the same drop if everybody left Calypso for other planets.

 

[ermik]

why not?

I have deposited 20k dollars to buy an OLA ... How is this NOT an investment?

Angel

because you dont own your OLA nor your 20k dollars.

ive never heard of an investment where you dont own something, its called giving something away.

then its up to MA to give it back to you, when you make a withdrawal request.

 

[Kimmi]

because you dont own your OLA nor your 20k dollars.

ive never heard of an investment where you dont own something, its called giving something away.

then its up to MA to give it back to you, when you make a withdrawal request.

Are you saying I can not withdraw my Eon SGA and wear it

 

[Ionar]

because you dont own your OLA nor your 20k dollars.

ive never heard of an investment where you dont own something, its called giving something away.

then its up to MA to give it back to you, when you make a withdrawal request.

So far I've never heard of such a "request" being denied (though it does take some time) so I don't see any reason to doubt MA on that point.

 

[Leona]

why not?

I have deposited 20k dollars to buy an OLA ... How is this NOT an investment?

Finance investment is putting money into something with the expectation of gain, that upon thorough analysis, has a high degree of security for the principal amount, as well as security of return, within an expected period of time. In contrast putting money into something with an expectation of gain without thorough analysis, without security of principal, and without security of return is speculation or gambling.

...

To avoid speculation an investment must be either directly backed by the pledge of sufficient collateral or insured by sufficient assets pledged by a third party.

You are playing investing and thats fine, but you ain't doing it by any real life standards. The value of your landarea is not backed up by MA, the deed has no TT value.

There is no physical good that you possess, infact taxable landareas with same or better attributes can be created with nearly no effort (ask asteroid dome buyers about it).

You could not have done thorough analysis before buying because the future value and return of the investment is 100% under the control of an other entity (MindArk) and you had and still have zero insight about what plans they have.

New landareas on other planets not using fertilizer, does this affect the value of your LA? Did you know about that future change when you bought your LA?

In real life you also have uncontrollable aspects of course, but in this case you only have variables not foreseeable by you.

Buying a landarea, buying an hangar, buying high value gear is an expression of trust into MindArk and the planet partners and into your abbility to guess how those entities will handle things in the future. Even the ingame currency itself is nothing else but an expression of trust in one company. But as you buy your landarea or hangar 100% at markup your speculation goes far beyond that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, my point was that by any normal real life standard all EU 'investment like' activities are considered speculation and gambling. And because of this it makes no sense to compare EU deed returns with the interests on an saving account.

Speculators and gamblers, well aware about the high risk, simply expect an higher return for the risk. And they also have no right to complain if it doesn't work out, there was no guarantees given in the first place.