Bugs and design flaws in space or impacting gaming in space

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John Black Knight
After close to two years of space being out there and many bugs/design flaws existing just as long while having an influx of new players to the game i thought it would be a good idea to put a list together of everything that does not work like it should in space everything that players and mindark should be aware off.

Please post your input on this thread bug/design flaw and i will aim to maintain an updated list.
Please lets also try to list since when a certain bug started showing so we can track when they have been active/inactive.


Below a gathering of what has been collected in this thread so far.

Throughout the game there is unpredictable client crashes happening often since a few months, where the eu client just vanishes.
Getting in or out of a seat, ending a Warp, using the TPs between ships and stations, entering the atmosphere of a planet can get you DCed.
There is many little bugs which result from this synchronisation/data exchange issues between servers.

Since the last attempt of 'fixing' gunner seats on motherships, many of them are not accessible anymore.

Space mobs are shielding each other and become unhitable - the system does not register that shots were fired at them even though the mob is correctly aimed, lighted up and the ammo for the shot is used.

Critical hits only do normal damage in space, opposing to the double damage they do on planets.

The summon message still pops up for players instead of getting displayed like a message, this often leads to people unintentionally ending up in space because they clicked the wrong button.

No warning message for passengers in sleipnirs and quadwings when flying up to space, they are not given the choice to decline entering the pvp environment.

Its good that we can log out whereever we are, but the ability to surpass the game systems by transporting stuff while not even ingame lures many people to logout of the game to perform an ingame task while the correct design should be to keep people in the game to accomplish things.

Gunning range in space has still not been balanced with ship movement speeds, maneuverabilty and ship sizes in mind - exspecially the different size of target boxes often creates lots of issues in space (like showing a different distance to target for one player then for the other when they aim at each other).

At the atmosphere when going down to a planet a "ghost" of your avatar and quad can be left behind. You can be on the planet and this "ghost" can be shot down and your avatar killed and looted. Meanwhile you fall over dead at the auctions. This one has been happening for the last couple of months.

If you are in your quad or sleipnir and hovering too close to a MS entry/exit when the ship warps you can be thrown into space and left behind.

At all times warp ship owners and pilots need to be wary that the server they are warping from or to is not being restarted. This is a very dangerous time. When this occurrs your ship is likely to become bugged and will remain in a "locked warp" until there is a new vu release as there is no action taken on support cases on this matter the 'fix' is just happening by itself when servers get restarted again.

Warp vessel owners need the ability to assign 'Captain's rights' to other avatars not unlike allowing them access to gunner seats for example. Selected avatars should be able to have the ability to summon passengers and add/remove modules like warp drives.

Vehicle Guest lists need to be drastically streamlined to allow owners to differentiate different types of passengers. (Subscription vs. VIP passengers for instance)

Avatars keep falling through graphic textures or get stuck in them because they take to long to load, there needs to be a security check in the system that keeps things in place independant from a local clients graphics power.

Avatars in the gunner seats are kicked out into the mothership at the end of warping.

Warp ships jumping and changing their location just because someone got in or out of the pilot seat. The location of a spacecraft should be determined by itself and not by the pilot.

Mobs stopping to attack a spacecraft just because all avatars switched to the inside (another server), making hunting in space unrealistic. Spacecrafts should keep mobaggro by themself and keep it even when no avatar is outside. This would also make sure that larger groups of mobs dont get stuck into each other from holding aggro of different gunners in different positions.
 
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the warning msg is removed? now??

opps for passengers yes opps misread

i like the summoning as a msg box
but some how show your being summoned to get your attention? cause sometimes people... well you know how they can be
 
but some how show your being summoned to get your attention? cause sometimes people... well you know how they can be

Missing a ship because of not paying attention is a lesser evil than ending up in space in the middle of a hunting run with tons of stackables. You weren't in a hurry anyway if you weren't keeping an eye for the summon.
 
Space mobs are shielding each other and become unhitable - the system does not register that shots were fired at them.

To add some clarity to this, every shot counts in space, you lose 1 ped per shot for each shot, not like if you shoot into thin air on planet.

So when a mob blocks another, you see all the health bars light up as you would with a normal target, so you shoot at it, lose the few peds of shots till you realise your not getting a damage message. Its a right pain in the arse to say the least.

In an average 200 ped gunning round ( a locusta collect, say 5 collects in a night), i could lease easily 30 ped on this bug ever time. Given that returns in space are usually around the 40-50% mark, this makes the situation even more dire.
 
My recent experience with MS turrets left me shocked with how claustrophobia-inducing they can be, and how poorly positioned. There's got to be a better way to display the gunner's view. ETA: Forgot to say that it's far too easy to hit the ship itself when trying to shoot mobs (at least i assume that's what was happening, as mentioned the view is pretty bad. I guess it could be summed up by saying that shooting from the MS turrets is an awkward and nonintuitive experience.

Also, that there is no systemic consequence for piracy in a virtual universe set in a technological future. It's a massive lack of coherency in game play that pirates can freely access the public services like auction, tt, revive and repair terminal without any penalty or risk of "incarceration". If you want to design your virtual universe to allow crime, that's fine, but to do so while leaving out the balancing forces is really silly.
 
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The bug that annoys me most, was when the ms gun range got messed up - back when space was rescaled.

They rescaled the ms, making them so large that they cant cover their own asses now. With no rear guns it means, that pirates can shoot at a motherhship out of its gunning range. Quite frankly ridiculous. Either increase the MS gun range so she can at least cover her own back, or open up a rear gun.

The elaboration on that issue is that pirates who have no interest in shooting a ship down, merely want to harass - will continually fire off one shot at the ms as she tries to warp. Like a tp chip charging this will abort the warp.

The ms gunners cant shoot back as the pirates do it from out of range. There are of course ways to get around this bug, scrambling quads etc - however the fact remains that after the space rescale this range bug made the ms guns less able to defend against harrasing pirates, which shouldnt be the case.

Imagine you are in supremacy or some uber armour :p you have a big hugemoungus gun too.. you try to tp away but some noob hits you once with an opalo. Your chips aborts, you try to shoot them back - you cant, you dont have the range. They are twice as fast as you so if you try to move towards them, they just move back a bit. You charge your tp chip again, pew, they hit you with the shot from the opalo again. Rinse and repeat over and over. You option? you have to call in your mates with their oplaos to go chase the harasser - great :mad:

I dont think this would go down very well on planet, but seems nothing gets fixed about it in space.
 
Unfortunately for you and your crew JBK.... I don't think MindArk is gonna bother spending too much time and money on space for the small handful that ACTUALLY USE IT FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN PLANET TO PLANET TRAVEL AND AUTO-SKILLING.

Be a heck of a lot of money in development so that ToS can shoot some space mobs and partake in a bit of role-play.

So you see.... one of 2 things has to happen.....

- They leave space as is cuz no-one uses it anyway and it's still good enough for planet travel.
- They add MANY MANY more privateers, motherships, and other large craft for reasonable prices so that more people can take advantage of space and enjoy it.

#1 You get screwed cuz space will always be shitty. #2 You get screwed cuz the value of your motherships will crash. Which do you prefer?

Don't worry.... PK'ers are going through the EXACT same thing right now. People don't bother pissing the PEDs away to take part so MA don't work too hard improving PVP for a small handful. Now MA either leaves it as is... or starts dropping PK gear like rain so every noob on the planet can afford to take part thus making it a worthwhile investment to improve the associated systems.

Menace
 
I agree that while "Space" is functional but extremely buggy. I would like to believe that MindArk is working on these problems. I also think it is a great soncept to start this thread to help people to be more aware of things that can happen in Space.

1. Ghosts
At the Atmoshoere when going down to a Planet a "Ghost" of your Avatar and Quad can be left behind. You can be on the Planet and this "Ghost" can be shot down and your Avatar killed and looted. Meanwhile you fall over dead at the Auctions. This one has been happening for the last couple of months.

2. MS Warp Boot
If you are in your Quad or Sleipnir and hovering too close to a MS entry/exit when the ship Warps you can be thrown into Spacce and left behind. I don't think this is actually a big and has been around for a very long time.

3. Locked in Warp
At all times Warp Ship Owners and Pilots need to be wary that the Server they are Warping from or to is not being restarted. This is a very dangerous time. When this occurrs your ship is likely to beocme bugged and will remain in a "Locked Warp" until there is a new VU Release. MindArk seems to be unwilling to do anything about this or VU Releases are the only thing that can fix it. Not exactly sure which is the case.

4.Constant Disconnections.
These are painful beyond belief. Getting in or out of a seat can get you DCed. Ending a Warp can get you DCed. Using the TPs between Ships and Stations can get you DCed. Entering the Atmosphere of a Planet can get you DCed. It seems, at times, just logging in can get you DCed.


Additional Issues:
Avatars in Quads and Sleipnirs Logging off to avaoid being Pirated, this is an issue that has been around for quite some time. This and logging off to Server Line jump to Space Station, to reduce time and costs of travelling between Planets is an issue that I think MindArk are seriously looking at.

Weapons in Space:
TO clarify: MS Guns = 1 PED, Privateer Guns =70 PEC and Quad Guns =40 PEC.
Regardless of these costs not actually shooting at a target when you thought you were is a huge PED Burn especially with Loot Returns being so low.

Gun positions and defence capablilites are beyond rediculous. The positioning of the Gun Seats and the actual location of the corresponding Gun is FUBAR to say the least. You jump in the Front Right Gun seat to spend an hour to figure out you are operating the Back Left GUn. Please, some simplicity here would help for sure.

Gun Ranges are something I think MindArk is trying to work on and will most liekly take some patience on our part. Hopefully not as much as is required for Taming.

In reagrds to the "Future of Space"
Space Mining is hopefully going to be considered for later this year. I look forward to that with some anticipation. Possibly new ships will be introduced for this. There are long term plans for more Ships I think, but how long term and what their functionality and costs will be is still unknown. It is very possible they will have a profound effect on the values of current ships. I am sure MindArk will keep in imnd the expense that current Ship Owners need to spend on SI when iniating these ships.

New Space Mobs would be great too. Hopefully something that can seriously slap a MS or Privateer around. To date it seems that the current mobs are little more then bee stings even though they cost a small fortune to hunt down. Maybe a serious reconstruction of costs and damage needs to be considered. Perhaps this would encourage more activity in Space, I don;t know.....
 
im sure MA is aware of these issues, they just dont care
 
* Warp vessel owners need the ability to assign 'Captain's rights' to other avatars not unlike allowing them access to gunner seats for example. Selected avatars should be able to have the ability to summon passengers and add/remove modules like warp drives.

This would allow owners to safely rent their vessels to other players without compromising the deed to said vessel.



* Vehicle Guest lists need to be drastically streamlined to allow owners to differentiate different types of passengers. (Subscription vs. VIP passengers for instance)


* The graphics must be optimized at some point. People are tired of falling through floors and long load times even on high end graphics cards.


* PvP balance issues must be addressed. The ability to take a warp capable vessel out of warp status must become a bit more difficult than firing one shot at it from a Quad. Security must be added to the server to prevent speed hacks and the like.

* Quad wings need to have a fuel limit imposed. Quad wings should be short-range vessels. They should never be allow to travel across a server line. A warp capable vessel should be required for this.


These are a few ideas. I'm sure I'll come up with more.
 
Good thread!
However, in all seriousness, the biggest bug seems to be a mental one surrounding design and implementation.
So very many hours been spent on a system that is just left sort of incomplete with bugs or features that could be changed in possibly just minutes.
One of the results is that space is very much underused, which may in some regards be the intention - we don't know really, do we?
It does seem strange to have increased the number of mob types in space, but to make hunting them an absolute pain, however. I imagine that both the bugs of wasted peds firing with no hit, as well as the lack of working crit hit, are ones that could be fairly quickly solved. So why aren't they?

I can only think that it is the mindset again of not being bothered that a system is 99% working, but the final 1% just kills it. Imagine a railway line of 1000 km that stops 50 m from the station platforms at one or both ends - AND stays that way! That's how I think of so much of what gets developed and then 'abandoned' here.

And yes, the argument may be that almost nobody is using the railway, so why should the final metres be fixed? But it's a very very stupid one - and one most likely to be used by people who can't be bothered to either do anything about it or to even think up a better excuse!

I still hope that mining and other developments are being prepared for space. To that end it is good to list the problems with space now, so that work on new ship designs etc can take the problems into account.
Certainly battle-enabled ships should not have blind spots or gun ranges that enable attackers to attack in safety.

Also, sloppiness such as passengers not being asked to confirm entry to lootable pvp is pretty big.
As for adding to the list, it may not be a bug, but I find it incredible there is no report of what is stolen by a pirate if you get looted. It would be bad enough to not know the inventory loss even if all was working 100%, but with issues such as ghosting or accidentally accepting a summons and possibly being destroyed seconds later, not having the documentation of what is lost is a very bad oversight in my opinion. Losses should be listed in chat (saved to text on local computer) at the very least.

What are the chances of this being in the new chat interface system? Thinking positively, shots and melee not aimed at mobs in non-pvp do not cost us anymore, one of the better recent fixes MA has made. Go on MA, inject a few more positives like that one please!
 
I am tempted to say: Bring back taming first...

But as I like space very much and own a privateer, I will bring a small contribution to this thread.

For me the three main issues are:

1. Being locked in warp mode (as mentioned by Sakuba earlier)
Very worrying as the ship cannot be used (cannot warp, cannot cross servers) until it is reset (by VU or by support)

2. Being docked at space station while in deep space
Not a problem in itself but an open door for exploits

3. Very poor Dropship spawn
The Dropship spawn is not dense enough... Make it more dense so that we can really enjoy their "hunt".
 
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What a boring thread...

How about these:

1. Walking in Space (between planets or whatever)

2. Using TP chips in Space

3. Mining in Space

4. Naked Opalo (or whatever) hunts on Space mobs with zero damage

5. Leaving objects in Space

6. Building roads in Space and running on them (much faster than a Quad btw)

7. Making a regular Quad twice faster and burning twice less fuel.

8. Doing it all while invisible to "pirates" (those guys are a joke really) or mamaboats..

.. not the whole list of fun just off the top of my head
 
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* Warp vessel owners need the ability to assign 'Captain's rights' to other avatars not unlike allowing them access to gunner seats for example. Selected avatars should be able to have the ability to summon passengers and add/remove modules like warp drives.

This would allow owners to safely rent their vessels to other players without compromising the deed to said vessel.
You forgot to ad that these select avatars should have the ability to ad and remove people from the GL.


* Vehicle Guest lists need to be drastically streamlined to allow owners to differentiate different types of passengers. (Subscription vs. VIP passengers for instance)
The GL should be more like FL, being in alphabetical order (instead of the current random order) and also have a search function for ease in finding particular passengers.


* The graphics must be optimized at some point. People are tired of falling through floors and long load times even on high end graphics cards.
I'm tired of getting stuck during my runs to different repair points just cause I can't see the floor.


* PvP balance issues must be addressed. The ability to take a warp capable vessel out of warp status must become a bit more difficult than firing one shot at it from a Quad. Security must be added to the server to prevent speed hacks and the like.
Give me back the rear facing MS guns. They were not good before, but we could at least map out the guns and shoot those pesky pirates that want to annoy us by interrupting warp in the hopes that soon other pirates will log in.

* Quad wings need to have a fuel limit imposed. Quad wings should be short-range vessels. They should never be allow to travel across a server line. A warp capable vessel should be required for this.
This one I must disagree with. Unless you are willing to buy a mothership and be online 24hours a day 7 days a week and active that entire time. There are to many times I have had to take my quad because no active MS owners were online. (And I am fairly sure that I have more MS owners on my FL than the average player has)
 
I don't think its been mentioned yet, but the bug were people in the gunner seats are kicked out into the mothership at the end of warping.

We've had this bug for 2 or 3 months at least already.
 
I remembered another one myself while reading through this today:

Warp ships jumping and changes their location just because someone got in or out of the Pilot Seat. This can actually be quite a bad one. On occasion I have docked the Bismarck on the edge of the PVP Zone. When leaving the Pilot seat it has been jumped back into the PVP.

The Guest List System on Warp Ships, whilst not being a bug, most definetly could use a serious overhaul.
 
Hey.. Maybe devide the list in 2, actual bugs and design flaws.

Here is a few more.
*
Sometimes targets and tags gets "stuck" and you can see them, there movements across whole space. It happends rarely but been going on for long.

*
Visual planet disapears (and som other gfx) or gets moved somewhere else in the universe. (you see all planets to same direction).

*
Warp is not visible from inside (it use to show, probably some bug MA dont care about fixing).

*
If a server go down and you get stuck so you cant exit pilot and you relog or DC you end up down calypso. This happend to me twice. once outside NI and once at Arkadia SS.

*
Vehicles continues to fly if you DC even if your not in autopilot mode.

/Slay
 
A couple more that I have heard about /known about but did not remember at the time of my earlier posts:

Lokia got shot down and killed by a Pirate at Calypso yesterday. When she respwned she found herself at Arkadia Space Station on Starfinder XXiV (The last Warp she had been on).

Also:

I have known for some time (and sllipped my mind) occassionally you can log in on a ship that may be located anywhere in Space(including the PVP Areas) and you are able to access the Teleporter and all Space Stations are avaialbe and accessible.
 
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Came across a bug/design flaw that has apparently been around for some time. New discovery for me, but I flet worth mentioning.

Upon returning to Arkadia on our Scheduled Flights yesterday we were attacked by a number of Pirates at the Arkadian Atmosphere. On there initial attack I reversed the Bismarck to scoop back in people leaving the ship. In doing this I reversed the ship a little longer then I normally would have. I noticed the Pirates were concentrating on the front of the ship and realised that there was a possibility that they could not reach the rear of the ship due to its positioning.

Eventually the Bismarck was destroyed, throwing a good number of people into space to become fodder for the Pirates or so I thought was the case....

As it turns out they only managed to kill for or five of the crew. It seems the rest (In excess of ten crew and passengers)were thrown into "Deep Space" where they became invisible and unable to be targeted.

I have been informed that this has been around for some time and even used from time to time by some people. As this is the first I have learned of it I obviously have no idea and while some people may think this is great, I feel it is also a bit of a design flaw and should most likely not be practiced.
 
Came across a bug/design flaw that has apparently been around for some time. New discovery for me, but I flet worth mentioning.

Upon returning to Arkadia on our Scheduled Flights yesterday we were attacked by a number of Pirates at the Arkadian Atmosphere. On there initial attack I reversed the Bismarck to scoop back in people leaving the ship. In doing this I reversed the ship a little longer then I normally would have. I noticed the Pirates were concentrating on the front of the ship and realised that there was a possibility that they could not reach the rear of the ship due to its positioning.

Eventually the Bismarck was destroyed, throwing a good number of people into space to become fodder for the Pirates or so I thought was the case....

As it turns out they only managed to kill for or five of the crew. It seems the rest (In excess of ten crew and passengers)were thrown into "Deep Space" where they became invisible and unable to be targeted.

I have been informed that this has been around for some time and even used from time to time by some people. As this is the first I have learned of it I obviously have no idea and while some people may think this is great, I feel it is also a bit of a design flaw and should most likely not be practiced.


That's an interesting one, I've heard of ships hitting the "deep space wall" but never of people being thrown out of a destroyed ship and ending on the other side of the wall so to speak. But then to be fair, I don't think I've ever been near a ship being destroyed at atmosphere for the first hand experience that would be required. I definitely don't know enough about game programming to see how that works from a technical point of view, well except maybe jumping Lara croft through a wall and out of the game... :laugh:


I guess with the reversing it put Bismarks bum on the other side of said wall, did your pilot also get the " cannot enter deep space" message?

There was an occasion I flew in my quad and got stuck on the other side, re log wouldn't fix it, had to get MA to move me. I thought that was a one off though, but maybe not! Although funnily enough that was also at Arkadia Atmosphere. Did your people who were on the other side get revived ok? Or get stuck too?
 
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Definte Design Flaw
I noticedthis some time ago but did not realise until today how much of a bad Design Flaw it really was. Something I hope MindArk are looking closely at changing in the future.

When warping the altitude you warp at is the altitude you end at when warping. If you enter Warp at +300 when you exit warp you are still at +300. In this aspect, even though Space is three dimensional, it can only be operated in a two dimensional perspective. Under general gameplay where you are simply warping from one place to another this is not a really big problem.

Once you hit a Warp Mine and then Warp from that point it becomes a serious pain in the preverbial. I have not checked the Altitudes of all the Warp Gates at this point however some are set at around -2000 (-2 AU). I know of that at least two of them are at this depth. Erabos being one of them. After being bought out of warp there today and able to warp on to Calypso Spjere I found we were more than two AU from the Space Station, yet appeared on the map dirextly out from it where we always Sphere Dock.

Being unable to specifically select an altitude to exit warp at in this case is very time consuming to correct. I have not verified it yet but I suspect it can be corrected by selecting a Space Station as your warp point. If I remember correctly when you choose the Centre of the Safe Zone to Warp to it brings you out of warp directly above the Space Station a short distance into the PVP Area. I will however, have to test this to verify if I am correct. If it is correct this could also prove to be a costly way to correct your altitude.

I look forward to the day that Entropia Space is truely three Dimensional and we are able to choose "Height" as part of our destination when warping.
 
I'll add one to the list as well. This is an issue on privateers that I've withnessed many times. Most likely to happen if the ship is still moving, but not necessarily.

Upon exiting the pilot seat you find yourself positioned on top of the ship in a way that you can see inside. Sometimes you can walk on top of it, sometimes you cannot.
If this happens in combat when you want to run to the TT you may be screwed. When you are close enough you can click the pilot seat from there and step out again, but often you will find the target is too far away and you have to either log off or press T to correct it and wait 60 seconds till you revive at your own terminal.
 
* Quad wings need to have a fuel limit imposed. Quad wings should be short-range vessels. They should never be allow to travel across a server line. A warp capable vessel should be required for this.

How to make alot of people be disgusted and leave the game in one simple idea.
 
Not a bug but a design flaw - ships should only use fuel when accelerating / deaccelerating, and there should be a fuel cost to getting into and out of orbit, not a fee to MA.

There should be a 3d compass / heading indicator, as well as at least 2.5D maps.

Vehicles "falling" away after being destroyed is ridiculous.
 
About the deepspace, I was flying over afk from caly to ark with my sleipnier but had myself aligned wrongly and hit the deepspace wall, I got killed by a pirate and ended up in the deep space... I was able to revive correctly out of it but I thought it was a one timer tho. Maybe they have the visuall and the actuall lines messed up between the actuall deepspace and the vehicle....

also the bug i hate the most is the quad "trick" that pirates use mostly, its unfair and annoying, you cant escape from them...



but hoping that MA will inprove space a bit, remove the deepspace serves (make them flyable to:p ) and maybe more mobs and mining etc.
I personally think it will pull people more to space hunting etc.


Shiiiiia exedential necropost sorry all.... bad habbit of not looking at dates
 
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