Crafting is an abysmal trainwreck for the majority of the playerbase.

Alukat123

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Okay my question, why?
Why can't there just be more BP variety from the onset...or more BPs dropping while crafting?
To buy BPs at that quality means having to rely on elite crafters or people who's spent a lot to make it that far and will charge a great deal to offset that.
At least there should be BPs that skill up to 100 at lower levels faster than mid to high so at least it gives a level ground floor to stand on.
why should there be? there's plenty of BPs already.
QR 100 non-Sib BPs give about 90% TT-return in the long run and 70+% TT-return in individual runs even if you're skill level 0. That makes them good and cheap for skilling to level, especially when you skill on monria with the crafting daylie, it's money well invested.

the rate of skill gains depends on the blueprint level as well as the costs per click.
 

Timewarpman1

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Here are my weekly stats and I'm a really small crafter compared to some whales. Any crafter can guess what I been clicking.


xxxx96.54%
Return106.85%
Clicks10783
Total TT in32349
Total TT out31229.74
MU from blueprints1254
MU total from sales3335.98
xxxx118.32%
Return134.07%
Clicks3880
Total TT in11640
Total TT out13772.83
MU from blueprints915
MU total from sales1833.19


xxxx89.55%
Return106.81%
Clicks5871
Total TT in17613
Total TT out15772.66
MU from blueprints1989
MU total from sales3040.51


xxxx93.31%
Return106.05%
Clicks4018
Total TT in24911.6
Total TT out23245.98
MU from blueprints1622
MU total from sales3171.73
You sure have a lot of money to spend.

And it just reinforces my point. How many are plopping down thousands a week?
 

vilfiina

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You sure have a lot of money to spend.

And it just reinforces my point. How many are plopping down thousands a week?
What you and many others fail to understand - you never win vs house. Not in casino, not in here. Entropia is players playing players, because Mindark always wins. There would be no game with everyone beeing 100%+ TT returns, it's nonsense!

Whatever shit you been crafting, it's your mistake. It's same with explosive crafters, they will never win. They are not even crafters, they are just addicts playing slot machine with 90% TT return. They know they lose, always, and yet they keep clicking, keep losing and keep whining on forums.
 

Timewarpman1

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What you and many others fail to understand - you never win vs house. Not in casino, not in here. Entropia is players playing players, because Mindark always wins. There would be no game with everyone beeing 100%+ TT returns, it's nonsense!

Whatever shit you been crafting, it's your mistake. It's same with explosive crafters, they will never win. They are not even crafters, they are just addicts playing slot machine with 90% TT return. They know they lose, always, and yet they keep clicking, keep losing and keep whining on forums.
That's why it should be changed to balanced as possible.
And you're still being an asshole.
 

Alukat123

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What you and many others fail to understand - you never win vs house. Not in casino, not in here. Entropia is players playing players, because Mindark always wins. There would be no game with everyone beeing 100%+ TT returns, it's nonsense!

Whatever shit you been crafting, it's your mistake. It's same with explosive crafters, they will never win. They are not even crafters, they are just addicts playing slot machine with 90% TT return. They know they lose, always, and yet they keep clicking, keep losing and keep whining on forums.
EP is sib bp and has 95% TT-return in the long run. Also, if you know where to craft, it should still be possible to profit on EP 1, especially now with the ep recycle BPs.

EP 3/4 are pure gambling with garantueed losses ofc. dunno how ep 2 plays out however.

There's quite a few tt-food crafts which allow to profit if you know when and where to craft them. (ofc if the game screws you in terms of tt-return, then they may be losses ofc)
 
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Darth Revan

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Geez, a little conceded there

Yes yes, I'm sure there are but if this isn't common knowledge to someone of at least average awareness like me, than it must not even be a blip on the radar of a far greater number of people right now.
You can't complain about not everyone being as smart as you when they don't have the tools necessary to be as smart as you.
Don't turn your nose up just because you don't want to look eye to eye with someone slightly below you.
I didn't know about crafting when i started in this game, i also made mistakes at the start and wondered why i kept losing ped all the time.
You know what i did? I asked people in game, i found someone who could answer questions about crafting and tried what they knew. Then i took that further and found someone else and tried their suggestions.
It all melded together over time where i found out there are many different ways to craft successfully.

You know what i didn't do? I didn't whine on the forum saying the game needs to change because i can't figure things out.
It's like finding out you suck at call of duty because everyone is more skilled than you and complaining that they should change the game to make it fair so that you don't need to get better.
In the end, you didn't attempt to learn about crafting, you attempted to figure it out yourself. So now is the time you should be asking questions, not complaining.

Players are the ones that do the most damage to this game....especially those that scream the loudest, because they are the ones that have no idea about how to play the game.
I don't hear well known crafters who have had to adapt multiple times, like Auktuma, crying on the forums ... only those that either try crafting for a short time, or have no desire to adapt/change.
People seem to think everything should be handed to them on a silver platter, its the way many games have gone as well.

Perhaps you should change your mindset if you don't want people to 'turn their nose up', ask questions instead. You will find more people are willing to help you.
One of the best things about this game, is that there are always things to learn and lots of things that you don't know.
 

kingofaces

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I understand there were options but given our current economy, I don't see that being a possibility anymore without investing hundreds or thousands in bulk selling. And that's not viable for the majority of the player base, no matter how some people here may view it.
As others have mentioned, it doesn't sound like you're very familiar with the game. It's quite the opposite on good items to craft for new players. If you put too much bankroll into it, you won't get a buyer. The market for those items is largely what self regulates them from not falling into items those with huge bankrolls mass produce or junk items that people just use for skilling or constantly undercut on auction when selling.

Okay my question, why?
Why can't there just be more BP variety from the onset...or more BPs dropping while crafting?
To buy BPs at that quality means having to rely on elite crafters or people who's spent a lot to make it that far and will charge a great deal to offset that.
This really reads as scapegoating those who are more experienced. You don't need an "elite" crafter to get a BP to QR 100. You can even do that yourself. The thing is that it's usually cheaper to buy it from someone than it is to get it to QR 100 yourself (the higher level the item crafted, the slower/more costly it is to increase QR). That's again a bit of an opposite to what you're trying to portray. As I mentioned above, research is a key component of this game, and it looks like that's an area you need to pick up on before coming to the forums to complain.
 

Xavier_Jr

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Do not be a masochist, it is very simple, if you have tried it for 10 years and it does not go well like others, do not cry anymore, play something else, period! it is healthier for your life.
 

vilfiina

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That's why it should be changed to balanced as possible.
And you're still being an asshole.
I'm being an asshole for telling you the simple truth that reading your post makes me think you have no clue about crafting whatsoever?

Every single crafter in this game will tell you the same, but they are crafting instead paying attention to random noob nr 213532 crying on forums. I just have too much free time, so I come here to read that ingorant crap and post a reply.

If you were an account made in July 2020, I would actually help you, but since you been around for 10+ years, there is absolutely nothing anyone in this game can do for you. Seriously, play something else.
 

xxPriestxx

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Really entertaining and well-written post... :) whether you agree or disagree or don't give a shit about the point of it, applause for such a great post :)
 

Timewarpman1

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I didn't know about crafting when i started in this game, i also made mistakes at the start and wondered why i kept losing ped all the time.
You know what i did? I asked people in game, i found someone who could answer questions about crafting and tried what they knew. Then i took that further and found someone else and tried their suggestions.
It all melded together over time where i found out there are many different ways to craft successfully.

You know what i didn't do? I didn't whine on the forum saying the game needs to change because i can't figure things out.
It's like finding out you suck at call of duty because everyone is more skilled than you and complaining that they should change the game to make it fair so that you don't need to get better.
In the end, you didn't attempt to learn about crafting, you attempted to figure it out yourself. So now is the time you should be asking questions, not complaining.

Players are the ones that do the most damage to this game....especially those that scream the loudest, because they are the ones that have no idea about how to play the game.
I don't hear well known crafters who have had to adapt multiple times, like Auktuma, crying on the forums ... only those that either try crafting for a short time, or have no desire to adapt/change.
People seem to think everything should be handed to them on a silver platter, its the way many games have gone as well.

Perhaps you should change your mindset if you don't want people to 'turn their nose up', ask questions instead. You will find more people are willing to help you.
One of the best things about this game, is that there are always things to learn and lots of things that you don't know.
I like how people keep saying I don't know what I am doing...
Instead of thinking maybe the system is heavily restricted in making it available to everyone.

Someone has yet to explain how having a ground floor for people to get into that is easier for smaller budgets or less skilled avatars is a bad thing.

Someone please tell me what's so bad about COMMUNISM :p (Ps. that's a joke)
 

mastermesh

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What is really needed to 'fix' crafting is to give the existing blueprints a use that makes them more useful than some of the newer stuff or stuff that can be looted in hunting, etc. Been saying for a long time one way Mindark could dok that is to do somke major buffy stuff... make it so that you can craft up stuff similar to enhancers but that would give you buffs identical to the type of buffs you could get in the stables for pets, etc. but also re do the pet system at same time to allow all the stable buffs to be available from all stables... and allow buff stacking, and also add in new systems that allow upgrades to old school weapons and crafted items... you can upgrade some other stuff in game already, why not make crafted upgrades a possibility for every crafted item out there... buffy crafted awesomeness. Munchkinism isn't a problem if it's allowed across the board to level the playing field.
 

Darth Revan

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I like how people keep saying I don't know what I am doing...
Instead of thinking maybe the system is heavily restricted in making it available to everyone.

Someone has yet to explain how having a ground floor for people to get into that is easier for smaller budgets or less skilled avatars is a bad thing.
That's because you have shown that you do not understand crafting in the game through what you have written.

The crafting system is actually easier than it used to be to get into. You do not need a huge bankroll to craft technically, MA even made it so you can use Nancubes from the TT to skill up. You do however need a high bankroll if you want to craft decent stuff, like the ArMatrix series or Amps, etc. But there are low cost to click BP's that have MU and sell in small stacks (i'm not going to hold your hand here, just go look at the AH and compare to entropiawiki). Ever wondered while people list small stacks of componenets on the AH? its for those people that only click small amounts on BP's (for whatever reason). I myself even buy some of those componenets when it saves time from gathering and crafting them myself, especially if i just need a few more clicks on an (L) BP i am trying to use up. There is a market for those, and thats where new players should focus their attention. Ignore the huge stacks and don't try to compete with those as you will find those listers can undercut you with another stack they have in storage. You can make small profit with that, over time it will allow you to up your game. Big league crafters don't bother with doing this, they don't have enough auction slots or time to bother wasting on them for the small profit that is made. This could be started with less than 100ped and over time you would increase your bankroll.

Monria also has a daily craft mission that rewards skills in engineering to help reach level 10 in BP comprehension (which helps increase all of your other crafting skills) extremely quickly, you can use any BP you want to reach that and requires 500 succesful crafts. That requires around 25-30 ped cycled using EP1 and with the recent change to giving shrapnel for less than 0.01ped near success, you are more likely to break even on it now (perhaps profit if you get a lucky BP drop). You won't be able to profit enough to make it worthwhile doing forever, but its a great start. It will help you skill up so you can tackle some of those higher level BP's. I would recommend any new crafter to go do this (even over vehicle repair) and it can count towards mentoring and getting the free equipment for completing discipleship. I have even lent out my QR100 BP to avatars so they could complete this, however you can do this with a QR1 BP and see similar results.

But seems like you did not know about any of this, or if you did, you decided that it didn't fit your narrative and excluded the potential areas that new players would find useful.
Its also not a special secret in crafting, however a decent mentor would know these things and guide their disciple correctly. Granted there is no specific tutorial for these, and that might be where things falter.

Now crafting could be improved, there is no doubt about that, but most of the ideas that get spouted on this forum from people are only going to damage this game more, not help it. Unfortunately, it won't be realised until its too late (think EP4).
Could they make crafting cheaper? definitely, they have for hunting so they could tweak it for crafting as well. They don't need to increase the success rate to make it cheaper to play either, they could simply just remove all fails and replace with near success (like they removed 'evade' from hunting). So that means more metal residue (which at least is useful), unless they up the shrapnel return which would then make things worse. I know which way MA will choose and i am sure you will too (hint - its not in our favor).

But hey, what do i know, apparently i only sit on forums all day and never play the game....

You're just in the forum and talk shit here all day long.
 

Hellraizer

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It's an extremely expensive "game" .
I wouldn't have it any other way, it's challenging to say the least.
Making EU affordable for all is not desirable.
Crafting, like most professions not only takes experience but also insight and the ability to adapt.
I'm mainly a hunter , lvl 78
Crafter lvl got to 46 before I chipped it out (long story)
Successful crafting requires the appropriate number of clicks relating to cost per click and success rate, along with average TT return, markup % of sales.
 

yeeck

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Definitely worth to read for everyone.
I give you my respect. You should just get straight to the point.

Expensive? Bankroll? Less than 90%++ return?
Those reason on reason is not important at all.
Because MA did not guarantee you anything. Only players who are influencing players.

Not all players are bad but you will be expecting some.
Again, I see Xavier is here to call player to quit the game. LOL!

You cant said Xavier is bad. If you leave this game and get a better life. You must thank him!
 

Geralt

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EU potato servers couldn't handle covid19 related player influx. When we had 2-3k ppl online at the same time I could literally here servers sizzle and sweat- but that's not real issue.
EU is a niche for heavily addicted gamblers and dont want to seek too much attention, especially from government offcials and anti-gambling societes.

Remember what british lawmakers said - If something feels like a gambling, then it is gambling!

How does "crafting" in EU feels like? Do you want to make EU world famous game so it gets attention of lawmakers around the world?
 

Rock Stone

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I like the crafting!!
Only thing that really bugs me is trying to get my skills and comps for certain BPs.
Then finding out through some cryptic old posts that those comps don't drop anymore.
But hell I guess when I get higher up I can scam some noob on them too eh??
This game is brutal and I love it :)
Try hunting and mining for all the comps you need to make stuff.
That's when you know that the Bot's don't farm....
Pain will make you grow and you'll get smarter.
Hopefully before you go broke.....
If you don't like it don't play..
 

Duhword

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EU potato servers couldn't handle covid19 related player influx. When we had 2-3k ppl online at the same time I could literally here servers sizzle and sweat- but that's not real issue.
EU is a niche for heavily addicted gamblers and dont want to seek too much attention, especially from government offcials and anti-gambling societes.

Remember what british lawmakers said - If something feels like a gambling, then it is gambling!

How does "crafting" in EU feels like? Do you want to make EU world famous game so it gets attention of lawmakers around the world?
If you are on fire and it feels hot outside, is it safe to say maybe you just need to take off your jacket?

EU is not gambling, and its very easy to explain.

Take for example poker. Many would even say that poker isn't technically gambling because its a game of skill. However there is ways for people to get taken advantage of in poker, bluffing, or just terrible luck or whatever. so it does get lumped in with gambling. In poker you always have the same odds to get a pair, 2 pair, a fullhouse, or whatever. No matter how good you are at poker, your odds will always be the exact same and you cannot change this.

In EU the odds are against you and everyone knows this, to argue otherwise would be futile. However unlike in poker, the better your avatar gets, the more invested you get with time and money, the better your odds get. So, its not really gambling. what it is, your just paying a fee to get skills which will let you play in the future for a much lower rate than someone who has no skills. If you can play for a lower rate, obviously that is beneficial because you will be able to find much more rare items.

IMO there is lots of things for new players to do. All they need not do is try to be the first man to step foot on the sun and see how fast they can spend their money.
 

moondog

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To the OP, it looks like you have played about a year longer than me. For the first 7 years I really didn't get involved in either crafting or mining. Once I hit level 70 in hunting, I started mining and crafting, this was a couple of years ago, on simple conductors and springs. I have now started crafting more complex items including vehicles. There is a learning curve to crafting and a knowledge of the markets is required both for the basic items used and the finished items. Like the real world you will not make huge profits from a single sale. The key is to make the items cheaply enough to make a small profit at sale of each crafted item. Constant analysis of the markets , as previously stated in this thread, is essential to be successful at crafting, you also need to be aware of loot changes due to the time of the year.
 

Alukat123

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Like the real world you will not make huge profits from a single sale. The key is to make the items cheaply enough to make a small profit at sale of each crafted item.
this assumption seems to be a mistake many players do.
 

Hego Damask

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It's an extremely expensive "game"
When i first played between 2017 september and january, i ended up withdrawing 50 dollar less compared to my deposits, and for that 50 dollar, i had 10 x AMD (as i remember they were 40 or 50 dollar per 10 stack when they were introduced) and got 100k+ skills, some defensive skill sure worth some ped.

So i would say i didnt loose a single ped, i just not withdraw everything, but if you just watch the fact's, 50 dollar less withdraw, for 5 month's, 10 dollar / month is not what i would call extremely expensive game.
I have wasted more in "free" games weekly on cosmetic's, pay2win stuff and lockboxes.

When i returned at 2019 august, started new avatar (old avatar terminated) and playing with a different playstyle.
Not rushing main skill to level up as fast as i can, instead leveling everything, laser, blp, pistol, mindforce, melee's.
2017- lvl40 and avoidance in 5 months.
2019- lvl40 and avoidance at 1 year.
So reaching the old avatar level's took 2,4x more time, but instead of just breaking even, this time i have more ped compared to how much i deposited.

I dont mind ofc, but goal is not to make profit, just to reach uber levels without loosing ped.
It can be extremely expensive, can be free, or can be profitable since the start based on how you play it.

So the game is not extremely expenisve, the way some plays it is what can be extremely expensive.


Crafting, mostly stayed away from it, but after the 0.01p shrap change, all the smaller try run's were promising, much better compared to what i remember from 2017, so as Darth Revan also recommended, i will go to Monria sooner or later to level up crafting skills a bit, than will do a bigger test with crafting the components and than the end stuff from my own hunting - mining loot.
 
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Evey

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Like the real world you will not make huge profits from a single sale. The key is to make the items cheaply enough to make a small profit at sale of each crafted item.
100% correct but Alukat is playing another game than everyone else.

this assumption seems to be a mistake many players do.
This explains a lot. You seem to be playing the most %profit on MU spent or something like that. Yeah, you probably do great in % but that's why you're always going to be disappointed by the tt return because of very few looting events, just like in hunt and just as described by the developer (again, for hunt, but it's the same)
As mentioned in a previous answer, the most important part for stable returns is the amount of kills or loot events not the amount of turnover. Most new players have very low turnover but hunt mobs like punies and therefore kill a large amount of mobs, like 1000 as you mentioned. This does produce results pretty close to the average for most new players.
You can never compare the profit you make from selling a table and a chair per day + 2 luggage versus a few hundred of items sold by relevant crafters. Ya, you do fine in your perspective which is great if you like that but in terms of ped made at the end of the month, you're probably tens of thousands of peds behind big crafters.


The big problem with crafting today is that it got so tempting to the playerbase that too many do it and do it wrong; people don't know how to sell, everyone wants to cut everyone in auction. People miscalculate the cost to craft and they end up selling at a loss, making it unprofitable to craft some items.

Cutting in auction is a bad habit not just for newbie crafters but also for the hunters; people cutting (and sometimes drastically) others is just cuttign themselves because the next day they will again have for sale the same resource and will end up having to cut further because they participated in a cutting trend. That's why items that are for example 120% usually, when they become available in an event, they get to 103% almost instantly because people don't do the bankroll management thingy...
Eh, it's a complicated game when you are stubborn and you never make yourself open to other ideas and information.... easiest is to blame the dev and call it bug and or casino so you can better sleep at night...



Why are you so angry that someone wants a consistent level playing field?
I've seen what sells on the AH and it's not something that every single avatar can affordably get into.
Why shouldn't there be different strata for players to profit from?

Or is it you just want to shut little people up like me so I don't cut into your profits?
I think tit's stupid to ask for a level playing field in this game when devs and everyone else says that skills DO actually matter. Both ingame skills and RL IQ.
Ingame crafting skills are so expensive to get that you woudln't be able to understand. It's probably hundreds of millions of peds worth of clicking needed to get to 80s or smth. Why should new players have access to that instantly? Why should every fucking single avatar be allowed to get there instantly? That is an edge very few have invested in and if you want to get there you have to work your ass off, be willing to loose a lot in BP QR, in useless stuff crafting so yu can skill up, loose to other newbies that can't ad 1 + 1 to at least get break even when selling in AH, OFC it's not for everybody because most people have your way of thinking - they want to profit from day one on fucking millions of basic filters :)
Try to get it in your head that this is a platform and you have to collect data, connect the dots and find the edge over others, play it PVP, create desirable goods on the market. It's not MAs responsibility to make you a profit, having a lvl1 BP and a cred card does not entitle you to instant profit. You're not cutting into my profits, crafting is no for me...
 

Alukat123

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This explains a lot. You seem to be playing the most %profit on MU spent or something like that. Yeah, you probably do great in % but that's why you're always going to be disappointed by the tt return because of very few looting events, just like in hunt and just as described by the developer (again, for hunt, but it's the same)
Actually, i was disappointed by up 4k loot events resulting in 80% or less TT-return and 10+k loot events even less than 90% TT-return... oh and let's not forget, 390k loot events being about 90% TT-return and it taking another 10k loot events to make the jump from 90% to 95%...
Fortunately that's a thing of the past.

It's just silly to sell items which sell for up to TT+300 for TT+2 or even TT+0... that's a mistake quite a lot of players make. Oh, and on quite many items, droping the MU won't even make it sell faster. But you don't know that, because that's not your market.

You can never compare the profit you make from selling a table and a chair per day + 2 luggage versus a few hundred of items sold by relevant crafters. Ya, you do fine in your perspective which is great if you like that but in terms of ped made at the end of the month, you're probably tens of thousands of peds behind big crafters.
and what do you think is going to happen if all crafters now only craft guns & amps?
here, this is what happens:

Cutting in auction is a bad habit not just for newbie crafters but also for the hunters; people cutting (and sometimes drastically) others is just cuttign themselves because the next day they will again have for sale the same resource and will end up having to cut further because they participated in a cutting trend. That's why items that are for example 120% usually, when they become available in an event, they get to 103% almost instantly because people don't do the bankroll management thingy...
a lot of undercutting, because the market will be oversaturated. Why do you think i did stop crafting guns and amps?

Btw, now that the TT-return issue got adressed and multipliers are finally back, i'm quite happy with my profits again.
 
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yeeck

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So the game is not extremely expensive, the way some plays it is what can be extremely expensive.

It's an expensive game to play (depends on how much real $$$ to spend to reach certain LVL)...
unless you don't play much ($100 a week or $100 a month or $$100 a year to reach LVL 20, any difference?) or you start to become a serious player.
"Only for serious players.", why do you think this phrase exists?
So, any difference between a player and a serious player ? Or you can be both at the same time? Or you can switch around your game style between them?
If any of your answer is yes, then you are a serious player because you think alots and manipulating your mind on how to spend in this game.

SO, any difference between extremely expensive and expensive? nah... don't need answer LOL!
 
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