Suggestion: developments regarding blockchain technology

Lyrisiana

Mature
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Posts
39
Location
Germany
Avatar Name
Lyrisiana Lyz Zianac
That blockchain technology, some tt value or even PED could technically be something else or something more complex instead bound to the $ or not be fixed to it statically with zero (or inflation) expected return p.a., possible to do indeed on a blockchain with no issues in respect to trust and risk involved.

Even if one does not want to 'go big' into tt value as an investment it certainly makes it more attractive to buy fancy stuff and also let it sit around if at least safe like bills then anyway, that could be an enormous sum in my eyes but nothing of relevance to a very rich person at the same time, well yes if safe like bills at least. Whatever it is that could also be visible and of use for others, you could be in a blockchain contract that forces you to let it stay there for a while and would do so more willingly if you can collect most of an interest rate not related to Entropia, the deal better if you choose unversal ammo maybe, something like that.
Your crystals grow on a farm together with that interest or whatever fitting ideas, not necessarily complicated but some 'show off‘ value or some kind of influence in relation to tt value comes to mind. Already of some importance now in the case of clothes for example, you prefer those that need less of an investment unless they look better (or you don‘t care if the difference is a few $).
Whatever fee for the new show would be visible up front in the blockchain contract especially and one could rely on the blockchain code that it happens in that way.

Is a basket of fiat currencies like the Libra idea better than the USD, problem there was Facebook is there for profit primarly but there are other choices afaik like saga.org which is backed by a reserve that emulates the special drawing rights of the international monetary fund. I‘m not an economist or affiliated to Saga but I understand there is a discussion if a 'global currency‘ like a basket of local currencies actually makes sense for private use or how much sense that makes. My own guess is it is of smaller relevance in comparison to the blockchain technology.

But even imagine a 10-20% world stock market index fund addition to that basket of currencies (i have more knowledge about portfolio construction than economics), that would look strange to some people I guess even if still quite stable and has better expected return than Libra or Saga alone. Now your crystals actually grow though in an unregular way and well yes that rare bigger shit that can happen to them. The actual point now beyond the blockchain solution for ownership and trust issues is the USD and its common volatility (and inflation) already, the problem more or less does exist already for many and even the overall -5% to -10% covid-19 'crash‘ in my more daring example that includes some stock is not that much different in magnitude (although more sudden). Of course not everyone would like something like that as the only choice and possible legal issues because this game is not investment advisment.

But whatever one could choose and like it is now already that money will not be completely stable everywhere in the world even if short term stability only is targeted or must be, a somewhat better solution than the promise to get back USD could be possible at some point as I see it. And especially this game could profit from that development.
 

forgo

Elite
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Posts
3,375
Location
US
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Forgo Forgorth Lundain
People should really seriously consider the issues this would bring before trying to suggest such a drastic change to a game and system that already works well for more than 15 years. This is a bad idea, and would only put a bullseye target on the game and its systems to become regulated to ridiculous and unprofitable amounts. Please understand technology at least, and the reactions of governments to technologies like this, before blindly adopting it based on Hype.
 

Lyrisiana

Mature
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Posts
39
Location
Germany
Avatar Name
Lyrisiana Lyz Zianac
Well, what certainly is not hype is the elimination of need of trust in a central institution as mentioned, an issue indeed solved on the technological level, a real risk involved so far of course for example would be be a big software bug, certainly still a possibility at this time, generally a bigger setback is quite common in early technological progress.
 

Svarog

Slayer
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Posts
9,310
People don't realize that in a hypothetical situation where USD quickly loses its value, the state of the economy in some online game would be your least concern. In the best case you would still have internet and electricity. In the worst you would regret that you haven't invested into canned food and ammo.
 

San

Elite
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Posts
2,521
Location
That freaking cold place (in RL)
Society
OldTimers
Avatar Name
Sandal San Tolk
Well, what certainly is not hype is the elimination of need of trust in a central institution ...
Thus spoke the internet. And all the now obsolete institutions, just casually being the most powerful of all in man's history, are flowing over with joy upon receiving the glad tidings, put flowers in their hair and dance off into the countryside, hugging every tree along the way and spreading butterflies and happy pancakes.
 

Lyrisiana

Mature
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Posts
39
Location
Germany
Avatar Name
Lyrisiana Lyz Zianac
Not the internet, it's actually a good side of money historically and in progress further now, the elimantion of the need of trust well yes where possible of course and not trust as a problem.
Lack of trust actually is an issue exactly on the internet with its big distances and anonymity, if I don't even need to trust someone for something to work then it sounds like a good idea to me.

If you look into Saga one step further then you see they try the middle way, blockchain but not without governance, so not like the anarchistic bitcoin. One advisor was Nobel laureate Myron Scholes.

Some people don't go bigger into this game because MA can go bankrupt plain and simple, this does not sound logical to you here honestly? I don't believe that of course.
 
Last edited:

Lyrisiana

Mature
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Posts
39
Location
Germany
Avatar Name
Lyrisiana Lyz Zianac
Btw an example for removal of the need of trust is in auction. A bid is possible with money only, we have to own and it is then tied in auction, we do not raise a hand or whatever signal only and the seller then needs to trust a buyer that could be far away that he/she will pay when the auction ends, enforcing punishment would be tedious at best or does not make sense in the case of a few PED.

Someone coded that automatic 'contract‘ in this game after auctions were invented but before the blockchain and before more general discussion of programmable money so it‘s not decentralised computation and not open source. You can see something of it in game so not having to trust your buyer does make sense but some trust is needed in MA.
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,286
Location
Billy Bar
Society
the Ministry
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
Btw an example for removal of the need of trust is in auction. A bid is possible with money only, we have to own and it is then tied in auction, we do not raise a hand or whatever signal only and the seller then needs to trust a buyer that could be far away that he/she will pay when the auction ends, enforcing punishment would be tedious at best or does not make sense in the case of a few PED.

Someone coded that automatic 'contract‘ in this game after auctions were invented but before the blockchain and before more general discussion of programmable money so it‘s not decentralised computation and not open source. You can see something of it in game so not having to trust your buyer does make sense but some trust is needed in MA.
do a search on the forums for folks that have seen bugs or flaws in the auction... do you really want more bugs and flaws like that going towards where your actual deposits and withdrawals are? Mindark is a small company that has some not-so-great coding history...
 

Lyrisiana

Mature
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Posts
39
Location
Germany
Avatar Name
Lyrisiana Lyz Zianac
i stop writing here now because it's at best not even understood although I will make that search for those bugs ok. one more time: if you need less trust (in MA for example) in the first place because of technological progress, such a situation does not make sense to you really ?
 

NeutrinoX

Old Alpha
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Posts
979
Location
Iunno, there's some grass and some rocks here...
Society
Kaos
Avatar Name
Alexander "Neutrino-X" Darkmoon
As much as I'd love for MindArk to take a serious look at crypto/blockchain technology after their failed IPO a few years back, I cannot trust their ability in being able to work on or implement such a system in a reliable manner, so... :dunno:
 

Lyrisiana

Mature
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Posts
39
Location
Germany
Avatar Name
Lyrisiana Lyz Zianac
They wont code their own blockchain, maybe we can agree on that. And MA wont have to or the whole idea indeed would make little sense in the first place. The people at Tezos paid for a mathematical proof of correctness of their code, that's expensive afaik.

Even programmable money from central banks would make little sense if MA cannot use it for their own contracts. That money could also be possible at some point bc the institutions will react on that development, they already do to some extent. That would be the USD, EUR etc of course, and maybe not decentralised then, just digital.

The high number of coin blockchain projects 'out of thin air' (not Libra or Saga), that's some inflation in the anarchistic way I guess even if some are honest attempts.
 

eyeshark

Old
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Posts
60
Location
Daphne, AL United States
Avatar Name
Crimson Eyeshark Tide
People don't realize that in a hypothetical situation where USD quickly loses its value, the state of the economy in some online game would be your least concern. In the best case you would still have internet and electricity. In the worst you would regret that you haven't invested into canned food and ammo.
Sad that this comment garnered no response as of yet. This is so true. Blockchain at best would make deposits and withdrawals faster. But it comes along with so many other potential pitfalls. I much rather my PED be tied to a stable currency than something that can fluctuate 30% without breaking a sweat.
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,286
Location
Billy Bar
Society
the Ministry
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
Bring back paypal...
 

Kaiser

Stalker
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Posts
2,499
Location
Arkadia
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Kaiser Kaiser Soze
This makes Zero sense. Cryptocurrency are demand based currencies. It would have ZERO value in the real world.
 

San

Elite
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Posts
2,521
Location
That freaking cold place (in RL)
Society
OldTimers
Avatar Name
Sandal San Tolk
This makes Zero sense. Cryptocurrency are demand based currencies. It would have ZERO value in the real world.
To put this more precisely, the exchange value is not zero but incalculable for a business that depends on getting it exchanged in order to pay its bills. This is a showstopper. Everybody who suggests to do this here only ever has their own convenience in mind but doesn't see why it can't work, at least not in the current environment. When you yourself can buy all of life's essentials and pay your utility bills and taxes in cryptos, then this may change. Not before.
 

Johaoninho90

Alpha
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Posts
595
Location
Entrolympic Events
Avatar Name
Jo Johaoninho90 jo
maybe, crypto can be used for transfering PED (Player to Player), but then must be backed on PED or USD example 1 Entropia crypto coin = 1 PED or 0,10 usd... o_O
 

Stefan 008 Bond

Dominant
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Posts
351
Society
Mod Merps
Avatar Name
Stefan 008 Bond
To put this more precisely, the exchange value is not zero but incalculable for a business that depends on getting it exchanged in order to pay its bills. This is a showstopper. Everybody who suggests to do this here only ever has their own convenience in mind but doesn't see why it can't work, at least not in the current environment. When you yourself can buy all of life's essentials and pay your utility bills and taxes in cryptos, then this may change. Not before.
Paypal announcement yesterday....

As I've written before the very first thing they could look into is decentralized exchanges.
This would allow both payor and payee to send and recieve whatever currency/fiat they desire.

I mean for withdrawals and deposits. You would not want verified blockchain transactions on every trade made in game.

For that, MA would need to create their own blockchain, since there are transaction fees using ether/btc networks

But a good start would be allowing participants to deposit and recieve withdrawals in crypto. (Which then get wash traded on decentralised exchange into whatever MA wants to recieve)
 
Last edited:

San

Elite
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Posts
2,521
Location
That freaking cold place (in RL)
Society
OldTimers
Avatar Name
Sandal San Tolk
But a good start would be allowing participants to deposit and recieve withdrawals in crypto. (Which then get wash traded on decentralised exchange into whatever MA wants to recieve)
But why should they do all the work for you if you can do it yourself? Exchange your cryptos and deposit from there. Receive your withdrawal and buy cryptos. What does all this have to do with MA as long as they have no reason to be in there themselves?

The withdrawal delay has a different cause, I don't really know what's going on with that and it's truly confounding, but if these security concerns are what they say they are, it would not be different if you asked your withdrawal to a crypto account instead of your bank. We need to get behind that 50-day timeout and fully understand it.
 

Stefan 008 Bond

Dominant
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Posts
351
Society
Mod Merps
Avatar Name
Stefan 008 Bond
But why should they do all the work for you if you can do it yourself? Exchange your cryptos and deposit from there. Receive your withdrawal and buy cryptos. What does all this have to do with MA as long as they have no reason to be in there themselves?

The withdrawal delay has a different cause, I don't really know what's going on with that and it's truly confounding, but if these security concerns are what they say they are, it would not be different if you asked your withdrawal to a crypto account instead of your bank. We need to get behind that 50-day timeout and fully understand it.
Well for one, its good business practice, otherwise every business in the world would still accept only cash. Its a winning game for business to accept whatever payments are feasible and thats why everywhere, business accept credit cards which tack on fees. Many even still accept checks.

Secondly, no one said its really any extra work, you initiate deposit/withdrawal through exchange instead of bank its that simple.
 

San

Elite
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Posts
2,521
Location
That freaking cold place (in RL)
Society
OldTimers
Avatar Name
Sandal San Tolk
Well for one, its good business practice, otherwise every business in the world would still accept only cash. Its a winning game for business to accept whatever payments are feasible and thats why everywhere, business accept credit cards which tack on fees. Many even still accept checks.

Secondly, no one said its really any extra work, you initiate deposit/withdrawal through exchange instead of bank its that simple.
Not everything which is technically doable is good business practice just because it has some fans out there. Cryptos are still not mainstream, how often does one have to repeat that. We had hundreds of ways even before cryptos, when Neteller and Moneybookers (now Skrill) and many more were a new thing. Some were adopted and dropped again for various troubles or legal obstructions. I'm not against cryptos but most don't see the challenges beyond the mere technicalities. Did you even read the second paragraph in the previous post? For example, why is Skrill not working for us since right after it was added? On the surface it's just ridiculous that there is no solution for months again and no communication about it, but something is going on behind the scenes which we need to know in order to move forward with all this.

Bummer we have only one AMA question this time, let's hope for wiser choices about what to ask than what is out so far.
 

Kaiser

Stalker
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Posts
2,499
Location
Arkadia
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Kaiser Kaiser Soze
To put this more precisely, the exchange value is not zero but incalculable for a business that depends on getting it exchanged in order to pay its bills. This is a showstopper. Everybody who suggests to do this here only ever has their own convenience in mind but doesn't see why it can't work, at least not in the current environment. When you yourself can buy all of life's essentials and pay your utility bills and taxes in cryptos, then this may change. Not before.
I agree, great explanation. That is exactly why having zero demand and therefor zero value becomes a problem. There is nobody for MA to exchange it with for cash.

Thanks for the great explanation.
 

Kaiser

Stalker
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Posts
2,499
Location
Arkadia
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Kaiser Kaiser Soze
Paypal announcement yesterday....

As I've written before the very first thing they could look into is decentralized exchanges.
This would allow both payor and payee to send and recieve whatever currency/fiat they desire.

I mean for withdrawals and deposits. You would not want verified blockchain transactions on every trade made in game.

For that, MA would need to create their own blockchain, since there are transaction fees using ether/btc networks

But a good start would be allowing participants to deposit and recieve withdrawals in crypto. (Which then get wash traded on decentralised exchange into whatever MA wants to recieve)
I see what you are saying but this does not change the fact that ALL crypto is demand based. There would be no way to exchange the crypto for cash in the real world other than from players who are looking to buy it. Without a financial backer who gives a stable exchange rate, there is no market for this. It is basically the same thing as PED itself at this point but without the entity guaranteeing a set cash exchange rate. Let's be honest, no non-player is going to buy this which in turn means the real world liquidity is $0.00.
 

Kaiser

Stalker
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Posts
2,499
Location
Arkadia
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Kaiser Kaiser Soze
Well for one, its good business practice, otherwise every business in the world would still accept only cash. Its a winning game for business to accept whatever payments are feasible and thats why everywhere, business accept credit cards which tack on fees. Many even still accept checks.

Secondly, no one said its really any extra work, you initiate deposit/withdrawal through exchange instead of bank its that simple.

How do you withdrawal via a method that is not redeemable for cash with a set exchange rate with any type of regularity? The only organization that can/will back this crypto is MA. Just because it is crypto does not mean they are going to suddenly stop checking the transaction history of accounts that are trying to make a withdrawal.
 

Stefan 008 Bond

Dominant
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Posts
351
Society
Mod Merps
Avatar Name
Stefan 008 Bond
How do you withdrawal via a method that is not redeemable for cash with a set exchange rate with any type of regularity? The only organization that can/will back this crypto is MA. Just because it is crypto does not mean they are going to suddenly stop checking the transaction history of accounts that are trying to make a withdrawal.
I think your a bit confused, im talking about using a decentralized exchange or now, something like paypal. This would use already acceptable crypto such as BTC, LTC, Ether as well as Fiat options as well as stable coins such as USDT and USDC.

Users send and recieve value in any of the above and you choose what to recieve.
 

Stefan 008 Bond

Dominant
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Posts
351
Society
Mod Merps
Avatar Name
Stefan 008 Bond
Not everything which is technically doable is good business practice just because it has some fans out there. Cryptos are still not mainstream, how often does one have to repeat that. We had hundreds of ways even before cryptos, when Neteller and Moneybookers (now Skrill) and many more were a new thing. Some were adopted and dropped again for various troubles or legal obstructions. I'm not against cryptos but most don't see the challenges beyond the mere technicalities. Did you even read the second paragraph in the previous post? For example, why is Skrill not working for us since right after it was added? On the surface it's just ridiculous that there is no solution for months again and no communication about it, but something is going on behind the scenes which we need to know in order to move forward with all this.

Bummer we have only one AMA question this time, let's hope for wiser choices about what to ask than what is out so far.
An RCE MMORPG isnt mainstream either.
This audience would presumably be a little more financially sophisticated than average.
Why wouldnt you want the good press in the crypto community about your game accepting crypto deposits? Being able to withdraw in crypto?
This isnt just another payment provider its a whole another asset class similar to if you could deposit and withdraw in gold.
 

Lyrisiana

Mature
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Posts
39
Location
Germany
Avatar Name
Lyrisiana Lyz Zianac
Sad that this comment garnered no response as of yet. This is so true. Blockchain at best would make deposits and withdrawals faster. But it comes along with so many other potential pitfalls. I much rather my PED be tied to a stable currency than something that can fluctuate 30% without breaking a sweat.
Investing in canned food, not a contradiction to decentralised computation or investing in volatile assets too, not necessarily crypto of course. Those rare catastrophic events and their relevance are more known now in science and finance including the psychological issues afaik related not only to finance, they tend to remain even after we know about them, we like to completely neglect rare bigger threats generally as human beings and if you invest in a reserve of canned food seriously then you will also be confronted with more discipline and unpleasant thoughts needed after that over decades, similar to serious financial planning or yes not even a different topic.

With disaster control in mind canned food and other survival stuff looks like a good idea but that topic and maintenace and upgrades wont make us happy could be true also for many. Afaik from brain science planning does not mean happiness for us even if we plan for something that is pleasant, we‘re more happy in the 'here and now‘ including mistakes and contradiction and that even comes from prehistoric fight for survival. The thoughtless and somehow happy fight for survival if I got that right from brain science (not from game devs).
 

Aloisius

Prowler
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Posts
1,475
Location
Fort Fury
Society
Natural Born Killers
Avatar Name
Jo Aloisius Smith
Bitcoin is too powerful of a tool to harness. Even paypal won't do "normal" BTC transactions (you can only buy sell and hold them in "your" acccount, as I understand it). MA tried and failed with their deepcoin IPO should not mean the end of blockchain technology research. It seems to me just a matter of time before the light goes on in some devs head how obviously EU IS a blockchain game already. And there is no reason (if they won't upgrade the engine in this game) they shouldn't start an entirely new game universe with the best of EU AND best blockchain technology.

I forgot who said look at DeFi but EXACTLY. I also have cryptokitties and that's why I say this game was MADE for blockchain technology. The thing with MA, though, is their need to control everything. I get that too. Hackers are dangerous, but so are banksters. MA should be driven to exit central banking control. Decentralization is a magical power to enable the breakaway. Unless of course the real purpose of their entire exsitence was just to entrench central banksters power. Possible? Methinks, IMO.

So, MADeFi?

https://www.coindesk.com/what-is-defi
 
Last edited:
Top