Does the system compensate for previous returns?

JohnCapital

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No matter how the system works, all these globals will be much better if they are not part of our TT return, but a bonus that does not affect our TT so much after its appearance.
They even come after loss to fuck us more after... it's crazy.
You suck at math, don't you?
 

Deemer

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You suck at math, don't you?

Well... I have no such claim. All my life I have been raising geese for sale... goose liver has a good markup :p

What would you recommend me to play this game?
To study accounting, branch of higher mathematics and programming? If I knew I needed programming, accounting and higher math... I would definitely study them in time, to play this game as normal man!

For joy, all this is not necessary to see that the advertising trick for the jackpot in 99% of cases is half of my loss... so somehow I'm not very enthusiastic that I won the jackpot... I'm just glad that half of my loss returns.

So yeah, if they make all those globals as real jackpot which don't affect our ped status will be really cool.
 

Sulje

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They ask "how the loot works" you tell them, and they still do same stupid shit and lose peds, gets back to forum and complain, gets literally same answers, still does the same shit and run in circles, unreal.
 

mastermesh

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Crabby

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They ask "how the loot works" you tell them, and they still do same stupid shit and lose peds, gets back to forum and complain, gets literally same answers, still does the same shit and run in circles, unreal.

Its a wild goose chase with some people.
 

JohnCapital

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You suck at math, don't you?

Well... I have no such claim. All my life I have been raising geese for sale... goose liver has a good markup :p
...
So yeah, if they make all those globals as real jackpot which don't affect our ped status will be really cool.
If our returns where good pre-globals, then those would would push everyone over 100% returns. guaranteeing profits for all players
Mindark would go broke and shut down in ~13 days.
What would you recommend me to play this game?

Doesn't matter, since your bright idea just killed the game.
 

Erastothenes

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My "in-my-head" calculator indicates that I will loot me a mod merc any day now. Calculator runs on beer.

For realism, ty JohnCapital for being sane here :)
 

raulpon

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I have predicted my crafting HoFs and amount for a long time now and I never do quantity or under 100QR prints.

Yes, you get balanced out in a run and "run" depends how many click/kills/drops you do vs cost of click/drop/kill, so anyone whining 12ped mobs don't provide good returns on 1000 kills, are doing it wrong.

EDIT: For any statistics/conclusions, I think 10 000 loot/craft/drop events are min. I still don't like the huge variety in returns meanwhile, esp with expensive crafting where you can click 500 000% blueprint 20 times and get 2 success :(
 

Evey

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[Moderated: removed rule violation]


@ OP - Yes, long term you are with the returns where you should be as per your efficiency/looter (for hunting) or where the system is set to be, % return wise for crafting and mining.
Yes, there is a track of your previous TT in, otherwise active players would have much more uber loots, Henry would have 20 ATHs etc.
 
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Jhereg

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It would be a bit of overkill to get PhD in all those areas just to get the basics of the game, but it would certainly do you good!
If you struggle that hard with the basics of EU (and boy you do struggle a lot!) you should maybe try something radical like... ask more questions, learn from those who understand the system instead of emitting so many theories of your own... and such ridiculous suggestions every day...
If the basics of this game are so complicated for you, don't try going for " accounting, branch of higher mathematics and programming" might prove too hard....


@ OP - Yes, long term you are with the returns where you should be as per your efficiency/looter (for hunting) or where the system is set to be, % return wise for crafting and mining.
Yes, there is a track of your previous TT in, otherwise active players would have much more uber loots, Henry would have 20 ATHs etc.
I have a PhD but no one listens to me anyways :p
 

TheAlchemist

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:popcorn: very interesting replies. Not really useful to what I wanted to know, but at least there is a discussion.

If anyone has some some useful information (even if they are wacky theories) they can PM me.
 

WoenK

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My "in-my-head" calculator indicates that I will loot me a mod merc any day now. Calculator runs on beer.

For realism, ty JohnCapital for being sane here :)
now that you mention it....Beer consumption has risen somehow since I started playing...first 3-4 years it was quite low, found out quite fast that after 3 litres it got really hard to understand anything what Entropedia say... now that I rarely look there, stopped putting every single PEC into a spreadsheet and do not even look on the "be economic" side...I drink more Beer and really find it way more enjoyable.
Tried other substances, but Beer is the best. After 5 litres I can almost still shot straight.... could not do that after half a litre Ouzo or rum...hell could not even find my mouse after that anymore.
Now....if there was something to recycle those Beer farts into energy..I think I could run my computer on it.....must drink another beer and think about it :D
 

ermik

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By way of discussion, and without any intention to offence any opinion/persons.

For these of you, who believe MA does not tracking you to the single fucking bullet you shot - Visit Rocktropia. On each landing they show you achievements, not only to the single laser or blp weapon use, but even how many kilometers you have driven.

So the only part i agree on commented text is: There is just a mechanism that prevents anyone from profiting.
If there was a system actively preventing you from profiting in tt then the amp mining bug many years ago just wouldnt have been possible…. However the law of large numbers does the same balancing without MA doing anything. This game is about gaining ped from other players, preferably with the help of markup in loot.
 

TheAlchemist

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If there was a system actively preventing you from profiting in tt then the amp mining bug many years ago just wouldnt have been possible…. However the law of large numbers does the same balancing without MA doing anything. This game is about gaining ped from other players, preferably with the help of markup in loot.

This is probably the single best example in this whole thread.
 

Deepa2

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If there was a system actively preventing you from profiting in tt then the amp mining bug many years ago just wouldnt have been possible…. However the law of large numbers does the same balancing without MA doing anything. This game is about gaining ped from other players, preferably with the help of markup in loot.
What bug was it?
 

ermik

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What bug was it?

Details cna be found but some hints are here, the poland guy HP .....

 
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Deemer

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[Moderated: Removed rule violation]


Not really useful to what I wanted to know, but at least there is a discussion.

Well... if you follow the advice of prominent mathematicians, you will be wondering for a long time where the problem is in the game. And the reason is very simple. Every single tip in this forum is how to play at maximum loss, ie 90%. Your loss goes to another player's pocket, so if it is maximum it will be better for the one who gives you this advice.

The dynamics of the game is of the utmost importance for the end result. Even a new level 1 player, if he uses an Uber weapon like Jester-1 instead of Barbarella, but hunts for a mob that is in good standing, will have a better score than another who is level 50 who uses Barbarella on an inappropriate mob.

All that is valid is the present moment. If today this mob you are hunting doesn't give you good prey, don't look for your loss of TT from it... find a better one "now" and come back to this tomorrow... or in two days.

So if today and tomorrow you achieve a result of 98-99%, then the same result will be in half a year.

Do not put yourself in the shoes of a 15-year-old uber, which has a stable return, and its loss is in most cases covered by shrapnel and animal shits.

That is, a large daily loss (maybe) can lead to a big blow. The difference is that the big daily loss is guaranteed and the big hit falls to one in ten thousand once a month.

If now your choice of mob you chose is wrong, it will not change even after half a year, so the question you asked, are MA will give me the next ATH if I make a bigger loss. But the real answer is, the same chance have a player with very low TT loss.
 
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Art Jennifer

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I think so yes. You burn one amp and get nothing then first drop of a new one you get a small hof that covers near the exact TT of that amp.

happen to me so many times. Has to be tracked in some sense.

in my opinion to track the returns is the only way to stop this being gambling. I drop 1ped, I have no idea what I’ll get back, but the systems does.
 

RickEngland

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Well the game is not officially gambling and there's no personal loot pool. So to meet that criteria, the system must measure and track some personal input/output data, be that damage done v cost of otherwise.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter how it's 'supposed' to function. More do you trust how that algorithm does function and if it meets your return expectations.

If we've got some wannabe coder/mathematician shaking their head, saying; "I don't get it, the game was supposed to pay this player X amount ped and didnt", that isn't too helpful is it hahaha.
Rick
 

Deemer

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Well the game is not officially gambling and there's no personal loot pool. So to meet that criteria, the system must measure and track some personal input/output data, be that damage done v cost of otherwise.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter how it's 'supposed' to function. More do you trust how that algorithm does function and if it meets your return expectations.

If we've got some wannabe coder/mathematician shaking their head, saying; "I don't get it, the game was supposed to pay this player X amount ped and didnt", that isn't too helpful is it hahaha.
Rick

I'm not sure what you mean by mathematicians. I like this new Philosophical Mathematics, it should be a major discipline in every university. Certainly the world is colorful and there are all kinds of people. Those who preach that the products they sell are profitable and those who believe in that. But the results show that the mob will eat exactly as much ped as it is set.

There are certainly personal statistics, it is usually called a database in most programs, but it seems to me that here personal statistics are considered a personal loss.

The only proven return is from the tests that were done with the towers. They return ~ 70% ... Hunting can also be 70% .. the same goes for craft and mining. So the system certainly returns those 70%. Everything else is speculation, from the experience gained in the game (the loot pool - the peds of others).
 

forgo

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I think it likely works by keeping a running tab of modifiers instead of actual peds. Every kill having .95 .93 .97 1.05 of cost ect and then averaging those over the total kills to get a running modifier that will correct after a certain average is reached. Similar to how skills are distributed, as long as the averaging modifier keeps an accurate picture of overall losses and gains should be effective. These kinds of systems can be very simple and yet provide a seemingly impossible range of possibility while maintaining a limit for the creators at the same time.

Most of the biggest losses are due to the player not paying attention to their costs and the tax paid.
The system itself if remove the player error is a 100% return of peds spent minus tax. The player economy is the offset to the tax, and all markup is part of the player economy.

Using a sub prime weapon, or other gear which provide less than optimal returns are examples of player errors, not mindark errors. Which is the perfect place for mindark to be, all the blame is on us. I do think they have been making a point over the last few years to improve those options for people as a whole.

IF everyone had 100% return minus tax mindark actually makes out much better with volume of tax in the end. Overall compared to years ago cycles in general have improved quite a bit on stability, and I hope they can open up avenues for more people at a lower cost entry point still. Its an amazing system if leveraged right can be win/win.
 
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Deemer

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I think it likely works by keeping a running tab of modifiers instead of actual peds. Every kill having .95 .93 .97 1.05 of cost ect and then averaging those over the total kills to get a running modifier that will correct after a certain average is reached. Similar to how skills are distributed, as long as the averaging modifier keeps an accurate picture of overall losses and gains should be effective. These kinds of systems can be very simple and yet provide a seemingly impossible range of possibility while maintaining a limit for the creators at the same time.

Most of the biggest losses are due to the player not paying attention to their costs and the tax paid.
The system itself if remove the player error is a 100% return of peds spent minus tax. The player economy is the offset to the tax, and all markup is part of the player economy.

Using a sub prime weapon, or other gear which provide less than optimal returns are examples of player errors, not mindark errors. Which is the perfect place for mindark to be, all the blame is on us. I do think they have been making a point over the last few years to improve those options for people as a whole.

IF everyone had 100% return minus tax mindark actually makes out much better with volume of tax in the end. Overall compared to years ago cycles in general have improved quite a bit on stability, and I hope they can open up avenues for more people at a lower cost entry point still. Its an amazing system if leveraged right can be win/win.

Forgo, the only error is that of MindArk, because the product was developed by them. This game is advertised as a free RCE, which is intended for mass use, but not like specialized software for a hundred people. Therefore, if many people do not understand the amazing mechanism in the game, it is the fault of the developer, not the individual player.

If you know a country where a worker works for -8%... of the money he has invested... to work in this position... for another person.... well, I don't know such a country and they probably won't easy.

In normal countries, people usually pay part of their salary for fees and different things, which means they do not work at a loss. Yet countries prosper and thrive... even low-skilled workers receive a positive income.

These comments, which encourage the loss of half a year to wait for the big blow that will fix our loss, are completely illogical. Especially in a non-functioning trade environment in which the Markup of the loot like profitable is again promoted, which in no way corresponds to the normal understandings at the moment, due to the lack of its need in the economy ... this is the basis of this author to do this topic, and all those similar like this in the forum.

It is not a shame for MindArk to consult with practicing economists, to build an environment in which a player can thrive on their investment/work. Instead of encouraging a gambling once a month of one between ten thousand who is given as an example... and again the error is in MindArk which promoted the game like free RCE MMO instead of a casino that is embedded in a game.
 

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I'm more interested in how his spread of multipliers is after that ATH.

The system I describe doesn't say someone can't have a huge multiplier once. It does however describe that a person cannot have 2 huge multipliers in a row without losing a significant amount in between.

@miseGXr is the only one that can answer if his returns are lower or his multi's are further in between.
It would be interesting to know what he notices in the coming year.

My soc mate recently got 2 ATH's in a row (within a few weeks). 2x 100k+ hofs on EP4.
He hadn't even lost his first ATH before he already got his second.

So for sure you can have 2 big multipliers in a row without losing all in between.

Although many don't want to believe this, LUCK still is a very important factor in Entropia.
But as goes for "odds", the more you cycle, the more the odds even out.
 
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