FYI: ECO of Tier One Medical Tool Economy Enhancer

[Coop_]

I've crafted hundreds of the fuckers. 1 ... 1 ... partial ... fail ... partial ... 1 ... 1 ... etc.

One + residue is what you get back. Either enmatter or metal res.

Oh, and in over 2 thousand clicks, not 1 blueprint dropped for me. But then it's no secret that I've never been able to loot any good prints.

This is truly ridiculous! Maybe other crafters could comment on other enhancer types crafted, but this should not stand. We don't need more residue in the game, we want more enhancers!

 

[Spinage]

Yes, I have sent a support case, I advise everybody reading to do the same. We all know they don't pay attention unless many people say the same.

 

[WoenK]

I made a amazingly long run of 3 clicks and had two successes
Only level in enhancer crafting, my lowest crafting profession.

 

[Immortal]

This is truly ridiculous! Maybe other crafters could comment on other enhancer types crafted, but this should not stand. We don't need more residue in the game, we want more enhancers!

why is it ridiculous though? it's greed that makes them ridiculously expensive (blazars with 0TT selling 0.5ped and above), not the limited supply, nor the high demand

that doesn't mean I agree with the way the system is. I don't agree with the way armor works either...

 

[aridash]

why is it ridiculous though? it's greed that makes them ridiculously expensive (blazars with 0TT selling 0.5ped and above), not the limited supply, nor the high demand

i think the supply make a significant impact though. they dont exactly drop regularly, maybe every 3rd or 4th no looter? and you have to be hunting a no looting mob to begin, so not going to attract the hard campers. even if blazers were 1pec each, the crafting costs dont seem to add up, 2ped mats+MU for a .6ped item +res.

tears just get better

 

[Spinage]

why is it ridiculous though? it's greed that makes them ridiculously expensive (blazars with 0TT selling 0.5ped and above), not the limited supply, nor the high demand

that doesn't mean I agree with the way the system is. I don't agree with the way armor works either...

I honestly think it's a bug it is so ridiculous...

Think about it, some enhancers require pvp only enmatter, which is extreme MU input, which means you have to have extreme MU output... this would be reduced, like in crafting, if the TT of the crafted product could be higher... however with enhancers, it is fixed. It is the only type of crafting with a fixed product TT.

Blazars are also very low supply in relation to demand.. otherwise they'd already be cheap.. they sell extremely fast at high prices. They won't get to 1pec anytime soon because to get them in good ammounts you have to hunt no looting mobs... like chirpy, and still you only get like 8-10 per 100ped spent. That is on a bloody chirpy. No1 is going to actively look for them if they are too cheap, meaning people will just get them randomly when hunting normal mobs, meaning higher demand than supply.

This makes it a very high price just to craft ONE static 60pec enhancer. If, like other crafting professions, you could get more than one, you could easily lower the selling price making them useable. Instead you just get crappy residue and a useless overpriced enhancer.

 

[billairboy]

The crafting with only one item + residue at a succes could be because of the enhancer component bought at the TT is more of than 50 % of the tt value of the components use to craft the enhancers.

 

[Immortal]

i think the supply make a significant impact though. they dont exactly drop regularly, maybe every 3rd or 4th no looter? and you have to be hunting a no looting mob to begin, so not going to attract the hard campers. even if blazers were 1pec each, the crafting costs dont seem to add up, 2ped mats+MU for a .6ped item +res.

tears just get better

yes.

the same reason crafters make ore amps. it sure as hell ain't because turning materials with 140% markup into materials with no markup sounds like an awesome money-making strategy.

 

[Ace Flyster]

We will see enhancers coming down in price now, as blazar fragrments are now dropping in multiples

Still going to be hard to make tool enhancer teir one economical though

If you struggle with the 2600 you will definitely struggle with others

Rgds

Ace

 

[Immortal]

We will see enhancers coming down in price now, as blazar fragrments are now dropping in multiples

Still going to be hard to make tool enhancer teir one economical though

If you struggle with the 2600 you will definitely struggle with others

Rgds

Ace

well if it makes my ur-125 5% more economical, it's worth me getting one if one enhancer costs 2.84 ped or less. if ur-125 drops to say 125%, I can still buy if they are 2.5ped.



if blazars prices drops to 0.05ped per blazar, this should be quite doable, right?

edit: yuk, no looks like 7ped/enhancer to break even if blazars are 0.05ped each : /

 

[kygon]

i upgraded a 2380 fap to t1 slaped on 10 eco enhancers couldnt be arsed with checking decay change but it changed the durability from Average to Good , cost too much to upgrade in the future when prices for 'bits' drop upgrading things like this is is really the only thing I will be doing, well unless this BS 'replicator' item that negates the need for 2nd item (since my UL450 is some what scarce i will never find a 2nd, as far as i know the the possible 2nd was scammed and i have no idea who owns the other(s)?

but my little heal uber fap project cost me far too much but the result is prity cool, when i get T2 and start getting bigger heals, this little fap will suddenly become very very usfull for me for quick little heals to compliment my ur200 and h450

 

[billairboy]

In my opinion i feel that MA has made the enhancer system to un-eco to make any sence.

 

[Immortal]

In my opinion i feel that MA has made the enhancer system to un-eco to make any sence.

It's not uneco on (L), and it's certainly not uneco when people stop paying more than 1pec per blazar.

 

[billairboy]

It's not uneco on (L), and it's certainly not uneco when people stop paying more than 1pec per blazar.

well the ores/enmatters have high MU so it will be hard to make the cheap enough. The enhancers fast get un-eco on UL wepoans. The benefit i can see is on L items with very high MU.

 

[Xen]

W.t.f.

So they have changed crafting completely for enhancers? Treating them like they are decayable objects, which they aren't. That's ridiculous

I actually think you should send a support, because that seems so much like an accident.

Not a surprise. They are not components. The fact that they are stackable means nothing.

 

[Spinage]

Not a surprise. They are not components. The fact that they are stackable means nothing.

It is surprising. They are the only crafted product that doesn't vary in TT without residue.

All other products, components or not, varies.. e.g. you can get 0.5-0.29 ped of basic filters, you can get 8.37-78ped of OA101.

With enhancers you just get 0.6. Meaning crafters have to sell them at a very high price no matter what.

TO me, that is suprising.

 

[Xen]

It is surprising. They are the only crafted product that doesn't vary in TT without residue.

All other products, components or not, varies.. e.g. you can get 0.5-0.29 ped of basic filters, you can get 8.37-78ped of OA101.

With enhancers you just get 0.6. Meaning crafters have to sell them at a very high price no matter what.

TO me, that is suprising.

I was mainly arguing against your arbitrary grouping of enhancers with components, since they are stackable. That seemed to be your argument.

It's possible MA made a mistake and you are supposed to be able to get more than one. MA has made mistakes before.

It's also possible the current way it works is what they intended.

Neither would surprise me.

 

[Talania]

You mean, the ek-2500 deluxe, that decays 2ped per use? well in 6 uses it pays for itself, but eco is relative

That fap also maxes at 37.5. win!

I have it and it does 1.8 ped of decay each use.

 

[Immortal]

well the ores/enmatters have high MU so it will be hard to make the cheap enough. The enhancers fast get un-eco on UL wepoans. The benefit i can see is on L items with very high MU.

the ores don't have such a high markup such that they affect the price of enhancers. Could you provide an example of where the markup of an ore or enmatter is a significant cost factor in enhancer crafting?

 

[Spinage]

the ores don't have such a high markup such that they affect the price of enhancers. Could you provide an example of where the markup of an ore or enmatter is a significant cost factor in enhancer crafting?

Nearly all of them...

e.g. Armor defence Enhancer I uses 60pec of fireroot, that's 31.5% of the TT price with ~500% (i dunno actual markup at the moment).. making it 157.5% of the TT per click without adding anything else... even if blazars were 1 pec and th cost of enhancer components (surface hardener etc) were TT, the cost per click would be 4.05...215% of the TT, making it cost 9.64ped (assuming the enhancers have the same COS as other crafting) at 100qr to make one 40 pec enhancer.

If the crafter still got 90% TT returns, the rest being residue, he will probably get 3.67~ped of 109% residue per every one enhancer they made. So the minimum price you can expect this 40pec enhancer for (unless they allow more than 1 to be crafted at once) is ~5.94ped each before auction fees etc. That's 1485%. Please someone point out if I went wrong somewhere, because this is just stupid.

 

[Immortal]

Nearly all of them...

uhhh sure. Provide evidence. Don't bother clogging this thread with walls of text and calculations, just state comparative numbers, with the predefined 90-1/3 rule ( i am sure dedicated crafters will agree it's a fair approximation, even a generous one). you picked the most extreme case, but you didn't counter with a print that uses a low markup ore/enmatter. don't make excuses about auction fees either, that is irrelevant to the cost to craft.

edit: my numbers for that print are 242% vs 2000% (f/root=500%)

as it's the only print that even uses this material, do you honestly believe fire root @ 500% is a realistic mark up? It's not like it's a rare enmatter.

 

[Spinage]

uhhh sure. Provide evidence. Don't bother clogging this thread walls of text and calculations, just state comparative numbers, with the predefined 90-1/3 rule ( i am sure dedicated crafters will agree it's a fair approximation, even a generous one). you picked the most extreme case, but you didn't counter with a print that uses a low markup ore/enmatter. don't make excuses about auction fees either, that is irrelevant to the cost to craft.

No need to get offended, I just chose the first one on the list on bobthebuilder.

But ok, I will just run down the a quick list here of TT cost per click vs actual cost even if all components are TT and blazar are 1pec using ore/enmat markups from bobthebuilder which are cheaper than in-game coz of buyouts. I will redo armor I too, as I rounded a lot in those calculations.

Armor defence tier I (40pec)

TT per click: 1.9
Actual: 4.44
% click: 233.68%
Estimate minimum enhancer price after all things considered: 6.9 (1725%)

Mining Excavator speed I (20pec)

TT per click: 1.8
Actual: 3.43
% click: 190.56%
Estimate min: 4.51 (2254.76%)

Weapon accuracy I (40pec)

TT per click: 1.9
Actual: 5.65
% click: 297.37%
Estimate: 9.78 (2445.24%)

Weapon Range I (40pec)

TT per click: 1.9
Actual: 5.67
% click: 298.42%
Estimate: 9.83 (2457.14%)


Do the rest yourself. I have yet to find one that isn't heavily influenced by the ore/enmatter price. Usually, the fact that you can get more per click than one balances this in crafting.

These weren't handpicked, they are the first 4 from bobthebuilder. I am sure the rest will follow suit. Either there is a mistake, or these will never work, or the enmatter/ore prices (some of which are pvp only) have to completely crash along with blazars. Don't forget, I am marking all components at TT price anyway.

I don't want it to be like this, so don't get mad with me please. Also, the maths I posted earlier is for people who want to work it out themselves; some people are genuinly interested believe it or not, and its a public forum so it's hardly 'clogging it up'.

Edit: Blueprints that use Iolite will cost a lot less, but still quite high due to that stupid rule of only getting 1 per sucess. Medical tool eco enhancer is one of these so I will add that one here:

Medical Eco Enhancer I (60pec)

TT per click: 2
Actual: 2.81
% click: 140.5%
Estimated Min.: 3 (500.79%)

 

[Windzor]

We will see enhancers coming down in price now, as blazar fragrments are now dropping in multiples

Still going to be hard to make tool enhancer teir one economical though

If you struggle with the 2600 you will definitely struggle with others

Rgds

Ace

yes, I was hunting baby exas and daikibas and was getting from 6-9 blazars a drop, when they dropped.

 

[Immortal]

Either there is a mistake, or these will never work, or the enmatter/ore prices (some of which are pvp only) have to completely crash along with blazars. Don't forget, I am marking all components at TT price anyway.

The mistake is that crafters are willing to pay insane markups for something there is no demand for, and then expect the consumer to pay for it. It's also the same reason people were spending 200ped to tier up an opalo. There is no demand for those either.

 

[Spinage]

The mistake is that crafters are willing to pay insane markups for something there is no demand for, and then expect the consumer to pay for it. It's also the same reason people were spending 200ped to tier up an opalo. There is no demand for those either.

Maybe. I disagree with MA then in thinking that they can make PVP only resources and expect them to go for TT.

Also, let me just do one more example to show just how drastic the effect of only looting one enhancer per sucess is. Let's assume everything, blazards + enmats too, are at TT:

Mining excavator I (20pec)
TT per click: 1.8
Click %: 100%
Estimated "min." price for an enhancer: 0.63 (314.29%)

I think this is a mistake since as that is at 100qr 42% COS.

In most cases, if everything is TT, you can sell for TT and only lose 10% (90% returns) like basic filters, or simple I conductors etc.).. selling for even 120% could breakeven .

With this system, you have to sell for 314.29% a mining excavator I enhancer even if it is TT for all the ingrediants.

 

[billairboy]

Yes, the mu of the ores/enmatters must down to near nothing to make it possible to craft the enhancers to a mu they makes them eco for most of the use. Okey, hard to tell right now for sure because we don't have enough data yet, but all indications point on this. Maybe on some expansive L stuff they could be of use.

The thing we need to know now is how the breaking point works. Is the avarage number of uses before it breaks the same on all healing tools or is in in propotion to the decay? Can i at avarage use the enchancer 1000 times on a fap-5 and 1000 times on a EMT kit Ek-2600? It thats the case the enhancer would save 0,01*0,05%*1000=0,5 ped on the fap5 and 0,09*0,05%*1000=4,50 ped on the Ek-2600. On the Fap-5 it would be pointless with an enhancers even with MU 100 %, the enhancer have tt value 0,60 ped. On the EK-2600 i could pay up to 4 ped for the enhancer and still get some benefit. But my guess is that they are connected to the decay speed.

 

[Immortal]

Yes, the mu of the ores/enmatters must down to near nothing to make it possible to craft the enhancers to a mu they makes them eco for most of the use. Okey, hard to tell right now for sure because we don't have enough data yet, but all indications point on this. Maybe on some expansive L stuff they could be of use.

The thing we need to know now is how the breaking point works. Is the avarage number of uses before it breaks the same on all healing tools or is in in propotion to the decay? Can i at avarage use the enchancer 1000 times on a fap-5 and 1000 times on a EMT kit Ek-2600? It thats the case the enhancer would save 0,01*0,05%*1000=0,5 ped on the fap5 and 0,09*0,05%*1000=4,50 ped on the Ek-2600. On the Fap-5 it would be pointless with an enhancers even with MU 100 %, the enhancer have tt value 0,60 ped. On the EK-2600 i could pay up to 4 ped for the enhancer and still get some benefit. But my guess is that they are connected to the decay speed.

While this is true, for people like me who want to use it on (L) items makes them all the more powerful. atm i only see much of a use for this medical enhancer on my faps for continued hunting, and I certainly look forward to putting some depth enhancers on my of-105 to make it more powerful than a vrex3k, not to mention the plethora of (L) finders.

 

[billairboy]

While this is true, for people like me who want to use it on (L) items makes them all the more powerful. atm i only see much of a use for this medical enhancer on my faps for continued hunting, and I certainly look forward to putting some depth enhancers on my of-105 to make it more powerful than a vrex3k, not to mention the plethora of (L) finders.

Yes, is a see it right know, the best use is on L items that have some markup or enhancer that do stuff that is not possible to achieve otherwise. I can guess the critical hit enhancers coulde be nice to have in pvp.