Empty SKill Implants (post VU 8.7)

[Konve]

There seem to be a lot of talking going on about these items. I think I have a pretty clear view of the matter and though I'd make this thread to put things straight. If you find I am wrong, please don't curse me because this VU is just as new to me as it is to you.

Now, here is what I posted over at the EP forum:

I think the new ESI system is very creative and makes a lot of sense, but as someone pointed out it will now cost real peds per "chip" transaction in lost TT value of the ESI.

Before, you could just put 1800 skill on a 80 ped chip but now 1800 skill might remove hundreds of peds in the tt value.

You used to be able to put 2000 levels onto a chip, but as aprox 10% was lost you really only put 1800 onto it but still lost 2000.

I will not cost PED to transfer skills to the chip. If you full half of a chip that had 1k ped TT from the start you will have one new ESI with 500 ped tt and one chip worth 500ped with the skill you extracted (btw, 500ped worth of skills is a lot)..

The old chips used to be 1ped = full. Now, 10ped of a new chip = 1 old ESI. So the fact that the old ESIs were replaced with ESI at 12,5ped was a clever way of Mindarks to make people gain a little something and forget to whine about all the other things. (If you didn't get it the replaced ESI can hold 125% the amount of an old ESI.)

No, if the old price for an ESI was 85ped:
85/10=850%
(NOTE: Mindark most likly made ESI (L) items as they would be traded as % wares and not TT+ wares - the ESI on auction now show up as % as well.)

The new price for one of the old ESI should be:
12,5*8,5=106,25PED.

I know some people have looted higher TT ESIs.

So, if you loot one where the TT is 300ped the price of it should be:
300*8,5=2550 PED 8)

And, if you manage a full TT ESI in an uber loot:
1225*8,5=10412,5PED

Note that one full TT ESI today (1225ped tt) was 122,5 ESIs yesterday (1ped*10=10ped ESI today).
And 122,5*85(if the price was 85 each yesterday)=10412,5PED

This change of course favor those who are selling out a lot of skills.

But remember, the tool decay to insert and extract a chip is now reduced 122,5 times. From 490 PED total to just 4 PED.

I don't know about the markup, but the esi decays now as u put skills in it. So you loose on inserter decay, esi decay + markup. So i think it will cost you now 12.5 or 9.9 (0.99*10) in decay on the esi to fill 1 chip. So if we would have old price, markup should be around 800% (8*10 = 80, 8*12.5=100).
Now lets see if the same amount total tt drops... When it stays the same, i think the markup drops, because no esi's are waisted now (partial chips).

Hmm, would be nice to loot a 1250 ped tt esi, worth 10k!!

Any questions?

 

[CareBear]

Yes... like I said at the other forum... is it verified that a 12.50 tt ESI will turn into a 12.50 tt chip when filled fully? I mean... does it lose any tt value at all?

 

[Konve]

Yes... like I said at the other forum... is it verified that a 12.50 tt ESI will turn into a 12.50 tt chip when filled fully? I mean... does it lose any tt value at all?

Yes it does. Old full ESI was 1ped, so *10 that's 10ped today.

Say you have an ESI at 50ped tt.

You have exactly 2k rifle levels.

You chuck that into your ESI.

The result will be an ESI worth 40 PED tt and an Rifle skill implant worth 10 PED.

If the value was 15ped on the ESI before the extraction you will have a Rifle chip worth 10ped and 5ped added to your ped card balance (MA said any ESI under 10ped = scrapped and returned as PEDs, right?).

And no, I haven't exactly tested this myself but it makes perfect sense.

(This reply was delayed thanks to "
There seems to have been a slight problem with the database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience." )

 

[CareBear]

Yes it does. Old full ESI was 1ped, so *10 that's 10ped today.

Say you have an ESI at 50ped tt.

You have exactly 2k rifle levels.

You chuck that into your ESI.

The result will be an ESI worth 40 PED tt and an Rifle skill implant worth 10 PED.

If the value was 15ped on the ESI before the extraction you will have a Rifle chip worth 10ped and 5ped added to your ped card balance (MA said any ESI under 10ped = scrapped and returned as PEDs, right?).

And no, I haven't exactly tested this myself but it makes perfect sense.

(This reply was delayed thanks to "
There seems to have been a slight problem with the database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience." )

Well.. I understand how it works in theory... I want someone who has actually extracted skills to VERIFY that the ESI doesn't lose tt value when fully extracted.

 

[chielsen]

Only problem is that the esi turns into peds at 10 ped if i understand marco correct. So you should pay (tt value of esi - 10) * ~800% + 10..

 

[CareBear]

Only problem is that the esi turns into peds at 10 ped if i understand marco correct. So you should pay (tt value of esi - 10) * ~800% + 10..

Thats only if there is 10 ped left on the chip... if its a 50 ped chip and you fill it with 50 ped tt worth of skills, then that doesn't apply.

 

[chielsen]

Yep forgot to mention that..

 

[Konve]

Exactly. I wonder if it gives some sort of "Warning, your chip will be annihillated if you proceed"-warning.

 

[levithanikos]

In the old way a Full ESI had a 0.99 TT cost ..

After the VU 8.7 i tried to check how this works and i had few problems...

When the skillls were under 2k , i could see the "# skills-1" on the ESI ,that i was , about to extract the skills in( Example 900 allertness would show 899 skills on the ESI to fill ) ....

When i tried my LWT ( 5.2k) i've seen a 147 ,on my ESI...

They change so many things and explain nothing really

And who's will be able to fill a full TT ESI ???

Now who can explain this .... cause i don't understand how the hell this works!...

 

[Jihad]

But remember, the tool decay to insert and extract a chip is now reduced 122,5 times. From 490 PED total to just 4 PED.

Am i wrong here when i say:
After the end user has chipped up his skills with a full 1250 TT chip MA gets the 1250 ped, right?
That should mean that MA first gives a "fake" hof and then takes it back and the end user loses the tt-value..

Is there anything that i have missed? Spank me if I'm wrong.

 

[Perseverance]

And who's will be able to fill a full TT ESI ???

If I got this clear then lets say a person inserts 2k rifle into a 1250 ped ESI, then the ESI will split into a 1240 ped ESI and a 10 ped rifle chip. (and then that 1240 ped ESI can be filled with another skill over and over again and just loose more and more tt value?)

 

[levithanikos]

@ Perseverance

Ok , but anyone has a formula like "x-y*z = Skills" ???

I don't like the new VU ESI system

 

[CareBear]

edited out per request

 

[levithanikos]

well.... i just pressed "Ctrl-V" , my bad

plz edit your Post so we don't expand the forum page!

 

[F1r3]

u dont understand it yet so u dont like it? if these chips drop much more then buying skills will get less expensive (no more esi to pay for if they really drop much more, i mean look at how much esi''s we could fill with only yesterday's drops)

 

[MG Mighty]

Before this VU a ESI would be filled if it reached 0,99 PED (~0,999xxx)

Former ESI from last VU (0.00 TT) were turned into ESI of 12,50 PED value.

If you use one of those 12,50 PED TT value ESI and try to fill it completly you'll be able to take more skills than it was previously possible with it in the last VU.

Is this logic ?
Yes.

Because if you try to fill one ESI of 12,50 PED now you'll get a
chip with 11,24 PED TT value.

The chip loose ~10% of the TT value.

(I've tested myself.)

So it will of course be able to carry more skills than a 9,99 PED chip that was created last VU.

So a Full TT ESI in this VU with (1250,00 PED TT) can carry what was hold previously in 112 ESI (theorical values of course, since only MA knows for sure how those multiple ESI would work).

 

[CareBear]

u dont understand it yet so u dont like it? if these chips drop much more then buying skills will get less expensive (no more esi to pay for if they really drop much more, i mean look at how much esi''s we could fill with only yesterday's drops)

Agreed... this also makes it feasable to chip out partial chips that wouldn't have been worth it before... example...

1400 LWT

Buy 20 PED ESI, Make a 5 PED LWT Chip and 15 PED ESI.... Sell 15 PED ESI

 

[CareBear]

Before this VU a ESI would be filled if it reached 0,99 PED (~0,999xxx)

Former ESI from last VU (0.00 TT) were turned into ESI of 12,50 PED value.

If you use one of those 12,50 PED TT value ESI and try to fill it completly you'll be able to take more skills than it was previously possible with it in the last VU.

Is this logic ?
Yes.

Because if you try to fill one ESI of 12,50 PED now you'll get a
chip with 11,24 PED TT value.

The chip loose ~10% of the TT value.

(I've tested myself.)

So it will of course be able to carry more skills than a 9,99 PED chip that was created last VU.

So a Full TT ESI in this VU with (1250,00 PED TT) can carry what was hold previously in 112 ESI (theorical values of course, since only MA knows for sure how those multiple ESI would work).

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you... this is the informatio that I was looking for

Wow... absolutly amazing that the # you quoted for a full 1250 chip is 112 times old esi's and the # Stryker quoted when he tested the 1250 ESI was 10,600 levels can go on the chip... and..

if you look at my # of chips esitmations...
http://entropiatools.com/numchips.php

those #'s fall in place perfectly

 

[MG Mighty]

Any questions?

You didn't test that information did you

 

[F1r3]

Agreed... this also makes it feasable to chip out partial chips that wouldn't have been worth it before... example...

1400 LWT

Buy 20 PED ESI, Make a 5 PED LWT Chip and 15 PED ESI.... Sell 15 PED ESI

i was more thinking of someone selling for instance lwt, it used to be esi (lets say 90peds) + value of the skills put in (lets say 20 peds)
-> you would have to pay 110peds while the skills are only worth 20peds because you had to use an esi, now if these esi's drop much more then you can buy the equivalent of 5 chips for the same price of last VU (AND most important: the person chipping out doesnt lose any value of his skills! only the esi price drops + even less decay on inserter)

now levithanikos, why would you want to go back to the old system? :| just a matter of adjusting thats all

 

[chielsen]

i was more thinking of someone selling for instance lwt, it used to be esi (lets say 90peds) + value of the skills put in (lets say 20 peds)
-> you would have to pay 110peds while the skills are only worth 20peds because you had to use an esi, now if these esi's drop much more then you can buy the equivalent of 5 chips for the same price of last VU (AND most important: the person chipping out doesnt lose any value of his skills! only the esi price drops + even less decay on inserter)

now levithanikos, why would you want to go back to the old system? :| just a matter of adjusting thats all

That's not true. First, if the same amount of esi (total tt of esi / 10) drops nothing really changes. You will only save some decay and maybe you can chip asy 2200 lwt now (which used to fill up only 1 chip and left u with a few hundred) so there is a bit more offer now.
But the prices of skills were based on what buyers wanted to pay for 1 full chip. Prices of lwt were 140 orso because people were willing to pay that for 1 chip. If it's becoming cheaper to fill the chips now, people are still willing to pay 140, BUT if now more people sell their skills because its cheaper, then the price can go down. So yes, if more esis drop i think some skills will be cheaper, but not 5 times as you say...

 

[Konve]

In the old way a Full ESI had a 0.99 TT cost ..

After the VU 8.7 i tried to check how this works and i had few problems...

When the skillls were under 2k , i could see the "# skills-1" on the ESI ,that i was , about to extract the skills in( Example 900 allertness would show 899 skills on the ESI to fill ) ....

When i tried my LWT ( 5.2k) i've seen a 147 ,on my ESI...

They change so many things and explain nothing really

And who's will be able to fill a full TT ESI ???

Now who can explain this .... cause i don't understand how the hell this works!...

You can't have "0" in a skill and never could. I take it you never tried to chip out a skill before?

Am i wrong here when i say:
After the end user has chipped up his skills with a full 1250 TT chip MA gets the 1250 ped, right?
That should mean that MA first gives a "fake" hof and then takes it back and the end user loses the tt-value..

Is there anything that i have missed? Spank me if I'm wrong.

I think you are correct. However frankly it's impossible to know where the 1250 PED goes. I would guess to MA as it looks a lot like "decay" - but support would never tell you so who knows.

If I got this clear then lets say a person inserts 2k rifle into a 1250 ped ESI, then the ESI will split into a 1240 ped ESI and a 10 ped rifle chip. (and then that 1240 ped ESI can be filled with another skill over and over again and just loose more and more tt value?)

With modification, otherwise it's true (it's what I said but look at the next quote please).

Before this VU a ESI would be filled if it reached 0,99 PED (~0,999xxx)

Former ESI from last VU (0.00 TT) were turned into ESI of 12,50 PED value.

If you use one of those 12,50 PED TT value ESI and try to fill it completly you'll be able to take more skills than it was previously possible with it in the last VU.

Is this logic ?
Yes.

Because if you try to fill one ESI of 12,50 PED now you'll get a
chip with 11,24 PED TT value.

The chip loose ~10% of the TT value.

(I've tested myself.)

So it will of course be able to carry more skills than a 9,99 PED chip that was created last VU.

So a Full TT ESI in this VU with (1250,00 PED TT) can carry what was hold previously in 112 ESI (theorical values of course, since only MA knows for sure how those multiple ESI would work).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Edit: My only question to you GM Mighty: If I had exactly 2000 levels of Rifle skill, what TT would the resulting Rifle skill chip be? (The info might be right before my eyes, but I'm a bit tired here. )

 

[Hellfire]

Edit: My only question to you GM Mighty: If I had exactly 2000 levels of Rifle skill, what TT would the resulting Rifle skill chip be? (The info might be right before my eyes, but I'm a bit tired here. )

Thats what im trying to work out, the relationship between skill implant value and skill level

Check my thread

An old full chip (9.99 ped) actually holds 1882 levels

2000 is closer to 12 ped ill work out the exact value soon

 

[Konve]

Thats what im trying to work out, the relationship between skill implant value and skill level

Check my thread

An old full chip (9.99 ped) actually holds 1882 levels

2000 is closer to 12 ped ill work out the exact value soon

How about 11,24 (stolen from GM Mighty)?

 

[Hellfire]

The stuff is on my other computer so ill have to confirm this but from memory 11.24 is 1977 levels

 

[F1r3]

That's not true. First, if the same amount of esi (total tt of esi / 10) drops nothing really changes. You will only save some decay and maybe you can chip asy 2200 lwt now (which used to fill up only 1 chip and left u with a few hundred) so there is a bit more offer now.
But the prices of skills were based on what buyers wanted to pay for 1 full chip. Prices of lwt were 140 orso because people were willing to pay that for 1 chip. If it's becoming cheaper to fill the chips now, people are still willing to pay 140, BUT if now more people sell their skills because its cheaper, then the price can go down. So yes, if more esis drop i think some skills will be cheaper, but not 5 times as you say...

i'm just giving an extreme example