Question: ESI usage, extracting skills for trade.

Spacejanitor

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Some time ago, I advertized on forum, that I want to sell all my skills. I made it clear that the buyer should provide his own ESIs. I gave him Many month to collect the ESIs for the deed. So this week, we got in touch, and twice did the extraction process. Yet he made me pay for the ESIs, by calculating the price paid on auct, for the ESIs. And I feel terribly under paid and scammed. He would get the ESI of auct, each time, and saying what he paid. No way for me to verify if he is truthfull. Clearly he never used all those past month to collect the ESIs, which points to dishonesty on his part. I am inclined to cease all activities with this guy and I still have most of my skills to sell.

My question is. Is it correct of him, to deduct the ESI price, from the overall price of skills bought to underpay me? He claims that people selling skills on auct, the ESI-Price is on the seller, not the buyer. And thats his argument for screwing me over. Indeed one ESI of aproximatelly 120 PED TT value, can extract about 12 - 14 different skill implants of various skills. Yet the full markup price of 1200 PEDs, for the batch of extracted skills of a particular ESI, is deducted from the buyers price. Is this correct?
 
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Little hard to understand for me sorry. Example: So if skill was worth 2000%, he bought ESI for 1200% and paid you 800% for the skill? (ignoring the 10% loss for the moment)
If this is the case then he is correct. Auction markups are ESI inclusive.
 

Killahbee

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Correct, yes.

The price paid for the ESI is deducted from the total price if he paid for the ESI. If you pay for ESI he pays full price.

Lets say you chip out skill that is 2000% and ESI is 1400%.
He buys ESI for 1400% and gives to you. You extract the skills and sell the filled chip to him for 600%.

Your profit would be 600% either way, if you buy the ESI or if he does.
 
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Deemer

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Correct, yes.

The price paid for the ESI is deducted from the total price if he paid for the ESI. If you pay for ESI he pays full price.

Lets say you chip out skill that is 2000% and ESI is 1400%.
He buys ESI for 1400% and gives to you. You extract the skills and sell the filled chip to him for 600%.

Your profit would be 600% either way, if you buy the ESI or if he does.
Agree, but.. And who will pay these 10% of the loss of the final implant from ESI and from Skill ..
20% are lost, which leads to the suspicion of fraud.

10 tt ESI becomes 9 ped skill on which 2000% is 180 ped. And the ESI markup of 1400% on an empty implant is 140ped.
This difference of 20 ped is 10% + 10%, which leaves this suspicion of fraud, and in many cases is used insidiously by those who understand it.

PPRPS.
If we also take into account the fact that we are focusing on the Auction markup where the seller of an ESI of 10 peds has paid 8 peds of fees, then the seller of a skill of 2000% has also paid a fee of 10 peds, to cover all these losses... no I'm sure what the final price of all this should be if it is exchanged Hand to Hand without the auction fees.
 
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mastermesh

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just don't chip out. You'll want your skills back in a few months anyways. ;)
 

Spacejanitor

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Thanks for the feedback friends. I cant shake my gut-feelings about the whole matter. Besides Ive done deals with him before. Expensive items and in bulk. I was woefully underpaid and many have warned me about the person. At the end of the day, its my own stupidity to even make use of the man. Personal responsibility and all that.
 
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I don’t know, I don’t think you need to be so hard on yourself, or the buyer. The deal likely wasn’t as bad as you think.
I think I know who you are talking about, and I would be safe to assume this person is a reseller.
Since this person is providing a service to you and giving up his time and money, it would be fair to expect that he will wish to take at least some margin from the deal. There’s the first cut.
Then, because skills implants are mostly markup, they have quite high listing fees on auction, this needs to be considered.
Here is the second cut.
Then, because skill retail prices are heavily dependent on ESI price, and the ESI markups have been tanking hard over the last few months, there is a high chance that skill chips will further devalue. There needs to be a buffer added to protect the traders investment.
Here’s another cut.
Adding to this last point, the new mayhem revamp has not been announced yet, we have no idea what this will do for mayhem categories, as such, I think future ESI values are going to be impossible to predict, at least until we get that announcement. The buyer is taking a huge risk here.

I think, the fact that you got paid anything substantial above the ESI price for your hunting skills in a bulk liquidation deal is honestly pretty good from your end I think.
I would like to think that your looter skills fetched a good price though.
 

rvbarton

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there is a simple solution here... If you don't feel you are being paid enough then raise your price. No one is making you do these trades. If your gut tells you the other person is under paying, then either don't trade with that person any longer or raise your price to what you fell comfortable with.
 

Spacejanitor

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there is a simple solution here... If you don't feel you are being paid enough then raise your price. No one is making you do these trades. If your gut tells you the other person is under paying, then either don't trade with that person any longer or raise your price to what you fell comfortable with.
Agree. You are right. Personal responsibility.
 

Spacejanitor

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I don’t know, I don’t think you need to be so hard on yourself, or the buyer. The deal likely wasn’t as bad as you think.
I think I know who you are talking about, and I would be safe to assume this person is a reseller.
Since this person is providing a service to you and giving up his time and money, it would be fair to expect that he will wish to take at least some margin from the deal. There’s the first cut.
Then, because skills implants are mostly markup, they have quite high listing fees on auction, this needs to be considered.
Here is the second cut.
Then, because skill retail prices are heavily dependent on ESI price, and the ESI markups have been tanking hard over the last few months, there is a high chance that skill chips will further devalue. There needs to be a buffer added to protect the traders investment.
Here’s another cut.
Adding to this last point, the new mayhem revamp has not been announced yet, we have no idea what this will do for mayhem categories, as such, I think future ESI values are going to be impossible to predict, at least until we get that announcement. The buyer is taking a huge risk here.

I think, the fact that you got paid anything substantial above the ESI price for your hunting skills in a bulk liquidation deal is honestly pretty good from your end I think.
I would like to think that your looter skills fetched a good price though.
Noted. Thanks. Yes, I think this person waited on the devalue aspect, to actualy start buying from me now, after over a year nothing. I get it from his point of view. But I am the loser and fool. Now even more so.
 

mastermesh

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Noted. Thanks. Yes, I think this person waited on the devalue aspect, to actualy start buying from me now, after over a year nothing. I get it from his point of view. But I am the loser and fool. Now even more so.
time to buy some real world stocks with the funds you received... :)
 

Deemer

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Noted. Thanks. Yes, I think this person waited on the devalue aspect, to actualy start buying from me now, after over a year nothing. I get it from his point of view. But I am the loser and fool. Now even more so.

I have invited two of my friends over the years to play this game. After a few months, they simply left, mostly because of this trade, which seems to be made to work for this type of fraud. We have losses from actions, we have losses from fees or from highly moral intermediaries like this. You are not the only one who feels like a fool, therefore there are more intermediaries in the game than activity.

As you can see in the post above, we need to be aware of the risk that the broker takes and his profits, not our profits and our time... and the coverage of our losses that prompted us to sell these skills. The only thing missing in the above post was the story for MindArk's profit, which is mentioned when someone is looking for a profit for their own time and money.
 

Widowmaker04

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Best and easier thing you can do if you wanna sell your skills is buying big ESIs or try to find a seller for a bulk amount of ESIs on the forum, chip out, sell on in-game auction and just avoid resellers. It's slower but is easier and you can actually check every time what skills are actually worth selling.

Best advice tho is not to sell your skills if you're not 200% sure than you won't come back. I did sell quite a lot of skills and left the game, than after 4 years I came back and my looter skills still suck :D
 
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