FYI: Excessive Whining & Negativity

Status
Not open for further replies.

711

Site Admin
Admin
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Posts
5,283
There has been an unfortunate trend over the past few months of a small minority of members engaging in overly excessive whining, complaining, rudeness, and overall negativity.

In particular, several members appear to visit PCF for the sole purpose of disparaging Entropia Universe and MindArk, and to sow discontent among the playerbase. These same (small minority of) disruptive members focus most of their forum activity on belittling and insulting any other members that show the slightest enthusiasm for Entropia Universe, usually in the form of off-topic thread trolling, nasty reputation messages, etc.

This thread shall serve as fair warning to those consistently disruptive members: such immature activity will not be tolerated, and will very quickly result in sanctions against your forum account in the form of: reduced posting privileges, temporary bans, and in extreme cases where repeated warnings are ignored, permanent bans.

All of us can get frustrated or disappointed with Entropia at times, especially when we may not agree with the decisions of the developers. However, the proper way to communicate that dissatisfaction is by providing constructive criticism in the proper manner (submitting support cases, posting your feedback in the Suggestions/Wishlist and Bug Reports forums, etc.).

Incessant and childish whining/flaming/trolling all over the forum is NOT the appropriate way to express your dissatisfaction, and will begin being moderated much more stringently by the PCF staff moving forward.

One of the best things about Entropia Universe has always been its wonderful playerbase and forum community. As admin of PCF, it is my duty to ensure that a small minority of immature and disgruntled members do not damage or destroy that community for the rest of us.

Remember that the PCF moderators are volunteers, and work very hard to keep the forum running smoothly (often a very thankless job). Members can help them in their effort to keep PCF civil, informative and vibrant by reporting posts that are disruptive, or that may be in violation of the Forum Rules.

Thanks for your cooperation, and thanks for making PCF the wonderful Entropia Universe community it has been for so long.

:cool:
 

HybOj

Prowler
Joined
May 21, 2007
Posts
1,134
Location
Edge of Universe
Society
I guess Im kicked for inactivity
Avatar Name
Eman Gimme Jakubisko
After moving the main forum form Entropia Forum to PCF, I was unable to login so I just stopped visiting. I also deleted EU and had one year off. When I check this forum nowadays, when Im back for some months already, I can see the trend of increased whining is going on...

Well, but this all comes from something, it wasnt here before yet now it is. You cant stop it with some regulations and whatever, I guess its just the more players feel upset about the game. before it was few, now its so much ppl you can hardly read a forum if you dont want to go thru "excessive whining" as you call it.

If I was proud of our community as a whole before some years, now it isnt the case. There are good people around, but the change is evident. You know, some big names dissapeared, people who loved this game the most, were so disguised with it, that they left. This shows something is rotten.

I see this trend going on for years, and its MAs fault. If the VUs were ONLY what is written in the release notes, it wont be like this. BUT EVERY VU has its official and secret parts. Secret is just basicaly nerfs and ripoffs, and it was almost in every VU I have witnessed.

When you write down all those changes in "secret" part of VUs, you will get a hell of a long list full of BS!!!! Like they think we idiots and we will not manage it...

nah, I dont want to get into this again, I just wanted to point out, that this is what MA was askin for for a long time.
 

Ace Flyster

Elite
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Posts
4,967
Location
England, London
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Dave Ace Flyster
After moving the main forum form Entropia Forum to PCF, I was unable to login so I just stopped visiting. I also deleted EU and had one year off. When I check this forum nowadays, when Im back for some months already, I can see the trend of increased whining is going on...

Well, but this all comes from something, it wasnt here before yet now it is. You cant stop it with some regulations and whatever, I guess its just the more players feel upset about the game. before it was few, now its so much ppl you can hardly read a forum if you dont want to go thru "excessive whining" as you call it.

If I was proud of our community as a whole before some years, now it isnt the case. There are good people around, but the change is evident. You know, some big names dissapeared, people who loved this game the most, were so disguised with it, that they left. This shows something is rotten.

I see this trend going on for years, and its MAs fault. If the VUs were ONLY what is written in the release notes, it wont be like this. BUT EVERY VU has its official and secret parts. Secret is just basicaly nerfs and ripoffs, and it was almost in every VU I have witnessed.

When you write down all those changes in "secret" part of VUs, you will get a hell of a long list full of BS!!!! Like they think we idiots and we will not manage it...

nah, I dont want to get into this again, I just wanted to point out, that this is what MA was askin for for a long time.
That's not what 711 is getting at

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i would explain why, but then i would just be repeating what 711 said, i have not been a victim, but i understand and the minority that come here to only complain and troll isnt fun to read

EDIT2: and i wouldnt have a moderators job if i was paid for it! You guys are to be commended :)
 
Last edited:

M Rufen Power

Marauder
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Posts
5,726
Location
UK - London
Society
How To Survive
Avatar Name
Mark Rufen Power
Thank you 711 for the caution. As an eye witness, the seriousness of the matter I believe started sometime last year after the migration event or after the atrox queen event. After those events the amount of bitterness on this forum has skyrocketed ten fold. I can also eye witness that my own levels of bitterness about the game has increased even more so with the removal of ores from mobs. Though I do not spew comments like the others, my dissatisfaction is apparent. If the core issues are not dealt with no amount of moderation will sensor the community, if negativity is how they wish to communicate when all other means are ignored. Complete shut down of the forum is then an alternative if your caution is not taken seriously. PS thank you for enforcing the law where it matters.

~Mark~
 

Sub-Zero

Elite
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Posts
3,084
Location
Sweden
Society
Guess Who
Avatar Name
Sub-Zero The Killer
Hmm i think u will have to ban half of the forum userbase in the coming months. It's going to feel quite empty. Especially if MA keeps doing stuff like removing ores from certain mobs without notice, and not even give an explanation to the community.
 

Sircus

Stalker
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Posts
1,899
Location
PE/EU/FPC/AP
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
James Sircus Wolf
If I go over the top, please let me know.

the proper way to communicate that dissatisfaction is by providing constructive criticism in the proper manner (submitting support cases, posting your feedback in the Suggestions/Wishlist and Bug Reports forums, etc.).
Its not communication unless its 2 people. Its called monologue when the addressed party dont listen or answer regardless of how constructive it is.

That said, not a bad post.
 

M Rufen Power

Marauder
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Posts
5,726
Location
UK - London
Society
How To Survive
Avatar Name
Mark Rufen Power
It's not communication unless its 2 people. It's called monologue when the addressed party dont listen or answer regardless of how constructive it is.
Monologue, Dialogue, Prologue, any others? :)
 

HybOj

Prowler
Joined
May 21, 2007
Posts
1,134
Location
Edge of Universe
Society
I guess Im kicked for inactivity
Avatar Name
Eman Gimme Jakubisko
That's not what 711 is getting at

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i would explain why, but then i would just be repeating what 711 said, i have not been a victim, but i understand and the minority that come here to only complain and troll isnt fun to read

EDIT2: and i wouldnt have a moderators job if i was paid for it! You guys are to be commended :)
I was just guessing, from where this "excessive whining" comes from and I constructively offered my opinion :laugh:

Or you think this excessive whining has nothing to do with people being satisfied with the service? Or that those whiners 711 is talking about are not "standard whiners" (rofl) but some new kind of "excessive whiners", the new kind?

If thats the case, permaban em, I just want the good old days of "standard whining" back! :lolup:

Seriously, main point of MAs thought direction of last 5 years, is to get more money from playerbase while offering nothing back for it. Yes, every company should maximize their profit, but there are many ways to get there. The one, chosen by MA, is a big reason of this "excessive whining" going on.
 

Corey 'Greyfox'

Stalker
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Posts
1,841
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
Avatar Name
Corey Greyfox Grifydd
EU does tend to attract some people with entitlement issues. Pretty bad when even a Mod snaps and gets banned over the excesive bitching and half backed "logic"
 

Uvas

Prowler
Joined
May 10, 2008
Posts
1,047
Society
Toxic Templar of Fallen Knights
Maybe they should simply open a sub-catagory for whining. ;)

Then when someone starts a whining thread, you can shuttle the thread there.
 

Magyar_Republic

Self-requested Deactivation
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Posts
2,564
Location
Aberdeen, WA
Society
Whiskey Confederacy
Avatar Name
Edward Magyar Republic
Maybe they should simply open a sub-catagory for whining. ;)

Then when someone starts a whining thread, you can shuttle the thread there.
Soon to be the most popular section of the forum.

The best part will be the folks whining about their whining post being in the whining thread, because its not whining, its criticism!
 

SODERD

Marauder
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Posts
6,113
Location
Göötebårg änna
Avatar Name
soderd soder soderstrom
I got a better idea...

If MA read the wish lists and makes a few polls, then they implement some shit that the majority actually want and then they stay away from nerfs.

after this i can guarante that there wont be as much whining

Maybe its even worth it to take a step back on some old nerfs...

One do not have to be a rocket sientist to know that you are doing something wrong if u have to regulate how much your customers whine about your preformance.

I will whine when i feel its needed. If i get banned or regulated here for speaking my mind it will be the end of my entropia life and also my depos.

gl with the rules
 

Magyar_Republic

Self-requested Deactivation
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Posts
2,564
Location
Aberdeen, WA
Society
Whiskey Confederacy
Avatar Name
Edward Magyar Republic
One do not have to be a rocket sientist to know that you are doing something wrong if u have to regulate how much your customers whine about your preformance.
Your suggestion is good. However this particular point... ehh... most, if not all MMORPG's aggressively moderate their boards and remove posts like this. They have a full time community manager employed who's job responsibilities include ensuring that the board is moderated to such a degree that it remains a generally positive atmosphere. I know this for a fact, as one of my business ventures involves talking to MMORPG developers about their product and how they do business with their clients.

I've actually been in shock a number of times over how much is allowed on the official game portal here. It's really mind boggling. The only other company to put up with this level of nonsense is Aventurine Studios. They justify it by saying its a full PvP game and therefore the politics must exist. But even then they dont take kindly to excessive bashing of the product and will shut down threads and ban users if they cross a line.
 

SODERD

Marauder
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Posts
6,113
Location
Göötebårg änna
Avatar Name
soderd soder soderstrom
Your suggestion is good. However this particular point... ehh... most, if not all MMORPG's aggressively moderate their boards and remove posts like this. They have a full time community manager employed who's job responsibilities include ensuring that the board is moderated to such a degree that it remains a generally positive atmosphere. I know this for a fact, as one of my business ventures involves talking to MMORPG developers about their product and how they do business with their clients.

I've actually been in shock a number of times over how much is allowed on the official game portal here. It's really mind boggling. The only other company to put up with this level of nonsense is Aventurine Studios. They justify it by saying its a full PvP game and therefore the politics must exist. But even then they dont take kindly to excessive bashing of the product and will shut down threads and ban users if they cross a line.
there are also no other game that can easily cost you 5-100k usd a year.

But i see your point. And im sure its good for buissnes in the short term... but in the long run?
 

Magyar_Republic

Self-requested Deactivation
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Posts
2,564
Location
Aberdeen, WA
Society
Whiskey Confederacy
Avatar Name
Edward Magyar Republic
But i see your point. And im sure its good for buissnes in the short term... but in the long run?
In the long run its better for a business to encourage public criticism, but not open full scale public complaining. That's the real issue.

This is the community portal. This is a place for community members to interact, both new and old, about the game. It's meant to be a friendly and productive place. Not an everything goes type of arena where people come to blow off steam. A business is not well served by that type of behavior at all, and over the long term damages it in many ways.


  1. New players find the forum discouraging.
  2. New players who find the forum discouraging have trouble asking for assistance.
  3. Without assistance, new players may feel lost and unsupported.
  4. New players quit, and dont bring their friends in.
  5. New players may in fact spread negative reviews of the product.
  6. Old players get bored/frustrated and leave.
  7. Nobody replaces them.
  8. Established players start noticing economic troubles from a declining playerbase.
  9. They get upset and leave.
  10. Product dies.

Really, if you think about it, game forums do not exist for established players. They have friends inside the game, guilds, etc. They dont need this particular forum. For anything.

These forums exist for new players as a source of information, and a way to encourage those new players to make social ties and keep playing. The environment must be maintained with that in mind. If an old player cannot respect that, and chooses to become abusive to either other players or the development staff they need to go, if for no other reason than to preserve a welcoming environment for new player interaction.

Players who want to complain should be offered support channels and feedback channels to do so within the product, managed by MindArk. They can then actually gather statistics on customer satisfaction which they cant do on a forum. Statistics to include things like category of complaint, level of playtime before and after complaint, amount of complaints issued, resolution status, etc. In this way every complaint can become a data point that is useful for the company to analyze.

Using a forum for complaints isnt just stupid from a player alienation perspective. It's stupid from a 'I am complaining because I want to be helpful' perspective. It's not helpful in any way. Complaining on forums (especially independently run forums like this one) is complete bullshit.
 
Last edited:

Cron

Alpha
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Posts
510
Location
West Dakota
Society
C.L.
Sometimes you need to step back from your computer and just take a stroll to your patio during wet weather to wash away the negativity.

:poke:


(Back in a bit. My doc needs to remove my tongue from protruding through my cheek. ;))
 

StarGlider

Prowler
Joined
May 1, 2008
Posts
1,237
Location
UK
Society
Entropia Directory
Avatar Name
Suzy
Got to agree on the whole whinning posts the last year or so.

I've made a whine now and then about my loot, threatened to quit, etc, but always come back.

I miss the forum from 3 or so years ago, always an interesting read, laughs etc, now 90% is moaning.
For those, new, just go back a few hundred pages in general chat, to about 2009 ish, you'll see there was plenty of good posts to read. I spent more time reading them, than posting, back then.

Reckon the forum bosses should make a new section called Moan & Whinge here, so the rest of us can ignore most the crap thats said there, and read the other stuff :)
 

Jimmy B

Indioni Jones
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Posts
12,256
Location
UK
Society
Skillin' Villains
Avatar Name
Oni
Especially if MA keeps doing stuff like removing ores from certain mobs without notice, and not even give an explanation to the community.
Well, EU is dynamic ;)

Expressing your opinion about a change you don't like (or even just asking for an explanation of the motivation behind it) is not really what 711 is talking about. It's inevitable that people who enjoy EU will still have concerns to express; that's fine, provided it's done in a mature manner. The issue is a certain group of posters who appear not to enjoy EU at all, and are expressing themselves very loudly. It's putting off people who enjoy EU from posting or even visiting the forum, and at the end of the day they are the people this forum is intended for.
 

SpikeBlack

Elite
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Posts
4,987
Location
U.K.
Society
Entropia Directory
Avatar Name
Spike Spike Black
I miss the forum from 3 or so years ago
I think there's many who also miss the EU of 3 or so years ago.

As much as there is new or returning opportunities in EU it's nearly always come at additional cost, many just accepted it and carried on but if you back a wounded animal into a corner they'll soon start biting and I think that's whats currently happening players getting to the stage where they've just had enough. The seesaw ride in the loot as each dip gets longer and highs get shorter reflects the mood of the forum.

If you're happy with your loot then everything is great with EU, if you're not then you grumble possibly take a break at the same time and if you're really not happy then you post on the forum.

As players risk more and more, some willing to risk their own homes and futures on the CLD's for instance, it's natural that some will start shouting when changes that are supposed to be for the greater good that affect them in a bad way - mission rewards, Argo with their iron loot reduction and the ore redistribution.

We've experienced it in the past with the equiping fee (I certainly lost the plot on the forum with that one and why do still have if it was an gamebyro engine issue), skill gain adjustments and the tt condition reflecting the look of clothing raising the costs for tailors.

Then the sudden rise in the fees for the New Deer Mall when it came back although a few expressed their belief it was whining I think the thread about that eventually lead to total removal of the fees on apartments and shops on Calypso and then Universe wide simply because they couldn't find an argument against the points that were raised.
 
Last edited:

Danoclese

Elite
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Posts
3,601
Location
The Great White North
Society
The Disturbed Ones
Avatar Name
Dano Ghana Rondo
[video=youtube;gfzLyPqko8w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=gfzLyPqko8w[/video]

Sorry, but it seems that, sometimes, this is the only recourse :D
 

Danoclese

Elite
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Posts
3,601
Location
The Great White North
Society
The Disturbed Ones
Avatar Name
Dano Ghana Rondo
...and, other times, it feels like this happens...a LOT:

[video=youtube;RDjCqjzbvJY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RDjCqjzbvJY[/video]
 

Farmer Smurf

Stalker
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Posts
1,551
Avatar Name
Mungo Baobob
So we are not allowed to express ourselves about our game? Unless we do it in a happy way, with a big shit eating grin?.....Wow and they call me a carebear.

Why cant we all just be positive? because there is TOO much to be negative about.

Remove the ability to complain about things we hope to change, and I fear it will just be the last straw for to many people. Because complaining (or rather the hope that it will bring a change) is something people hold on to. Remove hope that things can change, and why would people that are even slightly unhappy stay?,

One of the big things about EU is its "dynamic" meaning things change, but if we are mot allowed to speak about things we dislike, and what we want to change, we have little hope it will change for the better.

I personally will never deposit again, (as long as space travel is in a PVP lootable area), I will instead focus on withdraws again.

I will continue to voice my frustration with a arguably "forced" pvp environment. I complain out of hopes things will change, but I am practical enough to realize they probably wont, and I need to instead focus on getting my money back, + and looking for a better place to spend my time.
 
Last edited:

Karmic

Stalker
Joined
May 21, 2007
Posts
1,847
Society
Agents of Entropy
Avatar Name
Karmic Karmic Nature
So we are not allowed to express ourselves about our game? Unless we do it in a happy way, with a big shit eating grin?.....Wow and they call me a carebear.

Why cant we all just be positive? because there is TOO much to be negative about.

Remove the ability to complain about things we hope to change, and I fear it will just be the last straw for to many people. Because complaining (or rather the hope that it will bring a change) is something people hold on to. Remove hope that things can change, and why would people that are even slightly unhappy stay?,

One of the big things about EU is its "dynamic" meaning things change, but if we are mot allowed to speak about things we dislike, and what we want to change, we have little hope it will change for the better.

I personally will never deposit again, (as long as space travel is in a PVP lootable area), I will instead focus on withdraws again.

I will continue to voice my frustration with a arguably "forced" pvp environment. I complain out of hopes things will change, but I am practical enough to realize they probably wont, and I need to instead focus on getting my money back, + and looking for a better place to spend my $.
You can still complain. But, if you feel it's necessary to come into every thread and insult people that get a good loot, or win a contest, or bash MA over any and every patch, change, or post, then maybe it's just better if you did leave.
 

Ludvig|MindArk

MindArk Official
Staff member
MindArk Official
Moderator
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Posts
15,556
Location
Sweden
Avatar Name
Formerly "Foeburner Nighthawk Delta"
So we are not allowed to express ourselves about our game? Unless we do it in a happy way, with a big shit eating grin?.....Wow and they call me a carebear.
There are good ways to express negativity and there are bad ways to express negativity.

There is also a difference between those who express negativity because they care about the game and those who are obviously only here because they are destructive and hateful.




Just because people are asked to refrain from excessive whining doesn't mean they have to be happy and positive about everything.
 

Daniel Steps

Prowler
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Posts
1,087
Avatar Name
Undisclosed³
After moving the main forum form Entropia Forum to PCF, I was unable to login so I just stopped visiting. I also deleted EU and had one year off. When I check this forum nowadays, when Im back for some months already, I can see the trend of increased whining is going on...

Well, but this all comes from something, it wasnt here before yet now it is. You cant stop it with some regulations and whatever, I guess its just the more players feel upset about the game. before it was few, now its so much ppl you can hardly read a forum if you dont want to go thru "excessive whining" as you call it.

If I was proud of our community as a whole before some years, now it isnt the case. There are good people around, but the change is evident. You know, some big names dissapeared, people who loved this game the most, were so disguised with it, that they left. This shows something is rotten.

I see this trend going on for years, and its MAs fault. If the VUs were ONLY what is written in the release notes, it wont be like this. BUT EVERY VU has its official and secret parts. Secret is just basicaly nerfs and ripoffs, and it was almost in every VU I have witnessed.

When you write down all those changes in "secret" part of VUs, you will get a hell of a long list full of BS!!!! Like they think we idiots and we will not manage it...

nah, I dont want to get into this again, I just wanted to point out, that this is what MA was askin for for a long time.
Couldn't have said it better. I dislike negativity, but i keep getting negative when i play EU and if support cases aren't actually being acted on there's only the forum (and rl and quitting, neither fix the problem) ... fix the problem and the symptoms will go away.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top