F.o.m.a - misfortuna

[Ludvig|MindArk]

You know the whole lottery analogy is just wrong.
Lottery's payout from what they take in.
You have to pay to play.
Lottery's are required by law to follow certain terms and conditions, since it is gambling.

Pesok was paying out of his own pocket
It was a free event
Being that it was free it can't be called gambling, so laws on that matter don't apply here.

As you are clearly missing my point entirely here, lets just call off the argument because I really dont have the energy to discuss fine matters of something that you are intent at seeing in a certain way no matter what.

 

[jaywalker]

Rule 2.3 - Personal Disputes, also Rule 2.9 - Excessive Complaining

Thats what it comes across to me as complaining over and over, This dispute is not going to be resolved either way, its a drag seeing this every day, move on get over it.

just lock the Thread please and anymore that come along, and no i have nothing to do with either member in dispute this is just a drag...

Actually lot of things have been resolved, in the sense that most longstanding particants were coming to agree on a few key issues, and that none of thes people were sniping , whining or in any way behaving badly, in that process. It can never be finally resolved without an answer from Foma of course (and if this thread gets locked before that happens, that will not be in Foma's interest, no more than abnyone else's , because these issues are not gonna go away)

If the trolls would move aside, this would be a lot more more obvious, and could likely proceed a bit further. But you prefer that the trolls should win?

If your problem is boredom, just don't read it. If your problem is whining , report the whiners, not the thread. Just be careful to identify the real whiners first. They are easily spotted. If you accept (as most of us do) that the OP isn't a whine, then you can find any number of much more clear -cear cut examples, mostly from people who didn't read the thread because they find their own assumptions more entertaining.

jay

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

As you are clearly missing my point entirely here, lets just call off the argument because I really dont have the energy to discuss fine matters of something that you are intent at seeing in a certain way no matter what.

If your trying to make a point then do it without metaphors. The way you are presenting your case makes it wildly open for interpretation.

Also I just noticed something that I can't believe I missed.

10) please no PM's/Ingame chats(unless you not contending for a prize) - post all your ideas here - otherwise can be hard to determine the winner.

No where in that rule does it say that you will be disqualified from receiving a prize, just that it would be hard to determine the winner. So by that point this event wasn't even shady.

 

[Dalas]

Jod, this was an argument before I showed up. Wizz was actually do a better job of arguing it then me until he lost his cool.

You mean before his blatant personal attack on me was just too obvious for anyone else apart from you to deny? It's all in the obsessive "...So Dalas doesn't deserve any more" repetition in every damn post. Again, I suggest you go back and read the thread you jumped into at page 20 and decided you knew better than anyone else about.

I have already answered and rendered useless your petty attempts to argue against me getting money. I have received, accepted and appreciated the second place prize. No one is debating whether Foma should have given me anything. He obviously thought so himself.

Jod has already rendered useless your attempts to make Foma's sketchy rule-deleting behaviour look acceptable.

If you want to bring "cultural differences", "upbringing" and "social status" then there are an awful lot of people here in the same house.

This is what you are doing to this thread, Corey:

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

You mean before his blatant personal attack on me was just too obvious for anyone else apart from you to deny? It's all in the obsessive "...So Dalas doesn't deserve any more" repetition in every damn post. Again, I suggest you go back and read the thread you jumped into at page 20 and decided you knew better than anyone else about.

I have already answered and rendered useless your petty attempts to argue against me getting money. I have received, accepted and appreciated the second place prize. No one is debating whether Foma should have given me anything. He obviously thought so himself.

Jod has already rendered useless your attempts to make Foma's sketchy rule-deleting behaviour look acceptable.

If you want to bring "cultural differences", "upbringing" and "social status" then there are an awful lot of people here in the same house.

This is what you are doing to this thread, Corey:

Actually Jod has done nothing to disprove my points. If I know what Wiz was posting then doesn't that make it pretty obvious that I read this thread? Yes I know he lost his cool. That is not something I am debating, I was just making the point that this was an argument before I got here.
I am not saying you should receive no money, except where I used an example of twisting the rules to disqualify you, but I stated that it was an example only.
If this was never about money or a personal dispute with Pesok, then what was the point of creating this thread?

 

[Dalas]

If this was never about money or a personal dispute with Pesok, then what was the point of creating this thread?

Maybe you should read the thread and find out instead of pretending to have read it

I have said it more than once.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

If your trying to make a point then do it without metaphors. The way you are presenting your case makes it wildly open for interpretation.

Not really, it was just you interpreting it in your favor while it was, in fact, not really open to interpretation.

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Not really, it was just you interpreting it in your favor while it was, in fact, not really open to interpretation.

Metaphors have the annoying habit of meaning what the reader wants them to mean. That's why most people don't use them to try to get their point across.

 

[jod]

Also you should know that these where the rules for the contenders, not for Pesok. These where the rules that the contenders had to follow. He didn't post the rules he was binding himself to, thats why I agree this was shady.

Seriously??
Are you kidding me?
Is that where your going now?
I'm sorry but after that there is just no way I can take anything you say as credible anymore.
That is absolutely the weakest and most flawed argument anyone has come up with not only in this thread but in just about every debate I've seen so far in this forum.
My god man that one is an absolute boomer!

By they way Jod, I'm not the only one using debate tactics. You say I am minimizing but you are exaggerating.
I am agreeing to disagree with you, as can be seen by our posts, we are obviously not agreeing.

I was going to ask you to point out to me where I have exaggerated but I'm not going to bother.
I just cant take anything you say anymore as serious discussion.
I'm truly dumbfounded by the ridiculousness of your last statement.

For once I'm speechless....

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Oh good Jod, you have resorted to insulting my argument rather then countering it. I actually thought you where above that.
Dalas, okay I went back and double checked and found the post about this not being about money. Your problem seems to be that you made assumptions on what would be disqualified as an entry. I still fail how your mistake is Pesoks fault. Haven't you ever learned that if it sounds to good to be true it probably is. Well that's what the contest was, to good to be true, I realized that before entering that the odds of anyone taking first place on the forum where slim. Perhaps you should have spent more time on the rules before you entered the contest. Maybe Pesok could have gotten a lawyer to look over his rules to make sure they where iron clad. But considering it was a fun event, I don't think Pesok bothered to spend to much time on those rules, as can be seen by how easy they are to twist around.

 

[jod]

Oh good Jod, you have resorted to insulting my argument rather then countering it. I actually thought you where above that.

Hey I'm all for a sensible debate,you should know that by now,but when you use something so ridiculous there is just nothing to say.

Logic and common sense doesn't work against something so ridiculous and I'm not interested in debating the ridiculous.

I may have 'insulted' your argument but thats because its a completely insulting argument to suggest in the first place.

You have said in another thread that you like to argue for arguments sake.I'm not interested in playing that game with you.

I'm also not interested in taking the bait for you to de-rail the thread or to waste time arguing for arguments sake because you find it fun which with arguments like the one you presented is the only logical conclusion I can come to for such a thing to be posted.

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

You have said in another thread that you like to argue for arguments sake.I'm not interested in playing that game with you.

I'm also not interested in taking the bait for you to de-rail the thread or to waste time arguing for arguments sake because you find it fun which with arguments like the one you presented is the only logical conclusion I can come to for such a thing to be posted.

Actually I said I like the no holds barred type of argument from time to time. Like the one I had with Aio a few nights ago. It had nothing at all to do with the thread. You see in those arguments each person accuses the other of some flaw or another, then try to manipulate them into committing that flaw. To her credit she played the game well, and almost had me at one point. And neither of us "won".

Now back on topic. To end the debate with me all you have to do is either, admit that you where mistaken about the contest rules, or stop posting that Pesok broke them.

 

[jod]

Now back on topic. To end the debate with me all you have to do is either, admit that you where mistaken about the contest rules, or stop posting that Pesok broke them.

Not gonna happen when you yourself already admitted he broke them also.

But if you want to go back on that then guess where that puts us?
Right back to my very first post to you where I suggested that if you don't think any rules where broken we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Now back on topic. To end the debate with me all you have to do is either, admit that you where mistaken about the contest rules, or stop posting that Pesok broke them.

Sooo what you are saying is pretty much "I dont have any real arguments so I am going to keep repeating the ones I have until you give up"

Gee, what a skilled debater you are!

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Sooo what you are saying is pretty much "I dont have any real arguments so I am going to keep repeating the ones I have until you give up"

Gee, what a skilled debater you are!

Why do I need a new argument when the ones I have are yet to be discredited? And where I made mistakes or had flaws in my arguments, I did adjust them accordingly.

 

[Chrome]

ACK!!!!!

Will you guys STOP responding to Corey!!!

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Why do I need a new argument when the ones I have are yet to be discredited? And where I made mistakes or had flaws in my arguments, I did adjust them accordingly.

Well you have in several cases disproven or countered your arguments YOURSELF and then used them again.

Actually, I am going to keep away from this thread now... its not a good use of my time to waste it debating with you...

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Well you have in several cases disproven or countered your arguments YOURSELF and then used them again.

Actually, I am going to keep away from this thread now... its not a good use of my time to waste it debating with you...

Happy hofing then

 

[jaywalker]

Will you guys STOP responding to Corey!!!

Seconded (and I have stopped responding to Corey)

What I'd really like to see now, if he would, is for Jod to sum up the main points of the debate thus far, so that newcomers to thread can see what it's really all about.

In his earlier posts to Corey, I have to say, he was actually doing an excellent job of this, but it's all got snowed-under now

jay

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

You know that ignoring people with different arguments then you doesn't win the debate. Now that it looks like this thread is in it's final moments anyone wanna know why I bothered posting?
I knew I would most likely fail to convince any of you that you where mistaken.
I don't know Pesok, so it wasn't in defence of a friend.
So why did I do it? For the "Guests" To show them we are not all out for blood. To show that these posts, aimed at ND, Quetesh, Pesok. Are not only flawed but not the opinion of all members of this community.

Or does anyone want to continue the debate?

 

[jod]

Seconded (and I have stopped responding to Corey)

What I'd really like to see now, if he would, is for Jod to sum up the main points of the debate thus far, so that newcomers to thread can see what it's really all about.

In his earlier posts to Corey, I have to say, he was actually doing an excellent job of this, but it's all got snowed-under now

jay

I'm done with him.He can talk to himself now.
He's contradicted himself too many times and even gone to the ridiculous when all else was lost,when that failed then lets just go back to the beginning and start all over again or pull out the old 'witch hunt' chestnut.

I could sum up the main points so far but tbh mate its 7am in the morning here and I need some sleep.
The OP still covers it pretty well I think.For the most part all i really did was re-iterate what was in there.


After some rest I'll have a re-read and sum up if its necessary.

 

[Chrome]

...sum up the main points of the debate thus far...

I'll do it.

1. Pesok had an ambiguous contest
   
   
2. Some people in the community didn't like it, while others don't see the outcome as a big deal
   
   
3. Neither side will win the "argument"

 

[Dalas]

I'll do it.

1. Pesok had an ambiguous contest
   
   
2. Some people in the community didn't like it, while others don't see the outcome as a big deal
   
   
3. Neither side will win the "argument"

Quite succinctly done there, however I just want to make it clear to newcomers (if anyone dares to come here anymore) that the thread was not about any "arguement", it was about me creating awareness about and summing up an event gone dodgy in my opinion.

Yes there is a lot of subjectivity in there, yes my opinion and emotion are strongly visible, but hey, I'm allowed to have opinions and feelings about things. I would rather not have felt like this thread had to be made, and no one else would/could/should have made it for me, but perhaps Foma should have thought about that after the event ended and concerns were published in his thread. Since he obviously wanted nothing to do with it, I felt I should speak up.

Also, if you complain to a real business, they won't completely ignore you. They would actually make sure you are satisfied with whatever you complained about, be it a worm in your chocolate bar or a mouldy burger. Since the customers are their advertisement, they'd always try to win the customer over. Unfortunately, Foma either left it too late or considered it unnecessary to make amends financially, however a simple explanation would do even at this point - I'm not bothered about being showered in free stuff by now.

There is another angle to this as well:

I literally grew up with Entropia. I've been here since PreGold without taking any breaks at all, in 8 years and 3 months now. I love this place and I have built up many friendships, had countless great encounters with fun people from all over the world and hopefully touched a life or two in my Entropian lifetime. This includes meeting and now living with my girlfriend whom I met in Entropia (and who doesn't have a PCF account for those wondering where she is in all this). It's been a long and happy one so far.

Now, the Asteroid is a part of this Universe which I care about so much and entering such a huge competition as naming the Asteroid gave a feeling like "Wow! I could actually leave a tangible, meaningful mark on Entropia, the actual name of the Asteroid!". It's not a small thing to be not only involved in the naming of it, but perhaps see the name I suggested being shown all over Entropia for the rest of my time in Entropia. I would much rather have had positive mental connections to this event, rather than feeling underappreciated and tossed aside (note: FEELING).

The feeling I have towards F.O.M.A FORTUNA every time I see the name is just a reminder of how badly that competition was handled and I'm sure will also be for many others, and that is not the kind of advertisement he wants walking around Entropia.

At this point, I wonder if it would help for me to get in touch with Foma and ask for a mere explanation, some reasoning behind his decisions perhaps? Is it wise to ask for such, if I keep it between Foma and myself, or will people not believe that it will remain private?


Hmmm...

 

[JohnCapital]

At this point, I wonder if it would help for me to get in touch with Foma and ask for a mere explanation, some reasoning behind his decisions perhaps? Is it wise to ask for such, if I keep it between Foma and myself, or will people not believe that it will remain private?

That should have happened in the first place.

Go contact him and talk it out. If you two can't figure things out like adults, then fine, come to the public and perhaps find someone to be a mediator.

In the mean time, this thread is done. If after talking w/ him privately you want this thead reopened, let me know.