Help: Finding Out New Players Rate Of Return

M Rufen Power

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Hi New Players,

If you are new to the game and a hunter, please share:
  • What your TT returns are, before using a maxed item
  • What your TT returns are, after using a maxed item
You can choose any weapon, but TT weapons would be ideal.
State the weapon's efficiency rating and looter professions.
PS: Anyone who's from Thule or TT weps maxed can share.


Thanks

MRP
 

arielos

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It would be very interesting if new players participate! But I'm afraid that people at this early lvl do not understand or care about the loot mechanism of the game :unsure: ... as we do now :grouphug:

Gratz for your good idea anyway!
 

Merz

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Hey Mark,

I have cycled 600 PED on Caraboks (Arkadia) in the past 10 day's.
100 PED TT Shortblades (maxed)
250 PED (ammo) with a TT pistol + SX (maxed)
250 PED (ammo) with a Isis LBP 1 (L) (maxed)
Looter prof. 1 :D

TT return ranged from 88% to 92.5% ... IN THE END the avg. return was 91.2%

Nowhere close to being able to sell my MU loot due to too low in TT.
But avg. MU from a 100 PED run is about 2.5 - 3%. So MU Return <94%.

"Playing the game for 15 hours and 'losing' 52.8 PED is actually OK to me.
If it was 30 day's i would have cycled 1800 PED and lost 150'ish PED which is close to WoW Subscription...
"

'Fun fact' this is the exact amount of "cycle" that i needed to complete my discipleship.
 
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M Rufen Power

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Hey Mark,

I have cycled 600 PED on Caraboks (Arkadia) in the past 10 day's.
100 PED TT Shortblades (maxed)
250 PED (ammo) with a TT pistol + SX (maxed)
250 PED (ammo) with an Isis LBP 1 (L) (maxed)
Looter prof. 1 :D

TT return ranged from 88% to 92.5% ... IN THE END the avg return was 91.2%

Nowhere close to being able to sell my MU loot due to too low in TT.
But avg. MU from a 100 PED run is about 2.5 - 3%. So MU Return <94%.

"Playing the game for 15 hours and 'losing' 52.8 PED is actually OK to me.
If it were 30 day's, I would have cycled 1800 PED and lost 150'ish PED which is close to WoW Subscription...
"

'Fun fact' this is the exact amount of "cycle" that I needed to complete my discipleship.

Yo Merz, thanks for sharing your results thus far, I really appreciate it!
So it seems that for new players with hardly any skills it's around 91%.
Seems to coincide with my findings on minimum return rates ingame.
However, it doesn't fit with the efficiency rating; you should be higher.
But then again, you are using other weapon combinations, not all eco.
 

Merz

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Yo Merz, thanks for sharing your results thus far, I really appreciate it!
So it seems that for new players with hardly any skills it's around 91%.
Seems to coincide with my findings on minimum return rates ingame.
However, it doesn't fit with the efficiency rating; you should be higher.
But then again, you are using other weapon combinations, not all eco.
Yeah, tt swords and the LBP-1 are lower eff.
 

M Rufen Power

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Yeah, TT swords and the LBP-1 are lower eff.

Yeah, sadly that's how it is, higher efficiency = higher returns.
Keep up the skilling and the returns over time should improve.
Is there any other newbies hunting who can provide some data?
 

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250 PED (ammo) with a TT pistol + SX (maxed)
250 PED (ammo) with a Isis LBP 1 (L) (maxed)
Looter prof. 1 :D

Just to confirm, is decay included in the total cycled peds? Since you specific mention Ammo.
 

SuperKanjo

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With repairs the number is higher but the 'return-%' is calculated on Ammo+repairs.

Awesome, must say that return (although it's a small sample) is higher then expected. Thank you for sharing (y)
 

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Volatility of small mobs cant be compared with a bigger one. Returns of beginners will be higher than the rest for sure.

IT IS THE LURE :poke::computer:
 
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Merz

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Volatility of small mobs cant be compared with a bigger one. Returns of beginners will be higher than the rest for sure.

IT IS THE LURE :poke::computer:

That is actually something i am a little afraid of... i am okay with cycling 1500 PED/month on Caraboks and losing 10%.
(lots of skills gain in return, 100PED hunt gives 3.5 PED TT skills in the main profession/skill for example Handgun)

I'm planning to cycle 2500 PED more on caraboks to get the following skills up:
Handgun BLP 500 PED
Handgun Laser 500 PED
Shortblades 500 PED
Powerfist 500 PED
(corrosive) Mindforce 500 PED

That would be another -250 PEDs but lots of skills in return... and that's a good 2 months worth of playtime for me.

After that i could do some hunting with Z12+ SX on Exa's, berycled, tabtab, Vixen etc...

But at some point in the future,... even if thats in 6 months, when i'm done with Exa's etc... i will have to go up to higher mobs.

The Unl guns are expensive so i will have to go (L) and "waste" PEDs on MU... Also most likely grab a ghost + 5B which is a good 1.1-1.2k PEDS.
An A104 is "only" +230 PED... But the guns have 110%-120% MU... and thats the main problem.

Higher mobs require higher bankroll and this will be an important moment for me.

Do i deposit 200-300$ to buy the gear and have a bankroll and keep playing. Deposit 50$ a month to compensate my losses or not..?

i feel like i should start a new post about this in N00bs Corner
 

SuperKanjo

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But the guns have 110%-120% MU... and thats the main problem.

Higher mobs require higher bankroll and this will be an important moment for me.

You can check on Entropiawiki the impact of markup on DPP, and even with 120% most the Armatrix weapons have better DPP and EFF then most UL weapons, except the high EFF FEN/Mayhem weapons. It isn't that bad as it seems.

You are right about bankroll, bankroll management is a very important aspect in this game.
 

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i will have to go up to higher mobs.

You don't really have to if you're not comfortable with it, the game doesn't force you to upgrade your gear, which is great imho. Also, you can hunt several 1-1.5 PED mobs with adj. pixie + a set of 5b plates or scales.
 

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You don't really have to if you're not comfortable with it, the game doesn't force you to upgrade your gear, which is great imho. Also, you can hunt several 1-1.5 PED mobs with adj. pixie + a set of 5b plates or scales.
Yeah, I agree but hunting the low mobs forever and ever is not gonna be much fun and eventually leading to me quitting the game.
OR not actually skilling and developing my character but standing afk in city's, doing newbie Z12 hunting and swunting events or derping around at the rig.

Also, as a professional irl i can play for about 2 hours/days (if i miss a day i catch up on the weekend) and my game-time is valuable to me so doing daily coin missions to get free guns or free 2ped/day etc... is not really interesting to me.
 

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You don't really have to if you're not comfortable with it, the game doesn't force you to upgrade your gear, which is great imho. Also, you can hunt several 1-1.5 PED mobs with adj. pixie + a set of 5b plates or scales.

you can hunt proterons and osseos naked, or caperons.
 

M Rufen Power

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That is actually something I am a little afraid of I am okay with cycling 1500 PED/month on Caraboks and losing 10% (lots of skills gain in return, 100PED hunt gives 3.5 PED TT skills in the main profession/skill for example Handgun)
Having enough bankroll is to avoid the risk of ruin is just one aspect, the other is mob deficits or as it should be called loot sine waves.
PS: you should so start your own newbie thread about your journey early on in the game, would be a nice read for all and yourself lol.
 

Merz

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Having enough bankroll is to avoid the risk of ruin is just one aspect, the other is mob deficits or as it should be called loot sine waves.
PS: you should so start your own newbie thread about your journey early on in the game, would be a nice read for all and yourself lol.
Yeah, sorry for spamming your thread!
 

M Rufen Power

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Bump for other new players input!
 

psyche

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This is a good idea and very useful info to have. It's kinda sad that new players can only achieve 90% tt return. Merz does a lot of research and asking questions so he can get to 91%, but most noobs who doesn't would probably be below that. It also sounds like those calypso bone samples MU are going down due to the meta codex. Makes it even harder for most noobs to survive.
@Merz are you also tracking your loots and calculating the average loot mu on those caraboks? I can't imagine the carabok MU bringing your return up to 95% either.
Brings me to the question if Merz's 91% return is becuase of his low skills or if it's just Carabok's poor return rate.
Some theories are that the more skills you gain, the less you gain in loot. Other theories are that 10HP mobs have poor return because of the over kill dmg.

Anyone with a higher loot prof and higher eff. weapons grinded on caraboks with higher than 91% tt return over the long term?
 

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This is a good idea and very useful info to have. It's kinda sad that new players can only achieve 90% tt return. Merz does a lot of research and asking questions so he can get to 91%, but most noobs who doesn't would probably be below that. It also sounds like those calypso bone samples MU are going down due to the meta codex. Makes it even harder for most noobs to survive.
@Merz are you also tracking your loots and calculating the average loot mu on those caraboks? I can't imagine the carabok MU bringing your return up to 95% either.
Brings me to the question if Merz's 91% return is becuase of his low skills or if it's just Carabok's poor return rate.
Some theories are that the more skills you gain, the less you gain in loot. Other theories are that 10HP mobs have poor return because of the over kill dmg.

Anyone with a higher loot prof and higher eff. weapons grinded on caraboks with higher than 91% tt return over the long term?
Here is a little test from my side used lp 40 perfected (91% eff) on sabakuma hatchlings 10 hp mob same as caraboks, cause of overkill loot was pure shrapnel and bones.
No muscle oils / weapons or anything droped at the time of test my looter was 52 lvl :)
DateCostTT of Loottt %TT result
2020
4490.22 PED​
4396.23 PED​
97.91%​
-93.99 PED​
 
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psyche

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Here is a little test from my side used lp 40 perfected (91% eff) on sabakuma hatchlings 10 hp mob same as caraboks, cause of overkill loot was pure shrapnel and bones.
No muscle oils / weapons or anything droped at the time of test my looter was 52 lvl :)
DateCostTT of Loottt %TT result
2020
4490.22 PED​
4396.23 PED​
97.91%​
-93.99 PED​
That is very good data! It further supports Mark's finding too! Thanks for sharing
I'm happy to know that overkill dmg doesn't bring down TT return. Now I can stop worrying about overkill dmg :)
But then it's also a shame to know that new players have no way of getting a good return due to their low looter prof.
No matter how much they research and learn about the game the only way for them to survive is to take the near 10% loss until they lvl up their looter prof.

Another strange thing to me is that my current looter is level 9.87. It's still under level 10 which is considered low. That mean during the start of my Exa grind my looter was even lower. I was still able to achieve a 96% tt return.
Is this because of my DPP/eff. from using the tt pistol and the ZX amp? or because my looter level is a lot higher than lvl 3 exas?
 

arielos

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It also sounds like those calypso bone samples MU are going down due to the meta codex. Makes it even harder for most noobs to survive.

Maybe due to the new meta Codex, Dev's inserted Blazar Fragments in loot from exarosaur young. So noobs, with enough bankroll and efficient equipment, can afford after mark up.
 

M Rufen Power

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This is a good idea and beneficial info to have. It's quite sad that new players can only achieve a 90% tt return. Merz does a lot of research and asking questions so he can get to 91%, but most noobs who don't would probably be below that. It also sounds like those calypso bone samples MU are going down due to the meta codex, making it even harder for most noobs to survive.

@Merz are you also tracking your loots and calculating the average loot mu on those caraboks? I can't imagine the carabok MU bringing your return up to 95%, either. This brings me to the question if Merz's 91% return is because of his low skills or if it's just Carabok's poor return rate. Some theories are that the more skills you gain, the less you gain in loot. Other theories are that 10HP mobs have poor return because of the overkill dmg. Anyone with a higher loot prof and higher effs weapons grinding on caraboks with a higher than 91% tt return over the long term?
These are all valid points, either Carabok has lower avg returns due to the high skill gains per kill, or they literally have lower returns (higher variance) because of not much cycling on them. So I would imagine the kill count on these would have to be very high indeed to get a good enough return rate.
 

M Rufen Power

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A little test from my side used LP-40 Perfected (91% Eff) on Sabakuma hatchlings 10 hp mob the same as caraboks, cause the overkill loot to be pure shrapnel bones. No muscle oils/weapons or anything dropped at the time of the test; my looter was 52 LVL :)
DateCostTT of Loottt %TT result
2020
4490.22 PED​
4396.23 PED​
97.91%​
-93.99 PED​
So you have 30.7K kills, and you still ended up below 99%? This is where I would expect you to be around with that Eff, Looter and number of Kills. I mean, I honestly don't know what to make of this data. The only conclusions I can draw from this sample is, 7% is roughly the max you can draw from eff/looter if base returns are 91%; however, we know that looter increases your TT return by 0.07% per level, which for you is 3.64% and is not capped.

Which IMO makes efficiency entirely obsolete from this equation based on your data, as you should be very close to breaking even, having said that 97.91% (98% rounded) is about the medium range and not out of the ordinary as I believe the range to be between 97-99% for someone in your position. Still, the kills throw me way off.
 
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M Rufen Power

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That is excellent data! It further supports Mark's finding too! Thanks for sharing; I'm happy to know that overkill dmg doesn't bring down TT return. Now I can stop worrying about overkill dmg. :) But then it's also a shame to know that new players have no way of getting a good return due to their low looter prof. No matter how much they research and learn about the game, the only way to survive is to take the near 10% loss until they LVL up their looter prof.

Another strange thing to me is that my current looter is level 9.87. It's still under level 10, which is considered low. That means during the start of my Exa grind, and my looter was even lower. I was still able to achieve a 96% tt return. Is this because of my DPP/eff from using the tt pistol and the ZX amp? or because my looter level is a lot higher than LVL 3 Exa's?
It supports my findings to some degree. Yeah, overkill or extra decay is basically returned in shrapnel you want to avoid, especially if the mob drops something with unusually high markup; you want as many opportunities to drop.

Now with your sample, you were 91% Base + 4.55 Eff + 0.35% (Lv5) on looter, which translates to a 95.90% TT return, so you obtained higher than avg results for sure, but the amount of kills is what made the biggest difference in my opinion as to the main vehicle for eff/looter to take effect.

With 96% average returns, you are in the medium range for your efficiency. To have had exceptional results would have meant a higher TT return of 97% so you are in a stable place right there at 96%. I always vouch for the M2100 (L) + ZX combo; it has served me and others well over time.
 
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M Rufen Power

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Maybe due to the new meta Codex, Dev's inserted Blazar Fragments in loot from Exarosaur young. So noobs, with enough bankroll and efficient equipment, can afford after mark up.
Blazar was already a staple drop on Exa well before the codex and meta updates. If anything, they nerfed the drop rate and nerfed the value due to new quests, lol. So I doubt they are looking out for new players to the degree you suggest.
 
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