Question: Give sweat a real TT value?

[Sweat]

I think for newbies, one of the hardest things to do is to sell your already-hard-to-earn-sweat.
I think sweat should be given a REAL TT value, something like 1pec each or something. (You can give me opinion on this)
Then that way, the price would stabilize (and let more newbies enjoy the game, and then maybe DEPOSITING into the game, rather than quitting because it takes them 3 hours to earn a dollar). The price has been going down for a while, and it still is.
Also, it prevents newbies from taken advantage of, when some people buy it for far less than "going" price.
And it allows mindforce users to buy sweat from a TT for a fixed price, allowing more economy stability.
The only people that do not benefit are the people who are sweat resellers.

Newbie = MA

If you disagree, please reply and tell me why before you start flaming and -rep-ping.

<edit> It should read: Yes, help the newbies AND the EU community!

I am fighting for my very own rights. haha, sorry.

 

[Count0]

sweat has a real tt value, put 1k sweat into tt and u`ll see

 

[thoreau]

MA is brilliant in the way they implemented sweat.

Sweat has such a low TT value that you really must sell it to another person. Because of this, the money earned from sweat does not come from MA - it comes from other players.

As such, it does not cost MA any money for 'free' players. If MA gave sweat a higher TT value then MA would lose money.

 

[Noggin]

As far as I know, changing the TT of sweat to a higher value would undermine the design of the game as a whole.

The TT value of sweat comes from MA. If you're suddenly able to extract significant TT value directly from MA, the thousands of noobs who join up suddenly become a huge cost.

Having a markup, or 'market value' means that the money comes straight out of other players deposits or PED cards, and therefore doesn't directly affect the profitability of the game, and in some ways encourages the growth of the economy as a whole.

If you could sell your sweat to a TT, that would also make mindforce activities prohibitively high, as if they weren't expensive enough.

I don't disagree in essence about what you're saying - it must be hard for a non-depositing noob.

Personally, if it was me, and I couldn't deposit for whatever reason, I think I'd just uninstall and play something else

 

[lilac]

I agree with the need to help with the "free trial" of the game (such as giving sweat another use), but giving sweat a value of 1 pec each would be disastorous...

1. deposits fund the gameplay experience... If I could make enough sweating to fund a 10k ammo hunt in 1/1000 of the time, I would probably never deposit and neither would alot of other people.

2. Sweating would actually be profitable enough for cottage industries to form in third world countries where people would sweat farm like they farm for gold in other MMporgs. This ped would go right out of the economy.

3. Players who actually deposit would have even less of a return because of the ped leaving the economy and they're funding THAT MUCH more of other people's gameplay experience.

4. The game would eventually go bankrupt, some good people would be out
thousands of dollars... and there wouldn't be planet calypso to have fun in anymore.

I never fault anyone for sharing an idea with the community, so thank you

and sweating is a pain in the ass... so i empathize

but this idea (which you're not the only one to have expressed) is absolutely the most self-centered, myopic, least thought out thing i have read for a while...

 

[Az Bloodz]

If sweat had a higher TT value too much PEDs would circulate ingame. It does not matter if the sweaters withdraw or anyone else there will be too much PED that need to be backed up by MA. I do not want to blame you but everyone who is really thinking about this particular topic comes to the same conclusions it's always some newer players who think 'I want to play for free and I want to have more fun doing it'. Just accept the game as it is. Cry for MA to 'adjust' the market the way you want is not the right way.

P.S.: actually there is a way to increase the value of sweat, just pay 300% for ME and buy every singe piece of it.

 

[Nyxy]

I think for newbies, one of the hardest things to do is to sell your already-hard-to-earn-sweat.

I think it's hard only because they don't deposit - which is really fast and easy. And, of course, trying to sell at prices only 5% of the buyers are willing to pay, just because it would be so cool if sweat was actually selling that high 95% of the time...

If you have an internet connection, you have $10 to deposit (about 20k sweat). I don't feel sorry for sweaters at all - actually, I think it's unbelievably stupid to be so greedy to rather work for ~20 cents per hour than to spend some pocket change and actually try the game out (unless you sweat for a challenge, that's another story). And that "hard earned sweat" crap - it is just that: sweat earned in a really hard, boring way. It's hard and boring because its value is slightly higher than crap - get over it. Everyone can sweat, tons of people do sweat (flooding the market with it) and the demand just is what it is - that's why it's so cheap. If you want better prices, tell people to stop sweating, because it isn't worth it, and/or start creating extra demand by buying it yourself at your own loss (something like all those MF healers/focusers are already doing when they are healing/focusing - guess who - sweaters!).

Poor sweaters being exploited by resellers again... Sweaters and resellers are both leeching money from depositors - only difference is, resellers are making their time a bit more worthwhile by actually being smart about it! If you want to get the same prices as resellers get for the sweat they buy, then do all the other things that resellers do for you: have money, buy nexus, refine and sell ME on auction or directly to ME users. If you're not willing to do all the work required, don't complain about the resellers' prices - they are rightfully charging a fee for their convenience service (which is instant money for you and finding end users later). Just as sweaters are charging a fee for their sweat gathering effort. And please don't stand in PA for hours trying to get a marginally better price, when your opportunity cost is several hundred, even thousands of bottles of sweat - you're just proving that sweat resellers are actually providing a useful service and that you suck at math.

Also keep in mind that when you try to sell at above market prices, or try to raise the price, you're trying to exploit end-users who would then have to pay a higher price. So, end-users could just as well be complaining that sweat prices are too high and how sweaters are exploiting them for their hard earned cash! Luckily, that's what the market is for - to decide what the fair price is. Your fixed sweat price proposal is all about eliminating the market so you could sell sweat at artificially inflated prices.

Get in touch with reality: you're playing a game. It's luxury. It's not like those poor sweaters are going to die if they can't play a game for free. But since they own a computer and an internet connection, they aren't that poor after all.

 

[Zacariaz]

Do take a moment to cosider what would happen if playing for free/earning peds, was easy.

Yes that's right, people would deposit less and the economy of the game will suffer thus making the experience for the depositing (and non depositing) players worse.

 

[Eron²]

I think for newbies, one of the hardest things to do is to sell your already-hard-to-earn-sweat.

if its so hard to sell grab a tt matter finder and extractor go hit up TI (thats where i get the most nexus) find force nexus make ME.... use the ME or sell it at a good markup.

also, sweat does have a tt value its just really small

 

[addz]

I think it would be better that they bumped the TT value up a little but still have the TT value below the market price.

Say 1 or 2 ped per 1000

That way a vast majority of sweat would still be sold to other players. However a small amount would go to the TT for people who needed peds fast. Also it would be more motivational if you could see an instant worst case value of your efforts.

Another option would be to set the TT price to something like 2.5ped/1000 (still under current market price) And then cut the drop rate a little.

The increase in people TTing sweat combined with the decrease in the drop rate would put the price up a little. Even if the overall benefit to sweaters is minimal the fact is that if they feel they are gaining more value from their efforts they are likely to stay longer.

However from a mind force users point of view all these ideas are terrible.

 

[The Nightbird]

I think making removing sweating could also help the game - seeing and dying is still free and once they see enough, it would compel them to deposit and try the game out. The hardcore sweaters can turn to finding fruit and rocks. Small amounts of sweat can be looted instead from hunting animals. Why do I say this? Because sweating involves camping in one spot, they never really have the incentive to see all that EU has to offer. Finding fruit one the other hand... you'll want to explore and find fresh areas.

 

[Hazzim]

Having Sweat maintaining its current form would be a wiser decision. To me it would filter those that are willing to play EU despite the hardship for those whom "Sweat for Peds".

One change would be tho is the Sweat price control. Perhaps pegging sweat prices or raise it in some manner? A few pecs goes a long way for newbies and non D's

 

[Cron]

I voted "NO" Its a generous price at 1 pec per 1k tt. Any additional amount is what other players value paying for it. I would prefer not subsidizing a full time sweater from my deposits.

 

[coubo]

I agree with the comments that putting a tt value for sweat
- will be uneconomical for MA
- will likely attract full time sweater, bots, etc... which will just pump money from MA and thus from the loot pool

One thing that would be done would be to make sweating "more fun" with more reactivity required from the user to increase his % chance success or avoid mob aggro.
In the end, what MA wants/hopes is that people get bored and start "depositing” (I don’t like this word since it’s not a deposit but a sale to MA). What is interesting from the comment from older player here, is they have understood well that they need the noob to deposit and loose their money to fund their own loot pool. Enjoy the pyramid!

Today, even with the low price, it’s still quite easy to reach 100+ ped just by sweating and trading a bit, equivalent to an initial deposit of 10$. The problem with most sweaters is that, as soon as they get a little money, they only dream of not sweating anymore (because they are bored to death) and go hunt/mine (buying some useless armor in passing, as if any armor was needed to kill daikibas). Thus they go… and they loose everything (99% of the time). Then they face the choices of (1) sweating again, (2) deposit (3) quit.
(1) -> they are already bored to death to have sweated 10 hours for their 25 peds, so usually it’s a NO
(2) -> after their first experience of loosing everything, most (rightfully) guess that if they deposit, they will also loose all, so not very appealing
(3) -> looks the best option and most does (someone posted the stats that 90% of noobs ended quitting)

In the end, the only one who stays are the one with the disillusion that “it’s an investment, I need to spend” or that “oh great, WoW was too cheap, now I can play a game that will cost me over 100$/month” (+ a few shrewd people who have see how to profit in the system, a.k.a. resellers, but with a very bad time/return anyway)

 

[waperboy]

I think it would be better that they bumped the TT value up a little but still have the TT value below the market price.

Say 1 or 2 ped per 1000

That way a vast majority of sweat would still be sold to other players. However a small amount would go to the TT for people who needed peds fast. Also it would be more motivational if you could see an instant worst case value of your efforts.

Another option would be to set the TT price to something like 2.5ped/1000 (still under current market price) And then cut the drop rate a little.

The increase in people TTing sweat combined with the decrease in the drop rate would put the price up a little. Even if the overall benefit to sweaters is minimal the fact is that if they feel they are gaining more value from their efforts they are likely to stay longer.

However from a mind force users point of view all these ideas are terrible.

Keep in mind that if the TT value of sweat was 1 ped per 1k sweat, that's one hundred times more than it is now. As stated earlier in this thread, it would bleed the EU economy - EU's existence depends on people putting money into the game. If sweat was 1 ped per k, 100 times as many people would just sweat instead of deposit, and the game would risk going bankrupt.

Keep it as it is

 

[davidgr1200]

The only way MA could give sweat a higher value (Note that sweat DOES have a tt value: 0.001 pec) is by charging in some other way. For example, in order to sweat you have to buy a sweat extractor which costs say 10 PED and decays in a way so that on average you would gather 1000 sweat by using one of these. This could give sweat a tt of 1 pec: 1000 sweat will give you enough tt to buy a new extractor.

 

[Zacariaz]

The "raise the value a bit, just not too much" is not too bad of an idea, but it wouldn't be a good idea anyway.
The consequense of sweat actually having a value other than the insignificant .001 pec, wold make sweating more atractive, thus flooding the marked more than it already is, thus lowering the market value substancial. A lower market value would of course be bad for the sweaters, but it would also be bad for MA as more people would tt sweat, thus pulling more money out. The consequense would the that MA would have to lower the tt valu of sweat again untill a balance is met.

In the end all this will probably mean that sweat will have a higher tt value than today, but probably very insignificant and not only that, the market value will be much lower than it used to be.

I'd say that is a bad idea.


Only this left to do is to wait for the MindForce rework so that the demand for ME an sweat will increase. but it's is a complicated relationship as people will always try to push the prices.

Some of the current attack chips are actually fairly eco, thus a little MU on the ME is ok. However, the MU on ME is always balancing on the line between uneco and normal. theres is no advantage to mindforce as long as it is this way. MA could make the attack chips more eco, but that would only make the prices raise further untill we see the same situation again. People will lose interest, demand will fall...

I'm rambling now. This happens when I don't get my sleep.

In any case, I only see only solution to the combined problem, which is to start selling ME at the tt, just like with ammo. Sweating and of course Nexus will then be removed from the game as there is no further use for it.

I bet there is a few sweaters out there rolling their eyes, but this is not only how it should be, but most likely also how it will be. If MA want to give MindForce a chance, this system doesn't work.


This of course doesn't mean that newbies would not have anything to do but walking around with their eyes on the ground in hope of finding those precious stones/fruits/dung(lol), I am quite sure that some other occupation would be made avalible for the newcommers.


Also do remember that though it is said that this game is/can be free to play or even profitable, this doesn't actually mean that MA/FPC/whatever has to provide anymeans of earning money without depositing. MA might mean that the money that one might earn would have to come from other participants, earned by providing certain services. At this time this is a complicated subject, but this might change in the future.


I may just find some change that someone has dropped while walking down the street, but that certainly doesn't mean that i should expenct to do so.

There's no such thing as a free meal and you sweaters will have to accept this.

 

[Luckycharm]

MA is brilliant in the way they implemented sweat.

Sweat has such a low TT value that you really must sell it to another person. Because of this, the money earned from sweat does not come from MA - it comes from other players.

As such, it does not cost MA any money for 'free' players. If MA gave sweat a higher TT value then MA would lose money.

What he said The game is free coz of this (if u want it to be).

 

[Az Bloodz]

What is interesting from the comment from older player here, is they have understood well that they need the noob to deposit and loose their money to fund their own loot pool. Enjoy the pyramid!

So you are suggesting that there are people profiting on TT value? That's not how it works.

 

[kyleen]

please... MA has already given u the option to sweat, its hard, boring and very frustrating and the rewards is minimal yet it is the only free activity ingame where u can actually earn some money. In the early stages,this game had no sweating so i dont see why people should complain now., it was way harder back in the days to start off as a new player and i can give u a firsthand account on that. So actually, MA has helped u new players greatly.

Seriously though, sweating is just time wasting, by saving a few bucks here and there in Real life and u will eventually have the money to deposit ingame where u can spend that sweating time on actually doing some more exciting.
For me, i like to eat these junk food and soft drinks, i figured, why not just deposit the money ingame and instead of eating so much unhealthy stuff. Well, it was a great solution for me. Fun + health. ofc, there are other options but if u really want to deposit and play the game, u will eventually find a way.

Besides, just imagine, if all the sweat bottle get 1pec TT each... I've seen a couple of threads on EF where people have 1million bottles of sweat. In a blink of an eye, they will be have 10k peds... I dont think that is quite fair is it and what if that person withdraw the money? poor MA

Thats my thought, i think ur idea was rather unthoughtful. Ur to focused on improving ur own and fellow noobs gameplay yet failed to see the larger picture of the game bankrupting ruining everything for all.

 

[Mr-Joey]

no... implement a "sweatend" again

 

[micker]

left me with no choice but other...

I chose Other.

I cannot say yes give it a TT value, because it already has a TT value.

I cannot say no dont give it a TT value, because well, it already has one.

Keep sweat the way it is.


Why shouldn't we want to change it? Because its SWEAT! It's worthless, it only has value because we need it for something. That value is defined through the sales transaction.

Selling sweat is generally a noobs first real experience with the market economy in EU. They can get ripped off and get talked into giving it away, or they can get a good deal and sell it for .4 or so. They can learn what .4 means and how to price and sell their sweat.

By interacting with other players they can learn how to properly sell and buy.

And a player who properly learns? Thats a player less likely to come on here screaming that they got scammed later on.

 

[akruz]

Well, i dont think that complaim about the low prices of sweat is all worng, but i really theink that a player that dont have patient to wait, its not a player for this game...
I liked the ideia of changing the free way to get something... or we can have cheaper ways...
but i think that the best way to make this a more dinamic economy is making the player made items more unique, all the things, what you loot, what you mine, what you craft... I have gived some ideias about it, in other posts... but well, player made items is a good solution to the market in all levels, and a healter market will let the people get in here with higer changes of stay... and knowing that if you have a good unique strategy you can get more, can give more hope to the people... Well, but all this, even if enter in the project, will be implented before Crytopia...

 

[endermigne]

This sounds a bit like a whine thread. Ironically the thread starter's name is "Sweat"...

That's an obvious "No" for reasons others have stated.

 

[Deuling]

It's been said a million times, but I'll say i anyway:

If sweat was sold at a set price, MA would lose money to the sweaters, so on and so forth. But he has a small point about non-paying players. with how money is at the moment most people can't afford to deposit. I can't. A lot of players can't get far because they can't afford to deposit and that sweating takes a while and pays little. I think, maybe, MA should give new players certain helpful items, all 0.00 peds. This will help them get started. Good idea eh? I like it. And the clothes you wear don't count!

 

[Sparhawke]

As much as I would love to see this happen as it could actually create some base value to what you do I fear that the only people who will benefit are the sweatshop botmasters who will flood the game 24/7 and kill off any chance for a real player.

The mindforce markets is already completely laughable already with the masses of sweat already on the market without a use and you want a reason for people to create more? lol

 

[Zacariaz]

The mindforce markets is already completely laughable already with the masses of sweat already on the market without a use and you want a reason for people to create more? lol

MF is a laugh isn't it?
The MF proffesion is a somewhat complicated area, so make sure to give your oppinion, idea etc.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/mindforce/146437-mindforce-problems-solutions.html