Question: How should loot work in Entropia

Darth Revan

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Ok so simple question that needs a very detailed answer...or many answers.
Essentially, I see tons of "loot is shit" or "my returns are xxx" or "MA cant code to save their lives".

So if you were to program how loot should work in entropia...how would you do it?
What would you do differently to what MA has done?
Obviously, keep in mind you would be a business and the idea is to not go broke. So making it so that everyone profits will not work. Also making it so that a chosen few profit does not work. The idea is to retain customers.

This is more to gauge how people feel that loot should work in entropia, and who knows, maybe MA might get some ideas (I doubt it). So, bring out your crazy thoughts....what should allow people to profit? how should the economy work? how should people be punished for doing things in a stupid manner...have at it and lets get a discussion going!
 

Alukat123

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Dual System, both RNG as well as loot-pool.

generally RNG, with:
general a near success would grant 66 or 90% of the tt value of the clicks cost or cost for mob killed.
unmultiplied successes as well as kill would grant 100% of the tt value of the clicks cost or cost for mob killed.
I would remove all the multipliers smaller than times 10 and up the chance for times 10 to times 40 multipliers.
The chances for all that stuff would be set to grant about 95% tt-return (desired return for loot-pool) for 1000 clicks/kills, while an additional 2% would be kept missing to leave room for very big multipliers (times 100, 200, 500 or 1000).

In addition to RNG a loot-pool mechanic to keep returns in check, i.e.:
if the player is at >100% TT-return, then multipliers, times 10-50, get reduced by a factor of 2 (10 > 5, 20 > 10 and so on) untill the return is at the desired return or lower and then the multipliers normalize.
if the player is at <85% TT-return, the multipliers, times 10-50, get increased by a factor of 2 (10 > 20 , 20 > 40 and so on) untill the return is at the desired return or higher and then the multipliers normalize.

This mechanism would be meant as a safety mechanism and the check would occur every 750-1250* clicks or kills.
*randomly choosen of this span to avoid it becoming too easy to predict

If you want to get profit, you need to sell stuff for MU ^^
 
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mastermesh

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trends...

Entropia Tracker has been around a while. If I were on the Balancing Manager's team I'd do study the hell out of that data as well as more actual date on the server end (assuming that historical type data exists - not too sure it does since some support tickets from the past lead me to believe that Mindark purges the historical data after x amount of months)... then compare that to when most amount of players were in game, and also compare it to the number of happy vs unhappy threads on ALL community forums and websites, not just this one... and not just the Planet Partner sites, but every site publicly available, whether it's a society website, entropiaplanets.com, blogs, different language community sites, etc. or whatnot... don't just look at pcf and call it the full community since it's not.. (actually compiling a list of all sites in community may be something Mindark should do sometime and make it publicly available since a lot of the issues is the separation of scattered community now vs how it used to be one there was only one planet, etc. )


as well as to studying the historical chats in game on all different chat channels... If entire societies are complaining about things all at the same time, and it's happening in multiple society chats simultaneously, and it correlates to number of skill gains different players in those societies had at the same time, there could be some sort of correlations and a variety of things to pull out of that to analyze, study, and figure out what works and does not work, etc.

All the data is there to figure out what the hell the community wants, what was 'good times' what was 'bad times' and what worked vs what did not work... and to see what really needs to happen...

Just a matter of putting the right management in place to study it and accurately use it to figure out when loot was set to do x, it caused y to happen in community relations, etc.

It's a lot bigger thing than just saying 'do this to make everyone happy.'

In general, based on the number of various failed promises, bugs, etc. and statements from Mindark and support itself it looks like their team is too small or incompetent to really handle this type of data analysis and crunching numbers and social data historically speaking...

Now as to the future... we can hope things will change to resolve that...

Sometimes the loot pool as it is seems to work fine. Other times, not so much.

In essence, if I were to program how loot works, I'd hire more data crunchers, study more things both in game and in related to the game websites, forums, etc., in the community, and ultimately assign managers to actually manage more, and in essence, get this whole cluster sorted out in some good ways.

I think Mindark's started to do some of that in some ways in recent years, but there's always a lot more that can be done... Loot pool itself isn't just the issue... A lot of the grumbling by folks complaining about the loot pool has to do with lack of content and interest in the game itself since it's a grind fest in iron missions to many... so it's all about returns... Introducing more actual story and daily, monthly, yearly rewards, along with a kick ass plot and things can increase player interest... Study how each planet's doing things...

study what's happening in the missing loot on each planet vs what that's causing the player base to do... study what different events have done and not done over time, and which ones participants were more happy about, etc. A while back there were some surveys and things... more of that type of stuff can sometimes help, but it's not the ultimate solution.. there's a lot to management... and the data, and social info is all there to study and analyze, but if it just sits in an unstudied history book no one ever looks at or does anything with it's not going to help the future much.
======================
as far as loot itself goes, I'd say it should be roughly how it is, with what seems to be small waves vs the bigger waves people grumbled about in the past, but also there should be a sort of 'progressive jackpot' going on in the background... not just in events but overall in how the system itself works.

IMHO Cyrene has the best dailies at the moment... That little maze and the missions associated with it are brilliant because it gives you a series of mini-missions to do for roughly 10 minutes a day. It's does get boring after a few weeks, once you learn the way the maze is designed... but this type of thing is something we should see more of on each planet. Similarly, cyrene has a bunch of other daily missions or weekly missions to do that give out great rewards... Epic mission chains on Cyrene are flawed as mentioned in several threads over on that forum since the 'key' to the upper levels is missing in loot quite frequently post loot 2.0 - same is going on with other planets I suspect, just not quite as blatently visible...

Most other planet's don't have that yet... Rocktropia's economy is slowing since lots of loot that is used to craft with went in to hibernation after loot 2.0, and I suspect same is happening with other planets as well.

Next Island has a bunch of broken missions and an entire content in Greece that's mostly unused and empty... If next island isn't making on servers for Mindark what other planets are paying monthly, Greece's servers should be shrunk as the other planets were imho, down to one little spot similar to the thing's size... but it likely won't happen since no one is working on NI from Post's end so Mindark probably isn't going to touch it from where it is since it'd require Mindark to actually do some work so that even more missions won't get screwed up?

Right now if a bunch of people are all on one mob it seems that that mob's loot pool is slightly higher, etc. ... sort of like a progressive jackpot island during a slot tournament... There's not much recording in the background building up that progressive that will pay out to someone at a regularly scheduled time (like a lottery).... adding in that lottery bit might help? ... BUT ONLY IF IT ACTUALLY GETS RESULTS... Don't make the same mistake you did with Arkadia's land plot, the statue sale, etc. thing - where the 'reward' was great potentially, but "that's not in game yet since we didn't take the time to think this through first' syndrome took over.

-------------
Also, as mentioned in countless other threads... crafting is beyond broken at the moment... since most of the blueprints can't be used to create things that people actually want... fixing that in a variety of ways may help (perhaps lower shrapnel returns but keep tt value same (with the no-looters gone as it is now post-loot 2.0), changing it to other items that are used in blueprints, perhaps some of which are almost non-existent now).. lowering number of items in loot pool in exchange for stackables, etc. (what's the point of crafting a gun if you can just loot one? What's the point of crafting a fap when folks are just using mission faps from Cyrene, what's the point of armor crafting when folks are just buying armor from the broker on Arkadia?... )

Back at loot 2.0 I think there was mention of making it so armors had to have skill requirements... that's not in game yet... why not? (is it another broken promise?)

Changing old blueprints to be 'better' than they were is also something that could use a rehaul... add sib to old school stuff, but be careful... for instance it's kind of annoying if something old school is like 5/10 HA now, but adjusting it could cause it to go to 0/10, depending on what skill level you are and what the requirement is (example - katsuichi determination vs adjusted katsuichi determination HA ranking on different skill levels)... in general, changes to blueprints, or adding in adjustments should increase usefulness, not decrease it... (example Damage/Pec of bukins vs adjusted bukins, etc.). ... more buffs on items, especially old school items, would be very good idea... permanent buffs, not just L or tier type temporary quick fixes, but stuff that actually increases usefulness, etc.

and, building a road map towards the future that is coherent is important... not just this 'let's throw this crap in to make a quick buck, or to add something new just because... SIB improved the game... Buffs improved the game.. Lowering costs to play helped the game... getting rid of rent helped the game... adding more content is slowly helping the game... loot 2.0 was a step in right direction for loot, as it sort of leveled the playing field, by more or less removing a lot of stuff from the loot tables and replacing it shrapnel, but now going forward the shrapnel should slowly be changed out in some cases with other stuff that will help the economy... especially on some stuff that's 'not looting' in various places (lots of reports on that over on Rocktropia's forums lately)
 
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Noorie

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I would add a different type of bonus on the players deposit.
For example 20% first deposit bonus, 10% weekly reload bonus, free craft attempts, ammo and probes.
With a reasonable cycling requirement of course.
 

GoNi

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If I had to code it, I would do it completely with pools, personal pools included.

It would be way to complex to explain it in detail.

But the core factors would be:

In worst case max loss on long run would be less than 10%
The income for the company would be a healthy 5% of whatever is spent.
Skills would matter, in different ways (loot composition) and access chance to special pools.

And:
First calculation would be the total value of a loot.
After that is calculated there would be an access to a loot table for mob/item/area, and dependend on the total value of the loot, a compilation would be calculated, where skills would give some bonus to increase chance to loot more uncomon things in that table.

The pool system combined with loot tables could generate some very weired loots, but well it would be much more fun and a lot less predictable than MAs loot code (no waves).

Adjustments would be very easy, as it would be just some numbers in the database to increase/decrease chances for specific items/resources without changing the whole code, very easy for a balancing manager.
 

valentin

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Simple MA is a company and a company's priority No 1 is to get as much profit as possible.

A company has good customers and bad customers but all customers are measured in money.

The answer is easy to answer the more money the better the customer and better benefits from the company.

:wise::wise::wise::wise::wise:
 

Svarog

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Are you asking us as players or what would we actually did being MA employees? :)

Because being MA I would surely implement all the worst nightmares from every damn loot theory. The loot would be as personal as possible, it would follow your hunting habits, going up if your activity slows down, and down once you go all in in grinding. It would be fine-tailored for your bankroll and depo/play style, trying to milk you at the rate which is best for your case. That would be my job after all.

As a player I would just want the pre-2.0 loot back. It wasn't a loot paradise, but it never could have been, with some of the bank leaking to MA and us fighting for the rest. But the loot, with all its massive swings, was readable and encouraged experimentation, instead of mindless grinding without moving from a spot in hope that the law of big numbers play in your favor.
 

GoNi

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Because being MA I would surely implement all the worst nightmares from every damn loot theory. The loot would be as personal as possible, it would follow your hunting habits, going up if your activity slows down, and down once you go all in in grinding. It would be fine-tailored for your bankroll and depo/play style, trying to milk you at the rate which is best for your case. That would be my job after all.

From a coders standpoint, this would actually be a nightmare of a job.
Insane amount of data to collect and analyze and this always up to date with every loot event.
I am sure I don´t want to code that :)
Beside that, even if I would create a code to deliver that players nightmare, I am fairly sure the servers couldn´t handle that without serious lag.
 

RobBuona

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People want a positive TT return without spending money. They don't understand that this is an RCE...apparently.
 

Mega

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Because being MA I would surely implement all the worst nightmares from every damn loot theory. The loot would be as personal as possible, it would follow your hunting habits, going up if your activity slows down, and down once you go all in in grinding. It would be fine-tailored for your bankroll and depo/play style, trying to milk you at the rate which is best for your case. That would be my job after all.



:naughty:
 

DavinFelth

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90% return would work out that if I deposit $100 in the beginning of the month then at the end of the month
I would have $90. It would vary depending on how much you depo and how much you play, but some how make it work out. I know you could say that is how it works now - you go out on a hunt and come back with 90% then you repeat so it dwindles down to zero. In my magical formula it would work out to a pay to play type model where it's almost like a monthly subscription.
I really have no idea how it would work, I just know the cost to play is too high as it is, how long my 90% lasts can be hours and not days - no matter the deposit size.
 

sostoned

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loot based for 50% on cost, 50% dpp

more lower globals, less high globals.

Bonusloot, stop that, use for globals.

We want globals without losing too much. so its needed to make the high globals/hofs lower. The high hofs are too rare to keep me goin and no globals is boring as hell.

basically what i want is an advantage with eco play and more globals actions. Not more 5 ped globals but decent ones.
 

Dan59

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In my magical formula it would work out to a pay to play type model where it's almost like a monthly subscription.

It worked like that on start.
Micro transactions were meant as way to deposit.
Game was meant as a game not a place where you earn and withdrawal.
Prices of resources and items were low with small MU or without MU at all.
No amps, no enhancers, no magic items or potions for buffs, defense, hp, loot pick ups, crit, etc
No additional expenses and cost to play.

Today you need to pay many direct and indirect fees, taxes, MU and other costs.
Like investors - be it planet partners, CLD owners, AUD owners, LA owners, other owners - all in form of additional cost to play.
Traders - their actions can me explained as god or bad but their income represent additional cost to play.
Services - specially forced ones like space transport and similar represent too additional cost to play.
MA - removing resources or introducing new resources and items , systems, changing items or non developing further without taking account on impact this changes have on game, gameplay and economy balance.
Ofc you can ignore all that and calculate your 90% return on single run but on longer period you will be paying all those expenses and more.
 

matthew

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I would introduce fixed dependable elements to loot, at least 60% of a mobs return should be known in advance and then introduce a random element on top of this.

For example, an exa young should loot a maximum of 50 "good hide". For every shot made to kill the exa 3 hides are damaged and become "damaged hide". From the remaining good hide at level 100 hunter I can loot 100% of them, at level 90, i damage a further 10%, level 80, 20% and so on.

Good hide and damaged hide would have different TT values and should make different qualities of clothing creating a market for both.

At level 100, I should be able to recover at least 60% of the cost per kill from this dependable known loot.

On top of this I might get some oils or shrapnel which drop in the current random fashion, to give a total long term average of around 95%.

A real cash economy, just like the real world, requires some long term stability which can be topped by random acts for entertainment value.

If I need hides for a crafting project i want to be able to focus my energies (or employ someone else) to get those hides in a dependable way. I need to be able to budget for the most part and in advance how much it is going to cost (at a minimum) to obtain those hides. And can therefore markup the finished items appropriately. I can not predict random events which might cause me to lose or gain profit but I should least enter a project understanding most of the variables which will define the outcome.
 

Darth Revan

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There are some interesting ideas in here.

Dual System, both RNG as well as loot-pool.
The chances for all that stuff would be set to grant about 95% tt-return (desired return for loot-pool) for 1000 clicks/kills, while an additional 2% would be kept missing to leave room for very big multipliers (times 100, 200, 500 or 1000).

So your wanting a 95% return on 1000 clicks/kills?? .... you will be out of ped just as quick as it is now, maybe even quicker....especially if you craft.


In essence, if I were to program how loot works, I'd hire more data crunchers, study more things both in game and in related to the game websites, forums, etc., in the community, and ultimately assign managers to actually manage more, and in essence, get this whole cluster sorted out in some good ways.

======================
as far as loot itself goes, I'd say it should be roughly how it is, with what seems to be small waves vs the bigger waves people grumbled about in the past, but also there should be a sort of 'progressive jackpot' going on in the background... not just in events but overall in how the system itself works.

Sorry but this post was really long and most of it was just complaining about things that haven't been fixed or needed change in this game...that's not what I was asking...we all know what needs to be fixed in this game. Granted if those things are fixed there would be less complaining about things, but loot will still be one of the major ones as this is an RCE, it wouldn't matter if this had great story content if your running out of peds at a fast rate. I have picked out the part I think is most relevant.

First part about study...we all know that is important, but who is to say MA don't do that? They also need to gather large data over long time frames to get a better idea since this game isn't based on short time frames. So they may gather data from 1,2,6,12 months and then compare how the trends are, numbers up/down overall and per month, etc, etc (include many other factors here). Then they would make a decision on how they think they should change it. Spend time coding, release a patch, and then go back to gathering data over the same time period to see if it worked out the way they wanted...oh look its over 2 1/2 years for a change....seems about the right pace of MA. Then rinse and repeat.

The second part on loot says your happy with loot 2.0?? other than the fact things are missing in loot tables...but your fine with the return %? Your fine with how it is based? :scratch2:

I would add a different type of bonus on the players deposit.
For example 20% first deposit bonus, 10% weekly reload bonus, free craft attempts, ammo and probes.
With a reasonable cycling requirement of course.

That's just a casino....if they did that they would also do the "you cannot withdraw until you cycle 40x times your deposit" part as well....think of all the threads with that :laugh::laugh:


Are you asking us as players or what would we actually did being MA employees? :)

It would be fine-tailored for your bankroll and depo/play style, trying to milk you at the rate which is best for your case. That would be my job after all.

As a player I would just want the pre-2.0 loot back. It wasn't a loot paradise, but it never could have been.

I'm asking how you think it should work to give a good balance to both sides.
If you fine-tailored to the player, that would mean a lot of manual interation. Sure you can code things like if they have played less hours then x and have spent less than y, then change return % to z, etc, but it will still need to be monitored to ensure nothing has gone wrong quite regularly. Even with a small player base that can be quite time consuming and you would need to change the % return to account for this person(s) salary as well.

Loot 1.0 had enough people complaining about it wanting change...MA changed it and now people are wanting it back....maybe they should have stayed silent in the first place??? However no matter what, there will be people complaining about loot.....you could give them a swirl every 100 kills and someone will say they are sick of seeing them. Like now, people say they don't like the high HOFs going to small mobs, but then when only big mobs had high HOFs they complained that you couldn't get them on argos like the old days.

90% return would work out that if I deposit $100 in the beginning of the month then at the end of the month. I would have $90.

Not quite sure how you expect things to go with this....I mean should you always stay at 90% of your deposits for your whole time in this game? If you deposit $100 and then you just stay at 90% of that, then there is no need for you to ever deposit again. So i'm guessing your meaning month to month? so that you only loose 90% over that whole month? Then it resets based on your current balance? or would it reset based on your overall TT value of items? Seems like it could be easily exploited depending on how its based. To have a subscription, you can just deposit $10 each month and go hunt punies...but i get that's not what you want to do. Could you elaborate more?


loot based for 50% on cost, 50% dpp.
Basically what i want is an advantage with eco play and more globals actions. Not more 5 ped globals but decent ones.

Sounds to me that you want something inbetween loot 1.0 and loot 2.0. Well i guess loot 2.0 does something similar with efficiency rating accounting for up to 7% of loot return, so you would want it to be closer to 50% dependant? That means a gun with 50% efficiency means you end up with only 75% returns overall??? no thanks.

Loot 1.0 was based on eco advantage, look how that turned out...people who invested large sums could get a consistant TT profit and those who didn't have large sums to invest lost out....or essentially gave their PEDs to these lucky few.

I would introduce fixed dependable elements to loot, at least 60% of a mobs return should be known in advance and then introduce a random element on top of this.

Good hide and damaged hide would have different TT values and should make different qualities of clothing creating a market for both.

At level 100, I should be able to recover at least 60% of the cost per kill from this dependable known loot.

On top of this I might get some oils or shrapnel which drop in the current random fashion, to give a total long term average of around 95%.

This is an interesting prospect, currently you can expect around what 80% shrapnel if not higher in most mobs?..so your saying to flip it, have majority of loot as well loot and then the filler to be shrapnel. The downside to this that mats become very common (except for a small % that will be hard to get im guessing), so if mats are common then mu is non-existant. So how would we make it so that items still have MU if they drop alot?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enjoying the responses keep them coming, maybe we can figure something out that MA haven't thought of!
 

Alukat123

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There are some interesting ideas in here.



So your wanting a 95% return on 1000 clicks/kills?? .... you will be out of ped just as quick as it is now, maybe even quicker....especially if you craft.

care to explain why i would be as quickly out of ped as now at 80-90% return? Those extra 5-15% make quite a difference and allow to break even or even get small profit with MUs rather than having constant losses.

Sounds to me that you want something inbetween loot 1.0 and loot 2.0. Well i guess loot 2.0 does something similar with efficiency rating accounting for up to 7% of loot return, so you would want it to be closer to 50% dependant? That means a gun with 50% efficiency means you end up with only 75% returns overall??? no thanks.

Loot 1.0 was based on eco advantage, look how that turned out...people who invested large sums could get a consistant TT profit and those who didn't have large sums to invest lost out....or essentially gave their PEDs to these lucky few.

imo, efficiency should be only about loot composition ^^
 

Darth Revan

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care to explain why i would be as quickly out of ped as now at 80-90% return? Those extra 5-15% make quite a difference and allow to break even or even get small profit with MUs rather than having constant losses.



imo, efficiency should be only about loot composition ^^


Yes i agree about efficiency, i dont think it should effect loot return either......something that I think MA should change.
 

Jhereg

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I think the system they have right now works pretty well tbh...
 

Alukat123

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Yes i agree about efficiency, i dont think it should effect loot return either......something that I think MA should change.

They should even do something similiar for crafting. Once you got the recommended level you do get the desired return even if the BP is only QR1.

With recommended level + QR1 you do only get residue on near successes and are able to loot BPs 3 to 2 level lower than the BP you're crafting with.
The further you get to maxed level + QR 100, the more materials you get back on near successes and the higher the level of BPs you're able to loot (+2 to +3 level of BP loot at max skill + QR 100).

Although, this way it would become impossible loot level 1 & 2 BPs with QR 100 BPs, but then it could raise the value of level 1 & 2 BPs.
Maybe only a change in chances of BP loot (higher skill + QR = higher chance for higher level BPs while reducing the chance for lower level BPs)

Also they could make maxed out skill + QR 100 gives higher chance to get full TT-value in crafted items, i.e. 340 PED BSM globals gives 340 PED BSM with a 90% chance and only 10% chance to loot 34 PED BSM + 306 PED residue/gems.
Something like this.
 

Korin Dante MDe

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Actually the loot has improved in previous few months and people are regularly getting globals in hunting which is more globals than there were few months back during last year.
 

Captain Jack

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I had better (103% TT) returns before loot 2.0, but I see 2.0 as a necessary means of leveling the playing field. Not everyone knew how (or had the bankroll) to play hyper-eco before 2.0, and consequently there were some big winners and some BIG losers. With 2.0 they basically leveled the playing field. My returns have fluxuated, and I'm still experimenting. I just finished cycling 200K ped through a weapon with horrible efficiency, and got 96% TT returns. I intend to cycle 200k more through a more economical setup and see how that goes.

But overall I don't think the problem is so much with the way the loot system works as much as it is the way the crafting system works.

A few changes I'd make?
I'd add more low-TT items (like Mayhem (L) amps, 1 PED (L) guns, etc) but make them craftable. I'd make them craftable with current resources available ingame, as well as components which require the use of hunting loots to craft them.
They have already begun this process with the ArMatrix series of weapons, and I think that is a big step in the right direction. I think the system is working better now than it has for the last few years, and I think with some tweaking they can really dial it in nicely.
In over a decade of play I have seen enough of this game to know everything comes and goes in waves, and we're always going to have people complaining on the forums because that's the kind of culture that has been built here. I am overall enthusiastic about the future of Entropia, and think it is moving in the right direction.
 

igito

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I agree more L and less UL tools and weapons is the way to go
 

Psynergy

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Ok so simple question that needs a very detailed answer...or many answers.
Essentially, I see tons of "loot is shit" or "my returns are xxx" or "MA cant code to save their lives".

So if you were to program how loot should work in entropia...how would you do it?
What would you do differently to what MA has done?
Obviously, keep in mind you would be a business and the idea is to not go broke. So making it so that everyone profits will not work. Also making it so that a chosen few profit does not work. The idea is to retain customers.

This is more to gauge how people feel that loot should work in entropia, and who knows, maybe MA might get some ideas (I doubt it). So, bring out your crazy thoughts....what should allow people to profit? how should the economy work? how should people be punished for doing things in a stupid manner...have at it and lets get a discussion going!

1) Take (L) loot out of hunting
2) Increase interplanetary resource use to boost planet economies
3) Release seasonal (L) blueprints for various categories to each planet that won't drop after that season, so we have a natural ebb and flow of resources/supplies/goods. Always something to grind for!
4) Drop more 'seasonal' UL items, where things such as UL guns and armor that drop during a season might not drop during the next one, or the next few.
5) Reduce variance and increase chance greatly of success on non-component (L) blueprints.
6) Reduce their take on crafting to one third so over the course of 3 clicks average it takes to make an item when maxed, you only pay mindark once.
7) Reduce the cost to play and loss margin in the high and mid range, as in how badly people lose on hunts in average, since it seems that everyone is getting sacked heavily at the TT now...which is a bit extreme. You leave very few if anyone left to market for you by being an Entropian Celebrity, you need to allow a new generation to rise.
8) Reduce variability on the low end, and allow us to have some hunts that are profitable at the TT and some that are a loss again, so we don't always feel robbed.
9) Make boxes lootable, and keys craftable, and 0 TT loss
10) Since they help drive the economy, reduce by 75%-90% the fees on texturing, coloring
11) Remove this stupid (L) item drive distance decay that was introduced in a bad way to RT. Just make mobs attack vehicles that fly, too.
 
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boring_player

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Good thread!

Imagine healthy economy, in which crafters pays markup to miners and hunters and then they craft limited stuff for them so crafters also can get some MU. Crafters consume hunters and miners loot and miners and hunters consume crafters loot.

There was a guy, an economist, Gregory Mankiw who was writing about 10 principles of economy. One of them was: Trade can make everyone better off. Everyone should focus on the profession they are best at and then trade each other.

Make loot fun. Let us loot low value fun items. Something that we would not expect. I am not talking about guns or armors - this should be crafted an be (L) only. No more unlimited crap.

Besides oil, shrapnel or other materials I would like to be able to loot some consumables with short term buffs, some visuals (skins, attachments), fun stuff like decorations (why almost all entropians are homeless? we need that system!). I would like to have a chance to loot a box and a key which wouldn't have a fixed 10 PED loot but something that have varying value. We stick to the anti-lootbox law.

Guns and armors could be crafted, but you could add some high end limited items with super low TT value. For instance, an amp that brings up the efficiency of my gun to 85% for couple of minutes. Let us loot something fun. Or maybe nanocubes?

But no, instead of that we get 95% of crafters who click explosives with stuff from TT. Pure gambling. Then you push more unlimited high end stuff and fill the loot pool with shrapnel moslty so nobody trade, everyone dumps their loot to TT. There is no reason to trade, markups don't exist mostly. Game is boring.
 

KokaBurra

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Devalue the PED vs USD 10x, making game more affordable to anyone. Market would get fresh new restart self atdaption and ped card would be more flexible, so instead of loosing 10$ you lose 1$. Loot should be like crafting you can go for quantity or quality. Quanitity for globs and less chance of viability and quality for smaller loots with MU%.
 

Psynergy

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Devalue the PED vs USD 10x, making game more affordable to anyone. Market would get fresh new restart self atdaption and ped card would be more flexible, so instead of loosing 10$ you lose 1$. Loot should be like crafting you can go for quantity or quality. Quanitity for globs and less chance of viability and quality for smaller loots with MU%.

That would instantly establish distrust and everyone would quit in the entire game. Game gone forever, people would show up at MA headquarters asking questions immediately. I'd book a plane flight that's for sure!

Everyone's investment would be destroyed, nobody needs an ECONOMIC RESET of their bank accounts and life savings, insanity. Ignorance and lack of caring for others than yourself demonstrated fully, and people would have deposited the same scales of currency if everything was 10%, it fixes nothing!

The problem isn't in the currency ratio, this is utter insanity, please see a doctor at once :wise: If you are complaining about not being able to afford the game it lies in currency trade ratio between your country and the games.

The problem exists in loss percentage and variability we face in all activities, it's really easy to come back so horribly in the red you want to puke, on bad hunts in the short term when you go out intending to have a bit of fun. 35% loss on a 2000 ped cycle that is gone in an hour is....well....*ahem*...how is that close to $1 an hour again? That's 50-60 an hour loss. Statistically long run, that's still like 17 lost per hour by sleepy napkin math.



And yes. Without the opportunity to trade game is boring! For everyone, we want to be able to interact with each other and not the TT so much due to virtue of everything being 0 value. Build economic value to everything we loot.
 
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KokaBurra

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That would instantly establish distrust and everyone would quit in the entire game. Game gone forever, people would show up at MA headquarters asking questions immediately. I'd book a plane flight that's for sure!

Everyone's investment would be destroyed, nobody needs an ECONOMIC RESET of their bank accounts and life savings, insanity. Ignorance and lack of caring for others than yourself demonstrated fully, and people would have deposited the same scales of currency if everything was 10%, it fixes nothing!

The problem isn't in the currency ratio, this is utter insanity, please see a doctor at once :wise: If you are complaining about not being able to afford the game it lies in currency trade ratio between your country and the games.

The problem exists in loss percentage and variability we face in all activities, it's really easy to come back so horribly in the red you want to puke, on bad hunts in the short term when you go out intending to have a bit of fun. 35% loss on a 2000 ped cycle that is gone in an hour is....well....*ahem*...how is that close to $1 an hour again? That's 50-60 an hour loss. Statistically long run, that's still like 17 lost per hour by sleepy napkin math.



And yes. Without the opportunity to trade game is boring! For everyone, we want to be able to interact with each other and not the TT so much due to virtue of everything being 0 value. Build economic value to everything we loot.

Lol ok, i was expecting that. Before i write something sorry for my rusty english.

First of all MA has to decide if they want millionare playground with few thousand players or they want regular people playground with lets say 100k+ active players. So as a costumer why would i pay 1k$/month to be avarage player. At end of the day this game is made for players not investors.

Why would you think that investements would be destroeyd? Have you heard of inflation? lol

No the problem isnt the red section, you have to see a doctor if your expecting green excel sheet longterm without 250k$ my guy. Its ok for mindark to profit and its ok that players pay for it.

I cant see point of paying 10k$ for a noob gear to keep losing in the end. I'd Rather Be Traveling

My solution was to incrase inflation by making ped cheaper vs usd. That would make MU% much more flexible and game could become more affordable for MMO players, not investors.
 
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Joat

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I would probably create a system similar to the one we have today.
What I might do is to learn playerbase how the system works in basic, so less
theories are needed, so it instead is about finding right set up.
Downside is that some might leave when they realise how it really works. :D :silly2:
 

Detritus

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I agree, the 10:1 ratio has hurt this game a lot. In most other games, a $100 depo will get you a TON of shit. In EU it's tears in the rain.

Can't have a thriving economy with no players. New player comes in: "You mean I have to invest $10k just to be a mediocre player in this game? No thanks...".
 

boring_player

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I agree, the 10:1 ratio has hurt this game a lot. In most other games, a $100 depo will get you a TON of shit. In EU it's tears in the rain.

Can't have a thriving economy with no players. New player comes in: "You mean I have to invest $10k just to be a mediocre player in this game? No thanks...".

Paying 1000 USD monthly for a game is bad. Who can afford that? People form countries in top 10 highest average wage? Probably a bit more, I guess TOP 25? Then your customers list would end on the people of Poland. Top 30 would include Estonia too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

What about less wealthy nations? I am not saying that people outside 35 wealthiest nations cannot play EU but they would struggle a bit for sure. Look how big markets you have there, China, India, Nigeria, Indonesia, Brazil.

Again, I am not saying any people there cannot afford EU but I would say 100USD/month could be a serious expense for them. Would they include Entropia on their wishlist when there are many cheaper MMO's out there?

Make EU affordable!
 
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